Just received this e-mail from DutchBilling doesn't look good for them - GoFuckYourself.com

RAM · 05-02-2003, 08:03 AM

Dear DutchBilling customer,

As you have noticed, we have suspended our last payment
run of April 28th for all merchants and Resellers
of DutchBilling.

This is a result of a thorough investigation within our
Risk Department that has found a large number of
credit card transactions to be fraudulent. Since DutchBilling
is providing transactions for Internet websites,
fraud does occur, since authenticity of the credit card
holder is not fully possible.

In the last couple of weeks we have seen an huge
increase of fraudulent transactions, particulary made
through DutchBilling resellers. To protect the business
interest of all persons involved and our valuable banking
relationships, we have decided to suspend all payments
to our customers.

However, after internal discussions, the management of
DutchBilling has decided the following:

1. All merchants and linkers will be paid on Monday
May 5th, which includes the payment of April 28th.
Merchants and linkers will continue to receive their
weekly payments. Merchants and linkers can opt
for biweekly or for a payment every 4 weeks in the
DutchBilling Control Center.

2. All resellers will be paid every four weeks from
now on. The first reseller payment will be on
Monday May 19th. Resellers cannot opt for
a weekly or biweekly payment.

3. Starting June 1st 2003, we will introduce a new
rate system, due to the increase of cost of
anti-fraud solutions for our merchants.
DutchBilling will increase the staff of its
Risk Management department in the month
of May.

a. The new rate will be 18% for all credit card
and check transactions;

b. The holdback will be increased to 20% of
the total volume, to be paid back 26 weeks
as a rolling reserve;

c. The maximum percentage of resellers will
be lowered to 50%.

4. Starting June 1st 2003, we will introduce a new
reseller system where the merchant will be liable
for the resellers payments, chargebacks and
refunds.

That means that the merchant can approve
or decline resellers through the DutchBilling
Control Center. Once the reseller is approved
by the merchant, the reseller gets paid by
DutchBilling.

However, negative invoices from resellers (due
to excessive amount of chargebacks and credits)
will be directly deducted from the merchants
payments or holdback.

If you have any questions about these decisions,
please don't hesitate to contact us.

We appreciate your business,
Yours Truly

DutchBilling Management

AmeliaG · 05-02-2003, 09:43 AM

Thank you so much for posting this. I was just about to start promoting one of their sites.

--Amelia

pr0 · 05-02-2003, 09:46 AM

there is so much $ to be made without fraud......it amazes me that these punks out there insist on destroying the industry...

rowan · 05-02-2003, 09:50 AM

RAM - have a look at www.verotel.com . Looks kinda familiar, doesn't it? Even some of the wording is identical. I've heard mention that dutchbilling is just a verotel reseller - if so, then why not skip the middle man?

Then again, perhaps it's just another frontend for verza...

UnseenWorld · 05-02-2003, 09:57 AM

I got hit for a $3500 chargeback on a content sale recently. The credit card companies need to do something to make non-face to face sales safer.

What a lot of webmasters haven't realized (and may be waking up to now) is that we are not the customers of the credit card companies, the cardholders are. We are vendors, and we get treated accordingly.

RAM · 05-02-2003, 10:00 AM

I would like to know what this big wave of fraud is they just now got hit with.

How do you like the line about to protect the business:

To protect the business
interest of all persons involved and our valuable banking
relationships, we have decided to suspend all payments
to our customers.

Kimmykim · 05-02-2003, 10:06 AM

Hahaha, Visa Intl laying the smackdown on someone...

andi_germany · 05-02-2003, 10:18 AM

I don't see a big problem here. They are simply protecting the business.

As they stated it's mainly from resellers that means that a lot of people sign up with fake credit cards to get the quick referrer buck.

BVF · 05-02-2003, 10:22 AM

damn man, one day you won't be able to even process unless you have ccbill....

If Dutchbilling......a company WAY offshore, has to suspend payments, then you know that shit has hit the fan.....

I'm sure glad I didn't switch to dutchbilling or even Globill...I think Globill will be next....

This is truly sad

AmeliaG · 05-02-2003, 10:24 AM

I've actually noticed an increase in chargebacks recently on some of the affiliate programs I participate in (i.e. not my own Spooky Cash Globill program but ones I promote for other people in with my stuff) and the sites are still good, but it seems like maybe there are more credits/returns/chargebacks than I usually see. Not that I've done a spreadsheet on it, just my pre-coffee perception this morning.

RAM · 05-02-2003, 10:51 AM

How can afford to use a billing company with these kind of rates:

a. The new rate will be 18% for all credit card
and check transactions;

b. The holdback will be increased to 20% of
the total volume, to be paid back 26 weeks
as a rolling reserve;

SykkBoy · 05-02-2003, 12:00 PM

shit, I just referred some people over to them too.....

I think verotel, dutchbill and dutchbilling are all the same, but not 100% sure.....

andi_germany · 05-02-2003, 12:20 PM

I wonder if this kind of thing is a deliberate act. How much does it take for the competition to set up sites sign up with a biller and cause them chargebacks?

I think it is legitimate that a company suspends payments for a week to check who is defrauting them.

I think this is a clear statement at least. I have seen other companies just suspending payments without any kind of notice or statement.

05-02-2003, 08:03 AM	#1
RAM They're all hookers, but mom! Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Right now Shelby Twp MI Posts: 7,047	Just received this e-mail from DutchBilling doesn't look good for them Dear DutchBilling customer, As you have noticed, we have suspended our last payment run of April 28th for all merchants and Resellers of DutchBilling. This is a result of a thorough investigation within our Risk Department that has found a large number of credit card transactions to be fraudulent. Since DutchBilling is providing transactions for Internet websites, fraud does occur, since authenticity of the credit card holder is not fully possible. In the last couple of weeks we have seen an huge increase of fraudulent transactions, particulary made through DutchBilling resellers. To protect the business interest of all persons involved and our valuable banking relationships, we have decided to suspend all payments to our customers. However, after internal discussions, the management of DutchBilling has decided the following: 1. All merchants and linkers will be paid on Monday May 5th, which includes the payment of April 28th. Merchants and linkers will continue to receive their weekly payments. Merchants and linkers can opt for biweekly or for a payment every 4 weeks in the DutchBilling Control Center. 2. All resellers will be paid every four weeks from now on. The first reseller payment will be on Monday May 19th. Resellers cannot opt for a weekly or biweekly payment. 3. Starting June 1st 2003, we will introduce a new rate system, due to the increase of cost of anti-fraud solutions for our merchants. DutchBilling will increase the staff of its Risk Management department in the month of May. a. The new rate will be 18% for all credit card and check transactions; b. The holdback will be increased to 20% of the total volume, to be paid back 26 weeks as a rolling reserve; c. The maximum percentage of resellers will be lowered to 50%. 4. Starting June 1st 2003, we will introduce a new reseller system where the merchant will be liable for the resellers payments, chargebacks and refunds. That means that the merchant can approve or decline resellers through the DutchBilling Control Center. Once the reseller is approved by the merchant, the reseller gets paid by DutchBilling. However, negative invoices from resellers (due to excessive amount of chargebacks and credits) will be directly deducted from the merchants payments or holdback. If you have any questions about these decisions, please don't hesitate to contact us. We appreciate your business, Yours Truly DutchBilling Management __________________ RAM Fucking Machines are like CASH MACHINES See RAM on these quality sites!! Rightofftheboat.com EuroBrideTryouts.com

05-02-2003, 09:43 AM	#2
AmeliaG Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,568	Thank you so much for posting this. I was just about to start promoting one of their sites. --Amelia __________________ GFY Hall of Famer AltStar Hall of Famer Blue Blood's SpookyCash.com Babe photography portfolio

05-02-2003, 09:46 AM	#3
pr0 rockin tha trailerpark Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: ~Coastal~ Posts: 23,088	there is so much $ to be made without fraud......it amazes me that these punks out there insist on destroying the industry... __________________ __________ Loadedca$h - get sum! - Revengebucks - mmm rebills! - webair (gotz sErVrz)

05-02-2003, 09:57 AM	#5
UnseenWorld Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Portland, OR, USA Posts: 5,279	I got hit for a $3500 chargeback on a content sale recently. The credit card companies need to do something to make non-face to face sales safer. What a lot of webmasters haven't realized (and may be waking up to now) is that we are not the customers of the credit card companies, the cardholders are. We are vendors, and we get treated accordingly. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

05-02-2003, 10:00 AM	#6
RAM They're all hookers, but mom! Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Right now Shelby Twp MI Posts: 7,047	I would like to know what this big wave of fraud is they just now got hit with. How do you like the line about to protect the business: To protect the business interest of all persons involved and our valuable banking relationships, we have decided to suspend all payments to our customers. __________________ RAM Fucking Machines are like CASH MACHINES See RAM on these quality sites!! Rightofftheboat.com EuroBrideTryouts.com

05-02-2003, 09:50 AM	#4
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	RAM - have a look at www.verotel.com . Looks kinda familiar, doesn't it? Even some of the wording is identical. I've heard mention that dutchbilling is just a verotel reseller - if so, then why not skip the middle man? Then again, perhaps it's just another frontend for verza...

05-02-2003, 10:06 AM	#7
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Hahaha, Visa Intl laying the smackdown on someone...

05-02-2003, 10:18 AM	#8
andi_germany Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 768	I don't see a big problem here. They are simply protecting the business. As they stated it's mainly from resellers that means that a lot of people sign up with fake credit cards to get the quick referrer buck.

05-02-2003, 10:22 AM	#9
BVF Black Vagina Finder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Midwest Posts: 13,975	damn man, one day you won't be able to even process unless you have ccbill.... If Dutchbilling......a company WAY offshore, has to suspend payments, then you know that shit has hit the fan..... I'm sure glad I didn't switch to dutchbilling or even Globill...I think Globill will be next.... This is truly sad __________________ Black Pussy Click On Mr Cosby..CCbill, 60/40, 136 FHG's....The Cos Loves Black Ghetto Pussy!!

05-02-2003, 10:24 AM	#10
AmeliaG Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,568	I've actually noticed an increase in chargebacks recently on some of the affiliate programs I participate in (i.e. not my own Spooky Cash Globill program but ones I promote for other people in with my stuff) and the sites are still good, but it seems like maybe there are more credits/returns/chargebacks than I usually see. Not that I've done a spreadsheet on it, just my pre-coffee perception this morning. __________________ GFY Hall of Famer AltStar Hall of Famer Blue Blood's SpookyCash.com Babe photography portfolio

05-02-2003, 10:51 AM	#11
RAM They're all hookers, but mom! Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Right now Shelby Twp MI Posts: 7,047	How can afford to use a billing company with these kind of rates: a. The new rate will be 18% for all credit card and check transactions; b. The holdback will be increased to 20% of the total volume, to be paid back 26 weeks as a rolling reserve; __________________ RAM Fucking Machines are like CASH MACHINES See RAM on these quality sites!! Rightofftheboat.com EuroBrideTryouts.com

05-02-2003, 12:00 PM	#12
SykkBoy Jesus loves bacon Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sin City, Motherfucker Posts: 19,969	shit, I just referred some people over to them too..... I think verotel, dutchbill and dutchbilling are all the same, but not 100% sure..... __________________ Support my new movie “The Second Coming”

05-02-2003, 12:20 PM	#13
andi_germany Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 768	I wonder if this kind of thing is a deliberate act. How much does it take for the competition to set up sites sign up with a biller and cause them chargebacks? I think it is legitimate that a company suspends payments for a week to check who is defrauting them. I think this is a clear statement at least. I have seen other companies just suspending payments without any kind of notice or statement.