How long and how do you make minimum wage in adult today?

My world went down when I discovered I had cancer, that was 6 months after my wife had a near death car accident and spent a lot of time in hospital recovering.

It was also the time I decided to retire. After 30 years in the biz.

At our height we were selling online and offline and making great money as a content producer. A dam sight more than most paysites.

You really are clueless. Do some research and find out what the owners of those few magazines, sex shops earned.

There is no denying that today the porn industry supplies more porn than ever before. The difference is the money made. Magazines paid 10 times more than paysites could, online content stores sold 10 times more than paysites would pay. DVD companies paid 10 times more that paysites could.

Tubes can't afford to pay for content without a paysite model. They can't afford to pay a $5 a gig BW, while paysites could and did. The Hun could post a gallery and the BW bill was the difference between making a profit and making a loss, while some sites could afford to buy spots.

It doesn't matter how many people are watching porn, all that matters is how many buy porn.

Thanks for sharing.

does your pension gives you enough to buy a 2 euro calculator?

if yes try to tell me wich is the bigger market size:

100 magazines with 10.000.000 eranings or
10 million magazines with 10.000 earnings


see the upper calculation

excellent point - do you know how much a Mbit of bandwith was 15 years ago and how much a terrabit is today?

the costs to send a video to a user 15 years ago have been simply too high to give it fro free. with the tubes things have changed because they buy that much bandwidth that
they can give it for free AND make money with whatever else than selling porn.
alone the dating revenues that are made in porn today are aproximately 50 times higher as all porn online revenues 15 years ago.
and this is just dating - there are dozends of products more that bring the advertising money - why shoudl they only sell the product with the smallest group of buyers?

correct - and today he could even deliver it on his own costs because he can get 10.000 times more bandwidth for the same price.

i HAD this experience with the hun when i posted galleries around the millenium and i paid more for the bandwidth than i could make with the sales.

if a post did not get enough sales it was a negative balance.

change that in:

It doesn't matter how many people are watching wild wild west movies, all that matters is how many buy horses.

and you know how far you are from reality.
a hotel on the beach does not sell the beach it gives it for free and sells the bed and the food.

you will never understand how marketing, and especially internet-marketing works and this is why it is so senseless to discuss that with you.

- A model now makes 400 euro for a shoot and several hundreds or thousands a month on chaturbate saying she is a pornstar. She/He/Trans has much more options now to make money.

- When people where able to buy porn by Ideal bank (cost 0,30 cents per transaction) instead of telephone (20 - 50% of the transaction) i saw my income more than tripled in a year.

- A magazine made money cause of porn images, classifieds ads, sex stories, advertisement. Look what Adult Friendfinder makes, Backpage made, traffic companies make reddit makes... worldwide! etcetra. Only adultfriendfinder isn't interested in porn pictures or the advertiser must put them up (user generated content). I read a book about the history of porn in Holland, must ended up with no money at all due to circumstances (like the internet/ drugs/ bad investments/ living too large). I had a free classifieds porn site already 15 years ago, why buy a magazine with ads that are 4 weeks old and a reply takes also days/weeks. On my free sextories site i put even Paul Markhams pictures at the stories So in a way, you fucked the magazines also, just like the tubes ;)

- Magazines even made money putting in fake ads so people could sent a letter to the magazine and they would sent it to the author for 10 guilder ;)

- Recently Beat Uhse and Scala are taken over by EDC Internet (Dutch company) who started 15 years ago in an attic. He looked outside Europe and selling worldwide. And making more than regional sexshops with a market reach of maybe 50 - 200.000 people in medium large cities.

Magazines are history. If i tinder for free i see more porn than i could find in 1 magazine. And real amateurs

the fact ist that not one of this dino companies ever understood the internet.

beathe uhse, playboy, hustler and whoever else did NEVER even get in the near of the noname companies that have started with internet and have been focused on internet.

the big name´s market share in internet is a joke compared to the millions of internet enterpreneurs that have seen their future in the www.

when TV came up there have been many people crying like paul does because they where focused on the cinemas. they will not understand til today that the market with free movies is thousands of times bigger as the cinema market ever was, just for the reason that movie-income from cinema was always related to the ticket price and the popcorn and coke. if you give the movie for free you have options to get on the buyers complete budget and that makes it so valuable.

alone in our little network we are generating around 100.000 free signups per month in the different advertisers sites. roughly 3-4% in average of this people will ever buy the product wich are possibly 3000 to 4000 buyers with a livetimevalue of around 150-200 euro in dating and around 400-500 euro in cams.
BUT: as the market today is completely different of before the same revenue again is made with the 96-97% that do NOT buy the product because smart advertisers are using this data they got on the free signup and selling this user who signed up in a dating site (but never paid there a cent) something completely else. and this "else" have no limitation - it can be the next holidays or a car insurance.
people that are able to think above the horizon do know very well that the real value is in the existing contact possibility to someone who is a consumer. and no matter WHAT he is consuming - if you have his contact you can sell him all he might need til the end of his life.

what paul does not and will never understand is that the biz he was in just focused on 0,29% of the consumers budget - and this 0,29% for pron have been in 1996 0,29% and they are still 0,29% - the only thing that have changed is that with growing of the internet we got more people with lower buying power in the net and MUCH MUCH MUCH more who compete for this buying power.

the complete pott we are focusing WITH porn today is approximately 1000-2000 times bigger as in paul´s stone-age

Pulling figures out your ass neans nothing.

Exactly my point. Today it is possible to give away porn and lots of other things for free. But don't claim you make more money than you did when people were able to sell it and could afford to produce and deliver it. Because it's simply not true.

Exactly right, back then you had to be a lot better at making the porn, marketing, etc because if you weren't the cost of the BW made you lose money. Today people can forget about the cost of BW because delivering 1,000s of free videos doesn't cost as much as 1 TGP. You weren't good enough then, others were.



Again you come up with stupid examples. If free TV was so great, why are HBO, Netflix, Amazon, Disney making more money by charging. Streaming and cable TV is over taking the free channels supported by advertising.

Today you're dead right, if the girl can speak English and able to market herself. Back in the day cam models earned less than magazine models and we regularly picked up girls who had tried webcam and didn't make money. How many webcam girls make $1,000 a week working on cams?

- When people where able to buy porn by Ideal bank (cost 0,30 cents per transaction) instead of telephone (20 - 50% of the transaction) i saw my income more than tripled in a year.

You can't compare the magazine market back in the day without including all the world and all the magazines sold in shops.


Do you know what Beate Uhse was making from Germany alone with a share of the German porn shop market? Now multiply that by the rest of the world and every porn outlets, soft porn as well, to get a figure.

I know, the argument is whether it make more money from giving it away for free because you can sell ad space or selling it. There s no argument more money could and was made when we sold porn. Otherwise Tubes could afford to commission their own content to be created. Which they clearly can't because the advertising won't pay for it.

They couldn't afford the BW at a raised price, can't afford to pay for their own content, because they don't make enough money.

20 scenes a day on Pornhub = $2,000,000 a year for content alone and that's not for good content. I only allowed $3,000 per scene. How much do they make from advertising? How much traffic do they need to pay for content?

And would we as an industry be better off if porn tubes disappeared. Not that they will and we have to live with the cards we are dealt, but don't try to argue we can make more money giving it away for free than selling.

i give up on you. actually we all know now that there was no more money in the market as in the time when you made it .....

you write in a forum where people talk about a biz they live from.

now you don't know who does what or how much he earns but you are sure that they are all dumber than you and only harvest crumbs.

so you are here to tell the people that they are too late because YOU have already taken out everything that was possible.

in other words: you tell the people to give up their biz, in which many earn more in one year than you have earned in your whole life, because it is pointless.

you're such an old fool that you can't even see how ridiculous you are making yourself. if you need people to explain to you that the green men in your bed are not real, then you should go to the old people's home, because there are employees there who are paid to patiently listen to such stories of old senile men.

you're really freaking me out about getting old.
I hope that my fate will take me away before I start to tell tell such a hair-raising stupid bullshit.

the only thing you can really prove is that you didn't manage to build up a reasonably comfortable retirement income in this time of milk and honey.
so WHAT exactly should WHO learn from you?

every one of my dogs and cats knows more about internet and internet marketing than you do. so WHAT can YOU teach us ?
maybe how to win a formula1 race even though you've been cycling all your life?

i don't know what bridge you slept under before you switched to pornbiz. but it must have been a pretty deep valley if you now think you would have climbed the mount everst.

if you could play the piano i would like to explain to you why there are black keys next to the white ones and - surprise surprise - that you can use them too.

I got my calculations wrong.

Pornhub put up 20 new videos a day, at a cost of $3,000 per video. Could they do that and pay for the content?

20 x $3,000 x 365 = $21,900,000 How many surfers do you need to pay $21 million for just creating the content?

Did the porn industry generate 20 new scenes a day or 200?

Was the porn industry able to afford the BW costs or the printing cost or the duplicating costs prior to Tubes?

The truth is tubes can only survive because their costs today are so low. If they had to buy content, pay for a higher priced BW. Tubes would whither and die and paysites would replace them.

The Internet allowed loads of new people to enter porn and make money. Now the number of people making money in porn has shrunk to a low level. Most people here have switched to making money in other sides of the Internet. And porn as a part of their income, which is why the board has slowed down compared to the good times. With the front page containing threads from the last three days.

While Thommy rants on and on claiming something without offering examples to back it up. I offer examples.

You just described how business has worked for literally, thousands of years.

Typewriters would still be around if computers were not so darn cheap!

Horse and buggies would still be around if cars were not so darn cheap!

The world moves forward. Business moves forward. Those that don't, get left behind. Companies need to constantly move towards the next thing because there is a disruptor sitting underneath them that wants to come up and shove a broomstick up their ass.

Time to forget the glory days of being the high school basketball team champion and find something new to celebrate.

Wow PM still at it huh ;)))

I understand that and actually developed an online presence because I knew it was the future, when loads of other better content producers did nothing. The debate is over whether the industry made more money before Tubes ruined the industry.

IMO the best years were around 2000 to 2006. Offline sales were still good but not great, with DVDs, Cable, Mags, Phone lines, cable TV etc run on a country by country basis. Online sales were great as well on a world wide web basis.

To really coin it with an advertising based model online porn has to be accepted by mainstream advertisers. So ads for people like this. https://www.wordstream.com/articles/google-earnings

The porn industry is very much restricted to selling porn related products with it's advertising, with a few exceptions.

Tubes can't afford to buy content and certainly couldn't afford to relay content if BW were to rise. But for now Tubes are given loads of content and BW is priced very low.

paul, listen - i will give you a short explanation of marketing.

a market size is the result of a multiplication where is the number of buyers before the x and the price after the x.

no matter if you increase the number before or after the x it will have a higher result.

a porn movie and any digital good that you are able to simply copy have only ONE price - these are the cost of production. it is not the same as a salami sandwich that you have to produce for each single buyer.

so in fact the value of this video can be calculated based on the numbers of buyers and the price they are willing/able to pay for it.

in this case you might produce a video for let´s say 1000 dollar and sell it for 2000 or 2500 to someone who will hopefully make 4000 on a very very long term by finding 1000 customers who want to buy it for 4 dollar.

but you can also do a very other calculation by assuming that this video can be served to 100 million visitors for free. if each visitor "pays" indirectly though advertising only 0,0005 US the final market size for this video is not 4.000 but 50.000 dollar.

of course it is not sold to ONE buyer for 2500 dollar but maybe to 2000 buyers for 2,50 dollar.

what kind of products are promoted on this video doesn´t matter. we have already so many options with products that do not care to advertise in adult. especially dating, gambling, enhancement, cams, amateurs, ebooks are buying more traffic as any network have but we do also have buyers from the very nonadult world who start to understand that wankers are consumers.

even if this number is not THAT much yet there are again thousands of mediabuyers with nonadult product pages where all this products that we do not have yet directly are promoted and sold. the products do not want to be visable on a porn site but they do not care where the shopsite get it´s traffic from and here we are in another buyer market that did not exist 10 years ago.

on top of that every smart advertiser (and i would say 10% of them are already smart) is not really dependent on the sale of the product that it advertises - this is the reason why many product advertisers are calculation on single opt in.
marketing is above the product - the value is in the connection to the consumer and keep this connection alive.
if a marketer does have this connection to a consumer, he is able to sell him ANY KIND OF PRODUCT later. and this makes a simple emailadress or phone number MUCH MORE valuable as the sale of the product this user was originally catched.

as the internet (and especially the adult internet) is not a place where 2 or 3 big players getting all - you have to rethink the strategy of production. you will not be able to find enough buyers for a 50 dollar video but you will be able to find thousands for 2,50.

so in fact the market today is MUCH bigger as it was before - just the always yesterday people like you did not catch this ball and swim with the stream - instead of that you are praising since years that the stream will go back to the old direction - but this will NEVER happen because too many people making too much money with a much bigger market as the one you are still dreaming from.

So here's my version of marketing advice.

Selling to 1-20 is great
Selling to 1-200 is good.
Selling to 1-20,000 needs 100 times the quality traffic.
Selling to 1-200,000 needs 1,000 times the traffic.

Selling 5 @ $30 is good
Selling 500 @ $30 is bad.

Industries that don't give the product away are doing great online, industries that are giving away for free aren't.

Show me the video that gets 100 million views to make your example prove itself. Show me the Tubes sites that can afford to spend $60,000 a day to update their tube site. As the average view rate is less than 500,000 you make $250 a video, which doesn't support buying the video.

Yes we now supply more porn to more people for less profit than ever before.
If the market is doing much more money than it was, Tubes would be making their own content to be exclusive. We're giving it away to sell ad space because Tubes can afford to with free content and very low priced hosting/BW. But they can't afford to with only making $250 per video

Yes I've used you calculation with the real number of views to get the real picture.
If you were right, Tube sites would be buying content for their Tube sites or for a members only area. They're not they have to feed off free scenes, because you're wrong.