Business Will Big Cam Companies Offer VR In The Future?

[incredibleworkethic]

Curious! As VR becomes more popular, imagine sitting there with a headset "with the cam girl".

The other thread touched on VR cams so I just wanted to find out what you guys thought or know?

Regular cams will always be good but VR might be interesting ...

[pimpmaster9000]

Upload is a problem...few girls have the necessary upload...

[NewNick]

They will, but not for a few years.

[C H R I S]

Cam4VR?

8char

[incredibleworkethic]

Just registered a domain, guess better be early than late!

[OneMillionGirls]

i hope so too

[Matt 26z]

Originally Posted by incredibleworkethic

Curious! As VR becomes more popular

VR is almost dead. Anything left of it is for the occasional novelty factor rather than daily use.

The potential seemed to be there in 2015 and 2016, but the consumer excitement fizzled out in 2017 as hype wore thin and the actual content was expected to carry the tech moving forward, but was unable to.

I put a big part of the blame on YouTube's failure to monetize VR videos. The people capable of creating decent content for it aren't going to do it when there is no money to be made at the most likely venue for it.

....... And thus a problem for XXX VR as few people have the headsets.

[hausarzt]

I think argumented reality will be the next big thing.
Maybe they will call it VR ("hoverboards") when the real VR is dead once.

[sadiedazzle]

I don't know what you're taking about. We are rocking with https://www.stockingsvr.com. Customers love the experience.

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

VR is almost dead. Anything left of it is for the occasional novelty factor rather than daily use.

The potential seemed to be there in 2015 and 2016, but the consumer excitement fizzled out in 2017 as hype wore thin and the actual content was expected to carry the tech moving forward, but was unable to.

I put a big part of the blame on YouTube's failure to monetize VR videos. The people capable of creating decent content for it aren't going to do it when there is no money to be made at the most likely venue for it.

....... And thus a problem for XXX VR as few people have the headsets.

[kane]

Originally Posted by sadiedazzle

I don't know what you're taking about. We are rocking with https://www.stockingsvr.com. Customers love the experience.

You guys make some nice content.

[kane]

We will likely have VR streaming webcams at some point in the near future. Bandwidth may be a problem for those living in areas where upload speeds are still a little on the slow side, but I wouldn't be shocked if we start seeing some webcam live VR feeds popping up in the next few years.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by sadiedazzle

I don't know what you're taking about. We are rocking with https://www.stockingsvr.com. Customers love the experience.

He's an alt-right nic on GFY that has no knowledge or expertise about the adult industry whatsoever. Ignore him

[Barry-xlovecam]

I think VR webcams happen it will for reason of economic value.
That is not there now.

[Konda]

How can the guy type to the girl if he wears a headset?

Also many cam girls are in third world countries where they don't have enough bandwidth to make it work.

It won't get popular, maybe AR in the feature, but VR no, it's too small of a niche

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by hausarzt

I think argumented reality will be the next big thing.
Maybe they will call it VR ("hoverboards") when the real VR is dead once.

augmented
ɔːɡˈmɛntɪd/Submit
adjective
1.
having been made greater in size or value.
"augmented pensions for those retiring at 65"

There's already such thing as AR on mobile phones. But probably in future with some sort of glasses with enhanced batteries (unlike now), internet connection and stronger CPUs, AR might become a widespread thing. Something like Google glasses were intended to be. Let's wait and see.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Konda

How can the guy type to the girl if he wears a headset?

Also many cam girls are in third world countries where they don't have enough bandwidth to make it work.

It won't get popular, maybe AR in the feature, but VR no, it's too small of a niche

Romania has cheap fiber internet with much higher bandwidth than most locations in the USA. That statement may be true in Moldova or some backward county in Eastern Europe. If you ever wondered why so much of the cam model pool is located in Romania, Bucharest and Constanta, that is one primary reason why.

Ever heard of voice to text? They have that now in chats. Voice chat (as opposed to videoconferencing) has been around for years.

Will guys (others) pay for immersive VR sex? Probably, but I think they will be few in number. As a global market metric VR webcams may not be that viable. IMO anyway -- we will see I guess.

5G service is also coming to mobile devices -- that may be a growth factor too on the consumer end.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Konda

How can the guy type to the girl if he wears a headset?

Also many cam girls are in third world countries where they don't have enough bandwidth to make it work.

It won't get popular, maybe AR in the feature, but VR no, it's too small of a niche

In a perfect world, you wouldn't type, you would talk. The camgirl would have a VR webcam and the guy would wear his viewer with a microphone. I supposed he could have a cam too if they wanted to do cam to cam type stuff. He could speak directly to her.

[CamsEtc]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

Upload is a problem...few girls have the necessary upload...

not an issue in Romania we've got upload to burn

[beavr]

I've talked to a few big cams. They seem to be very reluctant about it. AliceX who have been doing it for quite a while is no longer operating VR

[k0nr4d]

I saw a VR webcam setup at the prague show but it's 1/4th of the puzzle. You need a player for it on the client end that supports rtc or hls (with hls having mega lag), you need transcoding on the server end (and see how much resources it takes to transcode even a single 3k or 4k video stream at once), etc.

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by CamsEtc

not an issue in Romania we've got upload to burn

streaming vr at 720p takes around 50mbps...4K would be 10x that...now the average US household has like 10mbps upload...this will be a problem because for the tech to take off you would have to have lots of models from around the world and not just from some parts of the world...also streaming for a few seconds at 50mbps is one thing, but streaming continuously for a longer period of time, without lag or choppy video is completely another...this is not taking in to account the logistics of the VR platform that would have to process 100-s of models streaming at once...

maybe they will solve it with better compression but for now the infrastructure is simply not up to par...

[lock]

When bandwidth isn't the priority of internet billing. When TB's a month is a possibility in every lounge room you will.

[Paul Markham]

If no one is doing by now. It's not likely to happen.

[INever]

I know someone who claims he's sold about 1000 VR cock machines. Camgirls will wear these strap ons. Haven't seen the demos but he's at some of the VR shows. 1000 x $300(?guessing) is $300,000 so the margins on hardware are there....

[Barry-xlovecam]

I think the overall concept of total immersion (or *virtual* reality) is good.
Current economic reality is the problem.
I liked cam4's emulation on a PC or mobile device that is currently in use -- not the real thing *VR* but something economically marketable right now.

[k0nr4d]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

streaming vr at 720p takes around 50mbps

What? Streaming at 720p wouldn't even take 5mbits let alone 50

[Hannes]

they will, I think most industries will start with VR eventually

[celandina]

VR for porn ? Same as 3D or "Smelorama" in movies....A fad

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

What? Streaming at 720p wouldn't even take 5mbits let alone 50

I was reading an article about VR gaming they describe it here:

ARRIS Gives Us a Hint of the Bandwidth Requirements for VR - The Online Reporter

I do not claim to be an expert on VR but I do not think 5mbps will cut it...

[vidvicious]

Originally Posted by incredibleworkethic

Curious! As VR becomes more popular, imagine sitting there with a headset "with the cam girl".

The other thread touched on VR cams so I just wanted to find out what you guys thought or know?

Regular cams will always be good but VR might be interesting ...

We at Terpon have answered that need .. with a 3K 3d-VR live streaming webcam specially designed (plug and play) for webcam models .. for more information visit Terpon VR Webcams - Virtual Reality Cam Shows - Cameras - 4K 3D VR - Terpon.com

We also have a 4K camera ...

[vidvicious]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

streaming vr at 720p takes around 50mbps...4K would be 10x that...now the average US household has like 10mbps upload...this will be a problem because for the tech to take off you would have to have lots of models from around the world and not just from some parts of the world...also streaming for a few seconds at 50mbps is one thing, but streaming continuously for a longer period of time, without lag or choppy video is completely another...this is not taking in to account the logistics of the VR platform that would have to process 100-s of models streaming at once...

maybe they will solve it with better compression but for now the infrastructure is simply not up to par...

We are able to stream 3K VR with 5 mbs .. and our 4K camera streams with 10 mbs

Terpon VR Webcams - Virtual Reality Cam Shows - Cameras - 4K 3D VR - Terpon.com

[vidvicious]

Originally Posted by kane

We will likely have VR streaming webcams at some point in the near future. Bandwidth may be a problem for those living in areas where upload speeds are still a little on the slow side, but I wouldn't be shocked if we start seeing some webcam live VR feeds popping up in the next few years.

Earlier then that .. already some Platforms have started intergrading a VR player .. some will be with the aid of Apps while others I know of have already a working model in HTML5... but your right only time will tell .. VR live streaming cams world wide is coming as quickly as this christmas.

Terpon is already started delivery of it's 3K Hermes Webcams to studio, platforms, software developers and independent models .. get ready for the future in Camming

Terpon VR Webcams - Virtual Reality Cam Shows - Cameras - 4K 3D VR - Terpon.com

[JC Artonne]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

I saw a VR webcam setup at the prague show but it's 1/4th of the puzzle. You need a player for it on the client end that supports rtc or hls (with hls having mega lag), you need transcoding on the server end (and see how much resources it takes to transcode even a single 3k or 4k video stream at once), etc.

Tanks for noticing our cameras ;)

Several viewers exist (even pure HTML5), encoding is working well, we can push on 3 to 5mbps 3K good quality videos, and are now at final test phase of a server solution (not only for VR) that reduce latency to almost nothing in bidirectional communication (time for the signal to travel) - This has already approved in UK for remote surgery!

And all of that works on any i5-i7 computer as long you can plug the USB3 (no need of special software), and can go through 4G without any issue.

All of that very soon available on several cam sites.

Stay tune!

[JC Artonne]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

streaming vr at 720p takes around 50mbps...4K would be 10x that...now the average US household has like 10mbps upload...this will be a problem because for the tech to take off you would have to have lots of models from around the world and not just from some parts of the world...also streaming for a few seconds at 50mbps is one thing, but streaming continuously for a longer period of time, without lag or choppy video is completely another...this is not taking in to account the logistics of the VR platform that would have to process 100-s of models streaming at once...

maybe they will solve it with better compression but for now the infrastructure is simply not up to par...

3 to 5mbps is working perfectly for 3k

[kane]

Originally Posted by vidvicious

Earlier then that .. already some Platforms have started intergrading a VR player .. some will be with the aid of Apps while others I know of have already a working model in HTML5... but your right only time will tell .. VR live streaming cams world wide is coming as quickly as this christmas.

Terpon is already started delivery of it's 3K Hermes Webcams to studio, platforms, software developers and independent models .. get ready for the future in Camming

Terpon VR Webcams - Virtual Reality Cam Shows - Cameras - 4K 3D VR - Terpon.com

Very cool stuff. Thanks for the info.

[DiveAsia]

I think it is in it's infancy and will take off when it becomes more affordable for the average consumer.
I also see more people asking me to help them promote their VR sites via twitter. Which I am happy to do as many of my followers are from Japan and always into the latest tech.

[vidvicious]

Originally Posted by DiveAsia

I think it is in it's infancy and will take off when it becomes more affordable for the average consumer.
I also see more people asking me to help them promote their VR sites via twitter. Which I am happy to do as many of my followers are from Japan and always into the latest tech.

your comment would of been true, last year. VR is actually more engaging then it was a year ago .. and is on a steady rise, as VR headsets are getting more user friendly and less expensive, Oculus announced just yesterday it's newest pair of stand alone Headsets called GO, and is expected to retail at 199$... No need for a mobile phone, so your mom won't be texting you in the middle of a VR session.
For more info on the steady rise in VR over several different platforms, read this article : https://uploadvr.com/vr-social-editorial/

[Barry-xlovecam]

So how much are these VR cameras -- bought outright?

If they are more that twice the price of a good camera currently in use ... good luck selling any.

[vidvicious]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

So how much are these VR cameras -- bought outright?

If they are more that twice the price of a good camera currently in use ... good luck selling any.

Since these cameras are designed specifically for cam models, they are not for sale but rather on a rental basis, allowing for upgrades at no extra cost to the user

[Fat Panda]

vr is fucking stupid and pointless

will never reach terminal velocity

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by vidvicious

Since these cameras are designed specifically for cam models, they are not for sale but rather on a rental basis, allowing for upgrades at no extra cost to the user

That is too costly for models or studios.

You should lease out 100 units for free to establish a new market -- then try to develop your DPaaS (*device platform as a service) business model (rent a VR Cam).

In a few years logitec will offer this, or some other new and well capitalized manufacturer, that can bring VR cams to market at a market competitive price.

I still remember trying to sell Video Realty franchises in 1976 -- you have the same problems *revolutionizing* the existing market. Great idea, unproven and ahead of it's time.

[The Porn Nerd]

Will not happen until all the Baby Boomers die out.
Then, who knows?

[Barry-xlovecam]

That is really a strawman argument.

Buyers want proof of concept.
Cam models are hardly technical traiblazers as a whole.

The rental concept is a bad one for reason of the geographical diversity and the credit worthiness of camgirls and studios. Most camsites use contracted studios and models.

Bringing a new product to a market like adult webcams is not about renting hardware. Webcam sites do not usually run studios for legal reasons.

[JC Artonne]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

That is really a strawman argument.

Buyers want proof of concept.
Cam models are hardly technical traiblazers as a whole.

The rental concept is a bad one for reason of the geographical diversity and the credit worthiness of camgirls and studios. Most camsites use contracted studios and models.

Bringing a new product to a market like adult webcams is not about renting hardware. Webcam sites do not usually run studios for legal reasons.

Camera is USB3 plug-and-play, no need of a special software... By the way many platforms are already integrating our technology. (I hope you understand we are not a platform) And more models are a lot smarter you can imagine, they deserve respect.

Thanks for worrying for us, but that's Ok. We are taking guaranties when the model can't show a minimum of one year payout. Cameras are locked if not paid, and we anticipate the fact that we will lose some of them... That's part of any business.

Geographical dissemination has also been taken in consideration and we have local partners and perfect 3PL companies for that too. Payment, you have many ways including very cheap operating costs and international solution like Paxum and others.

About legal issues, again you have to understand we are not a platform, therefor we are not exposed to the content rating rules, nor age verification. We will still demand proof to models that they are major, as we prefer to be more cautious than necessary and we do not want to encourage any illegal practices.

Anyway, Barry it is our money we are risking and not yours... ;)

If we are right it will help the industry to move to next step and if we are wrong yo uwill lose nothing. That's pretty a good deal.

I am always ready for constructive ideas.

[JC Artonne]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

That is too costly for models or studios.

You should lease out 100 units for free to establish a new market -- then try to develop your DPaaS (*device platform as a service) business model (rent a VR Cam).

In a few years logitec will offer this, or some other new and well capitalized manufacturer, that can bring VR cams to market at a market competitive price.

I still remember trying to sell Video Realty franchises in 1976 -- you have the same problems *revolutionizing* the existing market. Great idea, unproven and ahead of it's time.

This one is constructive, thanks: "You should lease out 100 units for free to establish a new market ".

In fact, the critical mass is higher. We are giving away 3,000 of them and already have demand for more from all top studios in Colombia, Romania, and other places.

That said we are already integrating the technology with a majority of the current Livecam Platforms. So, no worries, the models will have a landing for their streaming...

Rental at less than a dollar per day is cheap! I do not understand your cost issue... Do you know that some studios are purchasing cameras that are more than a thousand dollar for their rooms?

A full year of service cost $360, it includes a 24/7 support, replacement of the camera if it is broken, replacement of the camera any time a new one is available to keep you on top of the league, etc.

If you buy a good Logitech, not the cheap $50 that gives shitty quality, you will have to pay $129 to $199 + taxes. And, it is more expensive in many countries where models are usually operating. But these cameras are not VR... At least you need 2 wide angle lenses (that are more expensive) and 2 sensors. It means price almost double. That's why 360 cameras are most of the time in the range of $300-500 (some good quality a lot more). But 360 degrees without 3D is not really suitable for VR live performance, the purpose is just to compare prices. I know you can find good discounts... That's only because they have not, at least for now, good sale's figures.

Big brands will not go yet to VR webcam, bellow 300,000 units a year (very small for them) they even don't think about producing a device. Then, when it goes to through the distribution network, the MSRP growth up to 3 times (and more in some poor countries). We are direct with same OEM/ODM than them and benefit from same price on the chip procurement, we do not have to fear about price competition. Moreover we are direct to the models!

That said, if new disruptive technology arrive on the market we will not see that as adverse as we will be happy to distribute it. In your last point you are underlining the difficulty to crack this vertical market. If we succeed in establishing this relation we will be in a good position for any devices distribution!

VR is only at the beginning of its Hokey-stick ramp-up, take a look of the last days actuality. Oculus announced its new $199 All-in-One headsets and intent to crack up to 1 billion users. Apple is in the starting-block, Google pushing hard, Samsung and even now Microsoft with series of manufacturer such Acer, HP, etc. to bring their new headsets this winter and early next year. It is a lot closer than you can imagine. What I can tell you is that all models and studios who had chance to try our camera in real have subscribe to get one, and I am even not talking about the face of users who have tried (nice to ee the smile on their face).

As always it will take its time, but keep in mind that we are talking about a few hundreds of millions of people who are on a recurrent basis watching LiveCam (not speaking about the one who really pay for it, which is a small fraction of them). VR will be accessible for free! If only 1 or 2% are jumping in VR to try, it will be already a success in term of business.

I hope it answers your questions, or address your doubts.

Just a question, why are you talking about DPaaS which by the way is "DATA" platform as a service? I do not catch this as it is about security in cloud. If it is an analogy can you explain it to me. Thanks

[Barry-xlovecam]

My mistake too many SaaS acronyms. Pulled that one out of my ass actually -- how is that for candid -- not a bunch of hyperbole and rationalizations and general defensive bullshit.

Rent-to-own is for poor people
I'll just be waiting for your *disruption* (and waiting ...)!!!

[JC Artonne]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

My mistake too many SaaS acronyms. Pulled that one out of my ass actually -- how is that for candid -- not a bunch of hyperbole and rationalizations and general defensive bullshit.

Rent-to-own is for poor people
I'll just be waiting for your *disruption* (and waiting ...)!!!

OK thanks! You are right too many acronyms around!

Just a precision: for us it is not Ren-to-owns, as we are not selling the Hermes at all... It is more like a service that give you access to VR streaming with a guaranty which is to be at anytime up to date! Imagine you buy a f**g camera a few hundreds of $ and a month or two after the new one is available and a lot better... Or just that you don't want to do caming at all...

For us it is not a lost, we are already working on a second-life for our cameras. Associations will distribute cameras to families who have soldiers abroad (about 200,000 for US Army), as well as for long-duration hospitalization for old or young people to have a chance to feel like at home time to time (millions of people), education, and other charity organizations will benefit from our refurbish cameras. And, I will not be hypocritical it will get that out from our balance sheet bottom line ;) Doing good for manies, will make it good for us, that's fair!

Now if you are not in the rich enough to get it we will sale our Artemis version, but be ready to spend a few thousands of dollars as these one are built with top of the league components such as global shutter IMX250 sensors from Sony that are amazing! Or next year, you can also enjoy one of our custom solutions that will be able to go up to 120fps in 48Mpx (totally useless and overkill - my point of view, but we are capable of ;))

[Barry-xlovecam]

well, you are obviously not in the USA
rent-to-own is a parody of furniture and appliance rental companies.
you can rent your PC by the week LMAO $12 a week
if you can't afford one -- rent one.

Webcameras are expensed depreciated assets in the USA
https://www.irs.gov/irm/part1/irm_01-035-006
If the useful life is less than two years -- consult your CPA.
I think it is a 179b first year accelerated depreciation item.

Rentals are a operating expense same year incurred expensing

Personally, I think you will encounter a lot of resistance with that business model (renting hardware) -- feel welcome to prove me wrong -- with real word use and adoption.

Good luck repossessing the equipment when people do not pay -- especially in 2nd and 3rd world counties whose trial courts are *difficult* to deal with.

I would rather sell a good working product for $300 (even as much as $500) per unit -- with a useful life expectancy of 2 - 5 years. Business people will understand that and assume the equipment's deprecation value. If a firmware update is needed then it is free (included in the price) for the first 2 years. After that? IDK, whatever would be fair.

If any lurker wants to jump in to the convo that is a studio operator/owner or a cam model and comment be my guest.

Don't get me wrong, and don't defend the technology nor its product; that part is fine if it can deliver a profitable market segment. Put those free units out and see. Free is not that hard to sell.

[cordoba]

Well Facebook bought the Oculus Rift for $2 billion on the bet that social VR was the future, so...

A lot of extremes on this thread, and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

VR headsets just aren't designed yet for comfortable long sex chat sessions. They also haven't sold half as well as expected. There is some optimism with the Windows Mixed Reality VR headsets that start shipping this Monday. The majority are cheaper and easier to set up than the Rift and the Vive, and the premium Samsung Odyssey has better specs than either. A components manufacturer for the headsets claims that 80 million will be sold by 2020. That's 40 x the current combined sales totals of Rifts, Vives, and PlaystationVRs. And the cheap stand alone headsets that Google and Facebook will launch in the next 6 months could sell even more.

VR cam sites have failed thus far. AliceX have given up completely, and I don't think Cam Soda and VirtualRealCams are currently offering shows. Ela Darling has been claiming that her cam shows have been doing well but I don't know if that's true as she seems to be the go to media darling (excuse the pun) for journos that want to proclaim that VR porn is the future (and is female friendly).

It was a bit silly to rush into VR cams when VR porn is still a tiny niche trying to establish itself. But live chat in virtual and augmented reality is the future, although it might take 10 years or more to get there.

[JC Artonne]

Tanks for your caring.

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

well, you are obviously not in the USA

We are now based USA and know well depreciation rules...

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Personally, I think you will encounter a lot of resistance with that business model (renting hardware) -- feel welcome to prove me wrong -- with real word use and adoption.
...

In fact, we already get almost all top studios and a lot of independents who told us it is great as the understand the benefit to be all time upgraded. They don't want to buy products that become obsolete after a few months.

As you said ;) we will see... soon!

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Good luck repossessing the equipment when people do not pay -- especially in 2nd and 3rd world counties whose trial courts are *difficult* to deal with.

No need going to court, (1) we can remotely disable the devices, (2) models with no history of payout will have to give a guaranty that cover most of the cost, (3) on the total number if it happens it will be part of losses that occurs in many businesses.

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

GI would rather sell a good working product for $300 (even as much as $500) per unit -- with a useful life expectancy of 2 - 5 years.

2 to 5 years are you killing cameras after 2 years will be just good for museum! It will change so fast in VR technology, and it is not about fixing a firmware! We will change cameras at least once a year, maybe even twice the first year.

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

...if it can deliver a profitable market segment...

On our point of view, VR in livecam shouldn't be a segment it is an additional and optional output on the side of the standard stream that should remain. If adoption from top models is good then other will follow, users will get used and we know it is a very emotional content, therefore we think retention will be higher for whose who will try a good VR headset (such new Oculus).

Let see what it will look like in a year from now!