Article: The Porn Business Isn’t Anything Like You Think It Is

Ok Paul, show me peer reviewed research that shows the porn industry isn't worth $128 billion.

Just because your filler content rarely sells anymore doesn't mean others aren't making money.

There's over $1 billion dollars spent by porn sites on domain registrations each year. That's not including hosting. Just domains.

The price they can afford also comes into it. I know what a Rolls Royce costs, but I can't afford one. The truth is most have left the business. Is Stefan still in the business?



So what does that prove?



So it's not necessary to give away free porn.

Do you have children? So if a child is shown porn by a shop keeper or anyone. Let that person off an prosecute the parents. You can't have children or just a twat trying to enforce your stupid argument.

Which country allows children to access porn? You're missing the point. It's also a governments duty to protect children, but for some reason they ignore Tubes.

So what all this boils down to Paul Markham is that you have your nose out of joint because some people came along, turned the industry on it's head, launched tube sites, took over a swathe of the industry and you no longer make money.

People who couldn't adapt to new realities went broke or left the industry.

People who could adapt kept going and make money.

Remember everyone used to post "adapt or die" on here?

You didn't adapt, your business is worth a fraction of what it was. But I can assure you there are still people and companies making bank.

There's over $1 billion spent on domain registrations by porn sites or renewal every year. That money comes from somewhere.

$128 billion divided by 7.7 billion people equals $16.62 per person. Using logic and deducting, women and men not interest in porn, the too young, the people without Internet connection brings down that figure of 7.7 billion by half or more. You should know the value of a surfer and it's not $32.24. per surfer.

And then there's this. https://adage.com/article/digital/wo...google/293042/

Do you think the porn industry turns over 9 times more than Google? And over 47 times the turnover of Facebook. I doubt that in today's market it's turns over less than $1 billion. But that's using logic because no one knows with no audited figures to be had.

Did you miss my post about why I retired? Or should I keep working at 68 years old?

https://www.google.com/search?ei=xU8...03.F7YOpEACkss Not exactly a secret is it.

You didn't answer my previous post, just fell back to personal insults. Not good enough.

You don't understand how industries are valued. We're not talking about GDP but economic activity. I told you above that over $1 billion is spent by porn sites each year on domain registrations or renewals. Where does that money come from?


Yes.

Well, tell that every single production company that produces for any free TV station around this planet

I was talking turnover, you suddenly switched to turnover. So how did these people value the porn industry? Where do you get the $1 Billion on domain names? Not another guesstimate is it? But I found this. https://cira.ca/factbook/domain-indu...-name-industry

So if the turnover of the porn industry is around 10% of it's value, spending 8% on domain names isn't likely.

I will bookmark this and quote you on it.

There aren't any to my knowledge. But the porn industry allows Tubes to have free content.

No, underestimated.

We know how many porn sites we have indexed, we also know how many domains there are in our index, we can also break those up into TLD & nTLD.

It's simply a case of working out..

tld domain registration or renewal cost * number of domains indexed = yearly domain renewal expenditure for that TLD

Then add them up.

My figures are $1.2 billion a year, which would be an underestimate because we don't index as many sites as Google or Bing. For example sites containing malware or crypto miners or spamvertising etc are discarded from the index.

tv stations produce 'free' content.... PSA public service announcements

They actually don't make a fortune from record sales..live shows still and always make money but it's so cut up the artists don't see much. It's all digital and royalties now and the producers in music (or the artists) are pissed.

The evolution of music is similar to some segments in adult....because the consumer mindset is very different then those standing in line at Tower Records waiting for a record release....

$0.0064 per stream on Apple. $0.0038 on Spotify.

And it's chopped up even more between the labels/agents/whoever. So they are seeing at times a fraction (10%) of that actual number.

BUT they don't stop, they evolve and accept the new revenue model, because frankly - what are you going to do?

You've said some crazy things on here in the past, but everyone does know where you are coming from when you talk about the industry or how in your eyes "Porn is Dead". I personally know and see what you mean and some if it is true. However, despite the facts being true, the cliche term is also true - "evolve or die". It's not just a producers job or companies job to just create great content or put out scenes, it's also the job of the company to properly monetize or accept that things have changed - and a business strategy has to stay fluid and change with the times.

Porn is not dead, it's just not the business of the past. You had a good run, and retired...consider yourself lucky. No need to beat a dead horse about how the industry is dead, many are still in the game fighting to monetize with what they have.

i hope you have been long on this site and they made them some money with you by the coin-mining you did for them.

This is an outstanding post really.

The music industry is really complicated and everyone has their hand taking a cut of the money. The music industry was the first to get slammed by technology. The record companies should have got together and created a online music platform. Instead they let Apple do it, and then that was quickly followed by Spotify, Google, and Amazon. So now musicians are making even less.

The porn industry is not dead. It's evolved. We used to slap shit together with filler content and made money. I remember spending a few days making a website based around purchased filler content, launching it at 10am, and by 2PM having forty sales and the only marketing done was making a single announcement here on GFY. The industry has changed. We used to slap shit together and frankly we sold a shitty product. People bought it because it was new and novel; They could look at porn for the first time ever without having to leave their house. New people were coming online for the first time every day. That's over with, and the consumer wants so much more.

I know people are still making money online. I have customers at YNOT Mail who send out an email to their customer base and make dozens if not hundreds of sales each time.

The movie and tv industry is going through similar changes. I don't have the traditional cable company bringing me TV; I do it all online. Same with movies.

you seem to forget that google is also just earning a fraction of what the people make that advertise there.

let´s assume 10% - than you know already that only the google advertisers makes 10 times more than google.

also google is just a big player with around 95 billion in adrevenues. but the total spend in online ads is 311 billion per year. and google does not have any revenue from the pornmarket.

as always you are mixing apples and pears and don´t even realize it.

actually i also doubt this number of 128 billion i would rather guess around 50 billion worldwide what is made WITH porn (not on selling porn)

so you really think the music industry makes less now because people get music for free or very cheap?

NOPE !!!





what you see here is that they are indeed loosing in physical revenue and also pay per download is on the way down.

regarding paul´s theory they should close.
but how fits in paul´s theory that their overall revenue is rising?

i think you can´t count that from the domain-cost revenue.

there are many domain grabbers holding a huge number of them and as we all know from our own portfolio 50-70% of all domains are not even online.

to make it short. paul thinks that TV killed the cinema - and this is right. but TV did not kill the movie industry - it made it actually bigger.

what paul does not get is that people do not have to pay for porn if you want to make money with porn.

he doesn't understand the market - just as little as he doesn't understand any market. also behind google were a few dreamers for him at that time who will be washed away by the market sooner or later (that's what many thought, by the way).

google has shown us all how to become the biggest company in the world with a product for which customers pay absolutely nothing.

but that's too abstract for paul and that's why he just tells his version of the truth

thommy knows more about the music industry than I do - but from my experience 20-30 years ago, I can only say that besides selling tapes at concerts, there was no way of monetizing your music unless you were one of the 0,0001% of bands that managed to get a record deal.

But to have a proper recording, you had to book a studio and even the cheap ones cost you a few hundred bucks per day.

Nowadays you can record in professional quality for peanuts at home and put it on various platforms where you can build your own audience.

Things we didn't even dream of in 1991 when I started my first band.

But no good deed goes unpunished, this is also how we got Justin Bieber.

You can go from song idea to distribution all from home these days. There are self service products that help you get on Apple Music, Spotify and all the other marketplaces / streaming platforms.

There are people who make money from streaming, it's not much but it's more than they used to make selling cassettes at gigs.

It wasn't that much better in the past - read an interview with Christian Bruhn (legendary German composer) last week and he was asked if a certain single (that sold a million times) also made him a millionaire.

His reply: As a composer he got 0.04 Deutschmark per copy = 4000 Deutschmark in total (2000 Euro).

At that time (1965) that bought you almost a VW Beetle (about 5000 Deutschmark) - but still kind of sad for 1 million records sold.


Update - just checked this: https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/201...ices-pay-2018/

1 million plays on Spotify pay about $4000 - but unlike a record it pays everytime someone listens to your song.

and there are more platforms than just Spotify.

I didn't say anything about how often you are on or offline, socially or otherwise.

Yes, GFY is a fun and interesting place to hang out.

Maybe, sure, but at least I don't post miserable racist comments like you do.


Where did I claim that I have more going on? I work from home and enjoy Marvel movies, thats about it. Please post a link to where I claim anything else to backup your claim, thank you.

It doesn't. GFY serves mostly to challenge my own beliefs and as a forum to participate in spirited discussions.


I check GFY about 5 times a day. I'll scan the subject titles and post comments or start a new thread. I can type at about 120 words a minute, no exaggeration. Maybe total time here is about 15 minutes a day, unless there's something really interesting going on then maybe 30 minutes a day?

On a related note, you've retired from adult, right? Why are you still here?

True but lets face it - he deserves to be bitched out.

YES!!! One day it will come.



Stalk much?

You misunderstood what I said.... I never said the music industry is making less money. It's making more, but not in the traditional way the music industry has been making money for decades.

The music industry isn't really what we think it is. We tend to think a rock star has a hit record and they are instantly millionaires and never have to work again. It's much more complicated than that. It's amazing really.

The artist usually gets about 6% of the sales of their album, while the record label gets 30%. The rest of the money goes to the producer, the songwriter, distributor, manufacturing, and another whopping 30% for the retailer. The artist is lucky if they get fifty cents on every album sold. (Before MP3s artists used to make more like $1 per album.) Then factor in the artist has a manager and a personal assistant they employ, a driver, and security.

Concerts aren't much better. They make a lot of money, but artists themselves pick up a lot of expenses on the road. Food, housing, and transportation on the road are paid for by the artists. I've read autobiographies about Queen, Van Halen, Pat Benatar, and the Cherry Pie girl (She was involved with Warrant and a few other bands) and they go on tour and when they return home they discover they spent more money on the road than they made...

It's gotten worse for the artists these days because there are more hands in the pie. Before you had a long list of people who had were getting a piece of the pie, but now they have to factor in new tech companies like Apple, Spotify, Google Music, and Amazon Music. They now get a cut of the music too. Then factor in there is a lot more music than there was twenty years ago. Twenty years ago you had to pony up big bucks for studio time, sound engineers, producers, etc... Now we have teenagers who write and produce their own music, edit it, and then release slick videos - all on their own.

The music industry is making more money over all, but the artists are making less. If you think about it, it's similar to our industry.

actually the composers lived and still live from performing rights

That would be another good mathematics for Paul Einstein.

In the 70s it was for the composer in licence fees like 3 German marks per minute, if his song was played in a nationwide radio station.

Paul would now calculate the following for you:

4000 euro / 1.000.000 = 0,004

SEE? DEAD!

am i right paul ?

ha - i just noticed that I copied a math error from the original interview

1,000,000 times 0.04 = 40,000

same the porn industry

i know that believe me.

but the artist was ALWAYS the idiot - already in the 70s because he could not participate on the royalties what is the biggest part in this pott.

they always had to make their money with live performance and that stuff.
but today they also can do that virtually by uploading a clip to youtube or any other
advertising financed portal.

if he is better than others he makes good money - if not he won´t.

and all that is similar to the pussy biz.
we don´t do anything else then youtube - actually youtube started that and youporn was just an adaption but it works equally.

now youtube makes approximately 10 billion in adrevenue per year now (in 2010 it was 1 billion). they have around 1 billion visitors per month and is the biggest portal of all.

pornhub ALONE have 2,5 billion visitors per month and is 2,5 times bigger than youtube.
counting only the 10 biggest tubesites together we are talking about 10 billion users per month (or 10 times more than youtube).

it is impossible to count the smaller tubes but i am pretty sure that they also deliver a few billion together per month.

so we are talking here from a number of visitors in total that is like 20 times bigger than youtube and even when all of them together just make the triple of youtube we are still only talking about adrevenue and not sales revenue.

paul comes from a time when internet users know each other personally by name. he can not imagine this numbers we are talking about today.

Best Ever

Point!

He's the alt-right hate fake nic troll Mark, just in case you didn't know... I've had this nic of his blocked over a year now.

Perhaps - I try not to block unless absolutely necessary.

Honestly, at this point, i think he is just full blown senile. There is no way someone with a healthy mind can keep arguing non-sense like he is.

SilentKnight did cool sites.

A lot of the trailblazers in online adult are artists first.

As the landscape changed, I adapted, so I didn't die. But that doesn't mean I totally embrace the changes.

As a community and an industry and a client pool, we apparently decided that we value knowing what a postback is over creative vision. We apparently decided to value faking like a business is "woman-run" and feminist over authentic presentation and message. We apparently decided treating content like widgets should be valued over creating in a way which means something. Etc.

Eventually, if enough cam girls learn what a postback, maybe those skills won't be valued either. Or maybe deep fakes will also make the talent less relevant.

So, how about you don't pick details of your skill set to mock others about and they don't pick areas you know less about and act like jerks?

Just curious, and totally fine if you prefer to be private, but where are your degrees from?

I was being sarcastic/ironic in that remark about the music industry.

I know that the porn industry isn't dead, I know that to survive in it you have to adapt. But I also know that turnovers in the porn industry are low, that times are getting increasingly harder, but a few deny all that and try to sell a scenario that it's never been so good.

As fot porn being dead, I've never said that. In fact I say the opposite, never before have so many, so often and with greater choices been able to watch porn. They just don't pay for it as much as they used to. So is the industry declining in revenue and earnings? If AK is to be believed in things like domain registrations. Well at a time when domains are cheap he maintains we spend $1 billion. Is that 10$ of our turnover or even 5%. That's turnover not profit. That's a fortune.

Today great content is free to the viewer. That's how the industry changed.

it have not that much to do with nice sites or artist made sites.
it have to do with knowing WHO is bringing the customers today and focus on their needs.

the big change we saw is mainly driven by specialization. very few program owners are directly buying traffic because they are focused on the product and not on selling it.
they never sold it - they used webmasters who are mostly without skills in selling as they are focused on traffic generation.

this can work as long as there is nobody who is better in selling a product. and this is what mainly happend. today the sales market is driven by 100 thousands - if not millions - of mediabuyers. and they can do this job because new of tools and spezializing in marketing knowledge.

all this tools are working on the simple idea of a unique clickid. and if i tell you that i invented the clickid in 2008 you might say I sound arrogant - but it is a fact - if you don´t believe me ask andy wullmer from SGM/Trafficpartner - they where the first implementing it for me in 2009.

a few years later the first public software solutions, based on clickid, went into the market. the most knowing is voluum what was 2017 number 2 of europe´s fastest growing companies.

understanding and using the options of a tracker compared with knowledge about advertising made it possible that people who do not have a clue how to make a website or a clue how to generate traffic.
but it would not make any sense for them if they pay the same for the traffic a webmaster would get when he market it by himself and receive the same result.

so they MUST be able to make more out of this traffic and than everybody wins.

if you go to an exhibition today you will find very few program owners there but hundreds
of affiliate programs what have all under one roof (except an own program). those are the "new webmasters" for the program owners and THEY are the ones working with the media buyers.

but for some reasons you will not find traditional pron products there and the main reason is that they do not know how to work with clickids and postback or working with fullservice payment solutions what do not have this solutions.

so actually what happens is that the mediabuyers are buying the clicks from the tubes and send it to dating, livecam, enhancement and other products that offering all this possibilities.

I own an adnetwork and I can see every day who brings us the money and what they really need to make this trafficbuys profitable. and i also see to where they send the traffic. these are not the traditional porn sites as they are out of their focus. they are simply not present in all this wide-range affiliate programs because they don´t use the technical basics of a modern affiliate market.

many of these buyers are asking me for alternatives and are even interested in long term income on revenue share. but there are only a few i can recommend them and NONE of them is a traditional paysite (except 1 in germany that works this way and gets traffic and memberships from our network).

believe me - I know what I am talking about because before I made the adnetwork i was running a huge member site in the german market for many many years. but even when I have the skills to do both I do not have the time and this is why i was focusing on something that I did all my life and really know the very best.
and this decision was the right one because even after 7 years as trafficnetwork we are still growing in high 2-digit % every year.

if paul´s idea would have a basic, the first thing that would die is the advertising market.

he only tried to explain you that even the market with domainnames is bigger then ever.
and a domainname is the cheapest in the whole biz.

he did not talk about hosting, serveradministration and many other PURE TECHNICAL costs that come with it, because here we would be already in a quite huge 2-digit number of billions.

ALL that money is somehow done with porn users. and it does not even include any advertisement costs, content or profit yet.

you are blind for the reality because the reality would prove how blind you are. and as you know that deep insight you hate yourself for not doing it better. and as you do not want to hate yourself you hate the ones that did it.