ilnjscb

So I am in a debate with some dummies about how KYIV is pronounced. I was there a few months ago, I heard everything from KEE-iu, KEEV, Kee'ev, Kee-YIV, KEEw, and more. But I am a stupid American, unused to the complexities of life in the Eurasian steppes.

Please weigh in if you have any real personal knowledge. Gracias.

baddog

Do you want the Ukranian pronunciation or Russian?

baddog

Ukrainians pronounce it Keev. Like it's one long syllable instead of two syllables.

ilnjscb

Functionally Americans say Kee-ev. Just like we say Brrr-lin for Berlin and Bar-seh-loan-uh for Barcelona.

I'm asking about the way the president of Ukraine says it. It's 9PM there, isn't anyone awake?

baddog

My brother lives there for several years. I pasted his response.

ilnjscb

Thanks!

O MARINA

like dis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xHN-RXQA-I

baddog

That is an American's way of saying it.

sadiedazzle

I was in Chernobyl. It is pronounced keev.....sort of. Watch the impeachment hearings and listen to the ambassadors. Their pronunciation is perfect.

just a punk

LOL, it's sounds absolutely identical both languages. The Ukrainian language is an ancient Russian mixed with some Polish words.

If you want to hear how Kiev sounds in Ukrainian, which is just a dialect of Russian language, type this in Google translate and click the "listen" button: КИЕВ

It sounds like Keeyf.

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k0nr4d

It's pronounced key-yuv in polish

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just a punk

Indeed

Russians (aka Ukrainians) say "f" instead of "v" at the end. Just like vodka "Smirnoff", which is actually "Smirnov". Or like Eastern Russians say "Moskva" and eastern Russians who live in Moscow say "Maskva".

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Marshal

Feel free to use the Listen function of Google Translate.

Ukrainian: https://translate.google.com/#view=h...B8%D1%97%D0%B2
vs
Russian: https://translate.google.com/#view=h...B8%D0%B5%D0%B2
vs
English: https://translate.google.com/#view=h...l=en&text=Kiev

Also, Wikipedia has it the way it's pronounced in Ukraine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U...1%97%D0%B2.ogg

just a punk

Do you understand that nobody in Kiev says it the "Ukrainian" way? Do you understand that people in Kiev speak Russian w/o any accent like they are living in Moscow?

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ilnjscb

Thanks for your somewhat condescending post. None of those are helpful, and all were referenced before asking this.

If you are

1. Ukrainian

then please type out or use IPA.

ilnjscb

This why I am asking. I was there. I have spent time there. I ate chicken kiev there. You can't read it in a book.

In Boston, some people really do say "pahk de cah" with the ah sound like "can" for park the car, which most Americans say "park the car" but the above can also be read as the way some English say it, with the ah as "charge" but unvoiced "r".

We're not idiots here people, this is beyond wikipedia. We are asking how native Ukrainians, regardless of their history, ethnicity, linguistic descent, patrimony, or tribe, consider the standard way to say KYIV.

baddog

The reason I asked which pronunciation is because before I contacted my brother I went to Google where it was suggested there were different pronunciations.

When I talked to my brother he said, "Well, the Russian way of spelling it is different from Ukrainian, but that's because the alphabet is slightly different. But it sounds the same to me whether someone is speaking Russian or Ukrainian. They might be able to tell a difference in pronunciation, but I can't."

just a punk

Just a few words about "history, ethnicity, linguistic descent, patrimony, or tribe". Kiev is the first capital city of Russia. As we say: Kiev is a mother of Russian cities. After that the capital has moved to Moscow, then to St. Petersburg, then to Moscow again, but Kiev was the first one. So native language there is Russian. People in Kiev speak Russian w/o accent while people from Eastern Ukraine (e.g. Donbass) speak with a specific accent.

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sadiedazzle

The English call Houston Hooston. Hoosten, they gotta problem.

baddog

hue stun

ilnjscb

and George W said new-cyoo-ler for nuclear. So maybe the president isn't the best example, although Zelensky seems smart

ilnjscb

I'll look that up, regardless, they're a separate nation now, which you Russians, as much as I love you, must accept. New York was once the capital of America, but you don't see us swanking around making laws.

just a punk

They are a separate country and I accept it of course. But they are not a separate ethnic group. They are Russians. Let's imagine that Siberia separates from the Russian Federation too and becomes an independent country. Will this mean that all Siberians are not Russians anymore and they are a separate nation? Course not. A new country - yes, but a new nation or ethnicity - no.

To sum it up. The Ukraine is a synthetic Russian country. The people who live there are ethnic Russians and they are speak Russian because its their native language (if you've been to Kiev you should know it). However they are not a part of Russian Federation anymore. I do respect their decision, but I can't consider them as a different nation anyway.

Look the post above made by O MARINA. She's a Canadian citizen, who was born and grown up in Odessa (former Soviet Union and now the Ukraine). So who she ethnically is? Which nation she belongs to?

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ilnjscb

Yes, but maybe as an American I only see a certain side. For instance the hotel where I like to stay when I'm there has only one set of letters, then English, and a similar setup on the menu of the little restaurant downstairs. Certainly they're Cyrillic letters, but what the hell do I know if they're Russian or Ukrainian? I'll look more closely next time.

just a punk

They are in Russian of course, because it's the most understandable language of the former Soviet Union in the world. Nobody speaks the ancient Russian (known as the Ukrainian language) anywhere, including the Ukraine (the Ukrainian president prefers to speak Russian). Yes, they officially try to enforce it, but they always fail. I don't want to say that ancient Russian is bad. Actually it sounds very melodic (as a Russian I do understand about 90% of the Ukrainian language):



But it's just outdated for centuries and nobody on planet Earth speaks it. According to Wikipedia Russian is 12th most spoken language even in the USA.

A former United States National Security Advisor:



Milla Jovovich (was born in Kiev):



And others:






As you can see, nobody of them speak ancient Russian (Ukrainian). They speak the modern Russian instead.

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just a punk

Just a small challenge. I've posted a song in Ukrainian right above. Here is is the same song in Russian - will you find a difference? ;)



I swill post the Ukrainian version yet again here just to make it easier for you to compare. This the same song is being singed in Ukrainian by a native Russian youtuber:



Can you non-Russians find any difference in Russian and Ukrainian versions?

The thing I want to explain is that Russians and Ukrainians are same nation. The Ukrainian language is an ancient Russian and Kiev is a first Russian capital (it has never been Ukrainian). As a Russian I have to admit that the Ukraine is in fact more Russian than Russia. Sounds strange but it's true. They keep the ancient language while we have mixed it with the Western European words. So the modern Russian culture is more Western European (French, German and English), while the Ukraine still keeps the ancient Russian culture.

For example. Ocotober in Russian sounds like Oktiabr. In Ukrainian it sounds like Zhovten. November in Russian sounds like Noyabr. In Ukrainian it sounds like Listopad. May in Russian sounds like May. In Ukrainian it sounds like Traven. So their language keeps the ancient Russian words, while the modern Russian uses Western European words.

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NatalieMojoHost

It's only logical that when you adopt a spelling of a city name, you take it from the language that's the national language of that country. In Russian, which was an official language in the country for a while, the city is named Kiev, however, the Ukrainians call it it Kyiv, so I'm siding with the second. This isn't very easy for a westerner to pronounce usually because you have no letter and no such vowel sound, so you're the best bet is: K-(like you've been jabbed in the stomach)-eev

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just a punk

Who exactly say this in the Ukraine? In Kiev or in Donbass? The Kiev people speak Russian without any accent just like Moscow people. The Eastern Ukrainians speak Russian very different.

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Oracle Porn

I've been here for a little while, most people pronounce it "Key-yev"...

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just a punk

Maybe in Belorussia. They say "f" at the and. Not "v".

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redwhiteandblue

People from Kiev itself I guess?



Many things are written in Ukrainian in Kiev and other places instead of Russian, restaurant menus, shop signs, etc. The further west you go the more Ukrainian is spoken. Maybe it would be better to get an opinion from a Ukrainian on this thread instead of a Russian.

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baddog

My brother has lived there for years and says "v"

ilnjscb

This is the difficult part. I hear the same two ways and more. Oracle, if you watch Zelensky's show, what does he say?

HairyChick

Not just Boston. Massachusetts people have various accents but we don’t pronounce our r. Pahk the cah is normal! Winter is wintah.

I’m surrounded by people from Fall River and they usually use Bahstahn accents with Portuguese accents. You hear a mixture of accents and it’s confusing. I say Fall River but most pronounce it Fall Reeve. New Bedford is pronounced NewBeffa by most immigrants.

Worcester is mispronounced by almost everyone. Woostah is correct but you’ll hear
Werchester and Woresistah too.

This area has Indian names and cities and towns like Mattapoisett and Acushnet seem easy to pronounce but it’s comical to listen to people.

Kiev was said with one syllable by my Russian great-grandmother. Kyev was her way. Monday I see my Russian doctor with a thick accent and I’ll ask him his pronunciation of it. I think he’s from Belarus and my people are from Pinsk and Minsk.

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just a punk

Yep. Ask them. There was a guy Sid70 from the Ukraine. He hates Russia as a country. But he never speaks Ukrainian here. He speaks only Russian for some reason. BTW, at youtr picture it's written in a mad mix of languages. "I" is written in English. In Ukrainian (and in Russian) there must be "Я". So your picture is a bit... stupid.

If Sid70 is not a good example, let's listen to the Ukrainian president.



Which language does he speak if it's not an official public speech? Actually he often switches to Russian even when he speaks officially like a president of the independent Ukraine. Yes, he actually uses some Ukrainian words there but he does it to mock the Ukrainian politicians. This video says a lot IMHO.

By the way. Zelensky has became so popular in the Ukraine after TV series "Servant of The People". Guess which language was used there? No? Here you go then: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWx...SgCIK6SyzDgirQ

Actually in this TV show you can see how exactly it works. When a president takes an oath, he speaks Ukrainian. When official state news hosts speak on camera they speak it in Ukrainian, because this language is enforced. But when they communicate to each other, they always use the modern Russian. The ancient Russian known as Ukrainian may sound very melodic but it is too outdated to be used for casual daily communications.

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redwhiteandblue

It's not stupid, it's how Ukrainians write the name of their capital city in English. We call it "Kiev", they call it "Kyiv". In Ukrainian it is written "Киів". Note the "i" which you do not have in the Russian cyrillic alphabet but exists in the Ukrainian one. No letter "я" needed.

I'm not disputing that most Ukrainians speak in Russian but it's wrong to say that Ukrainian is not used. I've met Ukrainians who only speak Russian and don't know Ukrainian, and I've met ones who believe that Ukrainian should be spoken first before Russian. It's one thing I've learned, you don't talk politics with Ukrainians until you really know them!

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klinton

I lived there around year (in Ukraine in various places, not the capital Kiev).
To put it simple - it is a bilingual country.
There are regions where Russian is spoken and written more and regions where Ukrainian is spoken and written more. But I would say that both sides understand both Russian and Ukrainian. To the extent that they may communicate with each other without problems.
Ukrainians are eastern Slavs like Russians, but it doesnt mean that they are Russian. Also, lets define here "Ukrainians", because this one will be tricky. Ukraine is kind of diverse country.
People from Donbass are different than ppl from Lviv, the latter are different than people from Rakhiv, which are different than people from Berehove, Bilhorod, Kamianets Podolsky, Chernivtsi, Odessa, Kiev etc.
I would say that the "Ukrainians" that are like "Russians" live mostly on the east, like Kharkhiv etc.

Also, as from "Russians" from Siberia, as far as I know, there are various local tribes that live there - among white Russians - that are as far from Russians as Chinese. Of course, both Russians and Chinese have one thing in common - they belong to Asia, not Europe :P:P

just a punk

Wrong. "Я" in Ukrainian means "Я". There is no English "I". The Ukrainian language is an ancient Russian and it has no relation to the British one. It's a Slavic language and there is no "I" and other shit like that.

Actually they are. The whole Ukraine is a part of Russian Empire and some Polish territories joined to it by Stalin. The central city of the Ukraine was a center of Russia many censures earlier.

This is the modern Ukraine:



Which exactly part of it is not Russian or an annexed territory taken by Stalin from Poland? It's a synthetic territory made by Russian czars and Soviet dictators.

What the most famous Ukrainian guy Taras Bulba say when Polish barbarians burned him alive? Ah?

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klinton

No idea. But I think he shouted loudly, much louder than millions of Ukrainians that didnt even have a power to shout, killed by the USSR on purpose by its "hunger plan" in 1930s.

Or probably his shout was just as loud as the shout of the Polish officers killed in Katyn by the Russian/Mongolian hordes of Stalin and NKVD.
yeah, Katyn, not Khatyn.

ilnjscb

Massachusetts (<- spelled that from memory, btw, very proud) is so funny with its accents. I actually had a foreign cab driver try to say he had no place to "pahk de cah" at night with an either pakistan or indian accent... It came out pay-kuh dih cay! Meanwhile whenever I go there and I'm told to park somewhere, I always goad them to say it, "now what should I do? I should what now? Park the what?" I lived in Boston for a while, it's truly a great city.

ilnjscb

Ok then, does he say KYIV in this video? If so how does he say it?

just a punk

They were killed by the Georgian man Stalin and by the Ukrainian (yes, Eastern Russian) guy Vlas Chubar. Those two men are responsible of the Russian Golodomor. I have no deia why the Ukraine considers it as a personal genocide.

Over 3 millions of Ukrainians have died. Over 3 millions of central Russians have died. Over 1 millions of Kazakhs have died. Over 5.42% of Soviet Union people have died. So what? What do you want to say with you post? Why don't you consider Russia as the most affected nation? Only the Georgian Republic has not suffered. How come?

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just a punk

He says it just like I say. Here is his monologue "Kiev is a mother of Russian cities" (yes, he speaks the modern Russian language in his stand ups):



Skip it at 0:38 mark and listen how a native Ukrainian guy from Kiev (the president of the country BTW) says "KIEV". He clearly says "Keeyf" with an "F" at the end. Any questions?

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klinton

greetings from southern Georgia

just a punk

Говно. Вылеей в раковину. Лучший коньяк делают в Армении. Он куда лучше всяких французских xo. Вот реально.

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klinton

ilnjscb

I have to say that's the strongest we've seen yet, in terms of proof. He clearly says Kee'eef, which explains a lot. He is lengthening the word for emphasis, which explains why Americans hear "Keef" when the city name is being said quickly. The tiny pause between the two syllables disappears when the name is spoken casually. Yet if a native colleague is asked about it, they might speak emphatically to the listener and say "KEE'iEEFF" which might be spelled "Key-iev"

Though there may be many ways to say it, and hear it, Zelensky says "Kee'eef" and that is what I'd vote for, as a non-native.

PR_Glen

When i first read you saying that i thought you were full of shit. but going back in my mind and remembering pronunciations a little closer it really is annunciated with an f by any Russians I have spoken with or heard, but being a westerner my mind probably hears v instead. The distinction between the two is almost nothing, also why your language doesn't differentiate the two specifically with the alphabet, which is most likely why you are only hearing an F sound yourself. I think it stems back from the Soviet days. Nobody in the west would pronounce it Sofiet Union. The V is the most prominent consonant in that word. So we take that V and use it for anything else where you would use the "B" or what you would use for an F sound. B is also used as a v sound in spanish so there is also that distinction.

So essientially we can all be right here and are pretty much arguing semantics.

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ilnjscb

German does that too, a lot of languages do. Vom Himmel hoch, da komm ich her is Fom to US speakers

just a punk

I have no idea Canadians say it. I just quoted a native Ukrainian guy from Kiev - Zelensky. As about my post which you have quoted above, it's not really correct. I meant that Belorussians say "КЫеВ" (I have no idea how will you translate it to Canadian), while the Ukrainians from Kiev say it a Russian way. The say "КИИФ". Maybe because they are... ethical Russians?

And stop all these talks about the Ukraine as a different nation. For many centuries it was called Malorossia (Rossia means Russia in Russian) - it literally translates as a small Russia. Belorussia is also a Russian word. It means "White Russia". The Moscow Russia was called the Great Russia. So all those nations are Russian. They are different countries, but the people who live there are the same. They may hate each other, but genetically and ethnically the are the same people.

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