How long and how do you make minimum wage in adult today?

if you would be smart enough you would find out already by yourselfs and not only try to signup in my network as bakery ;-)

an I am saying that since we give it for free we make a lot more with simply showing ads around it.

paul i was running a huge and very successful membersite for more than 12 years.
i know how hard it is to get even one single buyer and as i started that side in 1999 i also know the numbers from this good old times you are talking about.

the expenditure to run a sich a website is HUGE - starting from fraud protection til customer care, content buys, affiliate system, servers, content delivery and much much more.
even with 2 million revenue per year there is not more than 8-10% of net profit left if you want to make it good. and there are not many membersites that make 2 million revenue - not in the good old times and also not now.

so don´t think that i don´t know about this market. because i know it MUCH better than you as i had actually the very first paysite on membership base in the german market - we´ve started one week before fundorado and if i would KNOW that they start i would rather promote them as to go through this B2C hell.

fundorado is still doing good - but the market is not big enough to keep that many of them alive. but the market is big enough for all the publisher sites when they do not focus on this little cake.

btw. the video market started to die already around 2000 when the first livecams came up. in all the time when i had membersites the usage was 80% on cams (wich we bought and sold flat also) and just 20% on videos and pictures. so in fact we paid too much for videos already than as it was never the reason why people signed up.

tell me why livecams are still here and bigger than ever before even when you can get them for free ? what did they do better as you did?
they are just smarter as you are and think further as you can ever think.
so do not complain the tubes or the market - complain your brain!

i am sure that even YOU know that this numbers are not really existing anywhere.
the offline pornbiz was a black money biz - and because it was easy it was made by pimps with no clue of the market.

What are you trying to tell me? You worked as a drug farmer all your life?

did you ever calculate how much that is in a month when a site just have 100 k visitors per day ? and you would wonder HOW MANY tubes have A LOT MORE.

business is not communism - the best will have the most traffic and the others die.
it is as simple as that and it works like this in EVERY kind of biz.

and here is the logic that you don´t get.
if this biz would not make money there would not be such a competition.

and yes of course it is harder today because you can not make money when you are dumb . i never said anything else !

but that smart ones do not only make the same money as before - this money is still here and not even this money - it is MUCH MUCH MORE - but it goes into the hands of the smart, competitive, far-seeing, skilled and not in the hands of people with your views.

so if you want to discuss the biz - than discuss it on the reality of today and not on a long past era when a couple of idiots who had no name to lose bathed themselves in the champagne that rained from the sky. and when exactly these unprofessional idiots asked every one to become their competitor because they believed it was "infinitely" much of it there in the paradise.

if you know the offline business so well, then ask one of the half-dead guys from back then what it was like to open a new sexshop on the other side of the street.

The only "problem" I see with your business model - buying/selling "circle jerk" traffic or pushing dick pill ads on tubes etc - is that, eventually, advertisers will realize that this is just a giant circle jerk game. Sure they can convert once they get into the laws of big numbers - 100,000 hits here, $50,000 spent there buying 5 million clicks etc - but the margins are tiny and getting smaller all the time.

With adblockers, Google and others tightening their software to block annoying ads, etc I predict in 5 years or less those profiting from this circle jerk traffic will drop signicantly. Will it ever go away? No, not likely since there IS profit in it. But the cost to earn that profit will continue to go up as the companies that profit the most from these strategies continue to shrink.

Your game Thommy is based solely and strictly on huge numbers, mathematics and probabilities. That's awesome for the analytically and metric minded. But, in the end, only VERY large companies will be able to afford this kind of game where the basic investment is a minimum of 50k just to get any type of traction at all.

But, as you say, this is true of EVERY market. Those who work with Wal-mart will always insist everything is just dandy while the small community supporters of the local flower shop will bitch til they go out of business or settle for tiny scraps. So you know, good for you for working with the porn Wal-Marts of the world but your calculations don't really apply to us normal 'small business' types.

you don´t seem to know about my business model so let me explain you my thoughts.

when i was starting trafficfabrik there have been only CPM networks out there and here i saw the problem.

CPM is a method that is completely based on performance - means: an advertiser wants to have as many clicks as possible and assumes that there are a few buyers in a big number.

additionally the CPM model is an open door so decrease quality because however prices are falling a publisher just have to add one more banner and ready is the banner farm.

this is why i was going CPC only and everybody was laughing at this time about this idea.

as i do have a quite huge number of own sites I did not need a lot of publishers and also no other network or RTB shit to have traffic enough to start.
right now we do have not more than 80 publishers and nearly ALL of them are big or running huge networks but 100% of them I know personally and they are following my vision.

my vision is that a user clicks banner not for accident - I want he clicks because he is interested. sure that leads to a much lower CTR but the quality of a click is much more valuable. i also do not want that people go away from a site just because they where tricked - a user can buy today, tomorrow or next month or next year - it does not matter - but to do that he have to come back.

the coalition for better ads rules have been in my network long before coalition for better ads was existing - and believe me they are even harder than theirs.

no 500 kb animations - not even animations that never stop.
no fake chats - no fake closing buttons - not even a yes-no on a banner or something what could be understood wrong is allowed.

so and now let´s resume what have happend in this last 7 years:

COM prices went down around 50-60%
my prices went up 500%

7 years ago the network was already closed for publishers and worked on invitation only.
now it is also closed for advertisers because it is already too much competition inside the network. I do allow clean advertisers what are promoting stuff that is not already over promoted. I actually do not need new advertisers because i rarely lose one.
we also need to keep in mind that the really big buyers would not buy even the very best traffic when the numbers are too small.
big mediabuying agencies would not even try to buy when they can not spend at least 2000-3000 euro per day (but better more) because to maintain and optimize big campaigns makes less effort than big campaign. and a GOOD mediabuyer will laugh out loud when you offer him this job for 5 or 6 thousand dollar per month.

we are mainly focusing the german speaking market but even when we are so limited and when not many of you guys know us - we are the fastest growing adult adnetwork on the planet. it is not very hard to grow from year 1 to year to 100% and even in year 3 to 4 50% are not really rare. we are growing 3-digit since 7 years.

i started in this biz as a webmaster and i owned paysites - i even had my own payment system - so I really know this biz from EVERY point of view. there is really NOTHING what I haven´t done yet - but i come originally from advertising and this is where I am best - and this is why I focus on that.
I know that it will ONLY work when ALL people involved are happy and not only the advertiser OR the publisher OR the network. the art in this biz is to keep the balance between them.

so if you talk about advertising networks you can completely exclude me here because I have a VERY different idea of that and go - as I always did - my very special own ways.

But Paul can save, of course, the same and entire business he declared dead.... with his brilliant and unlimited creative mind (for autists... this is clearly sacasm):

So.... shitty ass producers.... start shooting those fake castings and lottery winner- scenes!!! It will be raining sales again! Owh man.... YES!!! The hotel cleaner! We have a whiner... I mean a winner!!!! Never thought of that one... how could i have been so uncreative!

Thank God Paul could have saved the industry......................................
.................................................. ................................
................ if he wasn't retired

and look how fast the world reacted on his post

https://www.letmejerk.com/se/who-wan...naire&sort=pop

https://redporn.xxx/tubes/casting/

https://www.homepornking.com/tag/sex+toy+testing/

https://sss.xxx/cleaner/

Are you saying Paul is not only a brilliant creative mind he also appears to be an important influencer???

more or less like a fashion guru that tells you the newest fashion trends from summer 1998

Yeah the guy is amazing. He would put one finger in an ass and thus he could predict next years’ fashion trends...

I can't decide if Paul believes what he writes or if he is just on a single minded trolling exercise.

(a) if he believes the stuff he writes then he's a fool.
(b) if he is making shit up and trolling and we reply then we are fools.

I try my best to ignore him. He's not a participant in the industry anymore and, regardless of the answer to the question posed above, he doesn't understand contemporary online practices.

Thommy is claiming advertising the product make more money than selling the product. Even if he includes all Webcams, penis pills and paysites, etc advertising there's no way it can make more money than selling the product. If he was right Tubes would be producing their own content solely for the Tubes sites, paysites would be switching over to Tube sites not because they forced to but because there was more money in advertising.

Everyone knows that since Tubes came along the paysite model has taken a huge hit. Because you can't sell what's given away for free. His claim that there are more surfers online is wrong, not in countries that buy porn in the numbers needed.

Ad blockers and companies like Google will block more and more ads. Making sure more surfers install ad blockers is essential.

So you have found that balance where everyone is happy and profitable. Awesome! I do not speak German unfortunately so could not play in your market.

However, if you could PM me and show me, step-by-step, how to turn say a $500 weekly investment into profit I would be most interested.

So for us smaller guys to do media buying we really have to make a profit relatively quickly, not spend 20-50k on 'research' as we buy/lose, buy/lose then turn a small profit then try to scale.

The porn industry is far from dead and I've never claimed it is.



Shitty ass producers are very much the norm today, because the money they can earn.

So you agree, advertising the product make more money than selling the product. Which is why Tubes can afford to have their own content produced just for Tubes, large paysites are switching over to Tubes because advertising makes more money than selling. And if you stopped giving it away for free the advertising companies wouldn't survive. And the industry is making more money today than it was 12 years ago. Because we give it away for free.

No one so far has given average figures on porn traffic and I doubt if anyone will. What's the average CTR on porn traffic, what's the average conversion ratio on porn traffic, what's the average price a porn site gets for it's traffic?

If the conversion ratio is the same or similar to a porn video clip it has to be 1-36,000. Even at 1-10,000 and the price is $5 a 1,000, that's a cost of $180 to $50 per sale.

So the best you can expect is 10 sales for $500 the worse 10 sales for $180.

How many of those porn surfers click on an advert? These figures must exist, but so far no one has given accurate figures. Except Thommy with his 0.0005 per visitor which he promptly changed when I revealed the return.

The big guys, Mindgeek, do make a lot of money. Is it more than the money we all made back in the day?