If your partnership program doesn't suck -- put your money where your mouth is. - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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TheFLY

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#1

If your partnership program doesn't suck -- put your money where your mouth is.

04-07-2003, 10:58 AM

Pay per click nigga... If you aren't confident enough in your program to pay per click -- then obviously your shit sucks and you don't even have much confidence in it...

If your program is really hot -- prove it. Pay $.06/click like Lensman... as your program gets better you keep the profits and rebills and nobody accuses you of shaving signups... everone stays honest.
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TheFLY

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#2

04-07-2003, 10:59 AM

The reason none of these partnership programs can pay per click:

1. They are broke.
2. They are too dumb to detect hitbots.
3. Nobody would use their shit, because they could only pay $.005/click.
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#3

04-07-2003, 11:02 AM

We use to pay $0.08 per clicks but webmasters with brain in their heads were telling us all the time that they want a per signup program so we have changed it.
Now we have webmasters doing $0.4 per click

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#4

04-07-2003, 11:03 AM

Anyone that wants traffic from you -- all you have to do is say, "I want X per click." Then they will sqirm and say "oooh no, you got to sign up for my partnership thing -- yeah it converts 1:118 yeah yeah" -- BULLSHIT... Haha... they can claim 1:118 because maybe they got 2000 hits to their site total and they signed up to their own site 8 times just to see if it was working...

If they can't pay you per click then obviously they don't even trust their own program... and so you can ignore their great conversion ratio claims...
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#5

04-07-2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by traffic addict
We use to pay $0.08 per clicks but webmasters with brain in their heads were telling us all the time that they want a per signup program so we have changed it.
Now we have webmasters doing $0.4 per click

Yeah so you admit people are dumb. Well I'm here to inform them they they are getting fucked in the ass by guys like you... Join up to AP and you can see your money being made in realtime -- and Lensman doesn't cancel you for low ratios as long as you follow the rules -- the guy stands behind his $.06 and that's the way it's been for YEARS and YEARS... It fucking converts and the $.06/click is proof that it converts. You can claim all the ratios that you want -- but these are just claims... If you can't back up your claims by buying traffic at a $/click rate then you are just full of shit.
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#6

04-07-2003, 11:08 AM

Your plan works great for any program that has the money on hand to make payouts, and to set up a system that ensures that people don't cheat. However, there's no reason to assume that just because someone hasn't gone for that option, that their program sucks.

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#7

04-07-2003, 11:11 AM

Think of this -- you build like 50 domains -- and you got AP clickpic on all of them... If you were on a partnership program you would be watching 10 clicks here, 5 clicks there, 20 clicks blah blah but you would never be able to see any trends because for all you fucking know the partnership program that you are using will convert 1:200 the first week and then drop to like 1:3000 the next week -- and we know this fucking happens with a LOT of good programs like oxcash... so you just wasted all fucking 50 domains when you could have been pushing something that pays out NO MATTER what the circumstances... If these guys don't stand behind their program consistently by paying per click, you are just wasting time... As an advertiser isn't not your responsibility to worry about ratios -- that is the program's problem... It's your job to get the traffic -- let the fucking owner worry about ratios and credit card processors and tours -- because that is their fucking job! That is what they have CONTROL over -- you don't have control over any of that shit so why do you waste time worrying about ratios that you can't even change!!!! Go with something solid that pays per click and you can get on with life instead of watching stats every fucking day.
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#8

04-07-2003, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by TheFLY

Yeah so you admit people are dumb. Well I'm here to inform them they they are getting fucked in the ass by guys like you... Join up to AP and you can see your money being made in realtime -- and Lensman doesn't cancel you for low ratios as long as you follow the rules -- the guy stands behind his $.06 and that's the way it's been for YEARS and YEARS... It fucking converts and the $.06/click is proof that it converts. You can claim all the ratios that you want -- but these are just claims... If you can't back up your claims by buying traffic at a $/click rate then you are just full of shit.

You can put words in my mouth, but it doesn't make them mine
I never said that webmasters are dumb, but I said that a webmaster that has good traffic would like to get a per signup program, because he can do $0.4 per click and not just the $0.06 you are paying them

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#9

04-07-2003, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by gothweb
Your plan works great for any program that has the money on hand to make payouts, and to set up a system that ensures that people don't cheat. However, there's no reason to assume that just because someone hasn't gone for that option, that their program sucks.

Yeah so you agree with me -- if you don't have money on hand -- then the program is obviously not a success yet -- so why should we try it?

YOu have a niche program so you can't convert anyone's traffic... so you could never pay for 1st page clicks... UNLESS you payed for 2nd or 3rd page clicks -- so you have some proof that the surfer is obviously interested in your content. Raise the payout to a fair level for like 3rd page clicks and I bet you will get a LOT more people sending you traffic... If an advertiser isn't getting realtime feedback then they lose interest... And seriously most traffic guys are sending clicks to dozens of program -- and if they can't see the money coming in right off the line -- then you will end up in the wastebasket.
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#10

04-07-2003, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by traffic addict

You can put words in my mouth, but it doesn't make them mine
I never said that webmasters are dumb, but I said that a webmaster that has good traffic would like to get a per signup program, because he can do $0.4 per click and not just the $0.06 you are paying them

So in other words, pay them less because they don't know any better...
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#11

04-07-2003, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by TheFLY

So in other words, pay them less because they don't know any better...

That is excatly what you are doing by paying them only $0.06 per click

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#12

04-07-2003, 11:19 AM

What about the Lensman's partnership program??
71% and rebil, is it good??l

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#13

04-07-2003, 11:21 AM

Webmasters needs to get a fucking bad convert rate of 1:666 to get the $40 per signup that I pay them, from your program

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#14

04-07-2003, 11:22 AM

Just imagine HOW MUCH TRAFFIC AND MONEY a paysite loses because of the following scenario...

1. Paysite converts 1:600 (ON AVERAGE for 100's of webmasters)
2. 100 webmasters sign up
3. Each of them send 600 clicks.
4. Do the statistics if you know the math, but I'm guessing about 50 of these webmasters will do better than 1:600, and the other 50 will do WORSE than 1:600... NOT BECAUSE YOUR PROGRAM sucks, but just because stastically speaking these webmasters never sent enough traffic to see how well your program really performs... So essentially you lost HALF of your webmasters -- and now these guys will tell all their friends (yeah I sent 600 targeted surfers and I didn't make one fucking sale so I pulled out)...

See my point here? If you were paying them all the $/click from the beginning of what the traffic was really worth to you (given the larger quantity of data at your disposal to determine what traffic is really worth) -- you would have a lot MORE webmasters pushing your program!
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#15

04-07-2003, 11:26 AM

Part of your job with an affiliate program is to attract and keep as many webmasters happy as you possibly can! It's easy to keep the heavy hitters happy, but remember this industry is full of a TON of part-time webmasters and COMBINED these guys move TONS of traffic... Why do you think GFY is so fucking huge? Lots of part-timer (weekend) webmasters... I know on Sunday night, my ICQ list blows up! That's when everyone is working...

An affiliate program should be looking at trends and the bigger picture to see what the clicks are worth bottom line -- then you just pay what the industry will support -- like $.04/1st page unique or something like that... you will get TONS AND TONS of traffic... especially once people trust you... Once word spreads -- "yeah this guy always pays on his click program" -- it gets you VERY HOT -- and any webmaster can build like 10 sites with any kind of fucking half-ass design -- throw up some scripts and he doesn't have to worry about sales techniques -- or ratios -- he just generates traffic... and no-brainer sites like this will have programs like Amateur Pages... Why do you think Adult.com is so huge? It's because Amateur Pages is still all over the fucking web -- and it's because everyone uses this program because it's a no-brainer way to make moeny...
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#16

04-07-2003, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by traffic addict

That is excatly what you are doing by paying them only $0.06 per click

At least it's a guarantee from week to week, month to month... Unlike most partnership programs that convert one month and the next month it's 1:3000...

Here's an example... You send 10,000 clicks one week -- you make like 17 sales so you are at around 1:600 -- so you send 10,000 clicks the next month, only this time you convert 1:3000 -- this happens ALL THE TIME!!!

Do the math! The webmaster in month #2 just wasted about 8200 clicks on your sorry fucking program that he/she could have sent to a per/click sponsor like Amateur Pages... Does this mean that his traffic declined in value? Hell no! It's just that your program turned to shit in that short time (a: it got saturated b: your cc processing is fucked or c: you decided to start shaving just because you can or d: you change the tour or e: maybe you are having hosting problems) --

As the affiliate program owner -- this is your fucking fault!!! And you will lose webmasters because of this and programs like AP that pay CONSISTENTLY will win...
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#17

04-07-2003, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Thrawn$
What about the Lensman's partnership program??
71% and rebil, is it good??l

I have no idea -- never used it.
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#18

04-07-2003, 11:36 AM

What is the link to check the stats please? lol
i can find the fucking email, i think it start with nt1.amateurpages.com/something

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#19

04-07-2003, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by TheFLY

Yeah so you agree with me -- if you don't have money on hand -- then the program is obviously not a success yet -- so why should we try it?

YOu have a niche program so you can't convert anyone's traffic... so you could never pay for 1st page clicks... UNLESS you payed for 2nd or 3rd page clicks -- so you have some proof that the surfer is obviously interested in your content. Raise the payout to a fair level for like 3rd page clicks and I bet you will get a LOT more people sending you traffic... If an advertiser isn't getting realtime feedback then they lose interest... And seriously most traffic guys are sending clicks to dozens of program -- and if they can't see the money coming in right off the line -- then you will end up in the wastebasket.

Why does lack of volume mean that a program isn't profitable for webmasters? That's what it comes down to. People like me aren't getting the traffic to invest in the kinds of things you have in mind. It doesn't mean that people who send us traffic aren't doing very well. You're oversimplifying to get attention again.

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#20

04-07-2003, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Thrawn$
What is the link to check the stats please? lol
i can find the fucking email, i think it start with nt1.amateurpages.com/something

http://ctc.amateurpages.com/cgi-bin/ctc/ctc_stats.cgi?(your number)

AHahaha I can see you making money already from my referral page!
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#21

04-07-2003, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by gothweb

That's what it comes down to. People like me aren't getting the traffic to invest in the kinds of things you have in mind. It doesn't mean that people who send us traffic aren't doing very well. You're oversimplifying to get attention again.

What the hell are you talking about? Your program has been around a long time! All you have to do is start collecting more data! You see ok, maybe 1,000,000 surfers hit the first page and I made X sales, 500,000 surfers hit the second page and I made X sales -- 100, 000 hit X page and I made X sales (ON AVERAGE) -- once you have this data you can pay/click and not worry about losing money!

This is investment that's not very difficult and it's worth the money! All you need is some fucking counters...

Look man, are you telling me that EVERYONE that tries your program gets a sale out of the first 1000 clicks that they send? I really doubt it... Most webmasters that sent 1000 to a niche program like yours and get no sales will just move on -- in fact most webmasters won't even with with your program because it IS a niche program -- so they don't even know how to push it... That's why you need to have a standardized way of promoting it -- a TESTED FORUMULA like APCLICKPIC... You get a formula for promotion down -- and you can use it OVER AND OVER again...

All any webmaser will have to do is put your advertising code into their site and they can go out and have some beers knowing that they are going to be making guaranteed $x/page-click as long as they keep your tried and tested advertising HTML code in their site...

If you have not tested advertising techniques that will work for ANY webmaster -- then you are just lazy... Are you going to just let all your advertisers do all the hard work? And then not share that effort with the other webmasters in your program? That stupid... If one of your affiliates finds a better formula -- you should share that formula with all of your affiliates... right now the "Gallery" with banners is a popular and long tested formula that works... so we have freehosted galleries... but who is paying/click to freehosted gallery banners? Nobody! This is crazy! Webmasters should demand consistency! Fucking around with so many programs SUX -- there's value in webmaster loyalty! Per/click -- build confidence -- webmaster loyalty...
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#22

04-07-2003, 12:01 PM

pete, why dont you do it?

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#23

04-07-2003, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by toodamnfli
pete, why dont you do it?

HAHA

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TheFLY

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#24

04-07-2003, 12:04 PM

Why would I be sending Lensman traffic for so many years? Sure like Boneprone I got tired of it once the click-count seemed to drop and when programs like oxcash and oliverklozov were so fucking hot -- but I always come back to Amateur Pages when ratios are acting wierd -- because if ratios are bouncing around -- I am losing money that I could be making with Amateur Pages... Seriously watching stats every day sux and all you have to do is remember why oxcash took their their message board -- most of the posts were like this "oh fuck I'm 1:10000 this week!!!" -- and then 20 (out of probably 100's of webmasters pushing it) would say "Oh shit you and me both -- this is going to hell bail out while you can!" -- and on and on it would go... and then there would be posts like "haha I'm doing 1:20" -- WTF? If some guy is doing 1:20, then that information should be standardized into the program so that EVERY WEBMASTER in the ENTIRE program is making more money...

Right?
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#25

04-07-2003, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by TheFLY

AHahaha I can see you making money already from my referral page!

Me! making money!!

that's really funny

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#26

04-07-2003, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by toodamnfli
pete, why dont you do it?

Because I don't have Playboy in my pocket... I can make good money just posting on GFY telling everyone to use AP -- because I make $.01/click off their clicks

Right now I'm getting back into running -- I want to get up to 6 miles/day like back in the day... get hooked up with a small-town Florida girl... then I will move back into the hosting industry -- maybe NY or Chicago... that's my plan.
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#27

04-07-2003, 12:12 PM

TheFLY, I like the way you think. Most of what you say makes sense, and is the basis for most pay-per-click programs, ours included.

However, one thing you have to keep in mind is that by running a pay-per-click model, rather than a per-sale (or revshare) is that you will get selected against.

Those webmasters with good traffic and good marketing savvy will continue to send to PPS programs (where they can make 40cents+ per click). Those webmasters that have shit traffic (or don't know what the fuck they are doing) will send to a PPC site.

I'm not saying that it can't be done as you describe, but you have to make sure you can convert this "shitty" traffic, or provide those techniques to the webmasters that can't or don't know how. You can't rely upon "average" data from a PPS site.

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#28

04-07-2003, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by Thrawn$

Me! making money!!

that's really funny

Hehe dude I think u are dropping the bomb I might make like an extra $3000 off referring you this month????? I hope I did my calculations correct
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TheFLY

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#29

04-07-2003, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by ravo
TheFLY, I like the way you think. Most of what you say makes sense, and is the basis for most pay-per-click programs, ours included.

However, one thing you have to keep in mind is that by running a pay-per-click model, rather than a per-sale (or revshare) is that you will get selected against.

Those webmasters with good traffic and good marketing savvy will continue to send to PPS programs (where they can make 40cents+ per click). Those webmasters that have shit traffic (or don't know what the fuck they are doing) will send to a PPC site.

I'm not saying that it can't be done as you describe, but you have to make sure you can convert this "shitty" traffic, or provide those techniques to the webmasters that can't or don't know how. You can't rely upon "average" data from a PPS site.

Ok, well please tell me where is the PPS that will make me 40cents+ per click on average!!!!!!!!!!!!!???? I just don't think it exists... unless you're talking about upsells and that sort of thing... I guess I have to agree with you there -- why send prime traffic to a per/click program but I really think the vast majority of traffic is not prequalified to have a credit card...
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#30

04-07-2003, 12:23 PM

Just imagine if you had intelligent banners that reacted like the stock market -- if your ratio dropped below 1:800 with a certain program, the banner could intelligently redirect all the traffic to a per-click sponsor... That would be some cool shit! Would be hard to negotiate because you would need permission from the per-click sponsor... I think this is the kind of innovation that someone like CE would come up...
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#31

04-07-2003, 12:24 PM

Come on you guys know about risk management if you play the stock market... Using a click program covers your ass so you don't waste traffic...
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#32

04-07-2003, 12:27 PM

I guess I prefer revshare because it encourages people to actually try to convert the traffic, and rewards people who can do it. Why would I pay someone who sends me crap traffic the same as someone who sends stuff that converts 1:40?

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#33

04-07-2003, 12:27 PM

OK, maybe 40cents+ per click was a bad example to use. But, lots are making more than 6 cents/click, and those are the WM that will continue to use a PPS site.

Cool, idea about the smart banner. But, once you've gone PPC, how do you go back to PPS?

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#34

04-07-2003, 12:28 PM

believe it or not Fly is one smart fuck...misguided, but smart..which is why he is family

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#35

04-07-2003, 12:34 PM

If you have good traffic, you are not going to send it, to a per click program.
If you want to test it, just ask join4free, freeezine, Risky, or naughty to promote your program Just don't forget to post their replay here

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#36

04-07-2003, 12:41 PM

Hey you made like 4 bucks off me today hows it feel....

and that page i have the clickpic shit only gets like 4500 uniques a day... not too shabby
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#37

04-07-2003, 12:47 PM

If they gave me a little more flexability, i could make some custom pages and rock this shit
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#38

04-07-2003, 12:47 PM

Why does my mouse have brown stains
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#39

04-07-2003, 12:49 PM

fly, you must be having problems converting your traffic?

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#40

04-07-2003, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by kmanrox
fly, you must be having problems converting your traffic?

That's exactly what I'm saying

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#41

04-07-2003, 01:37 PM

Great thread...

Something noone has touched on but could be important for newbies to know is that a Len's per click proggie may prove the difference between making it through this coming summer and being culled from the herd.
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#42

04-07-2003, 01:55 PM

No, what will help newbs make it through the summer is them waking up and discovering revshare instead of mindlesly going per signup.

I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade...

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#43

04-07-2003, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Thrawn$

Me! making money!!

that's really funny

Wow "thesecretweapon" looks like some hot shit man! This looks like something along the lines of what I'm talking about in this thread -- remove the guesswork -- analyze trends and pass on the benefit to the masses affiliates...
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#44

04-07-2003, 02:01 PM

Per click programs have very high overhead, and are very labor intensive.
You have to constantly check referring urls, have programmers that can stay a step ahead of the latest bots, get into pissing contests with cheaters on the boards, etc etc.

Most partnership programs, even the really successful and popular ones, are 2 or 3 man operations.
Just because you don't pay per click doesn't mean your program sucks.

Look at all of the paid listings on The Hun, Worldsex, etc for the past month. How many of them used a per click program for their sponsor? (I haven't looked, but I'd bet good $$ that none of them did)

Although this thread is a slightly creative and amusing way for you to spam your AP refcode again

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#45

04-07-2003, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Lenny2
Per click programs have very high overhead, and are very labor intensive.
You have to constantly check referring urls, have programmers that can stay a step ahead of the latest bots, get into pissing contests with cheaters on the boards, etc etc.

Most partnership programs, even the really successful and popular ones, are 2 or 3 man operations.
Just because you don't pay per click doesn't mean your program sucks.

Look at all of the paid listings on The Hun, Worldsex, etc for the past month. How many of them used a per click program for their sponsor? (I haven't looked, but I'd bet good $$ that none of them did)

Although this thread is a slightly creative and amusing way for you to spam your AP refcode again

Yeah, you need a programmer to detect the bots -- but really it's not that hard... All U have to do is something the bot would never think of -- like ratio of join-form submit button presses to raw clicks or something simple like that... No bot is ever going to function like a human and this kind of behavior will be easy to spot... all it takes is a programmer with half a wit to find the cheaters... Sure you are right there are more partnership programs than click programs now... but why do you think Adult.com is #1? Whoever still has a click program is going to realize the benefits...

Is it really all that more difficult to run a click program? I don't think so -- in fact it might be easier... All you have to do is watch ratios -- if somebody is doing 1:1000 or worse all you have to do is pull up some stats and the site and ask some basic questions... Please if 12Clicks can do it -- anyone can.
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#46

04-07-2003, 03:07 PM

Treat all the affiliates as one entity and I think u save a lot of customer service time...

You don't have to deal with shit like "wah wah my ratios are low what is wrong" or "can you send me some more content wah wah" -- you just pass down one formula to all the affiliates -- the all execute it exactly as you have prescribed -- and there's a lot less hassle... Then you have just one guy at the top to make sure that nobody is robbing you... sure some affiliates will fall above the average and some will fall below -- but in the end it's this security of consistent performance that will make the program more reputable and popular...
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TheFLY

So Fucking Banned

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#47

04-07-2003, 03:14 PM

For example the two most common complaints that you hear about ARS and Nastydollars...

1. Sometimes they shave really bad, sometimes they don't.
2. Sometimes the ratios rock, and other times they suck ass.
(and all variations of the same complaint)

With the exception of the guys at the top that are sending like 10-100 signups/day to a program -- who can see trends more globally... MOST webmasters will get a bad impression of these two programs -- EVEN THO they are two of the top programs in this biz!

If Nastydollars paid per click -- seriously don't you think they would be WAY more popular? They are already popular now, but I seriously think that EVERY site on the net would have a per/click banner up to Nastydollars... Think about it like this -- you make a website -- you can't really afford not to have a good per/click link on the site! When you build a new site and you throw in some banners at the bottom on low traffic positions... you don't always have the luxury of testing ratios! These are the perfect places to do per/click links!

Remember rawlikesushi? The whole concept was that you sprinkle these little buttons all over your site in low traffic places... Don't worry about ratios -- just watch money come in REALTIME....
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foreverjason

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Join Date: Mar 2003

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#48

04-07-2003, 03:51 PM

I think it all comes down to the type of site you run.

If you run a site that has proven it can get 1:250 conversions why go for PPC?

But say you run a TGP that is converting like shit, then obviously AP is where its at.
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12clicks

Too lazy to set a custom title

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#49

04-07-2003, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Lenny2
Per click programs have very high overhead, and are very labor intensive.
You have to constantly check referring urls, have programmers that can stay a step ahead of the latest bots, get into pissing contests with cheaters on the boards, etc etc.

Most partnership programs, even the really successful and popular ones, are 2 or 3 man operations.
Just because you don't pay per click doesn't mean your program sucks.

Look at all of the paid listings on The Hun, Worldsex, etc for the past month. How many of them used a per click program for their sponsor? (I haven't looked, but I'd bet good $$ that none of them did)

Although this thread is a slightly creative and amusing way for you to spam your AP refcode again

Damn Lenny, have you been hiding in my closet, watching me?

People don't run pay per click because they don't have skin thick enough to put up with assholes on chatboards.
Its not the cheater, its the cheaters 5 friends who didn't know he was cheating you have to deal with.

Besides that, no one has the skill.

I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.
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gothweb

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#50

04-07-2003, 04:30 PM

TheFLY... do you think you are that much smarter than the people who are running large, successful programs that don't do per click? If so, why don't you put your money where your mouth with. You have more of both than many of us.

Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes.
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