Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 21909706)

Since the discussion is not about any of those things and specifically the Stanford?Binet IQ test which is the de facto, world wide standard when mentioning "IQ" and "IQ Test", I think it's safe to say that you need help as you even have no idea what anyone is saying.

Further, I read about the brain and learning DAILY. I practice what I learn daily in teaching. I train people daily. From casual books to text books... while you read nothing but Trump tweets.... and you didn't know about any of those rather new supposed categories of "intelligence" until you googled them.

Additionally, i am more than happy to prove you wrong in anything you have to say on the subject as I generally know what studies will debunk whatever crap you'll post and consider myself to be up to date on anything related to learning and particularly motor learning as it's my personal obsession as someone who trains people to fight.

Unlike you, i'm not googling furiously to make a point. Take "musical intelligence" which is something that i've never heard of. Why? Because it is never mentioned in neuroscience or books on the brain or books on learning. Why is it never mentioned? Because its bullshit. Having "perfect pitch" as its called as an example is not an innate trait. It's learned just as anything else is. It's something more common in children under 6 and fades as we age. it's something easily learned in adults or children.But it is learned. It's far easier when people speak a tonal language. it's not an innate trait. Adults can learn "perfect pitch" in a couple weeks with the right learning process.

Music related skills are BY FAR the most misunderstood of any learned skill and most often attributed to a "personal gift"... .but from Mozart to Michael Jordan to Michael Jackson to Tiger Woods to any 12-year-old violin "prodigy", behind their skill, is countless 1000s of hours of practice (except that most of Mozarts early work is plagiarized, being other known works pieced together, or written in his father's hand - also a composer/music teacher) and the intense efforts of crazed parents living through their kids to achieve the fame they felt they deserved by forcing their children into insane amounts of practice, coaching and learning.



The worst thing about attributing learned skills to being an innate gift is that it
1) totally diminishes, dismisses and ignores the years of very very hard work of the performer put in to attain that level of skill
2) it suggests to others that they shouldn't try to excel if they don't possess some "gift" already... which then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and one not rooted in any kind of fact or even reality

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell (Post 21910042)

You got a lot of points with me when you mentioned music skills and then you seem to have lost them. Music and numbers are important. Look at the guy whose hippocampus was all but destroyed by disease and yet he can seem to function as if it were partially there while playing piano

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell (Post 21910087)

they want to name 9399085905309853 numbers at you and see how many you can repeat back to them, all KINDS of shit like that

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell (Post 21910090)

My grandfather was a mad genius - never met the guy but he could COMPOSE MUSIC right out of his mind
If you ask me, that equates to raw brilliance

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell (Post 21910087)

One other thing I can say for SURE is that when you're being lab ratted it's not so much like the internet "IQ test"
They have written sort of aptitude tests but that is only the beginning
They want to know if you understand conceptual perception or whatever it is called, they want to name 9399085905309853 numbers at you and see how many you can repeat back to them, all KINDS of shit like that
Assuming that it is a quantifiable at all thing I was told that I'm supposedly in the mid one sixties
I don't think I would EVER have been enough of an egghead to make it into MENSA or the other one but I wasn't stupid back then- that's for sure. Another weird ass thing was, I knew everything already. All of the shit they were teaching me in grade school, I just knew
It was eerie at times
Except math
I was always weak on math
I was always afraid of math
I am still very afraid of numbers and their power and I've had some horrifying number experiences in my drinking days. I could have been a very powerful math genius if I could have overcome some certain things, I believe that.

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks (Post 21911746)

I'm too bored with this subject to take the effort to write a serious comment...

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks (Post 21911746)

I'm too bored with this subject to take the effort to write a serious comment...

Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 21910750)

Procedural memory is not related to the hippocampus. You are talking about automated, learned skills which are performed automatically. The brain is not a computer which stores and recalls information. That's similar to saying "he can't remember what he reads at all but he can ride a bike".

Besides, the question in such examples is not "what was destroyed", the question is "how and where did the brain compensate"

Further, your brain is highly "plastic" or adaptable. Meaning that when a lesion impairs some pathway, yet you persist in training the affected task/skill etc, your brain will figure out how to compensate for the impairment. A child (generally under the age of 6) can have 1/2 the hemisphere of their brain removed and develop full brain function to the extent that there are no outward signs of impairment. A simple example of this is the fact that autopsies show people with advanced Alzheimers all the time, yet they never showed a single symptom because they kept forcing their brain to work and find new pathways to accomplish a task... vs laying down and dying (teachers, scientists or whatever - people who place a high cognitive load on their brain daily). This is extremely common and never talked about except within science.

and this is where the trouble begins.... what is "mind", what is a "strong mind"?

Originally Posted by AmeliaG (Post 21911713)

Depends on the year of your test, and the test, but, for most years, as I recall MENSA's cutoff would be 150.

If you want to join a support group for being intelligent.

Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 21910756)

The original studies on short term memory i believe date back to the 50s with the first being a famous one called something like '7 plus or minus 2" which said that our short term memory can hold 7 pieces of information on average. This became the basis for telephone numbers being 7 digits.

One who took this further is K Anders Ericsson (leading expert on the development of Expertise) - where he began to do studies with a gentleman - reading out a series of numbers at 1-second intervals (so it can't be transferred to long term memory). He could initially do 7 easily. After some practice could reliably recite 8 digits back. After much more, he could do 9. The progress continued until he stopped i think of somewhere around 80 digits read to him at 1-second intervals.

Others continued his work, passing 200.

The world record now is i believe well beyond 400. That's listening to someone call out numbers at 1 second intervals for almost 7 minutes and then reciting them back. All learned. Not an innate gift.

The point is that even something such as this which seems like a miraculous gift is nothing more than a learned skill that comes with intense practice. In particular, its simply about developing memory retrieval structures to organize and group the information in a meaningful manner so that it might be recited back correctly. The original guy used running scenarios - such as "on this date, at this time, xxxx people ran an xxx race and the best time was xx.xx.xx.xxx". Those tactics have to change as the strings of digits increase in length and the individual has to figure out new methods to organize, group and successfully retrieve the information.

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell (Post 21912310)

Wow.. you do actually know a lot more about this than I do
What I meant about wearing is that I've seen films where it looks as if his hippocampus may be functioning as he's playing music

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell (Post 21912316)

I can't remember much of shit but they do some pretty fucking seemingly arbitrary tests to you
This one makes a lot more sense to me now than it did when I was young
I COULD NEVER do 200 or 400 that I am aware of
I think I did close to 20 two digit ones

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell (Post 21912313)

I should have joined that when I was still brilliant - LOL
I thought that MENSA was 170 or above but I think there are other factors
I wasn't interested in the whole thing I didn't even love being lab ratted - I was 11

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell (Post 21912298)

LoL
You're probably the smartest one here

Or wait

It would maybe be someone who didn't even post

So you're 2nd that we know of

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks (Post 21912601)

Mensa doesn't measure in IQ. You can become a member if you scored better then 98% of the other people who did the test. That's what an "IQ" test is... subjective... Always in comparison to other people's score... If you have a 98% percentile score and you lay an IQ tabel next to it... it roughly means we're talking about an "IQ" of 131 and above...

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks (Post 21912607)

Check this threads postcount... Maybe 98% of all gfy members didn't even post:1orglaugh:upsidedow

Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 21912427)

there is still a universal hard limit on the pieces of information which can be stored and retrieved from short term memory WITHOUT PRACTICING TO GO FURTHER. Usually, 7. going beyond 7 to 9-10-11 etc requires practice. I think it took the original guy something like 50 hours to get to 11 or so. then something like another 100 hours to get to 20.

Going further than 7-8-9 digits means not only a LOT of practice but continually coming up with new retrieval strategies and methods of grouping and organizing the information in a manner in which it can be recalled without error. Usually relating it to something else or telling a story etc. To get to 200 pieces of information in short term memory and being able to recall it, i think it would take hundreds and hundreds of hours of practice and that assumes a strong dedication to doing it as well as successfully figuring out strategies to organize and group numbers in a manner in which they can be successfully recalled... though i'm sure the strategies of others can be searched online as a help.

and by the way "20 two digit ones" can be "10 four digit ones" or "5 8 digit ones" etc... so how many pieces of information it technically is and whether or not you can recall it successfully, depends entirely on how your brain groups the numbers together and organizes them.

Like a chessboard for example.

You can arrange pieces on a board in a "game like" manner and ask an experienced chess player to stare at it for 10 seconds, then recreate it and he can. That's because he's not remembering each piece and where it's at,... he's recalling a simple pattern of pieces which has come up a lot in many years of playing chess. So that could technically be "one piece" of information... yet we look at it and call it "genius".

Of course, when you put the pieces on the board in a random, non game-like manner... the experienced chess player does no better than any random person.

There is always a chasm between what we perceive to be the skill (or ability) and what it actually is. We misperceive whats happening and then attribute it to genius or some innate talent. Thats never the actual case, however.

Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 21912400)

You should read up on the original memory studies on Henry Mollison (sp?) "Patient H.M." - who had his hippocampus removed - if I recall it was with the mistaken belief it would relieve his seizures or something similar. He was studied for well over 30 years and could not form new memories. The doctor had to introduce himself every day for decades.



I was just telling my GF about this woman in Toronto and it occurred to me to go to her website. She has a fantastic story but only touches on about 20% of it in this video as to her impairments which were quite severe.





Yes, these conversations rely on a huge number of assumptions that often have no basis in fact and which are usually quite wrong. :)

Though I am fascinated with the brain and really enjoy stuff like the work of VS Ramachandran and similar doctors - my obsession for the last 2 years has been motor learning and the acquisition of skill and expertise with respect to complex skills - and applying what i learn daily in our training, where we've seen incredible success and unbelievable rates of progress.

I'm obsessed with it.

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell (Post 21912610)

If a rough estimation would be 131+, what are they, a bunch of slightly clever morons? As addled as I currently am by damage done by alcohol and other factors, even I MYSELF should probably still be able to score higher than THAT. A common corporate DRONE would come close to THAT if you think about it

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks (Post 21912661)

Only 2% of all world population scores 131. Only 1% scores 162. The average IQ is around 100. The gap between 100 and 131 maybe seems small because of all Facebook tests where everyone scores 180++++ but in fact is a huge gap. Think about it... A person with an average IQ looking at a retard.. which means an IQ between 70 and 85... What does a person with an average IQ looks like to a person with 130+? Exactly...

I think you overestimate corperate drones...

The average IQ is around 100. It roughly means that this world was designed by, and thus implicit designed for... the average. I think that's the most frustrating aspect of being gifted... living in a world of structural retardness...

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell (Post 21912655)

Wow, I didn't know that there were more of them
It sounds like the guy he's quoting is completely wrong
Who the fuck believes that explanation
Oh and he even suddenly is a synesthete (sp) all of a sudden
Nope no changes in THAT brain.. lol

Originally Posted by AndyA (Post 21912730)

Mr maxwell

Then I think your pretty safe and normal

Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 21913090)

I didn't watch the video, but i'd point out that "extraordinary ability" as far as brain function goes, generally only exists as a symptom of extraordinary disability.

Even then, these supposed "abilities" only come with many hours of focused practice. For example, an autistic savant might be a phenomenal piano player or have some other mind blowing skill... but that is also ONLY because they tend to practice more and more effectively at that thing.... meaning that they focus on (to the exclusion of everything around them) a task and repeat it over and over and over and over and over... There is no known case where someone magically circumvented the necessary time practicing that skill to acquire it (at least to a world class level of skill).

Synesthesia is fascinating. Synesthesia is generally "cross chatter" between neuronal pathways which never successfully paired down as the brain developed - with one pathway processing colors for example and one processing letters, the cross chatter causes letters to have distinct colors. I have never read about anyone spontaneously developing any form of synesthesia... and it comes in a lot of forms. It seems highly unlikely for a fully developed adult brain to suddenly have some form of synesthesia - if it was possible, it would likely only be for a couple weeks until the brain again compensates for the damaged pathway and re-corrects itself.

Also, an interesting thing about synesthesia is that it's incredibly common. I think it's something like 1% of the population has some form of it... but it's not something that anyone ever talks about or admits to.

Originally Posted by rogueteens (Post 21915160)

What we need is a member on GFY with a sky high IQ, now will he (she?) chip in? :D

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell (Post 21915256)

Hmmm
We should not hold our breath
It's probably a woman who never posts
I bet that she had a beautiful face, the voice of an angel, knowledge as well as a full understanding of nearly any subject one can possibly think of, and an amazing ass (not to mention ridiculous nipples)
Another thing I'd say if I had to venture a guess is that when a woman like her walks into anywhere then anyone and everyone will probably stop everything right then to stand there staring . . awed by her beauty and captivated in her
every
little
move

Women are so bad
They need so many kisses and spankings and all of this
Amongst other things
They are BAD