pornJester

the iraqi people seem happy that we are there, why can't the hippies give it a rest?

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X37375787

it's all staged!

DirtyDanza

they forgot we won.... to many brown ones....

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SothArtist

Hehe because the hippies live in a society thats free and allows them to protest. Freedom bought by people who lay their lives down so those fuckers can protest. Maybe they should move somewhere they are not so free and see how they feel then.

Joe Sixpack

I'd prefer to chat to a hippie who obviously has independent thoughts than a conformist soldier who's traded his individuality for a uniform. Taking orders is for idiots and those incapable of thinking for themselves.

pornJester

If everyone believed & practiced this, would it not create anarchy?

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galleryseek

or maybe just cause they believe in something??

Joe Sixpack

Sorry but I have no time for those who trade in their individuality.

I understand that the system needs fresh conformist meat to die for political and economic reasons but I can never respect that decision.

Hippies and other free thinkers and non-conformists believe things too, just different things. They just don't let others tell them what to believe.

I prefer communicating with those who can think for themselves.

bhutocracy

all the people that agree with their governments decisions should move to somewhere where they are not free and see how they feel then.

SothArtist

Not a bad idea. Then they would know they were right in their beliefs

shermo

Ever heard of a thing called propaganda? You are just as brainwashed as every George Bush worshiper in this country. For happy Iraqi's, they sure looked pissed off when they were firing automatic weapons at the CNN reporter's crew last night.

Take your head out of your ass and respect that some people oppose the war. We respect that you're in support of it, so be happy and have a beer.

bhutocracy

that made even less sense than your previous post.

SothArtist

Easy to sprout off like you are when you live in a free society isn't it?

bhutocracy

do you have a relevant point or are you going to start telling me grass is green?

Joe Sixpack

Well thats what a free society is all about, isn't it?

There are those that think for themselves, like Bhutocracy, and express opinions contrary to the regime if that's the view their conclusions lead them to... and there are those that have to be told what to believe because they're incapable of thinking for themselves.

SothArtist

If my point is as obvious as the grass being green, you should not have to ask.

bhutocracy

I don't think for myself I am a product of my environment and souless deterministic atom-crashing

bhutocracy

that grass is green is obvious, but it doesn't make it relevant to the discussion, much like vacuously saying people that protest should live somewhere where they can't - as if when came back they wouldn't protest even more.

galleryseek

you tend to look at it from a very narrow minded perspective. most people just want to be happy, and their actions reflect their attempts to reach it. so when it comes to reasoning pertaining to the military, most of these people are trying to reach that goal. and many of them are happy they're able to be apart of something. now i know you're referring to these people as being "brainwashed" in a sense due to government and what not, but it all depends on how strongly a person feels on such issues. and for whatever reason you feel strongly about it. but you have to look at both hands of the situation here... you're saying "free thinkers" and "non-conformists" aren't brainwashed, in a sense everyone is, people just react differently to it. but thats not to say that the people who believe in their country are being "controlled".

there are people like you who're sheep.
there are people like you who are individual in their views...

and there are people who profess pride/patriotism who're sheep.
and there are people who profess pride/patriotism who're individual, and true to themselves in their views.

its all relative. i try to remind myself to stay neutral on these issues, cause to think you know whats going on is showing your own ignorance.

SothArtist

Well, All I can only say that I made my point, which was extremely obvious. What was yours?

pornJester

Ok hippie, so you think the Iraqi people were better off before?

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Brown Bear

In my experience, most so called "non-comformists" and "free-thinkers" are exactly the opposite. They are just conforming to the being non-comformists. Somewhere along their life, they fell into being a part of a group of "non-conformists" and "free-thinkers", and they conform to the rules, traditions, and thoughts of that group. They even feel the need to wear the traditional uniform which is often dreadlocks, clothes made from hemp, etc...

Within their little group, they strive to be more "non-conformists" then everyone else, because that would make them soooo cool.

Being a hippy is the same as being a part of any group, like goths, ravers, jocks, skaters, etc... They might not conform to the mainstream world, but they are comformists within their own group, and they are far from "free-thinkers", they simply take on the ideas and beliefs of their group.

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bhutocracy

As i've made it abundantly clear : that your point was irrelevant. then vacuous.. then facile.

shermo

Did I ever say they weren't? It's their damn country, they need to tend to it. We're in a huge national debt now because little George had to finish his dad's work for him. Why don't we get our shit together before we police the rest of the world?

And please don't call me a hippie. I'd be more than happy to break a skull if somebody threatened me directly.

SothArtist

Oh your breaking my heart

Joe Sixpack

I don't believe any priest, politician or corporate marketing and anyone who does is an idiot.

Patriotism, or more correctly Nationalism, like religion is for those incapable of thinking for themselves. That's why you have to be indoctrinated in it from birth... say that retarded pledge of allegience every day at school so you don't forget it.

It IS all relative. To hundreds of millions of people you, your country and what you stand for is completely evil. Do you ever think about why that is? Do you ever consider views from a non-American point of view? Do you ever consider that maybe everything you have been taught and everything you believe in is a pile of bullshit? I don't know but I hope so. But i digress.

I don't believe that anyone in the armed forces can be described as a free thinker or a non-conformist because they gave up their individuality to wear a uniform and take orders and be told who to hate, who to kill and what to think. That is the very antithesis of non-conformity. I understand that these people need to exist but I cannot respect them. And my brother is a major in the Australian army so this is also a very personal issue for me.

Brown Bear

How many anti-war protesters do you think have ever lived in Iraq?

I've never lived in Iraq, but I have met Iraqis, and I've asked them their opinions of Saddam.

Guess what they've all told me?

They all hate Saddam.

So who am I to disagree with them?

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bhutocracy

The next time people complain that the law is too lenient on criminals or that aboriginies get too many handouts I'm going to tell them that if they don't like it they can leave the country, and they should go live somewhere where they aren't free. Unpatriotic bastards criticising our leniency on criminals and whinging about having too many boat people or that aboriginals get too many handouts. Go to russia!

bhutocracy

can we have make-up sex?

bhutocracy

they're protestors though, the patriotic iraqi's told them that if they don't like it there they should leave.

SothArtist

lol I'll pay that one

As long as I am on top

bhutocracy

To be serious though, judging the mood of a countries residents by the ones oppressed enough to leave isn't exactly empirically sound. Especially in a factionalised region like Iraq.

bhutocracy

as long as I get the courtesy of a reach-around.

Joe Sixpack

How do you conform to being a non-conformist?

I'm not part of a group of non-conformists or free thinkers and I do no conform to anyones rules, traditions or thoughts. I do not have dreadlocks or any clothes made from hemp.

I'm also not a hippy and not all those that are against war are hippies. In fact, not all non-conformists or free thinkers are hippies. Many of them are teachers, scientists, philosophers, maybe even housewives, whatever...

But I will guarantee you one thing... NONE of them are soldiers.

Jakki

Well, they wouldn't be hippies if they did, would they??

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galleryseek

I agree with most of what you said, but... don't you think that is a tad bit exaggerated to say that people who profess a belief in religion / nationalism / patriotism are incapable of thinking for themselves??

there are some of which who can fit under those categories who're able to think for themselves, but have been affected by either or in such a way that they fully invest their honest faith within. for instance, in the military there are those who follow commands, not to blindly accept them, but because they believe in the cause without any regard to "spoonfed" nationalism. so in that manner, there are those who are free thinkers within the military. same with religion, there are people who have experienced things, or atleast "know(think)" they have experienced things that leads directly to a god, to the extent at which they know it happened just as you know your name. and they follow religion under a "free" mind capable of thinking. of course there aren't many of those because there is usually speculation...

but i think your statement was a tad bit exaggerated. it doesn't apply to all.

SothArtist

Hmm... ok. But will you still respect me in the morning?

pornJester

I'm not pro-Bush by any stretch of the phrase. And if the hippies are pissed because Gov't spending cuts into their welfare checks, then they need to cut their nappy hair off and trade in that tie-dye for a collar and get a better job. Personally i think if the Bush administration is busy with Iraq, that leaves less time to breathe down our porn peddling necks.

And another thing, if the hippies want to spend their time doing something that will really be of help to war stricken people, why don't they volunteer for the Red Cross or Peace Corps instead of standing on street corners.

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bhutocracy

sure.. i'll y'know.. call you later.

421Fill

GallerySeek, you raise very good points. Where is it written that just because someone is patriotic that they are so, due only to being brainwashed or sheep, or conformist? In my opinion, that stance is very prejudiced. I for one, support the war, but know for a fact that I am not a conformist by any stretch of the imagination, regardless of whether or not people like JoeSixpack think that I am. I know who and what I stand for, and that cannot be determined by my opinions on one topic or general area of topics.

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Gman.357

Hmmm. Hippies are all free thinkers? Wasn't there a "Manson Cult" that consisted primarily of hippies? People in a cult aren't free thinkers.

In fact, the whole hippie movement of the late 60's/early 70's consisted of a whole lot of people who simply "followed" some radical movement because it was the "cool" thing to do at the time. Hell, any lifestyle that promotes drug use and free love must have been appealing to the underdeveloped minds of the masses just coming into or out of puberty in that era.

Everyone is brainwashed in one way or another. Don't fool yourself into thinking your mind is all your own.

Everything you see and hear when you are young can influence you. YOu conform when you follow either path... be it conservative or radical, or whatever else "category" there is for a way of thinking these days.

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Joe Sixpack

And who the fuck said that?

Gman.357

No one came out and said it, but that's what some seem to imply.

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Ouch.

Joe Sixpack

Who?

... and I want to see a quote.

421Fill

Joe, you implied that all hippies are free thinkers here.

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Gman.357

Fine...

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Ouch.

Gman.357

That seems to imply that hippies are free thinkers and non-conformists. Just making it clear that they are not all that way.

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Ouch.

Gman.357

I'd just like to point out also, that I've met plenty of folks who dress in suits and ties, and even uniforms that also have great ideas for change in certain areas of life, and can "think for themselves" rather well. Without having to take orders.

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Ouch.

Joe Sixpack

Okay, I may have added to the confusion there.

I guess it all depends on how you define hippy doesn't it? According to conservatives anyone who protests anything that the majority are in favour of is a hippy. I guess that is what i was referring to... because as far as I was concerned that was the frame of reference. I should have been more specific.

I certainly don't believe all hippies are free thinkers though many might be. I don't even know how many "hippies" would label themselves that way. These days that seems to be a derogatory label used by conservatives in an attempt to discredit someones views. A true free thinker lets nobody tell him what to believe... be that government, media, religion... any organisation.

Gman.357

Ok. I'll agree with you there.

I personally don't like labels. Be it "hippie" or "conservative". I just don't see how any one person can share all the same views of another. There's things that I certainly don't agree with that others who call themselves conservatives do, and things that so-called hippies say that I do agree with. I wouldn't call myself a true free thinker either though, because I am influenced by a lot of different things in my life.

I tend to think most people are though. Unless they live in the woods and don't have TV or radio or the web.

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Ouch.