Is the porn industry growing or shrinking over the last 5 years?

The price of a professionally shot solo girl custom scene is usually $700-$1000 in EU.
B/G can easily be $1200 or more depending on the model and location.

If the paysite owners shoot their own content, the costs for them drop a bit, but not really that much. Models usually charge 200-300€ per solo scene, then there is the cost of apartment, agency fee, makeup and travel expenses.

Most of the well known paysites definitely can afford paying those $700+ per exclusive scene and that is just for solo.

And yes, what this girl earns for one of her solo videos on PH is a bit higher than what models get for one solo girl shoot, yes... but...

But not every girl is determined, patient and creative enough to be this successful, to keep shooting new original stuff, and that is why pornstars still film porn with producers - they are lazy and need someone to tell them what to do. Creativity, if the model has some, is work too. If a model does 3 shoots per week, that is most likely more than 4,000€ monthly for her with no need to be creative and care about anything.

This is not going to harm porn producers. Producing good content takes much more than a hot girl.

Definitely agreed. Plenty to go around for everyone, really.

The discussion on how much an amateur model makes has been going on for the 10+ years I have been in this Industry. While times and business strategies have changed some things remain the same:

How much a girl model can make depends greatly on how hard she works, how much content she produces, and how smart/focused she is on monetizing that content.

Is 100K a year reasonable? Yes. $200,000+ a year? Only for a select few. Most can probably earn 40-50k a year, which is a decent living in most places not named New York or San Francisco. LOL

Correct.. that's why I say it takes much more than just a hot girl. It's like running a solo girl paysite with a model - most girls quit when they realize it requires work and dedication.

If you were anything, you'd learn to converse without insults. That you can't, and that you can't produce any proof of your claims, argues that you posses a juvenile mind and mindset.
Stop being a child and accept that in the real world, you sometimes have to justify your claims, even to a skeptical audience. Message: be a man and provide some stats. If you do, I'll accept them. If you just keep lobbing inept and ineffective insults, it will prove that you have nothing.

This one is a professional model so that would answer why she has so many views. The question here is, if she can earn that good money on PH, why has she only uploaded 14 videos in 9 months and why she keeps shooting porn with producers instead? ..

Can't and won't are two very different things. I don't have to justify anything to you. You my wife? Accountant? Lawyer? IRS? Didn't think so.

I mean, you can just go try to buy pops and bid for first impression in the US on PornHub and find out for yourself.

But you're not relevant in today's market, are you? Because even if you were a program owner on the production side, you'd hopefully be smart enough to have someone working for you who at least kept tabs on stuff like this if you didn't personally.

There's a whole, massive world making very serious amounts of money outside of Porn Valley. It's interesting to me that the content shooters I know who are relevant today even know this stuff... I mean, it just takes striking up a conversation with any of the models who do it after finding their self-submitted stuff on PornHub or similar.. takes a whole 5 minutes.

I did start it with the intention of starting a discussion. Sadly others prefer to argue and I can't allow bullshit from them to dominate.

Not only porn stars but sites that are now trying to get out and sell their content would be uploading it to PH and making millions. If a girl can make so much from her work how much can sites make?

Study the threads trevesty has started, does this guy look like someone with inside knowledge of what porn stars make?

It takes more than hardwork for a model to make $100,000 a year.

It takes looks and personality to have the appeal to 100,000s of men who will keep coming back to see just her. And as we all know men looking for porn are a fickle bunch. We made a lot of money searching for new girls because of that.

But then what do I know about models after 30 years shooting them and selling their content?

Because professional studios pay more even after their expenses, Which makes trevesty show how little he knows how the business works. All he knows is what's in the threads he started.

this is abosluteley correct - nobody said that all amateurs are making millions.
there are also smart and dumb ones.

but the point is, that there are many of them and even the dumb ones take a part of the cake. adding all dumb and smart ones together you will end up on a much bigger cake shared by much more people.

so the topic here is:

"did the porn INDUSTRY growing or shrinking over the past 5 years" it is definately a growing

if the question would be "did individuals IN this industry see a grow or a shrink" the answer would be - yes, a lot are shrinking and some are growing a lot.

if you just take the good old pareto principe of 20/80 and you have only 1000 competitors than you would have 200 winners and 800 losers.
if you have 50.000 in the same game you would have 40.000 losers that are believing that the business is dead and 10.000 winners that will not talk about it.

but if you count the second number together you will end up at a much much bigger cake and THIS is called THE INDUSTRY.

paul´s correct question should be:

did MY WAY shrink or grow over the past 5 years the answer would be definately: IT IS DEAD !

but i don´t know why he thinks that his way is THE INDUSTRY.

hey old clown. YOU STARTED THIS thread.
did you forget that already ?

Aren't 'revenge porn' laws impacting upon the amount of amateur porn being uploaded?

That so many top sponsors are continuing to close or just maintain legacy sites suggests it's continuing to shrink. 'New' avenues such as VR were profitable for a little while but then slumped.

Having said that, I get sales from places like Indonesia and even Africa these days. Even back in the good old days of 2003 or so, 99% of sales came from the US, Canada, Western Europe and Aus/NZ.

All the threads I've started have been to grow business in the past 5-6 years. You extra special and I don't mean that as a compliment.

What "top sponsors" are closing? "Top" 10 years ago doesn't mean "top" today.

ya I gave up on talking to him. But while you were arguing Ms. White went from 111 mil to 112 mil and is up for 3 or 4 pornhub awards.

Yup, I'd rather interact with a hot 24 yo on twitter rather than a senile old man here.

We shoot professional productions in our studios and are doing well....Lesbian sub dom movies.

Why start a discussion if you have no idea of the current state of the industry and do not want to believe anything people say that do actually have a lot of knowledge of today's industry. It makes no sense. You think everyone that does not agree with you is lying or making things up.

The answer to your thread is Growing, but the ONLY reason you started this thread because you were hoping people would say Shrinking, which is obviously not the case...

You also have girls who sell snap chat memberships and videos and maybe a little hooking. Also most if they are making 50k are happy as clams I would think. If you enjoy, it working in the sex/adult industry beats working as a waitress or at a fast food place or Starbucks. Also they control the content and they do it on their terms. They make the rules. That’s got to beat shooting for someone else. Think about it ginger Lynn she made vivid and now she has to still shoot because she doesn’t make a dime off of her old content. A girl who is smart the content she shoots for herself can pay dividends for a long long time. And if she decides no more she can pull it all down.

Here's my take on the industry.

Most of the planet can't afford to buy porn, leaving people in N. America, Europe, Australia and Japan as our markets. Lately China has come online so a new market but most Chinese can't afford porn.

All these countries had porn long before the internet, if not hardcore then softcore would suffice. A meat eater doesn't give up eating meat because only chicken is sold. So after offline buyers had converted to online buyers the increases in sales slowed down dramatically. Same with cam buyers, before cams most bought recorded porn. I predicted this 15 years ago.

What I didn't predict and only JT who started the first porn tube knew was tubes would change the industry by giving away free what we once sold. Ratios prove that.

The steady decline financially of the industry is obvious with all the small to medium companies closing, the large companies complaining about their movies being pirated because if free increased instead of reduced their bottom line they wouldn't care.

A little more in depth than just saying I know nothing and the industry is growing not shrinking. If anyone's income, the only accounts they have access to, it's because they've become better at what they do and picking up sales that use to go elsewhere. Until people do the accounts of Mindgeek to Pornnerd and comapre them to 6 years ago they're guessing, so what is their guesses based on? I've given my thoughts without insulting anyone.

No one is saying girls like webmasters have changed the way they work. Back in the day models were earning a lot more than $50k.

Do you know the turn over of the top 10?

So what if they're also shrinking or are you saying getting their movies for free doesn't effect sales.

Yes but they had no control, now they do. Also the content they make for themselves pays them for a long time. Like the content you shot still pays you.

So show us what you do that makes you so knowledgeable and given inside info on models earnings.

I absolutely agree that it's better for a model to work for herself. That's why back in the good times there were 1,000s of girls doing that with there own solo girl sites.

Models have had to change the way they work because so few scenes are shot compared with 2006.

We know tubes convert terrible compared to TGPs, so where are all the new buyers coming from?

In the last 6 years the growth has been from mobile phones. Is that people who never surfed and bought porn before or people who want to rub out a quick one in the toilet and is that to free site or a site they already paid for?

Of course in 2006 that wasnt the case it was much more expensive to shoot and you didnt have things like snapchat. The bar to shoot something half way decent has gone down dramatically as far as cost.

Excellent post (and not because you agreed with me lol).

The Industry IS growing as more and more people come online each year However, as has been said a THOUSAND TIMES: where the money is going has shifted from where it was going 10+ years ago. But the overall SIZE of the porn pie is growing.

Hehe - pornpie.

nah, you just troll

That and all the others claiming the industry has changed doesn't indicate growth or shrinkage. It only proves Tubes have converted a massive number of buyers into free loaders, put the strain on paysites, forced everyone to change and led to a shrinkage financially in the industry.

The idea that one can shoot a movie better or worse because of the camera is absurd. The skills that I, Dean Capture, Buttman and have many more have do make a difference.

Where are the people coming from who are joining the online community and where, what and how much are they buying?

Agree that money has shifted, no longer is recorded porn providing a huge chunk of our income. But Tubes can't survive without 100s of millions of Western customers to buy from ads. These people used to buy paysite porn, Conversion and Click ratios are no way as good as they would be without Tubes.

We all know in the last 6 years we've lost 100s of sponsors and increasingly sponsors not paying. So all you are showing is a change in the industry as studios are failing or being squeezed, more amateur is being shot to replace them, girls are now shooting themselves, cams are increasingly done by girls from their homes and not studios, This shows an adapt or die and doesn't show increase or shrinkage.

My weener gets smaller each year I vote shrinking.

Here's an interesting subject. https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-b...porn-tube.html

Where are they getting the content, advertising and paying surfers to fund the operation?

Or is this an indication of the market?

"That being said, i run my own tube, and 10 years ago it converted 1:200 with gfrevenge/watchmygf....now it converts 1:700"

With everyone on the bandwagon does it make it better or worse?

if it is converting now 1:700 its time to promote something that makes more profit.
it is THAT simple

and did you ever think on the fact that a tube with RETURNING CUSTOMERS
can not convert same over the time with the same product?

these are fucking BASICS in knowledge about advertising.
when someone does not know this basics it is HIS fault and not the markets fault.

Yup.

Also, it may be 1:700, but did traffic go up by a large amount? Maybe that 1:700 today is still more money than the 1:200 a few years ago.

But yeah, I'd have rotated that out a longgggg time ago.

Just to be clear with some facts in thsi thread

Porn empire MindGeek profit drops to $7.9 million

Profits at Luxembourg-based MindGeek, which controls a vast global empire of porn websites, dropped by more than 70% to $7.9 million in 2017, according to its latest set of public accounts.

https://luxtimes.lu/economics/36538-...to-7-9-million

Now we really all know that you just troll - putting yourself on the same level as Dean Capture... lol

Especially considering that most of your stuff was shot by Eva or cheap hired assistants.

Well here's proof the porn industry has shrunk. Don't tell us a change in the way the business works replaces the huge profits recorded porn use to make.

Again you expose your lack of knowledge of what makes a good pornographer.

Tell us the skills I refer to.

https://luxtimes.lu/economics/36538-...to-7-9-million

Has anyone got the full article?

looooool - the proof - hahahaha - yes the proof that you are a complete fool.


you have no fucking clue how an international company works as you never had this problem to pay taxes with your small income.

mindgeek is just one part of a group of holding that are based in many different countries.

in any kind of holding there is nothing more unwanted than profits.
out of that, luxembourg is not that taxheaven anymore because of the EU regulations - there are much better ways to pay less tax.

here is another article that explains you how this game is working:
this 460 million is NOT the revenue of the group. this is what wents to Luxembourg AFTER the operation costs of the local companies and holdings.

but ohhh - the make a lost - how comes ?

it comes because the mindgeek owners gave the capital as a loan. it is not company capital.

and the interest paid on this loan are costs.
and costs prevent to make profit.
no profit - no tax !!!

if you're already talking about going peeing with the big dogs then you should at least be able to lift your leg as high as they do.

you have such a zero idea that you should only keep your mouth shut when people are talking who have a clue how the game works

Did you guys figure out yet if this industry is growing or shrinking? Asking for a buddy...

it's not shrinking.. Paul just wishes it was cause it would help his ego.

Meanwhile, my fav pornhub model won an award at the pornhub awards



and she is halfway to 113 mill views 112.5 mill views

Hard one to answer.

Are there more sponsors, less sponsors paying out, more or less affiliates, designers and the other people who used to make a living in this industry, etc?

Are more people using porn tubes as a source of their porn enjoyment, are clicks getting better at converting or harder?

We do know more tubes are opening and this is forcing a shift in the way people make their living. So is any change seeing an increase or decrease over all, not just individual people or companies?

What I know for sure is the good old days of 20 years ago are over. When porn shops turned over $1 million or more every year in just the location the served, cable companies paid up to $100,000 for a movie, hotels another big chunk, magazines were a gold mine, phone sex was another gold mine.

Now with so much free porn no one has to pay and we all know that effects sales very badly. Big companies are opening paid for streaming TV, films, big sporting events are paid for, no one is opening free TV supported by advertisers.

I know so many girls making more than $100k a year on onlyfans and very easily too

aha - how comes that you can not answer it any more ?

forget this fuck about "sponsors" this is childish. nobody ever sponsored anything except
the advertising material. to call this "sponsorship" is insane.

and what have the number of affiliates to do with that?
it is always number X multiplicated with number Y what makes the result.

affiliates today are mainly not webmasters. they do not have sites and they can promote everything at any time.there are media buying companies spending 1 million per month in adult traffic but they still spend 3 million per month on mainstream sites and 5 years ago the spend 2 million ONLY on mainstream sites.

and with "other people who make a living in this industry" you have the same situation.
there are BIG hosters that ONLY work with adult but the majority of hosters works for adult and mainstream.

you should give up this idea that porn is just for selling porn and work with people that do nothing else than porn. this market was starting to extend already when you still was in the biz - but you did not even realize it.

as we have seen here you do not even know how a conversion is measured.
so stop playing with numbers that you do not understand.

and you think they open because they are bored?
they open because it is a market. but for sure the market can not grow by setting up more tubes - same as membership sites would not grow when they get more competition.

to talk about a market you should first learn what the word means.

and paid 200.000 only for rent in this location. and btw. a million revenue for a shop is
quite little.

if you can show me that a cable company EVER paid 100.000 for one of your movies I will apologize and you can call me stupid til the end of your days.

hotels are still here - magazines are outdated because of the internet (not only in porn)
and phone sex is the very best example to show that you contradict yourself.
there are no phone sex tubes. phones sex is a human service that can not even be
copied. so WHY do you think free videos killed their biz?
if that would be the case why did it not kill the cam biz?

you can not compare a time when there was no internet with a time when the internet is the number one worldwide media.

there are just a few big players worldwide in the pay-tv business because it's just not big enough to feed many people. the global pay-tv market is currently worth 68 billion dollars in sales. in contrast, the global advertising revenue in free tv is 180 billion dollars.

what you also forget is that 90% of these pay-tv channels are based on internet technology and that even a TV can now replace the computer.

but last not least you have to understand that all this pay-tv providers would not even exist if they would not have the option to advertise.
at the end of the day this companies live from the high number of users they have.
to build up such a userbase is very expensive and this money all goes into the advertising industry.

netflix i.e is til today not profitable but they have now such a high number of users, that they think about changing the model from paid to ad-financed

https://variety.com/2019/digital/new...rs-1203255668/

your problem is that you are neither a businessman nor do you know about economic connections. you judge things as you see them and not as they are.

that's exactly why people like you only earn money when it's easy and others earn much more money when it gets complicated.

business is subject to the laws of eating and being eaten. people with your qualities are unfortunately only good as food.

but somehow that's also the reason that kept me in the biz for 23 years, because the proportion of stupid ones is still high enough to earn more and easier money with some good ideas and concepts than in any other biz.

that´s a quite nice concept and i am pretty sure it works.