Average Wages Around Europe

Not you, this list "says" that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...PP)_per_capita

But you would not want to live in those countries (even as a regular citizen and not as a poor immigrant), right? So I'm.

All those lists have zero informational content. Unfortunately I haven't seen something that clearly shows the relationship of average wages and the things the one can afford for that money. For example, some Joe earns $10,000 a month, but he has to pay about 90% of that money + various insurances etc. Can we say he has a better life than someone who earns $300 (officially) and pays 13% tax + $800 (unofficially - "tax free")? Especially if the average price of services for the first guy is about 10 times higher than for the second one?

For example, the average salaries in Sweden are rather high for Europe, but if you earn more than $5,200 a month, you will have to pay $51% tax. Also if you compare the average prices in Sweden vs say Greece, you will see a huge difference in several times. So it's very hard to say where an average citizen lives better.

Just another example. In my country an MRI of brain will cost you about $25, a caries treatment is about $30. I'm talking about good private clinics, not some free municipal ones. Now how much you will pay for that in the USA? 10x time more? No, in the States you will pay 100x times more for the same services. So to be able to afford the same services as here, you must earn 100x times more there.

I really would like to find some index which reflects the real dependence between the earnings and the cost of life.

obviously Russia is the best place to live, even though just about any statistic pegs it as one of the worst in Europe...

caries treatment for $30... who gives a shit dude? it's $80 here, that's about 3 hours of work at an average salary here...

As you say

BTW, those were Moscow prices. The average dental prices across the country are much cheaper: about 1000 rubles for depth caries treatment which is equal to $15 according to the current exchange rate, and we don't pay for Obamacare here ;)

Income Per Capita Definition | Investopedia

I don't think average salaries when comparing standards of living.

There are also other considerations like affordability of residential property of cost or rent for a tenant. Affordability of durable goods. Cost and availability of healthcare. The list goes on and on -- what makes for a reasonable life for the average or median income level.

No one is considering VAT, GST or state sales taxes -- they really comes into play on larger durable goods purchases. How many months does it take to buy a new automobile or how many weeks/or days work to buy a mobile smartphone -- things like that matter.

How many people are in the top 20% income percentiles? Distribution of wealth and opportunity matters.

This is not to be found on a simple chart

However, by the OP chart of European incomes that is not adjusted to living standards I can plainly see why the intra-EU migration patterns are what they are. The cost of living in Luxembourg is very high where in Germany, France or the UK the southern European's lifestyle might be better (that is assuming he is working and earning a wage).

Look at the growth rate in the US states by rank 2009/2015 -- does increased GDP translate into higher wages and better living standards? Data is what you make of it

Maybe that is more meaningful?

disposable income (the income you actually get to spend on stuff you want):



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Depends on which exactly stuff you have to pay every month for and how much. E.g. what's your tax rate? Do you have to waste your money on Obamacare monthly? How much do you pay for house/apartments renting (if you don't have your own real estate)? How much do you pay for electricity, heating (if you live in the cold area), water, natural gas supply, garbage collection and other services (e.g. lift maintenance and cleaning in apartment buildings)? How much for Internet, cable TV, phone etc? How much do you pay for education of your kids? How much do you pay for medical service if it's under the Obamacare's deductible? How much do you pay for a taxi, for a subway/bus ticket, for a haircut or for a house cleaning? How much are average traffic fines in your area? How much are gas prices? All these things matter and they determine the real wage/cost of living index.

P.S. If you want, we may compare all these numbers for our regions, so we can do some calculations

scandinavia is leading they have always been strong countries

wrong again ...

You want to look at discretionary income.
Disposable Income Definition | Investopedia

Disposable income is income after mandatory taxes.

That same $44K disposable income after deductions for other loan obligations, cars, boat, student loans, etc. might qualify you for a $100K to $60K mortgage loan half the average price of a house maybe?
from a mortgage calculator list:
You said the buy the ''stuff you want'' like a house or condo(apartment)? Maybe, if you live in a large city you do not need a private auto and you can use a taxi or the subway. How many people own a home free and clear? Their discretionary income is higher. If a village African owns his hut then he doesn't pay rent -- it is all relative. However, if you live in a hut or tent and have to go to the well to get water -- that is 200 years behind the times -- so I imagine that is not a good living standard.

Who can afford to own a home in the US?
American FactFinder - Results
That table is national average and not by state. The EU would be the same difference by nation (or state). You could break that data out to compare the states with higher GDP growth that I mentioned.

But that still doesn't tell you where it is better to live. Weather (climate), lifestyle and entertainment opportunities ... There are so many variables.

Yes, I live in the largest megalopolis in Europe, which is much bigger than NYC. Course we have a personal car, but it's almost useless in the traffic jams during the rush hours. So subway is still the fastest transport here.

A lot in my country. That's because during the Soviet times all apartments were owned by the government and were provided to the citizens for unlimited time. When Soviet Union has collapsed, all those apartments were privatized by the people who lived there for symbolic price (for free).

Plus to that lots of the city families here have a dacha (please read the Wikipedia article to understand the meaning of this word) - a second home in the exurbs of the city. They are in personal own so no rent is being paid.

Sure the US climate is much better than ours, because we have really cold winters here. But there is a good thing about it, we have no hurricanes and tornadoes ;)

can you really be this stupid?

Cost of Living Comparison Between Prague, Czech Republic And Moscow, Russia

That's comparing Prague and Moscow and we're on the lower end in terms of quality of life in Europe :D

So what should it show to me? The consumer and groceries prices are lower in Moscow. Yes, our renting prices and restaurant ones are higher than in Prague. Those things are always more expensive in megalopolises like Moscow (2561,5 km2), London (1,572 km2) or Tokyo (2,187 km2) in comparison to small cities like Prague (496 km2).

Average salary in Prague is 25,000 CZK or $1039.91 USD a month
Average salary in Moscow is 66,562 RUB or $1036.79 USD a month

Before the financial crisis an average salary here was 2x times more. Anyways, as you can see, the average official* salaries in Prague and in Moscow is almost the same according to the current CZK and RUB exchange rates. Now tell me what's your tax? All Russians pay a fixed tax of 13% of their salary. Personally I pay only 6%, because I'm a self-employed person. Now how much do you pay?

* When I say "official" I mean so-called "white" salary which is reflected in financial documents and taxed. However the people here are used to receive "black salary" (aka "salary in envelope"). It's not taxed and usually it's much more than your official salary. When your employer doesn't want to pay taxes it hires you for some minimal allowed salary (in Moscow it's only 16,500 RUB or $256 USD a month) which you both will pay taxes from, but the main part of the salary (say another 60,000 rubles) will be paid to you in cash and it won't be reflected in the financial documents. That's why the actual salaries have nothing to do with the official ones here. And that's why some clerk with an official salary of $300 UDS a month can afford to own apartments in Moscow (one bedroom ugly Khrushchyovkas start at $100,000 USD here), a good car and travel the world two times a year.

Hope you have learned something new about salaries in Russia ;)