the flood of free porn: TGP's should act. - GoFuckYourself.com

bristol · 04-13-2003, 11:31 AM

the internet is a flood of free porn. in my view the tgp's should be taking active steps to reduce the amount of site exposure they currently endulge in.

i firmly believe a reduction in the amount of sites they list will increase webmaster profitability and they themselves yield a greater return on spots they sell.

i am in favour of a cartel or the act of collusion.

Mutt · 04-13-2003, 11:36 AM

always a good idea, been tried, never works.

the amount of free porn will continue to grown unabated. don't see anything to stop it.

Exxxotica · 04-13-2003, 11:38 AM

You've just figured this out now?

bristol · 04-13-2003, 11:40 AM

no obviously..

but sometimes people need to be reminded of the simple things.

ItBurnsWhenIpee · 04-13-2003, 11:43 AM

Good idea of course but who's gonna be the first TGP to reduce their free porn? I know it won't be me if a lot of other people are still giving it away

Lane · 04-13-2003, 11:43 AM

the real problem is free porn without the ads.. the real problem is the 1hr long dvd rips you can download from kazaa during your sleep.

i've asked people... they simply stopped surfing for porn after they discovered kazaa..

i can't even imagine how much that program harms the industry..

ItBurnsWhenIpee · 04-13-2003, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lane
the real problem is free porn without the ads.. the real problem is the 1hr long dvd rips you can download from kazaa during your sleep.

i've asked people... they simply stopped surfing for porn after they discovered kazaa..

i can't even imagine how much that program harms the industry..

Fuck.

the real magoo · 04-13-2003, 11:46 AM

There should be MORE free porn, not less..

If you can´t make money on online sex:
http://www.mcdonalds.com

Libertine · 04-13-2003, 11:46 AM

I've said it before... if we work together, we can destroy the kazaa porn scene in a matter of days.

bristol · 04-13-2003, 11:48 AM

care to elaborate, punkworld?

EscortBiz · 04-13-2003, 11:48 AM

Well there is one thing that if done will increase revenue by 1000%

If a company like CyberCat Inc. that controls millions of hits a day makes all the galleries show thumbs only the conversion rates will go crazy.

The ones who will run to other TGP's are the ones who won't sign up anyway.

I know this wont happen because as long as there are webmasters submitting there will be TGP's linking

Libertine · 04-13-2003, 11:51 AM

Fake files, and lots of them. If a few dozen (or few hundred, even) webmasters all start spamming kazaa with crappy vids/ogrish-like vids/blank vids/etc, targetting all the main keywords and such, kazaa porn will greatly diminish. Eventually, it will even die out.

EscortBiz · 04-13-2003, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
Fake files, and lots of them. If a few dozen (or few hundred, even) webmasters all start spamming kazaa with crappy vids/ogrish-like vids/blank vids/etc, targetting all the main keywords and such, kazaa porn will greatly diminish. Eventually, it will even die out.

I second that, we should do it!

MattO · 04-13-2003, 11:56 AM

I'll get filling up my Kazaa directory immediately... gotta watermark some blank video files first heheheh

Libertine · 04-13-2003, 11:58 AM

Something that might work as well is putting up heavily censored stuff (no genitals, no nipples). That might even work better, since more people will keep them on their computers and they will get distributed faster. (the other thing works as well though, since many people don't delete stuff immediately)

Lane · 04-13-2003, 11:59 AM

there is a way to make a movie clip popup browser windows with whatever url you want.. anyone know how to do that?

Juan · 04-13-2003, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
Fake files, and lots of them. If a few dozen (or few hundred, even) webmasters all start spamming kazaa with crappy vids/ogrish-like vids/blank vids/etc, targetting all the main keywords and such, kazaa porn will greatly diminish. Eventually, it will even die out.

The RIAA is already doing this with music. It can and will work IF enough people leave Kazaa (or whatever fucking client you like) running to serve 'em. Normal people download shit, and delete it. Webmasters who are trying to do this need to leave up the files. Anybody want to organize this on a web site?

Tuga · 04-13-2003, 12:08 PM

This is a very cool ideia but it must be on a website to work... this thread may be hot today and gone tomorrow... let's do it!

bristol · 04-13-2003, 12:10 PM

any way this can be done on a dedicated server on a shitty 10mbit cogentco conn?

foreverjason · 04-13-2003, 12:13 PM

free porn on the internet I think will always be a way of life, just make money off the freebies!

MattO · 04-13-2003, 12:15 PM

the more servers the better. I'll leave mine on all the time and see what happens.

What would be good would be a bulk copier, re-namer, keyword'er that would take a single file and make thousands of copies with keywords selected from a list.
Yea, that'd be good.

MarcieB · 04-13-2003, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lane
there is a way to make a movie clip popup browser windows with whatever url you want.. anyone know how to do that?

No but i'm very interested in this! I totally agree that Kazaa and others like it are making it way to easy for ppl to get free porn.
Everybody can complain about TGP's giving to much away, but at least on a tgp there is a possibility of a signup.

Fire · 04-13-2003, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lane
there is a way to make a movie clip popup browser windows with whatever url you want.. anyone know how to do that?

I know how....
ICQ 83296449

foe · 04-13-2003, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ItBurnsWhenIpee

Fuck.

OzKaNoz · 04-13-2003, 01:08 PM

I agree something needs to be done about programs like Kazaa or Kazoo or whatever it's call.

I think most know my feeling about to much free porn. I don't like and yes Tgp2 is the answer to that and does work well.

If you need more info on Tgp2 just go to the Tgp2 WebRing link in my sig. There are links there to many Tgp2 resources.
Btw, before anyone says other wise Tgp2 is doing good and growing again. If you haven't looked at Tgp2 lately, it's change and the rules are standardized.

No flames please. It's not needed because many of the regular tgp's are starting to see the value in tgp2 and are listing them along side of tgp galleries.

Oz

Babaganoosh · 04-13-2003, 01:11 PM

It's nice in theory but unfortunately TGPs and free porn are here to stay. Either adapt or become extinct.

Also, TGP2 was another good idea but surfers hate it and without surfers...well...you know.

Quit crying and adapt. That's all that can be done.

FATPad · 04-13-2003, 01:20 PM

The surfers didn't necessarily hate TGP2.

Most of the TGP2's were run as CJ's though, and that's what they hated. Not to mention all the TGP2 gallery builders thought "less pics" and "easier rules" meant submitting complete shit galleries with blurry thumbs and 350 pixel wide garbage full size pics.

But yes, TGP's are here to stay. Good luck convincing the large TGP's that are already making good money that they're doing it all wrong and need to change.

Someone somewhere has to be making money off the TGP model or it wouldn't exist anymore.

Kevlar · 04-13-2003, 01:23 PM

Just forget about wasting your time in TGPs, unless you're the hun they stoped being profitable 4 years ago. 1:500 is not a number a bulker has ever seen.

rooster · 04-13-2003, 01:24 PM

The only one that can liberate us from the brutal reign of TGPs is Mr. Bush.

aleck · 04-13-2003, 01:26 PM

1:200...1:500 r ok for me

aleck · 04-13-2003, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rooster
The only one that can liberate us from the brutal reign of TGPs is Mr. Bush.

bombing the datacenters?

extreme · 04-13-2003, 01:41 PM

Hmm, the only losers here are the TGPs?
Someone remind me exactly why they should support this?

Jimmer · 04-13-2003, 01:42 PM

I was running a TGP2 now it is a TGP that accepts 5 pics and up because I'm not getting enough submissions. I was making a 80-100 bucks a week on a lousy 2k a day. Imagine if I had some real traffic.
There is no reason that people should not accept 5 pic galleries and reduce their maximum pics to 16.

freeadultcontent · 04-13-2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lane
there is a way to make a movie clip popup browser windows with whatever url you want.. anyone know how to do that?

Yes I do Lane.

Jimmer · 04-13-2003, 01:56 PM

it tells you all about this in Andy Dunn's newsletters

polish_aristocrat · 04-13-2003, 02:07 PM

about Kazaa - it doesn't necessarly hurt the conversion ratio since - as someone already told - ppl who 'discovered" Kazaa aren't SURFING for porn anyway.
But I agree that it should be stopped and any idea like this deserves every webmaster support.

about TGP's - I like the idea to implement a maximum number of thumbs rule. It won't hurt the TGP owners, if there's a 15 or even 12 thumb maximum rule ( yes, I still see galleries with 25 thumbs which doesn't completely make sence ).

FATPad · 04-13-2003, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimmer
I was running a TGP2 now it is a TGP that accepts 5 pics and up because I'm not getting enough submissions. I was making a 80-100 bucks a week on a lousy 2k a day. Imagine if I had some real traffic.
There is no reason that people should not accept 5 pic galleries and reduce their maximum pics to 16.

There's several good reasons why some places won't do that.

04-13-2003, 02:55 PM

Well, someone should post some easy steps how to make fake images or movies ..

Well, my first one.

1. take some non adult image and rename it to something adult and also make an adult description for it. then copy it to the shared folder of kazaa. also give it the BEST rating.

FlyingIguana · 04-13-2003, 02:59 PM

the flood of shitty sites: paysites should act.

thats the real problem in this industry

jimmyf · 04-13-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyingIguana
the flood of shitty sites: paysites should act.

thats the real problem in this industry

A HUGE problem .

I have no ideal what you could do.

notion · 04-13-2003, 03:45 PM

What we need is a set of 20 or so movies (per niche) [faked of course] that all the webmasters who want to participate have; so that our movies will appear with the most users / bandwidth.

Jimmer · 04-13-2003, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FATPad
There's several good reasons why some places won't do that.

I'm not here to argue as I don't really care too much. Just pointing out, I made money and if someone is able to make money there way then

Toker · 04-13-2003, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kevlar
Just forget about wasting your time in TGPs, unless you're the hun they stoped being profitable 4 years ago. 1:500 is not a number a bulker has ever seen.

I spend less than an hour a day on mine and make 3 grand a month!

inthestars · 04-13-2003, 07:00 PM

I've done Kazaa spamming and it isn't easy.. you need about 100,000 files to really see good money. On a dedicated server, plan on burning through 100 gig a day...

SothArtist · 04-13-2003, 07:18 PM

I downloaded a vid from Kazaa ... purely for research purposes ofcourse. When i ran it, it said you then had to pay to see it. Was a wmv file I think. It pissed me off no end. That might an option also.

inthestars · 04-13-2003, 07:21 PM

yep, you just encode your url in the wmv file and it gives a pop up when played..

Kevlar · 04-13-2003, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toker

I spend less than an hour a day on mine and make 3 grand a month!

Wow three grand a month, you make almost as much as a school teacher now!

lol, keep it up for 60 years and you can retire.

KRL · 04-13-2003, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz
Well there is one thing that if done will increase revenue by 1000%

If a company like CyberCat Inc. that controls millions of hits a day makes all the galleries show thumbs only the conversion rates will go crazy.

The ones who will run to other TGP's are the ones who won't sign up anyway.

Totally Agree!!

teas0r · 04-13-2003, 10:07 PM

on this whole tgp, tgp2 issue...

i just checked out the tgp2 web ring and i tell you what.... those are some of the shittiest sites i have ever seen. maybe i missed the "cool ones" or something, but for the most part they suck... the list sites and the galleries both. most of them had 0 personality, and the ones that did try to have some personality just sucked.

and everyone talking about tgps switching to a max # of pics, 15 or something, good luck. the more pics they have, the more they can convince their surfers to keep coming back. it may be the best move for gallery builders trying to sell sponsors, but it does nothing for the tgp owner... so... don't, hold, your, breath. your best bet is to just start a tgp with the rules that you think are ideal, and band together with people that feel the same way about it. but you aren't going to be able to change what everyone else is doing

and the kazaa issue.... awesome idea

oldtimer · 04-13-2003, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by teas0r
on this whole tgp, tgp2 issue...

i just checked out the tgp2 web ring and i tell you what.... those are some of the shittiest sites i have ever seen. maybe i missed the "cool ones" or something, but for the most part they suck... the list sites and the galleries both. most of them had 0 personality, and the ones that did try to have some personality just sucked.

and everyone talking about tgps switching to a max # of pics, 15 or something, good luck. the more pics they have, the more they can convince their surfers to keep coming back. it may be the best move for gallery builders trying to sell sponsors, but it does nothing for the tgp owner... so... don't, hold, your, breath. your best bet is to just start a tgp with the rules that you think are ideal, and band together with people that feel the same way about it. but you aren't going to be able to change what everyone else is doing

You sound like another ex surfer. some of you guys should shake your head and ask yourselves if your in business to make money or just here to entertain mooches.

04-13-2003, 11:31 AM	#1
bristol Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 61	the flood of free porn: TGP's should act. the internet is a flood of free porn. in my view the tgp's should be taking active steps to reduce the amount of site exposure they currently endulge in. i firmly believe a reduction in the amount of sites they list will increase webmaster profitability and they themselves yield a greater return on spots they sell. i am in favour of a cartel or the act of collusion.

04-13-2003, 11:36 AM	#2
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	always a good idea, been tried, never works. the amount of free porn will continue to grown unabated. don't see anything to stop it. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

04-13-2003, 11:38 AM	#3
Exxxotica Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Oregun Posts: 4,396	You've just figured this out now? __________________ Needs some really great hosting? Black Seven note: I do not work for Blackseven... Im just grateful for their kick ass hosting...so quit bothering them when I hurt your feelings... pussy

04-13-2003, 11:43 AM	#6
Lane Will code for food... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Buckeye, AZ Posts: 8,496	the real problem is free porn without the ads.. the real problem is the 1hr long dvd rips you can download from kazaa during your sleep. i've asked people... they simply stopped surfing for porn after they discovered kazaa.. i can't even imagine how much that program harms the industry.. __________________

04-13-2003, 11:46 AM	#9
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	I've said it before... if we work together, we can destroy the kazaa porn scene in a matter of days. __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

04-13-2003, 11:40 AM	#4
bristol Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 61	no obviously.. but sometimes people need to be reminded of the simple things.

04-13-2003, 11:43 AM	#5
ItBurnsWhenIpee Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Beach, SoCal Posts: 1,288	Good idea of course but who's gonna be the first TGP to reduce their free porn? I know it won't be me if a lot of other people are still giving it away

04-13-2003, 11:46 AM	#8
the real magoo So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: EU Posts: 1,637	There should be MORE free porn, not less.. If you can´t make money on online sex: http://www.mcdonalds.com

04-13-2003, 11:48 AM	#10
bristol Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 61	care to elaborate, punkworld?

04-13-2003, 11:48 AM	#11
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	Well there is one thing that if done will increase revenue by 1000% If a company like CyberCat Inc. that controls millions of hits a day makes all the galleries show thumbs only the conversion rates will go crazy. The ones who will run to other TGP's are the ones who won't sign up anyway. I know this wont happen because as long as there are webmasters submitting there will be TGP's linking __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

04-13-2003, 11:51 AM	#12
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	Fake files, and lots of them. If a few dozen (or few hundred, even) webmasters all start spamming kazaa with crappy vids/ogrish-like vids/blank vids/etc, targetting all the main keywords and such, kazaa porn will greatly diminish. Eventually, it will even die out. __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

04-13-2003, 11:56 AM	#14
MattO The O is for Oohhh Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: AUSTIN TEJAS Posts: 10,861	I'll get filling up my Kazaa directory immediately... gotta watermark some blank video files first heheheh

04-13-2003, 11:58 AM	#15
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	Something that might work as well is putting up heavily censored stuff (no genitals, no nipples). That might even work better, since more people will keep them on their computers and they will get distributed faster. (the other thing works as well though, since many people don't delete stuff immediately) __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

04-13-2003, 11:59 AM	#16
Lane Will code for food... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Buckeye, AZ Posts: 8,496	there is a way to make a movie clip popup browser windows with whatever url you want.. anyone know how to do that? __________________

04-13-2003, 12:08 PM	#18
Tuga Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portugal Posts: 7,678	This is a very cool ideia but it must be on a website to work... this thread may be hot today and gone tomorrow... let's do it! __________________ Go Fuck Yourself! ICQ 101411627

04-13-2003, 12:10 PM	#19
bristol Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 61	any way this can be done on a dedicated server on a shitty 10mbit cogentco conn?

04-13-2003, 12:13 PM	#20
foreverjason Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,452	free porn on the internet I think will always be a way of life, just make money off the freebies!

04-13-2003, 12:15 PM	#21
MattO The O is for Oohhh Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: AUSTIN TEJAS Posts: 10,861	the more servers the better. I'll leave mine on all the time and see what happens. What would be good would be a bulk copier, re-namer, keyword'er that would take a single file and make thousands of copies with keywords selected from a list. Yea, that'd be good.

04-13-2003, 01:08 PM	#25
OzKaNoz Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Deep With In Your Mind Posts: 1,834	I agree something needs to be done about programs like Kazaa or Kazoo or whatever it's call. I think most know my feeling about to much free porn. I don't like and yes Tgp2 is the answer to that and does work well. If you need more info on Tgp2 just go to the Tgp2 WebRing link in my sig. There are links there to many Tgp2 resources. Btw, before anyone says other wise Tgp2 is doing good and growing again. If you haven't looked at Tgp2 lately, it's change and the rules are standardized. No flames please. It's not needed because many of the regular tgp's are starting to see the value in tgp2 and are listing them along side of tgp galleries. Oz __________________ Techie Media Web Hosting

04-13-2003, 01:11 PM	#26
Babaganoosh ♥♥♥ Likes Hugs ♥♥♥ Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: /home Posts: 15,841	It's nice in theory but unfortunately TGPs and free porn are here to stay. Either adapt or become extinct. Also, TGP2 was another good idea but surfers hate it and without surfers...well...you know. Quit crying and adapt. That's all that can be done. __________________ I like pie.

04-13-2003, 01:20 PM	#27
FATPad Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,693	The surfers didn't necessarily hate TGP2. Most of the TGP2's were run as CJ's though, and that's what they hated. Not to mention all the TGP2 gallery builders thought "less pics" and "easier rules" meant submitting complete shit galleries with blurry thumbs and 350 pixel wide garbage full size pics. But yes, TGP's are here to stay. Good luck convincing the large TGP's that are already making good money that they're doing it all wrong and need to change. Someone somewhere has to be making money off the TGP model or it wouldn't exist anymore. __________________ <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

04-13-2003, 01:23 PM	#28
Kevlar Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 309	Just forget about wasting your time in TGPs, unless you're the hun they stoped being profitable 4 years ago. 1:500 is not a number a bulker has ever seen. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

04-13-2003, 01:24 PM	#29
rooster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,384	The only one that can liberate us from the brutal reign of TGPs is Mr. Bush.

04-13-2003, 01:26 PM	#30
aleck Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 940	1:200...1:500 r ok for me __________________ come trade shemale traffic here

04-13-2003, 01:41 PM	#32
extreme Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: lalaland Posts: 2,120	Hmm, the only losers here are the TGPs? Someone remind me exactly why they should support this? __________________ Browse and find new paysites with screenshot-preview Export FHGs/FLVs/Paysites by JSON, XML, CSV and Text Find FHGs/FLVs/Paysites from any given Category or Search-query

04-13-2003, 01:42 PM	#33
Jimmer Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Waterloo Ont Posts: 878	I was running a TGP2 now it is a TGP that accepts 5 pics and up because I'm not getting enough submissions. I was making a 80-100 bucks a week on a lousy 2k a day. Imagine if I had some real traffic. There is no reason that people should not accept 5 pic galleries and reduce their maximum pics to 16.

04-13-2003, 01:56 PM	#35
Jimmer Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Waterloo Ont Posts: 878	it tells you all about this in Andy Dunn's newsletters

04-13-2003, 02:07 PM	#36
polish_aristocrat Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 40,377	about Kazaa - it doesn't necessarly hurt the conversion ratio since - as someone already told - ppl who 'discovered" Kazaa aren't SURFING for porn anyway. But I agree that it should be stopped and any idea like this deserves every webmaster support. about TGP's - I like the idea to implement a maximum number of thumbs rule. It won't hurt the TGP owners, if there's a 15 or even 12 thumb maximum rule ( yes, I still see galleries with 25 thumbs which doesn't completely make sence ). __________________ I don't use ICQ anymore.

04-13-2003, 02:55 PM	#38
Gasper Guest Posts: n/a	Well, someone should post some easy steps how to make fake images or movies .. Well, my first one. 1. take some non adult image and rename it to something adult and also make an adult description for it. then copy it to the shared folder of kazaa. also give it the BEST rating.

04-13-2003, 02:59 PM	#39
FlyingIguana aspiring banker Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: toronto Posts: 10,870	the flood of shitty sites: paysites should act. thats the real problem in this industry

04-13-2003, 03:45 PM	#41
notion Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: el toro, ca. Posts: 293	What we need is a set of 20 or so movies (per niche) [faked of course] that all the webmasters who want to participate have; so that our movies will appear with the most users / bandwidth. __________________ sekz.

04-13-2003, 07:00 PM	#44
inthestars Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 2,021	I've done Kazaa spamming and it isn't easy.. you need about 100,000 files to really see good money. On a dedicated server, plan on burning through 100 gig a day...

04-13-2003, 07:18 PM	#45
SothArtist Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 366	I downloaded a vid from Kazaa ... purely for research purposes ofcourse. When i ran it, it said you then had to pay to see it. Was a wmv file I think. It pissed me off no end. That might an option also.

04-13-2003, 07:21 PM	#46
inthestars Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 2,021	yep, you just encode your url in the wmv file and it gives a pop up when played..

04-13-2003, 10:07 PM	#49
teas0r Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 48	on this whole tgp, tgp2 issue... i just checked out the tgp2 web ring and i tell you what.... those are some of the shittiest sites i have ever seen. maybe i missed the "cool ones" or something, but for the most part they suck... the list sites and the galleries both. most of them had 0 personality, and the ones that did try to have some personality just sucked. and everyone talking about tgps switching to a max # of pics, 15 or something, good luck. the more pics they have, the more they can convince their surfers to keep coming back. it may be the best move for gallery builders trying to sell sponsors, but it does nothing for the tgp owner... so... don't, hold, your, breath. your best bet is to just start a tgp with the rules that you think are ideal, and band together with people that feel the same way about it. but you aren't going to be able to change what everyone else is doing and the kazaa issue.... awesome idea Last edited by teas0r; 04-13-2003 at 10:11 PM..