Fact: Even with INCREASED minimum wages, HIRING continues to GROW

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  • mineistaken
    See signature :)
    • Apr 2007
    • 29656

    #16
    Originally posted by crockett
    You are just making excuses because you were one of the doom and gloomers chanting about how business would run away.

    It didn't, because they simply raised the min wage to match current inflation.
    First, they raised it WAAAAYYYYYYY more than inflation, secondly how do you know if businesses did not flee to surrounding counties or basiocally rest of the country where that wage was not increased?

    Comment

    • crockett
      in a van by the river
      • May 2003
      • 76818

      #17
      Originally posted by mineistaken
      First, they raised it WAAAAYYYYYYY more than inflation, secondly how do you know if businesses did not flee to surrounding counties or basiocally rest of the country where that wage was not increased?
      No it's not.. It's literally right in the middle of both high and low estimates. The low would be $12/hr the high being $21. the difference comes down to how it's calculated. They set the min to be right in the middle of the high/low and also used cost of living in that city to determine it.

      The fact that the economy in that city is doing just fine shows they picked a reasonable rate.
      In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

      Comment

      • Rochard
        Jägermeister Test Pilot
        • Dec 2001
        • 75733

        #18
        Did anyone read the article? It seems the minimum wage has little impact there. Most of the jobs are high tech and construction, and most jobs paid over $15 an hour already.

        From the article itself:

        Much of that success, though, can be attributed to trends separate from the minimum-wage law itself, such as the growth of Seattle?s tech sector and its construction boom, according to a new report that University of Washington researchers presented to the City Council on Monday.
        Herschel Savage
        Brooklyn, NY

        Comment

        • Bladewire
          StraightBro
          • Aug 2003
          • 56228

          #19
          Originally posted by crockett
          No it's not.. It's literally right in the middle of both high and low estimates. The low would be $12/hr the high being $21. the difference comes down to how it's calculated. They set the min to be right in the middle of the high/low and also used cost of living in that city to determine it.

          The fact that the economy in that city is doing just fine shows they picked a reasonable rate.
          When I lived in Australia the minimum wage was $17 an hour, $600 a week roughly, and rent was dirt cheap as was food. That was the MINIMUM wage. I asked this waitress at a hole in the wall cafe how much she made and she got $20 an hour.

          America has been far behind the times internationally for 20 or so years.

          Over the 5 year's I lived there, EVERYONE I met over 30 OWNED an apartment they rented out and OWNED a home they lived in, most owned recreational boats. These were not rich people these were people with one full time job. This is why i, as an American, went through the citizenship process in Australia


          Skype: CallTomNow

          Comment

          • baddog
            So Fucking Banned
            • Apr 2001
            • 107089

            #20
            Originally posted by crockett
            You are just making excuses because you were one of the doom and gloomers chanting about how business would run away.

            It didn't, because they simply raised the min wage to match current inflation.
            You didn't read the article.

            Comment

            • baddog
              So Fucking Banned
              • Apr 2001
              • 107089

              #21
              You guys realize they are not at $15 yet, right?

              Comment

              • baddog
                So Fucking Banned
                • Apr 2001
                • 107089

                #22
                Originally posted by Rochard
                Did anyone read the article? It seems the minimum wage has little impact there. Most of the jobs are high tech and construction, and most jobs paid over $15 an hour already.

                From the article itself:

                Much of that success, though, can be attributed to trends separate from the minimum-wage law itself, such as the growth of Seattle?s tech sector and its construction boom, according to a new report that University of Washington researchers presented to the City Council on Monday.
                Obviously they didn't.

                Comment

                • Klen
                  • Aug 2006
                  • 32235

                  #23
                  Originally posted by $5 submissions
                  You're saying that the SERVICE and MANUFACTURING sectors are SO DIFFERENT that they react differently from increased wages? Which differences account for the difference in effect?
                  Exactly. If you produce let say spoons, you have fixed cost to make them and fixed profit and if constant of fixed cost is changed, then entire bussiness is in danger. Tho, you could eventually increase profit if you make those spoons to look pretty like apple did it with phones, or if you put a fancy name on it like Dr.dre did it, but those are exceptions, not rule.

                  While as service provider, you can always provide better service and always find a clientele with different purchase power. For example, i remember how you called yourself once a "flee market seo seller" but i am sure you can raise your prices 10x more and still find clients.

                  Comment

                  • Barry-xlovecam
                    It's 42
                    • Jun 2010
                    • 18083

                    #24
                    Sorry if you have to work for minimum wage rates but look what states have the lowest wage rates ...

                    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...e-by-us-state/ <chart

                    ^^ maybe, manufacturing spoons are too low of value added to be made domestically at a livable wage?

                    Comment

                    • Paul Markham
                      Too old to care
                      • Jun 2001
                      • 52942

                      #25
                      Originally posted by crockett
                      Please don't confuse "conventional" with ideology. Anyone with half a brain understands the more people making money means more people spending money which means growing economy. It just has to grow at a healthy pace.

                      The only people who like to pretend this doesn't work are right wing bats who just want you to believe trickle down economics works. What is happening in Seattle "IS" conventional economic theory at play..
                      If trickle down worked. Family incomes would be on the rise over more percentile than the top 20%.

                      Your mistake is ion thinking "the more people making money means more people spending money". Not if a worker on $40 an hour gets made redundant and goes on to get a job at $15 an hour. Which has been happening for the last 20 years.



                      Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
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                      • Paul Markham
                        Too old to care
                        • Jun 2001
                        • 52942

                        #26
                        Originally posted by crockett
                        I don't need to read an article, the basic fact is they raised min wage to $15/hr and jobs did not run away... I don't need need to read an article of excuses as to why the doom & gloom didn't happen.. I understand basic economy.

                        More money in the hands of more people equals more spending which equals more economy. It's very simple. but as always things must be kept in check.. $15/hr is sustainable but trying to raise min wage to $30 would not for example. Wages "HAVE" to be kept in check with inflation and that's what they did..

                        The reason our middle class is shrinking is because wages have not kept up with inflation and people are incurring more debt as a result. More debt is good for the 1% but not good for growing the economy or the middle class.

                        One half of our govt understands this, the other half pretends not to because they only care about the 1%..
                        But it hasn't worked like that over the last 20 years. more money has been flowing into the hands of fewer people all the time.

                        As you say the middle class is struggling, the working class are in a bad way and some are sunk without Government support.

                        The problem comes when a $30 an hour job is replaced by a $15 an hour job. And that;s the trend.



                        Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
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                        Comment

                        • Paul Markham
                          Too old to care
                          • Jun 2001
                          • 52942

                          #27
                          Originally posted by KlenTelaris
                          Exactly. If you produce let say spoons, you have fixed cost to make them and fixed profit and if constant of fixed cost is changed, then entire bussiness is in danger. Tho, you could eventually increase profit if you make those spoons to look pretty like apple did it with phones, or if you put a fancy name on it like Dr.dre did it, but those are exceptions, not rule.

                          While as service provider, you can always provide better service and always find a clientele with different purchase power. For example, i remember how you called yourself once a "flee market seo seller" but i am sure you can raise your prices 10x more and still find clients.
                          The real problem is when the spoon maker decides to move to China. Look at the decline of US production and the growth of China's.

                          Where are Apple Phones made? Or most makes of electrical gadgets.



                          Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                          PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                          Comment

                          • crockett
                            in a van by the river
                            • May 2003
                            • 76818

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Paul Markham
                            If trickle down worked. Family incomes would be on the rise over more percentile than the top 20%.

                            Your mistake is ion thinking "the more people making money means more people spending money". Not if a worker on $40 an hour gets made redundant and goes on to get a job at $15 an hour. Which has been happening for the last 20 years.
                            But that's not what this is about. This is about that worker being able to be paid a livable wage if he loses his $40/hr job.

                            Don't try to make this about something else because you know the ideology you want ti support is a failure.
                            In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

                            Comment

                            • crockett
                              in a van by the river
                              • May 2003
                              • 76818

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Paul Markham
                              But it hasn't worked like that over the last 20 years. more money has been flowing into the hands of fewer people all the time.

                              As you say the middle class is struggling, the working class are in a bad way and some are sunk without Government support.

                              The problem comes when a $30 an hour job is replaced by a $15 an hour job. And that;s the trend.
                              It hasn't worked like that because it became more important to pay CEOS and shareholders all the corporate profits at the expense of the workers. In a quest to keep pushing constant profits for shareholders, wages were reduced and then the jobs shipped overseas so wages could be reduced even more.

                              This came because of failed trickle down economics.. Reagan was the first to open the doors to China and everyone since has left them open.

                              Corporations like trickle down because they benifit. The average worker gets fucked though and that's where the govt should be trying to protect them.
                              In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

                              Comment

                              • imabro
                                Confirmed User
                                • Aug 2007
                                • 871

                                #30
                                Originally posted by crockett
                                But that's not what this is about. This is about that worker being able to be paid a livable wage if he loses his $40/hr job.

                                Don't try to make this about something else because you know the ideology you want ti support is a failure.
                                Not sure I understand that comment; is it your contention that the guy that lost his $40/hour job can pick up a $15/hour job?

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