CCBill + Microsoft = Impressive. - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

nazgul · 04-24-2003, 03:22 PM

Gruffy,

It is already happening! If you control the user experience and let them know that they only get the content for so long, and you drop the price, customers adapt readily.

Infact our system tracks users who resubscribe by tracking email, etc. And the majority of purchases come from people who have already bought content.

Again, Blockbuster takes your video back after 5 days. Does that stop you from renting videos at block buster.

fiveyes · 04-24-2003, 03:23 PM

DRM certainly sounds to be the wave of the future!

But will it stop hotlinking of movies? That is to say, can you make one of the conditions for viewing to be based the referring URL? If not, the largest problem with MediaPlayer still hasn't been addressed.

nazgul · 04-24-2003, 03:25 PM

fiveyes

We are in the process of developing that technology as you post this. I don't want to get into details, but yes, it is possible.

naz

gruffy · 04-24-2003, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nazgul
Gruffy,

It is already happening! If you control the user experience and let them know that they only get the content for so long, and you drop the price, customers adapt readily.

Infact our system tracks users who resubscribe by tracking email, etc. And the majority of purchases come from people who have already bought content.

Again, Blockbuster takes your video back after 5 days. Does that stop you from renting videos at block buster.

Well yes, if you are talking about selling movies VOD conversions kickass. Gamelink's conversions on that gives me a big woody every month.

If you are talking about applying this to paysites then again, its dicey.

mountainmiester · 04-24-2003, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thorin
This dramatically changes the nature of paysites using it. Before a user would pay $20 or $30 to have full access to the material, I doubt there were many surfers out there who weren't saving at least *some* of it from each site. They expected it, they wanted it -- it's what they paid for right? (this excludes people who make a habbit of stealing all the content they can tho) With DRM that expires after a set time the user is no longer paying for the same thing. Now they pay only to view it. Can you justify that the same content is worth the same fee if thier ability to use it is crippled. Can a surfer still justify paying the same membership fee if they know they get nothing once thier membership is over?

Basically this changes the product. Which will change prices, sales, marketing etc.

I'm not saying this is wholly bad, but it's not as simple as "everything is the way it was, but now my content won't get stolen & used inappropriately" It changes *everything* about the paysite model.

Thorin,

Good point. In fact they've already done studies on this and the answer is actually yes and no. It was done with music and they issued a small quantity of DRM'ed music for $5 per CD against a Non-DRM CD for $16 that was not restricted. The restricted content outsold the unrestricted by 20 to 1. As far as what the end user expects, the ability to host extremely large volumes of content on a site without the fear of a user sucking down large amounts of bandwidth, give the end user much greater access to content while the webmaster has the freedom to offer that content while staying cost effective. Where the success is most prevalent with DRM users in the development of NEW business models.

Randall

the indigo · 04-24-2003, 03:52 PM

Great idea IF every paysite use it... dream on.

corvette · 04-24-2003, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by extreme
You know full well they will still be able to do that. Deceptive marketing at its best.

With all due respect, I think that it is hardly deceptive marketing; no more so than a car alarm company stating that their product deters or prevents car theft, or a host of a thousand other examples.

I suppose that a customer can set up a video camera in front of a computer screen to copy a movie, but that would be a lot of work and result in degradation of quality, or a series of ?print screens? to save images, or get hardware that will allow you to save a movie to a VCR, again with loss of quality.

Creating software that attempts to circumvent MS DRM is a violation of the DMCA ?if somebody is able to create it, they risk a large fine and prison time

As far as rippers go, again, there is the loss of quality issue. Rippers will not normally be able to capture all of the frames in a video stream

This is a system that that allows conventional protection for content versus being able to download and instantly distribute it. Think of it as a locked house with a burglar alarm on a street of houses with the front door wide open.

Madball · 04-24-2003, 04:36 PM

Is this limited to any special video formats? Or available with AVI, MPEG, WMV whatever?

Hind · 04-24-2003, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by corvett

The system is very flexible; you set whatever rules that you wish?.you can set the license to expire after 2 years, you can set it to never expire

The point is that the movie cannot be traded with friends, on kazaa, and so forth?the license is issued to that particular computer and cannot be given out or traded, unless you want it to be

Don't be fucking naive please... you know thousands of DRM cracks will appear as soon as the system gets a bit of popularity.

Right, you will be able to get some sales from republican losers who will pay for it but the overwhelming mayority will crack the system.

There's no such thing as "unbreakable software"... ask your partner Bill Gates about it.

The Machine · 04-24-2003, 05:48 PM

There are too many surfers on this board ;)

The Machine · 04-24-2003, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Madball
Is this limited to any special video formats? Or available with AVI, MPEG, WMV whatever?

We provide a DRM solution for MPEG-1, 2 and AVI (including DivX and MPEG-4). The other guys here provide a solution for WMV.

nazgul · 04-24-2003, 06:30 PM

This version of the Windows Media DRM has not been cracked yet. An older version of the software was cracked with a program called freeme.exe. However that has been patched.

The simple fact of the matter is that everything can be "cracked" however MS has 30 programmers sitting in redmond waiting for that to happen.

It is called a self healing technology as once it is cracked, it calls out, and alerts MS. Once MS hears of the hack, the software is upgraded, and the hack is stoped the very next instance you hit play on your windows media player.

So its not really a matter of whether or not it can be hacked, it is how fast can you fix it.

Naz

nazgul · 04-25-2003, 01:42 PM

lets keep this thread going... I want 100 posts, and I don't know much else

Pornwolf · 07-14-2003, 02:42 PM

Has anyone tried this?

12clicks · 07-14-2003, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by corvett
For anybody that is not sure what drmnetworks does, we have a system that encrypts digital media content and limits access to only those people who have acquired a proper license to play the content.

Using it, you have the ability to put rules in place such as:
A customer can be issued a license to view a collection of movies for 30 days, once the 30 days is up; they have to purchase another license.

A customer can buy ?tokens? to be able to purchase the ability to view particular movies (costing different token amounts) on a site.

A movie clip is distributed and in order to view the clip, a customer has to enter some personal information, such as name and email address

It is simple to use and depending on that amount of licenses, etc, it can cost only a few hundred dollars a month. It is for webmasters that would like to keep their exclusive content "exclusive", which is harder these days with things such as password traders, peer to peer software such as kazaa, etc.

There is a special in April if you process with CCBill; the monthly cost starts at $99. If anybody wants to try it out, email [email protected].

I remember talking to RonC about this 2 years ago over dinner.
Nice to see you guys pull this baby off!

Shoplifter · 07-14-2003, 03:13 PM

Does it require that you run MS server software yourself? Or does the client merely contact the DRM server for the license?

nazgul · 07-14-2003, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shoplifter
Does it require that you run MS server software yourself? Or does the client merely contact the DRM server for the license?

It contacts the windows media license server that is hosted by the DRM provider. You do not have to have any windows media boxes on your side.

Well you need a way to allow windows media files to download, or stream but you don't really need a windows media server for that.

FATPad · 07-14-2003, 03:27 PM

If you don't like the idea of limiting your paysite member's ability to view your content after their membership expires, you don't have to.

People who would prefer to try and protect their content, can.

If people want to market their sites as "non-drm downloadable movies" they can go ahead and do that if they want.

Good stuff.

RonC · 07-14-2003, 04:02 PM

12Clicks

Yes it is going great. Here is a few of the small companies that we handle the DRM for.

Hewlett Packard
Honeywell
DHL Worldwide Express
Cisco
Price Waterhouse

Just to name a few

))

Ron C
CCBill.com/DRMnetworks.net

12clicks · 07-14-2003, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RonC
12Clicks

Yes it is going great. Here is a few of the small companies that we handle the DRM for.

Hewlett Packard
Honeywell
DHL Worldwide Express
Cisco
Price Waterhouse

Just to name a few))

Ron C
CCBill.com/DRMnetworks.net

Yeah but Ron, you know that no REAL business is going to go along with your scheme.

Ludedude · 07-14-2003, 06:11 PM

You mean all those real big businesses use streaming media and haven't paid to suck on the Acacia tit yet? Amazing

KBPimped · 07-14-2003, 07:07 PM

Sure except that once you have ripped down the DRM'd stream you still won't be able to open it.

Kimmykim · 07-14-2003, 07:20 PM

Gee, if MS could make you have to reformat your computer for fucking with a DRM'd product then it would probably not hurt their market share much, but it would sure help a lot of industries.

Think about it.

KBPimped · 07-14-2003, 07:38 PM

12Clicks What SCAM are you referring too? Thats a bit cryptic.

Project-Shadow · 07-14-2003, 07:49 PM

... You know what I haven't seen asked yet...

What happens if your running *nix as your O/S

KBPimped · 07-14-2003, 08:11 PM

There is no Linux or Unix Support for MS DRM. No way to guarantee the safety of the blackbox.

Matt 26z · 07-14-2003, 08:18 PM

The webmaster part of me thinks:

When you buy a paysite membership now, you get access to possibly years worth of updates plus 4 weeks of future updates. This is a damn good deal the first month. It's the equivalent of buying this month's issue of Playboy, and them also throwing in the last 24 months issues.

The surfer part of me thinks:

I've always been able to save stuff, and put it into my porn collection. $30 a month to look at porn is quite a bit as it is since there's so much free stuff out there already. So taking my ability to save things away makes that $30 seem even more outrageous. Lower the average paysite price to $10/mo, and I'd go for it.

Here are some other things...

What if I buy the membership on the crappy computer in my living room (and the license is issued to that computer), but then want to watch the videos on the good computer in another room?

What if I save a video to my computer, and go to watch it later. But I'm not connected to the internet. Does this mean the DRM can't be verified? If not, suppose someone else in the house is using the phone line and I can't log on.

Suppose I'm going on a trip for a week, and want to stick some of these videos on a laptop. I can't watch them, can I?

I'd also like to add that if keeping surfers from saving content was such a big issue, then how come paysites have never implemented certain scripts to prevent this? You can't keep a computer educated surfer from saving, but you can certainly keep the average surfer from doing so with some very simple scripts.

12clicks · 07-15-2003, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KBPimped
12Clicks What SCAM are you referring too? Thats a bit cryptic.

I'm not sure which turnip truck you just fell off of but you should first learn how to read and second understand tongue in cheek. if not, refrain from posting.

KBPimped · 07-15-2003, 08:36 AM

12Clicks................riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiggggggggggggght.

Was just asking.

Have never actually seen a Turnip truck though.

12clicks · 07-15-2003, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KBPimped
12Clicks................riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiggggggggggggght.

Was just asking.

you asked a question about something that was never said.

it really sucks now that school is out and these guys are here all day.

KBPimped · 07-15-2003, 09:01 AM

good one.

04-24-2003, 03:21 PM	#51
applejacks Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: GPWC Posts: 750	50 __________________ <A href="http://www.superchargedentertainment.com/adult/"><img src="http://www.superchargedentertainment.com/banners2/graphics/se-120x60-001.gif" border="0"></a>

04-24-2003, 03:23 PM	#53
fiveyes Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: New Orleans Posts: 1,680	DRM certainly sounds to be the wave of the future! But will it stop hotlinking of movies? That is to say, can you make one of the conditions for viewing to be based the referring URL? If not, the largest problem with MediaPlayer still hasn't been addressed. __________________ <CENTER><A HREF="http://www.hot-off-bourbon.com/" target="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://www.hot-off-bourbon.com/images/hob-logosmall.jpg" border="0"></A> <FONT face="Comic Sans MS" SIZE="-1"><I>Mardi Gras, Spring Break, Wet-T, Night Club Action, UpSkirt, Oil Wrestling, Voyeur</I></FONT></CENTER>

04-24-2003, 05:48 PM	#61
The Machine Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 859	There are too many surfers on this board ;) __________________ Complex, large-scale, multi-platform custom programming. icq # 106 769 997

07-14-2003, 02:42 PM	#65
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	Has anyone tried this? __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

07-14-2003, 03:27 PM	#69
FATPad Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,693	If you don't like the idea of limiting your paysite member's ability to view your content after their membership expires, you don't have to. People who would prefer to try and protect their content, can. If people want to market their sites as "non-drm downloadable movies" they can go ahead and do that if they want. Good stuff. __________________ <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

04-24-2003, 03:22 PM	#52
nazgul Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 227	Gruffy, It is already happening! If you control the user experience and let them know that they only get the content for so long, and you drop the price, customers adapt readily. Infact our system tracks users who resubscribe by tracking email, etc. And the majority of purchases come from people who have already bought content. Again, Blockbuster takes your video back after 5 days. Does that stop you from renting videos at block buster.

04-24-2003, 03:25 PM	#54
nazgul Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 227	fiveyes We are in the process of developing that technology as you post this. I don't want to get into details, but yes, it is possible. naz

04-24-2003, 03:52 PM	#57
the indigo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: North America Posts: 2,016	Great idea IF every paysite use it... dream on.

04-24-2003, 04:36 PM	#59
Madball Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 748	Is this limited to any special video formats? Or available with AVI, MPEG, WMV whatever?

04-24-2003, 06:30 PM	#63
nazgul Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 227	This version of the Windows Media DRM has not been cracked yet. An older version of the software was cracked with a program called freeme.exe. However that has been patched. The simple fact of the matter is that everything can be "cracked" however MS has 30 programmers sitting in redmond waiting for that to happen. It is called a self healing technology as once it is cracked, it calls out, and alerts MS. Once MS hears of the hack, the software is upgraded, and the hack is stoped the very next instance you hit play on your windows media player. So its not really a matter of whether or not it can be hacked, it is how fast can you fix it. Naz

04-25-2003, 01:42 PM	#64
nazgul Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 227	lets keep this thread going... I want 100 posts, and I don't know much else

07-14-2003, 03:13 PM	#67
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,727	Does it require that you run MS server software yourself? Or does the client merely contact the DRM server for the license?

07-14-2003, 04:02 PM	#70
RonC Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 236	12Clicks Yes it is going great. Here is a few of the small companies that we handle the DRM for. Hewlett Packard Honeywell DHL Worldwide Express Cisco Price Waterhouse Just to name a few)) Ron C CCBill.com/DRMnetworks.net

07-14-2003, 06:11 PM	#72
Ludedude Suck it! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Who wants to know? Posts: 4,432	You mean all those real big businesses use streaming media and haven't paid to suck on the Acacia tit yet? Amazing __________________

07-14-2003, 07:07 PM	#73
KBPimped Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 86	Sure except that once you have ripped down the DRM'd stream you still won't be able to open it.

07-14-2003, 07:20 PM	#74
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Gee, if MS could make you have to reformat your computer for fucking with a DRM'd product then it would probably not hurt their market share much, but it would sure help a lot of industries. Think about it.

07-14-2003, 07:38 PM	#75
KBPimped Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 86	12Clicks What SCAM are you referring too? Thats a bit cryptic.

07-14-2003, 07:49 PM	#76
Project-Shadow Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 7,340	... You know what I haven't seen asked yet... What happens if your running *nix as your O/S

07-14-2003, 08:11 PM	#77
KBPimped Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 86	There is no Linux or Unix Support for MS DRM. No way to guarantee the safety of the blackbox.

07-14-2003, 08:18 PM	#78
Matt 26z So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: ¤ª"˜¨๑۩۞۩๑¨˜"ª¤ Posts: 18,481	The webmaster part of me thinks: When you buy a paysite membership now, you get access to possibly years worth of updates plus 4 weeks of future updates. This is a damn good deal the first month. It's the equivalent of buying this month's issue of Playboy, and them also throwing in the last 24 months issues. The surfer part of me thinks: I've always been able to save stuff, and put it into my porn collection. $30 a month to look at porn is quite a bit as it is since there's so much free stuff out there already. So taking my ability to save things away makes that $30 seem even more outrageous. Lower the average paysite price to $10/mo, and I'd go for it. Here are some other things... What if I buy the membership on the crappy computer in my living room (and the license is issued to that computer), but then want to watch the videos on the good computer in another room? What if I save a video to my computer, and go to watch it later. But I'm not connected to the internet. Does this mean the DRM can't be verified? If not, suppose someone else in the house is using the phone line and I can't log on. Suppose I'm going on a trip for a week, and want to stick some of these videos on a laptop. I can't watch them, can I? I'd also like to add that if keeping surfers from saving content was such a big issue, then how come paysites have never implemented certain scripts to prevent this? You can't keep a computer educated surfer from saving, but you can certainly keep the average surfer from doing so with some very simple scripts.

07-15-2003, 08:36 AM	#80
KBPimped Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 86	12Clicks................riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiggggggggggggght. Was just asking. Have never actually seen a Turnip truck though.

07-15-2003, 09:01 AM	#82
KBPimped Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 86	good one.