News Paypal: Upcoming User Agreement Refund Policy Change

[RyuLion]

Woah, ok, more $ for them!

Earlier this year, we notified you that we were updating our User Agreement to change our refund policy. We want to let you know that the policy change is going into effect beginning on October 11, 2019.

In line with industry practice and according to our updated policy, we will not charge a fee to process refunds, but the fees from the original transaction will not be returned. This policy will not apply to duplicate transactions, voids and most disputed transactions. You can review the PayPal User Agreement for more information on our return policies.

We only adjust our policies when we are confident the changes are fair and aligned with the value that our services provide to your business.

PayPal brings you more than just payment processing – your business has access to our platform’s full suite of tools, products and support built to scale with you, such as customized invoicing to help you get paid sooner, access to business loans, world class fraud monitoring, seller protection for eligible transactions, and business services designed to simplify your day-to-day operations.

[k0nr4d]

We stopped using them some time ago, they have zero anti-fraud and always fuck the seller in a dispute regardless of how much proof you provide.

[jscott]

policies? no thanks
rape fees? no thanks
permission to spend my own money? nope, no thanks
paypal declining volume imminent

[Klen]

I using paypal only for payments and as temporal solution.

[pornguy]

Stopped using them the day they took money out of my account because some scum bag did not want to pay for services we proved he used.

[~Evilin~]

dont like Paypal, they freezed my friend's account - he JUST tried to change his account to a Business.

[jscott]

I tried paying a guy for adverts last month, Paypal said his acct cant receive payment and our deal fell through.

Between regulation, power, and profit, the biz model of Paypal is heading towards obsoletion.

[k0nr4d]

Stopped using them the day they took money out of my account because some scum bag did not want to pay for services we proved he used.

$1800 dispute (mainstream rando, no one from here), over 6 months past transaction date. We provided proof we did the work, the client took delivery of it, and the client was happy with it. They still refunded the money. There were other similar times too but that one sticks out most. I didn't send them the $1800, they sent it to a collections agency whom I told to fuck off and eventually they eventually wrote it off. Paypal stole enough from us already...

The fact is, who the hell uses paypal as paypal anymore anyways? Most businesses use it as a card processor if anything, and I was paying like 10% or something after their shitty forced currency exchange.

[CaptainHowdy]

I'm totally unconvinced about using Paypal, but most of the times I have no choice . . .

[CurrentlySober]

Many many years ago, I signed up for a paypal account to send child support money back to the UK. The only email address I had at the time was my wifes site. I send a successful payment twice, then got my account shut down because apparently, I was 'using it for adult services'...

I only ever made 2 payments with that account - Both to my child's mother in the UK. The account was not used for ANYTHING else...

So, Yes, adult in so far as I was paying money for my son like a good dutiful father should, but not adult in the least as in 'tits and ass'... Not only did they freeze my account, they also kept a few hundred dollars that I had loaded up to send to save me having to keep loading it up all the time !

That was back in about 2002 and I never saw that money again !

[ilnjscb]

Complete scumbags - can't wait til they get disrupted and disappear

[Sly]

We stopped using them some time ago, they have zero anti-fraud and always fuck the seller in a dispute regardless of how much proof you provide.

They are also too expensive. They may be a good solution for a startup or somebody just toying around as a hobby, but once you need to start running serious money, they are a total joke.

[Diomed]

Anybody have s complete list of big name mainstream alternatives?

I know there is quite a few that have cropped up in the past few years. It's nice to see some new options for buyers outside of PayPal/eBay.

I have a little passion project on etsy that I'm migrating to a dedicated site and I'm debating whether or not to go with something ready made like shopify or semi custom. The more flexibility in payments the better.

I'm not overly fond of the fact that PayPal comprises a large percentage of sales. More options the better.

[HairyChick]

Today I’m dealing with their legal reps regarding a transaction they reversed after finding in my favor. They will not let me file another grievance in the Resolutions Center so I’m forced to the legal route. My bank is involved as well and I think this will take a while.

They know they’re a monopoly and now change rules that pay them to return money. Other companies have tried to compete but none stuck it out.

They dumped adult and said the chargebacks and fraud were the reason. But if refunds won’t cost them anything, then adult should be allowed back in the game.

[manilaagent]

We got funds in my PayPal account and when sending a payment they ask to add a credit
card .

Could be time to develop my domain

easypay.app

[RyuLion]

Someone told me to use Venmo also because they charge .25 to transfer via your phone, but it turns out they're owned by paypal also..

An alternative of that is: cash app.

Details:
Cash App is a peer-to-peer (P2P) payment service owned by Square Inc. (NYSE: SQ), a major player in the financial technology (fintech) industry. Cash App is only a part of Square's business, which is built on software and point-of-sale hardware for business of all sizes.

[Oracle Porn]

there is really no paypal alternative for ecommerce so it's pretty fucked, for me this new rule means 100's of dollars out of my pocket...this sucks...

[ilnjscb]

Gaddammit can't one of you geniuses build a payment interface for BTC or a new crypto and disrupt these scumbags?

[RyuLion]

there is really no paypal alternative for ecommerce so it's pretty fucked, for me this new rule means 100's of dollars out of my pocket...this sucks...

Gaddammit can't one of you geniuses build a payment interface for BTC or a new crypto and disrupt these scumbags?

..soon I hope..

[k0nr4d]

They know they’re a monopoly and now change rules that pay them to return money.

They're a monopoly??

If I was able to drop them from one day to the next without ANY effect on my business, then they are far from a monopoly. They are the biller of choice only for ebay, and ebay's getting eaten away by Amazon and Aliexpress, as well as various local auction sites dependent on country (for instance in Poland - Allegro and OLX). Back 10-15 years ago people actually kept money in their paypal accounts and paid things with it (and THEN it was a monopoly) - now most of the times when someone uses it they are actually using their credit card which is hooked up to it. That dispute was the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm now paying 1,9% instead of the 10% or whatever after the forced currency exchange to PLN at thier bullshit spread.

[BaldBastard]

Palpal recently offered me a business loan, which I'm not looking for but clicked the link from an email out of curiosity, as soon as I did that they locked my account ( no send or receive ) wanting full re-verification of it.

This is an already fully verified business account I've had for at least 10 years, with 1-3 thousand $USD a week going through it. They did this to me on a Friday of a long weekend, wanting shit like original company registration papers, company seal, Gov photo ID, most of it takes a week or more to organise.

Come Tuesday when I can finally talk to someone locally I lose the plot with them, and an hour later the accounts restored... very Sorry Mr Bastard.

Don't click nothing from PayPal

[ilnjscb]

They're a monopoly??

If I was able to drop them from one day to the next without ANY effect on my business, then they are far from a monopoly. They are the biller of choice only for ebay, and ebay's getting eaten away by Amazon and Aliexpress, as well as various local auction sites dependent on country (for instance in Poland - Allegro and OLX). Back 10-15 years ago people actually kept money in their paypal accounts and paid things with it (and THEN it was a monopoly) - now most of the times when someone uses it they are actually using their credit card which is hooked up to it. That dispute was the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm now paying 1,9% instead of the 10% or whatever after the forced currency exchange to PLN at thier bullshit spread.

Well then Conradin (5 points if anyone knows the short story that's from) why don't you start on a payment system, you being a coder of widely acknowledged ability?

[RyuLion]

^^^^^^^^^^^

[symtab]

I think paypal is actually good. During my 10 years selling my scripts i've had several situations with "clients" that downloaded the software and then said that they want their money back (for different reasons, like it was not my card, my wife doesnt allow me to use this software, i dont like it, i dont know how to use it). I have not lost any dispute, i discuss with all my clients before they buy so i always provide the discussion transcript and paypal always sided with my claim.

[k0nr4d]

I think paypal is actually good. During my 10 years selling my scripts i've had several situations with "clients" that downloaded the software and then said that they want their money back (for different reasons, like it was not my card, my wife doesnt allow me to use this software, i dont like it, i dont know how to use it). I have not lost any dispute, i discuss with all my clients before they buy so i always provide the discussion transcript and paypal always sided with my claim.

Then you got lucky because I sent transcripts, screenshots, everything and lost 100% of all disputes regardless of my proof.

[k0nr4d]

Well then Conradin (5 points if anyone knows the short story that's from) why don't you start on a payment system, you being a coder of widely acknowledged ability?

Namely the lack of $10-20mil in startup funds required to code it, promote it, hire customer support, etc.

[symtab]

Then you got lucky because I sent transcripts, screenshots, everything and lost 100% of all disputes regardless of my proof.

Hmm...did you sell using paypal directly? I'm asking this because, while i won all disputes when i sold using paypal directly, i never won a dispute for a sale that was made using avangate, i've always sent the exact transcripts, but they never won a dispute for me...

On a side note: Nice script you have there )

[ilnjscb]

Namely the lack of $10-20mil in startup funds required to code it, promote it, hire customer support, etc.

You should make a one pager. I'd buy a piece of that.

[Grisey]

there is really no paypal alternative for ecommerce so it's pretty fucked, for me this new rule means 100's of dollars out of my pocket...this sucks...

Stripe are huge and taking for ecommerce

[Black All Through]

Stopped using them for "business" back in 2012

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Paypal? It is to laugh!

Haven't been around for a while but I'm back now full time.

I do not accept Paypal except for some ebay listings on which I am essentially forced to but I always use tracking numbers and do not leave feedback until feedback is left for me.

All other services I provide must be paid by wire transfer or Western Union. Some buyers don't like it and they are free to go elsewhere. I do not need the headaches Paypal causes.

[k0nr4d]

Hmm...did you sell using paypal directly? I'm asking this because, while i won all disputes when i sold using paypal directly, i never won a dispute for a sale that was made using avangate, i've always sent the exact transcripts, but they never won a dispute for me...

Yes, every single time it was via paypal directly. Granted this isn't frequent, like 4-5 times total since I've been in business - but enough to see a definite pattern. *knock on wood* zero problems since we changed to our own card processor (dotpay, skrill and now just set stripe as primary). I think paypal has so many disputes because it's super easy - click of a button instead of having to phone and lie to a banker in person, paypal invariably sides with the buyer and there's absolutely no consequences so there's no harm trying.

[RyuLion]

Uggh, the 11th is around the corner..