How long and how do you make minimum wage in adult today?

stop making a fool out of yourself.
you do not have a clue about this things so better shut up.

if one user is watching 10 videoclips and buys - even your numbers are already at 1:3600
because it is not the numbers of clips watched, not the numbers of page biews - it is the number of potential buyers that matters.


So the best you can expect is 10 sales for $500 the worse 10 sales for $180.

in average around 8-10% of visitors click on a banner. on sites with a lot of returning customers it might be a bit less but IF they click this click is much more valuable.

btw. i did not change my calculation - i just broke it down to a viewer of a single video.
and here you have to make a difference between a video watched 2 seconds or a virdeo watched over is whole length.

just because you are zapping through your TV programms does not make you a viewer on each channel you zapped through.

it is MUCH more - but mindgeek is not the adult internet. the millions of smaller sites together are even bigger in sum as mindgeek ist with thier 10 or 15 flagships.

and mindgeek is also not baes alone on tubes - they make money with their paysites (from wich they do have a few more than tubes).

with the traffic from their tubes they make MUCH more as they can do with ALL affiliates in sum - and as they know that they can also sell other products there they make everything profitable.

you, old man, just don´t know how this game works and you will never find it out because you'd rather resist the truth than accept it.

No, I do not agree.

After two pages I have no idea what your point is.

My initial reaction is to think you are a fucking idiot.

My more considered reaction is that you're a complete fucking idiot.

But if you really believe what you type then you're a bit sad really.

You just type waffle, contradict yourself, make up things and pretend to be some all knowing oracle of the past with the foresight to understand contemporary and future business models.

Paul... you have me on your ignore list. Please.... ignore me!!!

i like having a shitty ass...

nothing is perfect and keeping balance is an ongoing process. but I think I do it quite good.

btw: the general market rules are similar in every market.

here you answer the question already for yourself because the people that do spend this money are the ones that you compete with.

no olympic sprinter will walk slower just to give the last one a chance to win.

the problem with 99% of all existing membersites is obvious:
the complete marketing concept is made for affiliate webmasters that mostly do not have the smallest clue of advertising because the do not really pay for the traffic they are dealing with.

away from that a affiliate webmaster will never have the really big numbers what would give him options to test things out. they always know what they have but they never know what they do not have.

this sort of affiliates is already replaced since years from people that do not even know how to set up a website because they are focused just on buying traffic and make it profitable.
but not even 1% of the membersite owners ever cared about their needs.
most simple things like clickid and postback integration is not existing in the affiliate programs. bannerfarms with completely untested banners are provided and landingpages
are not designed for the different traffic they are dealing with.

just think about the following:

there are thousands of webmasters out there that get a payout of 1000 dollars per month.
so bring this 1000 dollars in relation to the revenue they make for you or other programs.

to make money with mediabuys a one-man-show mediabuyer have to invest at least
20 or 30 thousand dollars per month to make 2000 or 3000 profit (so this is a very small one). now bring this 20 or 30 thousand in relation to the revenue you or other programms have to make with this little guy and ALL YOUR QUESTIONS are answered.

and the media buyer in this example is really not a big one.
there are many big media buying companies with a few hundert employed media buyers where each one have a budget of 100 k to spend.
do you see WHERE your market is and at wich point you missed it?

i know that a few affiliate programs are currently working to make up for these gigantic failures. but it will take a long time to find a connection to a seller market that has long since established itself and that doesn't care what products are made into money.
and there are many products that have a much higher lifetime value than a porn site.

consequently a rethinking will have to take place and site operators will have to open ways to increase the actual value of a customer, because only then they are able to compete.

This is the unfortunate, but necessary compromise of getting rid of the political lunatics... sifting through senile PM's posts

Yes I get what you are saying and it proves one of my points: that the law of "big numbers" applies when it comes to media buying and, really, the product being sold does not matter. It could be porn or kitchen utensils.

But I highlighted what you wrote above as an example. I can think of many, many ways to make a $2000-$3000 profit without spending a dime (or very little) since that is a low (but good) achievable figure. If I was going to invest 20-30K in order to get that little amount I would rather spend it on content, more sites, my own traffic network, reviews, etc etc. Because at the end of all that I would actually HAVE something. With the media buy model 90% is 'wasted' expense. A lot to get a little, not much bang for your buck, etc.

Oh but I know what you will say! You can SCALE that 20-30k/$2000-$3000 profit, right? No not always. It's especially hard with paysites. And what it takes to do that is not always something, lifestyle-wise, a small webmaster wants to do (more employees, overhead, etc)

On a side note: I wonder if ALL content production suddenly STOPPED how long it would take for the tubes and ad networks to see a decline in traffic, views, revenue, etc? I am guessing, with over two decades of filmed content to rotate, the drop-off would be minimal. So does that signal an eventual end to content production?

that´s more or less correct

and exactly here you see things wrong.

imagine you are a billionaire and you want to invest your money in something that is more profitable than stock market or anything else.
did you caclulate the REAL interest rate on that?

it is not 10% per month - so 120% interest per year.
it is MUCH more as this guys are playing again and again with the SAME money they have played the month before. so depend how much one will reinvest he will end up with such a huge profit as you can not even imagine or do in ANY other biz.

I know media buyers that have started with 10 k borrowed from the grandma and they play now with 100-200 k per month as they reinvested all in the first year and after that they reinvested the half of the profit.

there is no bigger biz around than that and this is why there is so many money in it.
ask a bank on what you can get 120% or more profit - they will not have an answer.
but ask a billionaire if he will invest on 20% and you know how to make money in this biz he will shit his money on you - always assuming that you know the business, the tools and the market



YOU do not have to scale or invest nothing because you are far too late to learn
this tricky biz and as you need your time to maintain a product you do not have the time to learn it.

all what you have to do is to give this people who are doing this biz already the options they need and THEY will invest and not you.

there is so much content around and it does not matter if it is old or new.
the number of content producers have multiplied in the past 10 years.
and those are the ones that are producing already for this market. they do not even need shops or something like that as they have a few 100 tubes buying a few 100 videos from them month by month - they just do not pay 50 dollars for a scene - maybe they pay 2 or 3.

i actually spend for licences every year around 100-150 thousand euro - and i am just a small clown -how much do you spend with your paysites ?

so no - this argument does not work as the biz is much too big already and everything is here. it is also not a big problem for the big tubes to open their own productions and resell the same content later to their own competitors (what is actually also existing already) you can either swim with the stream or wait til the stream comes back. but this will not happen.

i know that does not sound too nice but true words are mostly not nice and nice words are mostly not true.

Yes the same rules apply, if you give the product away to support advertising the return isn't going to be as good as selling the product.

If you made a profit from your traffic spend, investing even more is easy. $500 a month could be $5,000, which could be $50,000. And you would have more money to invest in more content, sites, etc. The problem is paying enough for the content to make the traffic profitable. A small number of companies can do that.

The problem has always been the porn industries obsession in traffic being the answer to everything. We see that here with someone saying Thommy's 404 page gets more traffic than me content stores. Who cares how much traffic one gets if it buys nothing?

So far no one has come up with figures on the CTR, conversion ratios and price sits get for traffic. But I guaranty it's not enough to pay for content production and a higher BW charge. Because an industry that boasts a $2,000 return on a $20,000 investment isn't making enough on the billions of hits it gets.

No worries, I am a New Yorker and I am used to not nice words. LOL Besides, I am just trying to learn here so thank you for your responses.

But I would then ask: how does this person with 10K from Grandma do this from scratch with little to no knowledge of the game? He would burn through that 10k in a couple weeks before he learned enough/failed enough to get good at it.

I understand what you are saying but, as always, I only really care about how MY BUSINESS can grow, and I do not see a way our business models could merge strategies. If I wanted to be a media buyer pushing dick pills and cams then maybe I would care more but that is not the life I want to live. I want to sell something, not jiggle margins like a day trader. But hey, to each his own.

PS: I'm not a billionaire.

the very fist thing i saw when i joined this biz in 1997 was the fact that it was made by amateurs and if there is the money in it that we all have expected than that this will not be for a long time. where is money to make the professionals will show up.

so my intension in all those years was to tell everybody my visions and make them smarter.

many of this people hated me for it and called me a fool but on the long term all my predictions came true and the ones that have listened to it and reacted are still in the game.

it is not very hard to predict those things if you are at least a bit skilled in economy and you are willing to look at the negative aspects.

well this example was NOT meant as the usual case. i have also seen people who had money losing all because they thought it is too easy.

i know personally a few of the other group that is indeed successful and it was maybe because they came to me first and i did not sell them the traffic because i saw they will lose all with the skills they had.

i invested a lot of time into them and teached them step by step what to do and how to interpret what they see. today this hours of teaching them are paid multiple times because they are my customers and spend a lot of money with me and rarely have a question or need my attention.

so to answer your question:
it all depends who you believe.
it is the same thing as SEO. 90% of the SEO rules are completely bullshit and every skilled informatic or maths professional can tell you that they are technically impossible or do not make sense.

the 10% you have to really know about SEO are not so easy to find as only an asshole would tell you the right winning numbers for the lottery and an asshole is not smart enough to find them out.

but essentially the basic of media buying is that you must accept to lose money in the start and you must realize that this money is not lost because you got information in exchange.

imagine: if you convert 1:100 you are doing ONLY 99% wrong
so the real goal on media buying is not concentrating on this 1% as it will not bring you sufficient numbers fast enough.
a smart mediabuyer is concentrating on the bigger number - the 99% that did NOT convert.

if you are able to bring the error quote from 99% to 98% you have doubled up your result.

this is the reason why modern internet marketing CAN NOT work without a clickid as you will ONLY know all about the sale but you know nothing about the ones that did NOT buy.

the clickid (and btw. I was the inventor of the clickid in 2006/2007) changed the complete internet marketing worldwide.
compared with a good tracking system you could suddenly see that landingpage1 worked
profitable but the sales came only from android and IOS users with a safari browser did not sign up.

when you know that you can either find the reason why it does not work with them (mostly design or CSS issues) or sou send this traffic to a page where you can see positive results for IOS/safari.

but even when you think this is all you need to know and learn you are completely wrong because when we are talking about traffic we are actually talking about people.
a professional advertiser knows the most about people.

you can show me whatever banner you want and whatever landingpage you want and i will tell you where the problems are (and you can be sure i will find a problem everywhere because I have learned all that what no self-made designer have learned)

i can tell you about male colorblindness in color combinations - i can tell you about readability of fonts - i can tell you about fontsizes and color signals and i can tell you that you will not be able to bring a message to a user when you are using a never stopping gif as the human eye will always go automatically to the movement.

these are just the BASICS of advertising and believe me this board does not have enough space to write down what i can tell you about it that you have never ever even looked at.

so no - it is not easy and not fast - but it is also NOT impossible.

i am talking about YOUR business too.
i just tell you that there is a huge group of people out there that does nothing else that buy - optimize - and make it profitable.

you will NEVER compete with this guys because they are universes ahead.

but why a fuck do you guys not try to reach these people by just adding a few really simple technical things.
this same technical things can even help the few webmasters that are skilled with this modern techniques.

it is available since 2007 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 12 years ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it made the complete affiliate market in the whole world 1000 times bigger and you guys still don´t get it.

if you do not believe me ask andy wullmer (the traffic captain from trafficparter)
he was in that time CEO from SGM and SGM back than was the first company worldwide that implemented the clickid for me only (and they hated me for it first because they could not understand it too)

i start my 3rd billion right now as the first 2 did not work out :-)

old man, learn to read or learn to calculate and than come up with arguments or go to count the gras in your garden if you haven´t other stupid arguments that we heard now often enough.

accept that you are a loser because you do not understand the biz you want to teach us and you will never change to be a loser as you don´t want to understand the biz.

I started over from scratch just over a year ago with no financial investment, it took about 3 weeks to get to the numbers you're describing, and 3 months to hit five figures a month.

wich is great and shows that you know what you do.
congrats !

on the other hand i see every day people who do NOT know anything about this biz - do not even have the smallest idea of the available tools and how to use them and then complain it to the traffic.

if i have learned something than it this:

as long as traffic is real you can get money out of it if you know how

if you do not know how you will burn the best traffic in the world to ashes.

but actually we do have the tools and the knowledge to make money - as more i am astonished that people who do not comply with this circumstances are seeking other reasons for their misfortune.

That's great can we learn how you did it?