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bronco67

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#1

Trump and the Taiwan thing

12-02-2016, 05:29 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/02/us...hina.html?_r=0

This is just the first giant gaffe of the "bull who takes the china shop with him". I was talking sometimes a few months ago about the subtlety and nuance required by a president to interact on a international level. You have be careful, and you also have to know a few things.

Either:

Trump was clueless as to why he shouldn't be talking with Taiwan, after the US has gone to great lengths for many years to not recognize them as a government.

Trump knew what a hand grenade this call would be, and went ahead with it anyway to see what would happen -- which I doubt, because he doesn't know things.

Someone close to Trump convinced him to do this for their own end because they know he's ignorant about the possible implications.

Any one of those scenarios is BAD. Ladies and gentlemen...the president of the United States of America. Enjoy him because he's not even in office yet and already being a clueless dickhead. This is what you wanted...right?
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Bladewire

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#2

12-02-2016, 05:40 PM

Trump fails again.

He just wants to be liked by everyone, huge liability. The Electoral College has a duty to stop Trumps anointment since he lost the vote by over 2,590,000 votes and counting, it's what the Electoral College was created for.

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bronco67

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#3

12-02-2016, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Bladewire

Trump fails again.

He just wants to be liked by everyone, huge liability. The Electoral College has a duty to stop Trumps anointment since he lost the vote by over 2,590,000 votes and counting, it's what the Electoral College was created for.

Let's hope he ramps up this buffoonery until the electors have no choice but to change their vote.
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Barry-xlovecam

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#4

12-02-2016, 05:49 PM

This hit the U.S. 2-Year Bond Yield hard -- lower bond prices mean higher interest rates ...

Don't leverage at variable interest rates now

See the decline Today -- 1D chart
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siteman12

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#5

12-02-2016, 05:53 PM

You Guys Need To Get a Life.
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bronco67

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#6

12-02-2016, 06:05 PM

Ok now the call makes sense. Holy shit this is so shady.

Trump wants to expand business empire to Taiwan, creating another potential conflict of interest: Shanghaiist
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woj

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#7

12-02-2016, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam

This hit the U.S. 2-Year Bond Yield hard -- lower bond prices mean higher interest rates ...

Don't leverage at variable interest rates now

See the decline Today -- 1D chart

you are looking at a "yield" graph, not a price graph... and "yield" = interest rate, so interest rates actually fell today...

but don't let that minor detail ruin a good opportunity to hate on Trump...

Bond yields fall on U.S. jobs data, euro flat before Italy vote | Reuters

"Bond yields fell on Friday as solid U.S. jobs data reinforced the view that the Federal Reserve would raise interest rates gradually..."

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Bladewire

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#8

12-02-2016, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by siteman12

You Guys Need To Get a Life.

Are you American? This IS our life we live here.

EDIT: OH 2014 with 2 digit post count another negative posting fake troll nick from banned Relic. Lazy hater.

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Rochard

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#9

12-02-2016, 06:56 PM

There is where Trump and his utter lack of experience shows. He doesn't begin to understand the basic concept of what being the President really is.

Trump seems to think he is the President of the United States, he is the leader, and he can do whatever he wants. This is not his private business where he gets to do what he wants. He has to answer to hundreds of millions of Americans - and then also billions of other people.

What he did today was a perfect example. The President does not just pick up the phone and call the leader of another country. While the President sure can pick up the phone and call the leader of another country, doing so without consulting the state department and reviewing the hundred year history of how we handle specific foreign issues is downright careless. With a single phone call and a single press release, he pissed off China and then insulted them, damaged relations, made an ass out of himself, and accomplished nothing. He accomplished nothing at all.

He is trying to bypass the government and doesn't understand he is the government.

This is going to be comical. Every other interaction he has with a foreign power or a government agency will cause issues and drama. He won't be able to get anything done.

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#10

12-02-2016, 07:04 PM

President elect Dolt strikes again

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crockett

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#11

12-02-2016, 07:26 PM

He's a fool, it's just that simple. His entire thought process revolves around being Mr Drama. He's going to fuck up lots of shit before he gets removed from office.. Assuming the EC actually vote him in at this point.

In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.
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Phoenix

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#12

12-02-2016, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by Rochard

There is where Trump and his utter lack of experience shows. He doesn't begin to understand the basic concept of what being the President really is.

Trump seems to think he is the President of the United States, he is the leader, and he can do whatever he wants. This is not his private business where he gets to do what he wants. He has to answer to hundreds of millions of Americans - and then also billions of other people.

What he did today was a perfect example. The President does not just pick up the phone and call the leader of another country. While the President sure can pick up the phone and call the leader of another country, doing so without consulting the state department and reviewing the hundred year history of how we handle specific foreign issues is downright careless. With a single phone call and a single press release, he pissed off China and then insulted them, damaged relations, made an ass out of himself, and accomplished nothing. He accomplished nothing at all.

He is trying to bypass the government and doesn't understand he is the government.

This is going to be comical. Every other interaction he has with a foreign power or a government agency will cause issues and drama. He won't be able to get anything done.

I kind of want to support what you said. It should be noted though that Trump did not call. He received a call

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Rochard

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#13

12-02-2016, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by Phoenix

I kind of want to support what you said. It should be noted though that Trump did not call. He received a call

I disagree.

First, why would a foreign government call Trump directly without going through the State Department? Trump is no longer a private businessman but now the leader of one of the largest and most powerful countries in the world. Taiwan did not just pick up the phone and call Trump directly.

Second.... According to Politico.... Trump claims they call him:

"The President of Taiwan CALLED ME today to wish me congratulations on winning the Presidency," Trump tweeted on Friday evening. "Interesting how the U.S. sells Taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment but I should not accept a congratulatory call."

Then we have a conflicting story:

But according to a report in the Taipei Times, the call was "arranged by his Taiwan-friendly campaign staff after his aides briefed him on issues regarding Taiwan and the situation in the Taiwan Strait."

No matter who called who, Trump's people put it together, and did so without consulting anyone in the Obama administration. He is not even in office and he created an international incident.

Trump is used to working in a business environment where he is the boss and he is king and everyone does what he wants. This does not work in politics. A single sentence can undo years of peaceful coexistence between two countries that barely get along. This is because Trump (Drumpf!) has zero experience in how government works - none what so ever.

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Rochard

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#14

12-02-2016, 08:01 PM

LOL. Better yet. According to CNN, it seems Trump's transition team has people in Taiwan....

Stephen Yates, a fellow at the Heritage Foundation who is an adviser to Trump's transition, is in Taiwan and helped facilitate the call, according to a source familiar with the visit. Yates was an Asia adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney and is very supportive of Taiwan.

Donald Trump risks showdown with China after call with Taiwan - CNNPolitics.com

This will surely help the issues we have with China building it's own island and turning it into a military base.

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Barry-xlovecam

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#15

12-02-2016, 09:46 PM

Right things are just fucking peachy.

Bonds discount to yield.

Trump is just rattling China's cage (for now) playing both sides against the middle is how bankruptcy artists work. Right now US debentures are selling above par so some decline can be tolerated. When banks want to lend me money at below prime rate for short term periods -- the writing is on the wall

Smells like the run-up in 2005 - 2006. Trump can call Hades and make a deal with the Devil anytime he wants -- problem is the play is in motion before he makes the call.

Tea party standard-bearer Sarah Palin, under consideration to join Donald Trump?s cabinet, has just blasted the tax deal the president-elect negotiated with Carrier, condemning it as ?crony capitalism.?

Trump and Vice President-elect Mike Pence helped arrange $7 million in Indiana tax breaks over 10 years for Carrier in exchange for the company?s promise to keep about 800 of 1,400 jobs in the U.S. instead of moving them to Mexico. In addition, Trump threatened to impose a stiff tariff on Carrier products if they sent all of the work across the border.

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Paul Markham

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#16

12-02-2016, 10:00 PM

What can China do?

Maybe close down some of the factories flooding the US with cheap crap.

When a supplier who relies on your business, starts to tell you how you run your business, close the thing down.

This is the problem with corporations running the world.

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#17

12-03-2016, 12:35 AM

Trump is doing the right thing. The problem with China is that it wants its product to sell all over world, but at the same time do not allow access to its market.

On top of that, its aggressiveness in South China Sea is making everyone noticeable.

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Barry-xlovecam

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#18

12-03-2016, 03:32 AM

China could start calling in US government bonds and selling off USA based investments. Also, many major USA based businesses have major investments in China.

In other words, an escalating trade war that in the end game will cost jobs and create inflation. For one thing, computer devices will skyrocket in price. Walmart the nation's largest employer will see price inflation. If you think people with outdated skill-sets will fill in and make these foreign imported products -- you are absolutely wrong. A few of them will have new jobs oiling the robots that will assume the production jobs *reshored* from China.

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#19

12-03-2016, 05:12 AM

US and the rest of the western countries are China's best customers... so like Paul Markham said earlier, China isn't going to do shit, as any action that would negatively effect the US, would negatively effect them...

there is also a minor detail that china loaned us $1T+, so any negative action would make it less likely they'll get their $$ back...

just imagine you (China) have a client ("West"), he is your best client and he happens to owe you ton of $$$... are you going to fuck with him in any way? if there is any tension or disagreement, you will bitch and whine, but you won't do much more than that, as the client has you by the balls...

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#20

12-03-2016, 07:12 AM

China and the USA won't do anything but saber rattle. We are so intertwined that if one did something to hurt the other, they'd also hurt themselves

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Barry-xlovecam

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#21

12-03-2016, 08:30 AM

Well, then just stop all payments to China and see what happens

Antagonizing the people you are intending (pretending?) to negotiate with is real fucking smart.

Trump just behaves like a schoolyard bully. He attacks classes of people and executes his childish ad hominid attacks like a Internet toll. I think this is mainly a show to rally his "red hats" but behaving like this when dealing with trade and diplomacy is going to end very badly.

We could be selling China the things that we are good at creating but Chinese can make them themselves now without us. They won and we lost this round.

Trump's Carrier "victory" was old-school incentives by a state government and punitive tariff threats from a yet to be formed federal government. Good cop bad cop with private industry just like a Democrat administration would do -- so the only difference is the party name-tag [R] or [D] ? What a fuckin' bad joke on the *red hats*
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#22

12-03-2016, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam

Trump's Carrier "victory" was old-school incentives by a state government and punitive tariff threats from a yet to be formed federal government. Good cop bad cop with private industry just like a Democrat administration would do -- so the only difference is the party name-tag [R] or [D] ? What a fuckin' bad joke on the *red hats*

That wasn't a victory at all. Seems Carrier was rewarded for sending jobs down to Mexico. Trump is claiming he saved jobs, but the reality is Carrier is still sending a thousand jobs down to Mexico. And Trump just rewarded them for doing so.

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Tasty1

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#23

12-03-2016, 11:03 AM

So, when there is a surpressing regime like in Syria the USA will help those people bomb their countries and support the "good" guys. But when it involves Taiwan and China, they have to back up? Thay can not even make a phone call? And that while Taiwan is buying a lot, realy a lot, military equipment from the USA.. Is that so that the iphones and shoes can be produced cheap? Why isn't there the democratic finger pointing that we must protect democracies and support maybe Taiwan? Strange. I must learn what countries are bad and good and which surpressing regimes people must support. Is there a list?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ales_to_Taiwan

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Barry-xlovecam

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#24

12-03-2016, 11:33 AM

FYI: Taiwan and China have had a territorial dispute since the Chinese Communist Revolution. The US has an "official" One China policy that conflicts with the diplomatic and business relations with Taiwan (formerly called Formosa).

The US government has been talking out of both sides of its mouth with regards to China:Taiwan Diplomacy for decades. Playing both sides against the middle always results in crisis.

The British returned Hong Kong because their 100 year land lease has expired. Taiwan is a thorn in the Chinese paw. Twisting that thorn angers the tiger -- what could possibly go wrong?

Historical significance

In spite of the similarities between their names, modern supporters of Taiwan independence who call for the establishment of a Republic of Taiwan are wary of claiming that their own movement owes anything to the example of the 1895 Republic. The reason for this is that T'ang Ching-sung and his adherents continued to recognise Chinese suzerainty, while modern advocates of a Republic of Taiwan seek political independence from China.

Nitobe Inazō, a former Director of the Bureau of Industries in the Government of Formosa, wrote, "Mr. Tang was elected president and the republic of Formosa lasted three or four months, leaving behind nothing but some post-stamps valuable for collectors."[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Formosa
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#25

12-03-2016, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam

FYI: Taiwan and China have had a territorial dispute since the Chinese Communist Revolution. The US has an "official" One China policy that conflicts with the diplomatic and business relations with Taiwan (formerly called Formosa).

The US government has been talking out of both sides of its mouth with regards to China:Taiwan Diplomacy for decades. Playing both sides against the middle always results in crisis.

The British returned Hong Kong because their 100 year land lease has expired. Taiwan is a thorn in the Chinese paw. Twisting that thorn angers the tiger -- what could possibly go wrong?

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#26

12-03-2016, 11:44 AM

China ain't shit without the US market.
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#27

12-03-2016, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by Rochard

There is where Trump and his utter lack of experience shows. He doesn't begin to understand the basic concept of what being the President really is.
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#28

12-03-2016, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by bronco67

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/02/us...hina.html?_r=0

This is what you wanted...right?

Yes. The Chinese are insanely insecure about the legitimacy of their Government and this is one of the biggest buttons that can be pushed. This is exactly what we want, something that undoes the status quo and reflects the realpolitik clusterfuck that the last 20 years have brought us.
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