Ignorance is Strength, War is Peace - GoFuckYourself.com

LuSiD · 03-17-2003, 11:14 PM

Throughout recorded time, and probably since the end of the Neolithic Age, there have been three kinds of people in the world, the High, the Middle, and the Low. They have been subdivided in many ways, they have borne countless different names, and their relative numbers, as well as their attitude towards one another, have varied from age to age: but the essential structure of society has never altered. Even after enormous upheavals and seemingly irrevocable changes, the same pattern has always reasserted itself, just as a gyroscope will always return to equilibnum, however far it is pushed one way or the other. The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim -- for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives -- is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal. Thus throughout history a struggle which is the same in its main outlines recurs over and over again. For long periods the High seem to be securely in power, but sooner or later there always comes a moment when they lose either their belief in themselves or their capacity to govern efficiently, or both. They are then overthrown by the Middle, who enlist the Low on their side by pretending to them that they are fighting for liberty and justice. As soon as they have reached their objective, the Middle thrust the Low back into their old position of servitude, and themselves become the High. Presently a new Middle group splits off from one of the other groups, or from both of them, and the struggle begins over again. Of the three groups, only the Low are never even temporarily successful in achieving their aims. It would be an exaggeration to say that throughout history there has been no progress of a material kind. Even today, in a period of decline, the average human being is physically better off than he was a few centuries ago. But no advance in wealth, no softening of manners, no reform or revolution has ever brought human equality a millimetre nearer. From the point of view of the Low, no historic change has ever meant much more than a change in the name of their masters.

NetRodent · 03-17-2003, 11:21 PM

http://www.orwelltoday.com/classes.shtml

I disagree with the assertion that people today are no more equal than their predicessors. In the west, class is no longer a function of blood. Class depends on two things, education and wealth. Both of which are readily available to those who have the drive to achieve them.

LuSiD · 03-17-2003, 11:35 PM

Yet still we have morons running around defending groups of people just because they are told to. No mental capacity whatsoever to decide for themselves. And while this cycle may not happen today literally the way Orwell explained in his book (which was written in the late late 1940s, btw), we must also understand that he was satirizing his views of the situation back then and how he feared they might escalate into something horrific. They were metaphors for what was to come, and IMHO, he hit the nail on the head.

fnet · 04-05-2003, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LuSiD
Yet still we have morons running around defending groups of people just because they are told to. No mental capacity whatsoever to decide for themselves. And while this cycle may not happen today literally the way Orwell explained in his book (which was written in the late late 1940s, btw), we must also understand that he was satirizing his views of the situation back then and how he feared they might escalate into something horrific. They were metaphors for what was to come, and IMHO, he hit the nail on the head.

It certainly seems to be coming along in that direction. And I think it can be diverted by further distributing the powers of information and trade- creating better localized resource networks that enhance a non-territorial sense of wealth.

I'd just like to know if giving all individuals deep access to knowledge resources will make the hypothetical scenario better or worse. It won't make them non followers. I don't know what does.

quiet · 04-05-2003, 05:35 PM

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

i've read the book many times, recently re-read it last month...

mule · 04-05-2003, 05:36 PM

Sheep will allways be sheep

quiet · 04-05-2003, 05:36 PM

"victory" = "freedom"

Dildozer · 04-05-2003, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet
"victory" = "freedom"

let's feast on some Victory Fries then

quiet · 04-05-2003, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dildozer

let's feast on some Victory Fries then

exactly

fnet · 04-05-2003, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dildozer

let's feast on some Victory Fries then

I'll drink to that. Ooh. Time to get another beer.

03-17-2003, 11:14 PM	#1
LuSiD Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: South Florida Posts: 434	Ignorance is Strength, War is Peace Throughout recorded time, and probably since the end of the Neolithic Age, there have been three kinds of people in the world, the High, the Middle, and the Low. They have been subdivided in many ways, they have borne countless different names, and their relative numbers, as well as their attitude towards one another, have varied from age to age: but the essential structure of society has never altered. Even after enormous upheavals and seemingly irrevocable changes, the same pattern has always reasserted itself, just as a gyroscope will always return to equilibnum, however far it is pushed one way or the other. The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim -- for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives -- is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal. Thus throughout history a struggle which is the same in its main outlines recurs over and over again. For long periods the High seem to be securely in power, but sooner or later there always comes a moment when they lose either their belief in themselves or their capacity to govern efficiently, or both. They are then overthrown by the Middle, who enlist the Low on their side by pretending to them that they are fighting for liberty and justice. As soon as they have reached their objective, the Middle thrust the Low back into their old position of servitude, and themselves become the High. Presently a new Middle group splits off from one of the other groups, or from both of them, and the struggle begins over again. Of the three groups, only the Low are never even temporarily successful in achieving their aims. It would be an exaggeration to say that throughout history there has been no progress of a material kind. Even today, in a period of decline, the average human being is physically better off than he was a few centuries ago. But no advance in wealth, no softening of manners, no reform or revolution has ever brought human equality a millimetre nearer. From the point of view of the Low, no historic change has ever meant much more than a change in the name of their masters. __________________ I bought a dog the other day... I named him Stay. It's fun to call him... "Come here, Stay! Come here, Stay!" He went insane. Now he just ignores me and keeps typing.

03-17-2003, 11:21 PM	#2
NetRodent Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In the walls of your house. Posts: 3,985	http://www.orwelltoday.com/classes.shtml I disagree with the assertion that people today are no more equal than their predicessors. In the west, class is no longer a function of blood. Class depends on two things, education and wealth. Both of which are readily available to those who have the drive to achieve them. __________________ "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." --H.L. Mencken

03-17-2003, 11:35 PM	#3
LuSiD Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: South Florida Posts: 434	Yet still we have morons running around defending groups of people just because they are told to. No mental capacity whatsoever to decide for themselves. And while this cycle may not happen today literally the way Orwell explained in his book (which was written in the late late 1940s, btw), we must also understand that he was satirizing his views of the situation back then and how he feared they might escalate into something horrific. They were metaphors for what was to come, and IMHO, he hit the nail on the head. __________________ I bought a dog the other day... I named him Stay. It's fun to call him... "Come here, Stay! Come here, Stay!" He went insane. Now he just ignores me and keeps typing.

04-05-2003, 05:36 PM	#6
mule Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: hamsterdam Posts: 6,085	Sheep will allways be sheep __________________ Converting like a mofo

04-05-2003, 05:35 PM	#5
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH i've read the book many times, recently re-read it last month...