Maybe this whole trump thing isn't over..

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  • 2MuchMark
    Mark of 2Much.net
    • Aug 2004
    • 50969
    #1

    Maybe this whole trump thing isn't over..

    The electoral college elects a president on December 19th. They do not necessary have to vote for Trump.

    The electors could change their mind and elect someone else. It is not unheard of that individual "faithless electors" vote different than mandated by the result in their state for any reason.It's legal in 20-something states...

    It has never happened, but in the 1800's sometime, what are called "faithless electors" in Virginia were almost pulled it off.

    I found this: https://www.archives.gov/federal-reg...rovisions.html

    which says

    Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.
    And this page

    https://www.archives.gov/federal-reg...key-dates.html

    says that the states have until Dec 13th to resolve any disputes on who to appoint as electors. Then, the final electors vote on Dec 19th.

    Wouldn't it be fucking, fucking cool, if Trump LOST on Dec 19th?

    It's an extreme longshot, but us Libbies have to cling to hope.

    Oh happy days..
    Tags: None
    • plaster
      So Fucking Banned
      • Apr 2015
      • 2295
      #2
      The electorates are Republican appointed Trump supporters that cast their electorate vote, because Trump won the state. If Clinton won the state, it would be Democratic appointed electors.

      THERE

      IS

      NOT

      A

      CHANCE

      TRUMP

      ELECTORS

      WILL

      CAST

      FOR

      HITLARY!

      ... sorry OP

        Comment

        • Dvae
          Confirmed User
          • Feb 2005
          • 5326
          #3
          Originally posted by MarkPrince
          The electoral college elects a president on December 19th. They do not necessary have to vote for Trump.

          The electors could change their mind and elect someone else. It is not unheard of that individual "faithless electors" vote different than mandated by the result in their state for any reason.It's legal in 20-something states...

          It has never happened, but in the 1800's sometime, what are called "faithless electors" in Virginia were almost pulled it off.

          I found this: https://www.archives.gov/federal-reg...rovisions.html

          which says


          And this page

          https://www.archives.gov/federal-reg...key-dates.html

          says that the states have until Dec 13th to resolve any disputes on who to appoint as electors. Then, the final electors vote on Dec 19th.

          Wouldn't it be fucking, fucking cool, if Trump LOST on Dec 19th?

          It's an extreme longshot, but us Libbies have to cling to hope.

          Oh happy days..
          How about this Mark, learn to lose gracefully.
          Libs won the previous 2 elections. Who says you have to win every time?

          There was at least a much dislike for Obama as there is for Trump and we didn't feel the need to riot and act like 6yr olds that don't get their way.
          .
          .

          Arguing with a troll is a lot like wrestling in the mud with a pig, after a couple of hours you realize the pig likes it.

            Comment

            • CaptainHowdy
              Too lazy to set a custom title
              • Dec 2004
              • 94727
              #4
              Why do you keep up with this??

                Comment

                • klinton
                  So Fucking Banned
                  • Apr 2003
                  • 8766
                  #5

                    Comment

                    • TCLGirls
                      Confirmed User
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 3068
                      #6
                      Originally posted by plaster
                      The electorates are Republican appointed Trump supporters that cast their electorate vote, because Trump won the state. If Clinton won the state, it would be Democratic appointed electors.

                      THERE

                      IS

                      NOT

                      A

                      CHANCE

                      TRUMP

                      ELECTORS

                      WILL

                      CAST

                      FOR

                      HITLARY!

                      ... sorry OP

                      The Republican appointed electors were appointed prior to the Republican National Convention...so it was still unknown to them who the GOP nominee would be. And there's already some Republican electors who said they would not vote Trump.

                        Comment

                        • 2MuchMark
                          Mark of 2Much.net
                          • Aug 2004
                          • 50969
                          #7
                          Originally posted by plaster
                          The electorates are Republican appointed Trump supporters that cast their electorate vote, because Trump won the state. If Clinton won the state, it would be Democratic appointed electors.

                          THERE

                          IS

                          NOT

                          A

                          CHANCE

                          TRUMP

                          ELECTORS

                          WILL

                          CAST

                          FOR

                          HITLARY!

                          ... sorry OP

                          LOL! You missed something my friend.... They were appointed beforehand. And no of course they would not vote for Hillary. What they could do though, is vote for another republican.


                          Originally posted by Dvae
                          How about this Mark, learn to lose gracefully.
                          Libs won the previous 2 elections. Who says you have to win every time?

                          There was at least a much dislike for Obama as there is for Trump and we didn't feel the need to riot and act like 6yr olds that don't get their way.
                          I've already accepted the loss (and paid out on my losing debts, argh!). It is already clear that Donald Trump will be the most disliked a-hole ever to be President. And like it or not, there is very slight, but very legal, and very democratic way he might not make it through the doors.

                          Originally posted by CaptainHowdy
                          Why do you keep up with this??
                          I don't know. Clearly I need more xanax.

                          Originally posted by klinton
                          Yeah....


                          Originally posted by TCLGirls

                          The Republican appointed electors were appointed prior to the Republican National Convention...so it was still unknown to them who the GOP nominee would be. And there's already some Republican electors who said they would not vote Trump.
                          That's what I said goddamiit!

                            Comment

                            • 2MuchMark
                              Mark of 2Much.net
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 50969
                              #8
                              Originally posted by plaster
                              The electorates are Republican appointed Trump supporters that cast their electorate vote, because Trump won the state. If Clinton won the state, it would be Democratic appointed electors.

                              THERE

                              IS

                              NOT

                              A

                              CHANCE

                              TRUMP

                              ELECTORS

                              WILL

                              CAST

                              FOR

                              HITLARY!

                              ... sorry OP

                              Faithless Electors Switching to Hillary: 5 Fast Facts | Heavy.com

                              Over 4 Million people have already signed this petition https://www.change.org/p/electoral-c...etition-no_msg

                              So.... maybe Plaster, you will have to pay me my $100.00 after all.

                                Comment

                                • plaster
                                  So Fucking Banned
                                  • Apr 2015
                                  • 2295
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by TCLGirls

                                  The Republican appointed electors were appointed prior to the Republican National Convention...so it was still unknown to them who the GOP nominee would be. And there's already some Republican electors who said they would not vote Trump.
                                  None in the states that he won...

                                  Only in California maybe... but CA really doesn't count as a state anyways

                                    Comment

                                    • 2MuchMark
                                      Mark of 2Much.net
                                      • Aug 2004
                                      • 50969
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by plaster
                                      but CA really doesn't count as a state anyways
                                      too many damn libbies?

                                        Comment

                                        • plaster
                                          So Fucking Banned
                                          • Apr 2015
                                          • 2295
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by MarkPrince
                                          too many damn libbies?
                                          While rioting the CA libs said they wanted to be their own country... I say let them at it

                                            Comment

                                            • astronaut x
                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                              • May 2011
                                              • 4844
                                              #12
                                              While it's true, the electors could vote for another Repugnant, it's not going to happen.

                                              Would we really even want that? I think we are all about to find out that Trump tricked his base. Don't get me wrong, he ran the most vial and sleazy campaign since Hitler. and he can't seem to control his mouth (the real danger IMHO)...I think he is going to be safer than Mike Pence. Which is why, I think the Repugs will end up getting rid of him in the future. Either by impeachment (led by GOP) or by other means (speculate all you want.)
                                              Hello

                                                Comment

                                                • TCLGirls
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Feb 2010
                                                  • 3068
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by plaster
                                                  None in the states that he won...

                                                  Only in California maybe... but CA really doesn't count as a state anyways
                                                  Yes in the states Trump won...Alaska for example.

                                                  And might as well consider Kentucky in play...considering Trump made fun on Rand Paul who is very popular in Kentucky. Add South Carolina (Lindsy Graham), Ohio (Kaish) and Arizona (McCain) as well. All those pols have sway in those states.

                                                  BTW, there doesn't need to be a whole bunch of faithless electors to turn over the election. There just needs to be between 20 to 30 of them to drop Trump below 270 votes.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Relic
                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                      • Aug 2002
                                                      • 10300
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by CaptainHowdy
                                                      Why do you keep up with this??
                                                      He's a meddler.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Joshua G
                                                          dumb libs love censorship
                                                          • Jul 2008
                                                          • 8198
                                                          #15

                                                            Comment

                                                            • just a punk
                                                              So fuckin' bored
                                                              • Jun 2003
                                                              • 32393
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by MarkPrince
                                                              The electoral college elects a president on December 19th. They do not necessary have to vote for Trump.
                                                              Yes, they don't. The USA have no direct voting system - they are still using the old one which was made for peasants, so if the college won't vote for Trump, it will be an excellent proof that there is no democracy in America... So they WILL vote for Trump, because nobody wants to admit the US democracy is fucked up
                                                              Obey the Cowgod

                                                                Comment

                                                                • baddog
                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                  • Apr 2001
                                                                  • 107089
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Canadians can be so delusional ... if Trump won by a couple EC votes, you might have something but it was a landslide which means not a fucking chance.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • mineistaken
                                                                      See signature :)
                                                                      • Apr 2007
                                                                      • 29656
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by MarkPrince
                                                                      I don't know. Clearly I need more xanax.
                                                                      At least you are one of the anti Trumpsters that can admit that.

                                                                      Kittens...

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • C H R I S
                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                          • Nov 2005
                                                                          • 10842
                                                                          #19
                                                                          If wishes we're fishes...... Get back to your Poutine
                                                                          C H R I S
                                                                          Retired Porn Veteran

                                                                          BH4L

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Dvae
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Feb 2005
                                                                              • 5326
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by CyberSEO
                                                                              Yes, they don't. The USA have no direct voting system - they are still using the old one which was made for peasants, so if the college won't vote for Trump, it will be an excellent proof that there is no democracy in America... So they WILL vote for Trump, because nobody wants to admit the US democracy is fucked up
                                                                              USA is not a democracy!
                                                                              .
                                                                              .

                                                                              Arguing with a troll is a lot like wrestling in the mud with a pig, after a couple of hours you realize the pig likes it.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • EonBlue
                                                                                  Apocalypse
                                                                                  • May 2007
                                                                                  • 3043
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                  Canadians can be so delusional ... if Trump won by a couple EC votes, you might have something but it was a landslide which means not a fucking chance.
                                                                                  We're not all like him, trust me.




                                                                                  .

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Relic
                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                      • Aug 2002
                                                                                      • 10300
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by C H R I S
                                                                                      Get back to your Poutine
                                                                                      Too much sodium

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Matt-ADX
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Sep 2015
                                                                                          • 1497
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Why would Republicans give up the white house? Trump helped them in the senate as well, they actually owe Trump quite a bit, they going to give up complete power over nonsense?

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • ilnjscb
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Jun 2009
                                                                                              • 8972
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              It was not even vaguely a landslide. He won because of 107,000 votes, .1% of the total, in three states. He will lose the popular vote.

                                                                                              HOWEVER, he won fair and square. To encourage electors, who are uniformly pillars of their parties, to undertake what basically amounts to a coup, is so ridiculous as to be frankly delusional.

                                                                                              Concentrate on 2020 and 2018 midterms, is my humble advice.

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • xXXtesy10
                                                                                                  Fakecoin Investor
                                                                                                  • Jul 2012
                                                                                                  • 7127
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  WARNING: Stay Away From Marlboroack aka aka Brandon Ackerman
                                                                                                  http://gfy.com/21169705-post8.html
                                                                                                  Donny Long is Felon, Stalker, Scammer & Coward
                                                                                                  http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/...lon-int-761244

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • plaster
                                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                      • Apr 2015
                                                                                                      • 2295
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by ilnjscb
                                                                                                      It was not even vaguely a landslide. He won because of 107,000 votes, .1% of the total, in three states. He will lose the popular vote.

                                                                                                      HOWEVER, he won fair and square. To encourage electors, who are uniformly pillars of their parties, to undertake what basically amounts to a coup, is so ridiculous as to be frankly delusional.

                                                                                                      Concentrate on 2020 and 2018 midterms, is my humble advice.
                                                                                                      It was a landslide electoral win and an unprecedented swing in votes in the battleground states. Take the number Romney lost by in all the swing states and add that to the states trump won. That's the shift... and it's yuge and no amount of number manipulation can deny the landslide victory that just ensued.

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • plaster
                                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                          • Apr 2015
                                                                                                          • 2295
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by plaster
                                                                                                          It was a landslide electoral win and an unprecedented swing in votes in the battleground states. Take the number Romney lost by in all the swing states and add that to the states trump won. That's the shift... and it's yuge and no amount of number manipulation can deny the landslide victory that just ensued.
                                                                                                          Take these Obama states which Trump won:

                                                                                                          Florida, Iowa, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin

                                                                                                          Add the Romney number of loss to the trump number of win to see the significance of what happened. I'm not going to do it... but someone can if they want.

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • ErectMedia
                                                                                                              Confirmed Chicago Pimp
                                                                                                              • Aug 2004
                                                                                                              • 7100
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Trump wins and ya get protests all day from big city DemoCucks who don't work anyway so they got all day to fuck off until their government check comes.

                                                                                                              Reverse that decision and it would be ten fold da drama as Trump supporters know how to fight and handle a gun as all that Red across the map in farmland would be gun owners. City DemoCuck ain't got shit on da country Trump nation.

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • 2MuchMark
                                                                                                                  Mark of 2Much.net
                                                                                                                  • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                  • 50969
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by mineistaken
                                                                                                                  At least you are one of the anti Trumpsters that can admit that.

                                                                                                                  Kittens...
                                                                                                                  Kittens!!!!!!

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • ilnjscb
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Jun 2009
                                                                                                                      • 8972
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by plaster
                                                                                                                      It was a landslide electoral win and an unprecedented swing in votes in the battleground states. Take the number Romney lost by in all the swing states and add that to the states trump won. That's the shift... and it's yuge and no amount of number manipulation can deny the landslide victory that just ensued.
                                                                                                                      The swing in votes was not a landslide. He lost the popular vote. He won some states by less than .5%. That's ok, he won, but it isn't a landslide by any means. I'm sure the democrats hope he thinks like you, because if he does, the midterms will be interesting. If he takes a lesson from Clinton, Bush, and Obama and unlike them is somewhat moderate he could actually gain in the midterms. Let's see what he does.

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • Vendot
                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                          • May 2002
                                                                                                                          • 3376
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by MarkPrince
                                                                                                                          Wouldn't it be fucking, fucking cool, if Trump LOST on Dec 19th?
                                                                                                                          If I walk down the street at night and see a person glowing in the dark, my initial response might be something like: "that's cool"
                                                                                                                          "In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act." - George Orwell

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • BlackCrayon
                                                                                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                              • Jun 2003
                                                                                                                              • 19634
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              11000 people voted for a dead gorilla. serious politics.
                                                                                                                              you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                • Rochard
                                                                                                                                  Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                                                                  • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                                  • 75733
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  There is no chance of this happening really.

                                                                                                                                  However, Trump goes on trial on the 28th for fraud and racketeering for Trump University, in the first of multiple trials for Trump University. Then there is the investigation into Trump Foundation, which will become a huge headache for him as well - The list of issues he is going to have will be long.

                                                                                                                                  It is entirely possible that we might have a President Elect convicted of fraud and racketeering before he takes office, or directly after - which would could be an impeachable offense. And please do not argue he cannot be impeached for this, he surely can - Clinton was impeached for lying under oath which is a lesser offense than defrauding thousands of people out of millions of dollars.

                                                                                                                                  This will be fun to watch.
                                                                                                                                  Herschel Savage
                                                                                                                                  Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • Barry-xlovecam
                                                                                                                                      It's 42
                                                                                                                                      • Jun 2010
                                                                                                                                      • 18083
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                                                                      There is no chance of this happening really.

                                                                                                                                      However, Trump goes on trial on the 28th for fraud and racketeering for Trump University, ... millions of dollars.

                                                                                                                                      This will be fun to watch.

                                                                                                                                      I read that Trump's lawyers have motioned for continuance (extension delay) and are busy trying to settle this out of court now with the estimates of settlement amounts in excess of $100 Million ( all 3 actions ) ... Expensive "get out of jail card."

                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • Mickey_
                                                                                                                                          • Nov 2005
                                                                                                                                          • 4238
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                                                                          There is no chance of this happening really.

                                                                                                                                          However, Trump goes on trial on the 28th for fraud and racketeering for Trump University, in the first of multiple trials for Trump University. Then there is the investigation into Trump Foundation, which will become a huge headache for him as well - The list of issues he is going to have will be long.

                                                                                                                                          It is entirely possible that we might have a President Elect convicted of fraud and racketeering before he takes office, or directly after - which would could be an impeachable offense. And please do not argue he cannot be impeached for this, he surely can - Clinton was impeached for lying under oath which is a lesser offense than defrauding thousands of people out of millions of dollars.

                                                                                                                                          This will be fun to watch.
                                                                                                                                          Pretty sure this will be sweeped under the rug. Money and power will take care of that. Slap on the wrist, fines, etc.


                                                                                                                                          LifeSelector Affiliates - Make money today promoting the online porn of tomorrow.

                                                                                                                                          mb [at] lifeselector.com

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • Rochard
                                                                                                                                              Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                                                                              • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                                              • 75733
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam
                                                                                                                                              I read that Trump's lawyers have motioned for continuance (extension delay) and are busy trying to settle this out of court now with the estimates of settlement amounts in excess of $100 Million ( all 3 actions ) ... Expensive "get out of jail card."
                                                                                                                                              They haven fighting to push this back claiming "Trump is busy". That is not appropriate. We do not push back trial dates because "someone is busy". They can argue Trump will be busy for the next four to eight years, but this is irrelevant - Legal action still moves forward even when someone is President of a country.

                                                                                                                                              It's obvious they are trying to settle, and it would be expensive. But you can guess a fair portion of the people involved in the lawsuit are not fans of Trump, did not vote for him, and would love to see a long and drawn out trail if only to make Trump look bad.

                                                                                                                                              If this trial does not go to court, there is another one. And an investigation into the Trump Foundation, which seems to have operated illegally from the day it was created.

                                                                                                                                              Trump is nothing but a liability. Currently he has two hundred legal cases pending against him, and you know the press is sniffing around looking into all of his business dealings hoping to find something dirty or bad. The Trump administration will be one scandal after another.
                                                                                                                                              Herschel Savage
                                                                                                                                              Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                • 2MuchMark
                                                                                                                                                  Mark of 2Much.net
                                                                                                                                                  • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                                                  • 50969
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                                                                                  This will be fun to watch.
                                                                                                                                                  Definitely.

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • TheDynasty
                                                                                                                                                      See Signature
                                                                                                                                                      • Apr 2016
                                                                                                                                                      • 5882
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      it's not over yet!
                                                                                                                                                      Try out WP-SCRIPT The Best Tube Script

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • bronco67
                                                                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                          • Dec 2006
                                                                                                                                                          • 29032
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by MarkPrince

                                                                                                                                                          Wouldn't it be fucking, fucking cool, if Trump LOST on Dec 19th?

                                                                                                                                                          It's an extreme longshot, but us Libbies have to cling to hope.

                                                                                                                                                          Oh happy days..
                                                                                                                                                          If his transition keeps looking the trainwreck it started as, I wouldn't rule it out. Trump and his team are way out of their depth and have no idea what they don't know about what it takes to run a presidential administration.

                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                            • Bladewire
                                                                                                                                                              StraightBro
                                                                                                                                                              • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                                                              • 56228
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              Never heard of a president elect wanting all his kids and son in law to have top security clearance while also running his billion dollar company.

                                                                                                                                                              The businessman in Trump is who runs his life. I don't think Trump has the strength to resist greatly benefiting himself from the presidency, or the brains to keep from getting caught.


                                                                                                                                                              Skype: CallTomNow

                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                • RyuLion
                                                                                                                                                                  ClubDomCash.com
                                                                                                                                                                  • Mar 2003
                                                                                                                                                                  • 32369
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by klinton
                                                                                                                                                                  Wishful thinking..

                                                                                                                                                                  Adult Biz Consultant A tech head since 1995
                                                                                                                                                                  Affiliate Support: Chaturbate | CCBill Live

                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                    • 2MuchMark
                                                                                                                                                                      Mark of 2Much.net
                                                                                                                                                                      • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                                                                      • 50969
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Bladewire
                                                                                                                                                                      Never heard of a president elect wanting all his kids and son in law to have top security clearance while also running his billion dollar company.

                                                                                                                                                                      The businessman in Trump is who runs his life. I don't think Trump has the strength to resist greatly benefiting himself from the presidency, or the brains to keep from getting caught.
                                                                                                                                                                      I doubt he will make it through the first year without fucking it all up.

                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                        • Look Chang
                                                                                                                                                                          Voyeur
                                                                                                                                                                          • Sep 2010
                                                                                                                                                                          • 18255
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          What a decrepitude for a country which has the ambition to rule the world

                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

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