Tasty1

Why invest in weapons while most wars are political.

Germany is now in the hands of Putin. Gave a big mouth about Ukraine and Putin, but when the shit hits the fan, they want to keep getting gas from Russia. Putin has Germany in his pocket, a few german NATO tanks in the Ukrain and Germany will be without energy. What would they choose.... (Germany uber alles). And than they say that Trump helps Putin... yeah right.

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Bladewire

Excellent observation

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BaldBastard

What percentage of German energy is coming from Russia? ( Its not 100% is it )

What did they spend on the pipe? ( That was contracted before recent renewable advances )

And how much is Germany investing in renewable resources now? ( Lotta rubles huh )

And while I know Germany needs that gas today, how long before they can shut it off at anytime.. Germany chooses? 15 years? 10? 5? 3?

And when they don't need it no more, who loses? Germany or Russia?

Answer than one Ruskis.

Paul Markham

Can you tell me if those nations collectively sell to the US more or less than the US sells back and whether that is always going to happen?

Clinton and all the other politicians are guilty of giving away the one thing the US has. A lot of very wealthy consumers, far more than China has.

Stop with the personal attacks and debate the subject.

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Paul Markham

Did the combined trade those countries are doing exceed what America sells back or not? And what is the trend?

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Bladewire

Why are you trying to get everyone to research data for your posts? Because no matter what they say/find you'll disagree just to waste their time

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Bladewire

The subject of this thread has nothing to do with Clinton.

This thread is about Trump pulling us out of TPP and causing Japan to raise beef tariffs 50%.

Stay on topic and tell us how Trump didn't fuck up with Japan trade increasing beef tariffs by 50%.

Sarn

Russia had withdrawn the own army from Europe after WW2. USA army continues occupied Europe and reoccupied new countries. And now provoke conflicts for sell weapons and make money on not rational contracts like sell expensive coal, expensive gas.
Ukraine
????? ????? - Coub - GIFs with sound

Sarn

Russia ruled by USA(Trump) and EU(Gas) now!

Tasty1

So it is help Putin Temporarly, that is good enough for Putin.
At least, when you believe that all energy will come from wind and sun soon.
The SECOND pipeline is being built now.

Germany’s Russian gas pipeline smells funny to America
Angela Merkel says Nord Stream 2 is no one’s business but Germany’s (Germany uber alles)
https://www.economist.com/news/europ...n-gas-pipeline

Sanctions, Russia and Nord Stream 2 | National Review

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BaldBastard

419-3

Looks like Putti backed the wrong guy.

BaldBastard

why can you only link to conspiracy based websites?

"Nord Stream Decides on Second Pipe Tender" - Press Releases - Nord Stream AG

10 billion all up, 1 billion for Germany.

Germany spent $26 billion on renewable energy in 2016

your smart, your Russian, add up the figures, Germany could let go of your gas faster than a sausage fart.

NordStream is Russia's TTP, Merkel has set you up.

Continue with the bravos.

Sarn

Hungary & Gazprom agree gas supplies via Turkish Stream pipeline
https://www.rt.com/business/395370-h...urkish-stream/

Tasty1

Isn't that the price of the pipeline, not what goes trough it.

"Nord Stream I operated at 80 percent of delivery capacity in 2016

Utilisation of the existing Nord Stream pipeline has increased every year since it opened in 2011, reaching 80 percent of its total transportation capacity in 2016. Around 43.8 billion cubic metres (bcm) of natural gas was delivered to EU consumers during the year – enough to supply over 20 million households."

Some lies that 'Natural' Gas is better than coal. look what scientist say about that...

"Generating electricity from gas instead of coal produces ~50 percent less CO₂

Switching from coal-fired power generation to gas can help the EU meet its goal of reducing CO₂ emissions 40 percent by 2030 compared to 1990 levels. In fact, Nord Stream 2 could save about 14 percent of the EU‘s total CO₂ emissions from power generation if natural gas from the pipeline were used to replace coal-fired power stations."

On the website it also says, more gas is needed til 2035 (looks like solar and gas won't be enough, even if you put billions in it)

By 2035, the EU will need to import about 120 bcm more gas per year

"The production outlooks of major gas producers such as Netherlands and UK, as well as Norway, are falling. At the same time, demand for gas is expected to continue, owing to its lower carbon qualities. This means that the EU will need to import more gas. Nord Stream 2 will have the capacity to meet about one third of the EU’s import requirement."

https://www.nord-stream2.com/project/facts/

So Putin will have control over all the power in and outside the EU. And people still think only Trump is owned by Putin... And in the meantime the politicians act as if the Paris Climate Agreement is not more than a farce. In 10 years we must find a way to get the extra gasses out of the air that is coming from all the extra 'natural' gas the world will use.

Environmental Impacts of Natural Gas | Union of Concerned Scientists

Gazprom will mit der neuen Leitung, die von den Energiekonzernen Wintershall, Uniper, OMV, Shell und Engie mitfinanziert wird, seine Exportkapazitäten nach Deutschland von 55 auf 110 Milliarden Kubikmeter Gas jährlich verdoppeln. Der russische Präsident Wladimir Putin will damit direkten Zugang zu europäischen Märkten bekommen, ohne auf Polen oder die Ukraine angewiesen zu sein.

When there was a Ukrain Referendum in Holland politics said if you where voting "NO", you support Putin. But who is actually supporting Putin?

The Dirty 'Clean Fuel': Why Natural Gas Out-Pollutes Coal (Op-Ed)
https://www.livescience.com/52715-na...ple-think.html



all hypocrits

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BaldBastard

You do realise the setup and cost model the solar companies are going with?

How Much Do Solar Panels Cost? - Solar Energy Cost | SolarCity

And you do understand that burning gas today is basically the same technology of 50 years ago, and there's not really more to add to it to make it more efficient.

Where's with solar say there's been a 70% increase in efficacy just in the past 12 months so if you even try and predict 10 years out its scifi.

But I will do it anyways :P within 10 years solar setup to power a house will be under $1500 dollars. For no other reason than that's what China needs.

who needs to buy gas when you can just make it? or paint it

New Inventors: Solar Paint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci6LKz0ajfI

And they are already working towards commercializing it, tis not a prediction its in motion.

Barry-xlovecam

The I would say China will do the world a great favor.

Solar City is taking a different approach and installing solar energy collecting shingles for residential type homes, an American idea made by an innovative American company. The started installing these shingles today https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-roof-installs

Technology advances in this area could, or should, be licensed -- or the world can pay back the Chinese with the theft of their intellectual property (IP). Shoe might end up on the other foot. Or, maybe the Chinese would like to put any technology advance they make into the public domain?

But yeah, coal miners are dinosaurs and fossil fuels are approaching their expiration date.

BaldBastard

Like I just liked who needs solar panels or tiles, when you can just paint.

read

Professor Paul Dastoor / Staff Profile / The University of Newcastle, Australia

Professor Dastoor expects the first prototypes to be available within a year ^^ and its.. copyright FREEEEEEE

Tasty1

Will be great. But will in be enough to repcace every car for a electrical car.
I think we need a lot of gas for that. The electrical cars will be produced with "natural" "clean" gas.

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Sarn

You think thommy want use Trump's coal in own home?
Ukraine as example use bricks from shit, "кизяк" named

BaldBastard

Ruskis are having difficult grasping it huh

Lets a take a few quotes from

Professor Paul Dastoor / Staff Profile / The University of Newcastle, Australia

"When painted across a roof, the cells produce enough electricity to power a household."

"The cells can already produce at lower light levels than existing solar-based silicon cells with installation costs approximately one-tenth of installing a silicon solar system."

"Within the next six months, the Centre for Organic Electronics is also welcoming new infrastructure and equipment that will help build the next layers of the cells. A newly installed printer at the University's Newcastle Institute for Energy and Resources (NIER) has made it possible to print up to a hundred metres of solar cells a day. Professor Dastoor expects the first prototypes to be available within a year."

------------

Understand its a University project, they are not moving to full scale commercial production, just doing the background work so it can be. Its going to be copyright free so any company and any country can produce it. And the 1/10 price is based on the research versions NOT the commercial ones, I'm sure the Chinese can spin them out at 1/100th or less.

---

It also can be used to collect hydrogen gas and they are working on home based compressors that would make it useable for heating and cooking. And before you go "But Hydrogen", Australia has some of the strictest safety regulations in the world, it will be safer than current gas systems.

----
Understand this is not a theory anymore its moving in to prototype stage right now. And once that's done.. its available for any company to make.. copyright free.

And if you take anything from this just let it be change is coming and change is coming very fast in regards to home energy production.

Barry-xlovecam

The idea of solar coating looks good. As far as propulsion -- I have always favored hydrogen fuel cells. The problem is making the hydrogen -- this solar coating technology could produce the electrical power needed for the hydrolysis.

Tasty1

This is great. But at least till 2035, Puton holds the energy of 60 million houses in the EU. The USA is boycotting Russia, but Europe and Turkey are helping Russia to get more money and gain power. Than we have the problems in Syria where Russia, USA, Turkey and Europe have different ideas. The problem in the Ukrain, etcetra.

So Germany gives Putin a lot of power while we get every week warnings about how bad Putin is....

That is the case, that the future is sustainable energy is clear and great. But that will be long after Putin is gone.
I have not so much problems with Putin, but the hypocrism is so clear.

now instead of supporting arab countries with oil money, we support Russia with gas money.
And all because of a Paris Agreement. While it isn't clear that gas is any way better than oil/coal.

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Paul Markham

Government?s Own TPP Report: Meager Growth and Bigger Trade Deficit

https://sc.cnbcfm.com/applications/c...radeGap2_0.png

http://www.usfunds.com/media/images/...5272016-LG.png

Once again proving the Libtards are anti- American.

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Paul Markham

Would Clinton have stopped TPOP which is costing American jobs?

Beef v jobs.

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Paul Markham

No replies to the truth?

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Bladewire

Trump supporters are hurting bad today... gotta bring up Clinton as much as they can. Distract distract distract with their heads in the sand

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just a punk

Dictator Trump must be replaced!

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thommy

on your numbers is just ONE important interpretation:

the are more americans interessted in buying goods and services from offshore as other way round?

WHO is repsonsable that america is only "best" in weapon production but these country accidentally are not in war with others ?????

typical of your species is that you love to blame others for your own inadequacy.

what you proclaim here is the same as if the best marathon runner must have a leg amputated so that the last has a chance.

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Barry-xlovecam

Caterpillar makes good quality products -- so does Komatsu, Hundai and a few others -- so what is your point -- protectionism?

People want to buy value ... Caterpillar makes parts and assembles machinery all over the world -- protecting ones interests goes beyond nationalism.

Paul Markham

Very true, people buy the cheapest possible. But is it worth ruining their status as the world leading economy?

In a few years China will over take the US, then India. Built on a society of millions of low paid workers who can't afford to buy the products they're making.

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thommy

so take ALL imports from china away and not ONE american product will survive in the market because they can only compete in the world market with a related price to the world market.

what you not see is that MANY (if not most) of these goods imported are parts, chips and other stuff what is NECESSARY fro this production.

as you see in your own statistics it is not that the world need US goods urgently but US need to import this goods to compete with their own products on the local AND the international market.

you can not make a country responsable if their products are more wanted in another country as other way round.
this is a free market and china is the BIGGEST importer from USA too.

out of that MANY american companies are invested in china.
what do you think will happen to them when trump starts a trading war?

there CAN only be one big looser and this will not be china.

but let´s see what will happen. maybe this idiot does that too. same as he want to cancel the nuke contract with iran and sanction them. and then WHAT ?
there will be a second NK - that´s all what will happen.

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thommy

i did not doubt that. but do you really think caterpillar would not be in trouble without china ?

in fact they are just waiting to get more space for the china production as you can read here

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thommy

i will tell you what - if the world would NOT be like the way that one country is depending on the other - we would have WW3 already.

even when germany is still (STILL!) depending on russian gas it is kind of a security that moscow prefers to make business as being involved in wars with their own customers.

i think it is way better to let everyone doing what he can do best and everybody trades with each other instead fighting.

as it is in every relationship there will always be something to complain and do better but as long one needs the other to make business there will be ways to fix it.
after the first nuke hits there will not be any way to fix it again.

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Tasty1

Again you see, people have big mouth about Putin. Scaring people for a referendum in Holland that you are a supporter of Putin if you vote NO against Ukrain treaty. People that support Trump are nazi marionets of Putin. In the Ukrain half Europe says Putun is a dangerous dictator. And look what, Germany uber alles, does....

they can make deals about money, but when it comes to saving ten thousands of lifes and working together in Syria or Ukrain, they can't get an agreement. Merkel is going over dead bodies, just like Putin, to get power and make more money. Couldn't they put the energy in solving first some problems in Syria, Ukrain, and all the parts in the world where these countries fight against eachother instead of helping those countries together. Or doesn't that make enough money?

And nice for Germany uber Alles, China, USA. How is africa going to compete? I think they would be better of with an extra tax on some Chinese/EU products.

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Barry-xlovecam

You miss the point, I know Caterpillar makes money in China as well as that Komatsu and Hyundai make good money in the USA market. You are blinded by your anti-American attitudes to reality.

The same way Airbus and Boeing sell competing products world wide.
China and Russia are coming for Boeing and Airbus - May. 23, 2017

Paul Markham

We were doing far better before we bought billions a year from China. We have moved production to the Third World to save on labour costs.

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Paul Markham

How were Caterpillar doing before they had to compete with Third World companies?

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Paul Markham

Before China was industrialised it wasn't a threat.

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Paul Markham

Thommy isn't just anti-American, he's also anti-EU. He thinks that all those things we buy from the Third World wouldn't be made in the West so have to be made in Third World. Stupid logic.

He thinks that all the cheap stuff we buy from the Third World would cost so much to make in the First, no one could afford them. There is an increasing number in the West who can't afford to buy the now.

The only people to benefit from this are the 5% in the Third World and the top 5% here. The rest are doing no better to far worse.

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thommy

why should things be done the expensive way paul?

don´t you see that prosperity depends on purchasing power.
where do you think would the world be when the most expensive people producing the products what cheap people can produce also?

why do you want that people pay more as necessary and going to lose prosperity?

similar to your ideas we would reach full employment when we get rid of ALL machines we are using (because each of them is replacing a worker)

the point is that every product will be THAT expensive at the end that normal people would have to decide if they want one car or 5 bicycles in their entire working life.

your idea is SO TERRIBLY UNLOGIK that i still hope you see your thinking mistake.

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Paul Markham

Not correct and your way of looking at things is so simple.

Purchasing power was the way to create good Western economies when things were made by people in the West. Now they are made by Third Worlders who can't afford to buy what they're making or by machines.

Do you see anyone trying to stop that? No, so your next point s wrong.

I want people in the West to be paid more so they pay more in taxes. https://www.ft.com/content/83e7e87e-...8-3700c5664d30 and https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...eague-tuc-oecd Proves me right and you wrong.

The next point is you going to an extreme which will never happen. So BS.

Can you be more wrong?

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thommy

nope paul - it shows me only that you do not understand what you are reading.
the REAL wages are showing you the difference between income and buying power - and buying power is prosperity.

it does not make sense to make the double if you can buy only the half with this money.

and this is EXACTLY what happens here.

it also does not make sense to pay MORE taxes that is the good old error what even governments do.
a states tax income does not depend on how much one pays - it depends how FAST money turns from one hand to the other. everytime when money goes from one hand to another the state gets his part on the taxes.

money only turns fast when people have enough to spend. and the prices they have to pay for goods are the biggest indicator for that.

this is also why poor people with low tax are more profitable for an economy as rich people who can not even spend the money the make.
poor people have to spend all and that means it ALWAYS will leave their hands.

all i read read from your philosophy is that you have never learned or studied economy. you are talking like all this millions in bear bars who all know it better as the ones who have spend years in school to understand it.

you are on the same knowledge level as all these other trump supporters and this is why
things can not become better because this kind of bee and flower thing does not work in the complicated world of economy.
and this is why hobby economists are the last ones who will be able to make it any better.

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Barry-xlovecam

Hidden agenda much?

In Europe, U.S. sanctions bill creates worries about a controversial Russian pipeline - LA Times

Paul Markham

Economies are measured in the currency of the country. Not the amount of goods bought.

So once again you fail.

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Tasty1

Look what a prosperity these 4 and 9 year old children have.
40.000 Children digging up cobalt for a new Tesla car in the katanga mine region (those stocks rise harder than bitcoin)
They must work harder, by 2040 we want clean energy and clean cars in Europe.
And it must be cheap, so we have more prosperity.
Also not so much pension cost, hundreds of children a year die during the work.

- Eight pence a day for backbreaking work

- Dorsen, eight, had no shoes and told us he hadn't made enough money to eat for the past two days - despite working for about 12 hours a day.

Child miners aged four at Congo cobalt mine | Daily Mail Online

Meet Dorsen, 8, who mines cobalt to make your smartphone work



We will drive a Mercedes VOC by 2030

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Barry-xlovecam

Over 1 billion people vive on less than $1 a day -- be fucking happy you are not one of them.

Most of the Chinese were barely surviving 100 years ago -- things are much better there now because of world trade.

I bet the mine owners those kids work for are getting world price for the mineral they mine and the mine's overlords are exploiting their own peoples children. Remember, African tribes sold other Africans into slavery to Dutch slave traders 300 years ago. New story -- same shit ...

thommy

oh god - you are hopeless.

can i ask you something?

i have a master degree in economic sciences - means: i studied that - what are your skills that makes you so unbelievable wise?
did you get your knowledge at facebook or in the beer bar around the corner?

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