How long and how do you make minimum wage in adult today?

there is no free porn on a German .de domain

if the rest of the world did the same they did, there would be no free porn at all (online).

but since that didn't happen, it just made all German porn companies move to different countries (with very few exceptions that did comply)

paul. but the industry would not survive with the peanuts you made.

actually the whole porn industry was ALWAYS depending on ads.
the only difference to now is that nobody else takes the risk as the one who thinks he have a good product.

and that means: that the ones who do not have it are not on our pay list anymore.

adapt or die - that´s the hard truth you just learn about biz.
you had a lifetime to learn it earlier.

And about online porn killing offline porn and tubes stealing and subsequently killing the paysite business:

I know how in the late 1990ties offline porn companies were approached to license their content for web - back then for a lot of money. They said no cause they feared for their DVD sales and so websites started doing their own production.

I also know how tubes in the beginning tried to license content - once again for good money back then - but they were turned down by mostly everyone. I also refused to license to tubes in the beginning. Stupid, stupid mistake.

That tubes then resorted to "user uploads" (haha) delivered a double blow to paysites and producers - no money for existing content and losing their members.

But what also needs to be said: When tubes came up, they simply delivered a superior product: streaming, clean sites, no viruses, no credit card banging and a shitload of content.

Compared to 20 videos in 320x240 for $29.95 a month plus 3 cross-sells - the standard "premium exclusive site" in early 2000...

There are paysite companies who understood and adapted, so it wasn't like tubes forced everyone else to die. Most paysite owners were just not competent enough to run a professional business because making money before was far too easy.

that "little while back" was almost 2 years ago - as you can see from my sig, I still run AmazingContent.com – high quality licensed and custom adult content - the last time I produced content myself is about 15 years back.

and i went to Portugal once to attend the EU Summit.

but it's nice there.

I agree that the porn biz was always about ads. I wrote for Penthouse magazine back in the day and would get around $5000 per article, sometimes twice that amount. How could they afford to pay me that much for my writing? Subscriptions and newsstand sales yes but mostly through selling ad space based on circulation. That's how they could afford to pay photographers like Paul, too.

But do not assume the paysite business model is dead. It is not. If it were then WHY do people keep opening them and releasing new ones? Because paysites are the ONLY place where traditional "content" (pictures and videos) come from. Sure you can tape a cam show but that's not really the same thing.

But like with most things adult-related you have to re-adjust your expectations. It is NOT 2006 anymore so creating a paysite that will generate millions in revenue is extremely difficult these days (but not impossible). Conversations like these always degenerate into the EASIEST way to make a buck, or the most profitable. Paysites can be "the most profitable" since they are selling finished products that can generate revenue for years after production ceases. But are they the quickest way to riches? Not anymore no. But that doesn't mean they aren't still a viable option for consumers and quite profitable still.

Email me please at mb -at- lifeselector.com

as much as you schooled paul earlier, I just want to point out that the ad industry is different to the porn industry. When I make $$$ as an affiliate, I'm in the ad business. When I make $$$ with content I produce I'm in the porn business.

Carry on.

i never said they are dead - that was paul who said that.

but porn-membersites are not "the product" anymore that would keep thousands of affiliates alive as the buyer market is limited.

I also said that the existing ones COULD get a bigger attention when it comes to affiliate IF they would fulfill the needs of the new affiliate generation.
within all my advertisers there are just 2 that send a bit traffic to paysites because there are just a very few that are offering this options.

i think you missmatch here something.
if you are right the big tubes would have nothing to do with the porn biz.
but if you ask people out there they will tell you exactly those names when you ask them who the porn biz is.

actually the tubes are also selling content - they just use another way to get paid.
users don´t come there because they want to see ads - they come for porn.

the difference might be the same as free tv and pay tv but both are in the tv-biz and both are attracting their customers with (mostly the same) movies.

porn production does not make a biz.
same as shoe production will not make a biz.

the big error here is that you can not cut a part of a very big circle out and call it the biz.

not even the whore on the corner is a standalone biz because she would not stay on this corner if there would not be another attraction that brings people there. she would not stand there if there would not be a way to come there and she would not know where to go with the customer when there would not be an hour-hotel in the near.

if you try to understand economy from this side you will see how complex it actually is and how many obviously not connected businesses are depending on each other.

if someone would not make the internet a biz - nobody would sell anything in there.
if someone else would not make delivery to it´s biz - the internet could not be used to sell physic goods. if someone would not make payment to it´s biz - the goods bought could not be paid. and if the first one that made internet to it´s biz would not get a competitor it would be still a very very small and limited market as it would be too expensive for the mass.

an economy is an unmanageable large organism in which one wheel turns into the other. and you can look at this machine down to the smallest wheel and you will find that it does not stop there that wheels interlock.

this is also where most misjudgements and management mistakes happen because many people look too much at this single wheel and not at the big machinery where the big trends and tendencies emerge.
if you learn to look at the big picture, you will see that almost every future development is predictable.

I agree, which is why I posted what I did. You have posted a few times now in response to porn biz people (markham, porn nerd) that the ad biz powers their porn biz (disclaimer: I've possibly misinterpreted what you've said).. it doesn't.

And tubes *aren't* in the porn biz, they are in the ad biz, despite what some joe public surfer who just wants a wank might think.

Their *market* is the porn market, obviously, but their business is ads -either directly, or as affiliates.

To use MG as an example, their paysites like brazzers etc are 'the porn biz', and their tubes are 'the ad biz'. As you rightly say, you can't just say MG are 'the porn biz' - that's only a part of their business.

Most affiliates & ad guys struggle to make the distinction, but it's there.

From what I can see, you guys (you, markham, porn nerd, in the latter part of this thread) are coming at the conversation from very different viewpoints, which is why you are each struggling to get the 'other side' to understand the specifics, and that's the reason why I brought it up, because it's an interesting thread but has started to go round in circles. And yes I know you ran paysites so know that side as well, it's just not factoring in to your points here, as far as I can see.

ps dick pills, and dating aren't porn either, even if they come under the umbrella of 'adult'

I agree with all the above, but eg you cannot say hotels that do 1 hour bookings are in the prostitution biz, when streetwalkers are asking why there are less johns driving past. Coming in as the owner of 12 hotels that offer this, and saying '1 hour room hotels drive the streetwalker biz' which is kinda what you are doing.. either by the language barrier, or just me being a thick cunt... both of which are equally likely. Hotels are in the hotel biz, regardless if 100% of their clients are street walkers.

But.. rather than get into another 15 posts to go into analogy after analogy, my point was: you aren't looking at what porn nerd (and others) do as a separate thing to what you do, and that's causing a loop.

They can't fulfil those needs of the new aff generation because the payouts to affiliates aren't high enough.. that's the single reason. You can't raise the payouts (by much) because the product (paysites) has been devalued by theft and workarounds like dmca, and used as free inventory to sell products B,C, etc (pills, dating). You can't bid on a space that is giving you $40, $50, $60 per paysite join when you are bidding against placements that give out $70+ per pill sale. Which I think is one of the points being brought up - far from 'driving' porn, the ad space as it is now is killing porn - to a degree.

For paysite owners it's slightly different with regards to ad networks, as their LTV is a lot higher ofc (which you touched on in one of your earlier posts).

What are you scared of?

Men will always use porn to jerk off to, be it a girl in a bikini or a girl getting gang banged.

We made $billions from a much softer form of porn in the 90s.