ISIS is the baby of George W. Bush

[J. Falcon]

"The organization [ISIL] is the baby of George W. Bush. And the violence that we face now is the fallout or boomerang effect of our own wars."

Jürgen Todenhöfer

[J. Falcon]

The truth hurts, I know. Believe me I don't want to believe it either. I hate these backwards people and their fucked up religion, but anyone wanting to ignore this fact is delusional. You reep what you sow. If you're looking for someone to blame, a mirror can't be too far away.

[just a punk]

ISIS is the baby of George W. Bush

Is that a surprise for you?

[J. Falcon]

And the nephew of Tony Blair, I should have added.

[Axeman]

ISIS is the baby of Bush and Obama. They both made choices that led to what we all face.

[J. Falcon]

ISIS is the baby of Bush and Obama. They both made choices that led to what we all face.

Obama may not have helped at all, and he may even had worsened it, but we all know why this shit started. Iraq > WMD > Hussein > Bullshit war

[xXXtesy10]

[Rochard]

ISIS would have come into creation no matter what. ISIS is a group of people with a bad idea. Bush didn't create them, and Obama didn't encourage them.

And there is really nothing you can do to get rid of them all either. Unless you kill everyone who believes in the same thing - which is impossible because you don't know what people believe in - there is no way to defeat them. You cannot really defeat an idea. You can only make "them" uncomfortable to the point where all of them will want to stop and change their ways.

[Smack dat]

ISIS would have come into creation no matter what. ISIS is a group of people with a bad idea. Bush didn't create them, and Obama didn't encourage them.

And there is really nothing you can do to get rid of them all either. Unless you kill everyone who believes in the same thing - which is impossible because you don't know what people believe in - there is no way to defeat them. You cannot really defeat an idea. You can only make "them" uncomfortable to the point where all of them will want to stop and change their ways.

I can't belive that you believe this
Of course ISIL or ISIS are a product of western influence, namely the Iraq war.

If the USA and UK didn't bomb the fuck out of the Middle East the world might have been a different place now..

Or maybe not?

[Sarn]

weapons money foods - them gives not allah

but...

"As a universal religion, Islam envisages a global political order in which all humankind will live under Muslim rule as either believers or subject communities. In order to achieve this goal it is incumbent on all free, male, adult Muslims to carry out an uncompromising struggle "in the path of Allah", or jihad. This in turn makes those parts of the world that have not yet been conquered by the House of Islam an abode of permanent conflict (Dar al-Harb, the "house of war") which will only end with Islam's eventual triumph."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_caliphate

The Ottoman Caliphate, under the Ottoman dynasty of the Ottoman Empire, was the last Sunni Islamic caliphate of the late medieval and the early modern era.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Caliphate

[Barry-xlovecam]

...

The Ottoman Caliphate, under the Ottoman dynasty of the Ottoman Empire, was the last Sunni Islamic caliphate of the late medieval and the early modern era.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Caliphate

This is the root cause -- the WW1 victors (France and Great Britain) should have let the Ottomans continue ruling their Caliphate. Smack those Haji's and keep them in line The onerous burdens they placed on Germany gave rise to the Nazi Third Reich too. Really WW1 may go down in history as one of the greatest cluster fucks of civilized mankind.

[Sarn]

ISIS would have come into creation no matter what. ISIS is a group of people with a bad idea. Bush didn't create them, and Obama didn't encourage them.

not exactly like you say

[Jigster715]

weapons money foods - them gives not allah

but...

"As a universal religion, Islam envisages a global political order in which all humankind will live under Muslim rule as either believers or subject communities. In order to achieve this goal it is incumbent on all free, male, adult Muslims to carry out an uncompromising struggle "in the path of Allah", or jihad. This in turn makes those parts of the world that have not yet been conquered by the House of Islam an abode of permanent conflict (Dar al-Harb, the "house of war") which will only end with Islam's eventual triumph."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_caliphate

The Ottoman Caliphate, under the Ottoman dynasty of the Ottoman Empire, was the last Sunni Islamic caliphate of the late medieval and the early modern era.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Caliphate

- Wikipedia - edited by the Hasbara project.

[Jigster715]

Jürgen Todenhöfer

CIA had the opportunity, so they claim, to push the button on IS in its infancy. Yet, Dickey, Rumsfeld and Bush said, "maybe later."

[pimpmaster9000]

of course the USA created alquaeda and ISIS...a stable and strong middle east full of oil is against US corporate interests and israel-s too...europe will become us-foreign-policy's septic tank...war inc. gets to make the $$ and then cronies make money on the "rebuild" all out of the pockets of american taxpayers...israel is to blame too...

lets make it perfectly clear: if the USA really wanted ISIS gone it would have happened...they would have called pooty too and made a joint strike and wiped them out in 2-3 days and go home...

but ISIS is part of US foreign policy...and until the EU starts imposing drastic economic sanctions against the USA next time they "defense budget" the shit will be spreading all over the region...

soon people will start pulling their heads out of their asses and pointing the finger at the real cause of the problem and not just blaming the result...until then they will lick US foreign policy asshole like good little brainwashed europeans and taste the shit on their tongue...pussies LOL

[Sarn]

- Wikipedia - edited by the Hasbara project.

Hasbara - Who are these guys?

[Relic]

Hasbara - Who are these guys?

This guy is qualified to explain it to you

[just a punk]

Hasbara - Who are these guys?

I like his accent



P.S. Our American colleagues were on the same side with Taliban...

[PR_Glen]

of course the USA created alquaeda and ISIS...a stable and strong middle east full of oil is against US corporate interests and israel-s too...europe will become us-foreign-policy's septic tank...war inc. gets to make the $$ and then cronies make money on the "rebuild" all out of the pockets of american taxpayers...israel is to blame too...

lets make it perfectly clear: if the USA really wanted ISIS gone it would have happened...they would have called pooty too and made a joint strike and wiped them out in 2-3 days and go home...

but ISIS is part of US foreign policy...and until the EU starts imposing drastic economic sanctions against the USA next time they "defense budget" the shit will be spreading all over the region...

soon people will start pulling their heads out of their asses and pointing the finger at the real cause of the problem and not just blaming the result...until then they will lick US foreign policy asshole like good little brainwashed europeans and taste the shit on their tongue...pussies LOL

it's not that easy. In this case the enemy all hide in places with women and children as human shields. That way if they are ever isolated they can just play the victim card perpetually whether it is an accurate strike or not. It's cowardice at it's purest. It's no wonder why you relate to them so much. You are this boards biggest coward by far--and that is saying a lot.

[pimpmaster9000]

it's not that easy. In this case the enemy all hide in places with women and children as human shields. That way if they are ever isolated they can just play the victim card perpetually whether it is an accurate strike or not. It's cowardice at it's purest. It's no wonder why you relate to them so much. You are this boards biggest coward by far--and that is saying a lot.

no its much simpler than that...IF the USA wanted ISIS gone, they would be gone...their weapons taken away, their oil fields taken away etc...women and children as human shields is no problem to the USA it regularly cluster bombs civilians (me for example)...civilian death toll was never a consideration for the USA, invading over lies was never a problem..

as for bravery I can only laugh at the US army that cruise missiles 3rd world countries to shit and then moves in against a force drafted population with tanks and humvees...you guys are SO brave

sorry I did not run to fight bill "honest" clintons war against minorities in my country...I know you would stand in line to go die for hillary or bush or trump, but I have better plans with my life

thanks for ISIS and alquaeda you guys are really the cancer of the world, and you know it

[gnawledge]

Saddam was torturing and gassing Kurds. If I'm not mistaken, using gas, doing evil that Saddam's brothers were doing kind of makes it weapons of mass destruction. We do get in other people's businesses too many times. Invading for oil? Who knows.

So, Isis is what happens when you invade, get rid of dictatorship, fail to help reastablish with a leader and stay to change the culture of people around. So gangs of outlaws become crazy and overtake.

There is something big coming. WW3? War against Islam, war against Christianity, war against race... Notice Russia may be our ally. To help France and other countries getting invaded and terrorized by Islam... Obama isn't going to help. That's Trump's first assigned task when in office. The EU is gonna beg. We will send just like WW2. But modernized. And we will be fighting alongside Germans, Russians, and Chinese.

[Barry-xlovecam]

I am watching this is 10 or 20 min segments when I take a break -- very good documentary how the USA fucked up in Iraq and how ISIS took Mosul. 1:23:57 Long vid warning.

[pimpmaster9000]

Saddam was torturing and gassing Kurds. If I'm not mistaken, using gas,

Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran | Foreign Policy

thanks USA

[EonBlue]

ISIS is the baby of Muhammad.



.

[Paul Markham]

ISIS is the baby of Islam and tribalism.

[Relentless]

Bush "winning" instead of Gore thanks to a corrupt Supreme Court decision is a moment in history that reshaped the entire world for the worse.

Had Gore won, Isis would not exist, climate change would be decreasing and international relations would be far better globally than they are now.

[shiraz9944]

god you guys will be blaming bush for Hillary's screw ups next.........there is no arguing with people who have made up their mind, a useless endeavor and complete waste of energy.

[Barry-xlovecam]

[Sarn]

This guy is qualified to explain it to you

he so qualified

P.S. Our American colleagues were on the same side with Taliban...

I remember

[Relic]

he so qualified

[EonBlue]

Had Gore won, Isis would not exist, climate change would be decreasing and international relations would be far better globally than they are now.

That's some very bold speculation with zero evidence to back any of it up.

For all you know the middle east and international relations might have ended up in worse shape than they are now.

And almost certainly the climate would be exactly the same as it is now. Gore is nothing but a snake oil salesman and there is no magic thermostat he could have used to control the climate.



.

[Relic]

That's some very bold speculation with zero evidence to back any of it up.
.

If Isis suddenly figures out a way to kill a few thousand or even tens of thousands of people don't be too shocked. I know I won't be. Not that they haven't already but I am referring to at once. Sick maniac extremists and stupid yet they operate in a manner where they test types of attacks first, then execute them later in mass. Whole city blocks are viable targets in a war. Perhaps even entire downtown cores. I am enjoying the air conditioning 100 miles from any major urban center. "speculation".

[EonBlue]

If Isis suddenly figures out a way to kill a few thousand or even tens of thousands of people don't be too shocked. I know I won't be. Not that they haven't already but I am referring to at once. Sick maniac extremists and stupid yet they operate in a manner where they test types of attacks first, then execute them later in mass. Whole city blocks are viable targets in a war. Perhaps even entire downtown cores. I am enjoying the air conditioning 100 miles from any major urban center. "speculation".

Not sure I get why you quoted me. I was referring to speculation by Relentless about what would have happened if Gore had been elected.

I agree that Isis will ramp up their efforts to kill more and more people.



.

[kane]

as for bravery I can only laugh at the US army that cruise missiles 3rd world countries to shit and then moves in against a force drafted population with tanks and humvees...you guys are SO brave

A battle is not about who is the bravest. It is about who wins. The only reason Isis isn't sitting on ship launching cruise missiles or using drones to drop laser guided bombs is because they don't have them.

Sending ground troops in to fight face to face with your enemy when you could simply send a cruise missile in and destroy them is not bravery, it is stupidity.

[kane]

Bush gave birth to Isis and raised it until it was a snarky pre-teen then Obama came in and was trying to be the cool stepfather and let them do as they want and now they are an out of control teenager.

It will be interested to see how the next president decides to deal with them.

[pimpmaster9000]

A battle is not about who is the bravest. It is about who wins. The only reason Isis isn't sitting on ship launching cruise missiles or using drones to drop laser guided bombs is because they don't have them.

Sending ground troops in to fight face to face with your enemy when you could simply send a cruise missile in and destroy them is not bravery, it is stupidity.

I agree...I just chuckle when the US calls somebody a coward or a terrorist...

[J. Falcon]

I agree...I just chuckle when the US calls somebody a coward or a terrorist...

They are cowards because they intentionally target and attack civilians, like they 80 year-old priest they recently murdered in cold blood. In their (terrorists) eyes, civilians are not innocent since they form part of the society that elects and supports governments that cause war and havoc in their countries, which is pretty barbaric and also absurd.

[_Richard_]

strange how nothing seemed to happen till Libya was taken out with all those mercenaries, during the 'arab spring'. i guess blaming it on the last president still works

[kane]

I agree...I just chuckle when the US calls somebody a coward or a terrorist...

Well, a lot of these terrorist are cowards. Taking a gun and shooting up a room full of people just out dancing and having fun at a club is certainly not an act of bravery.

[Joshua G]

Sending ground troops in to fight face to face with your enemy when you could simply send a cruise missile in and destroy them is not bravery, it is stupidity.

actually stupidity is relying totally on your cruise missiles & JDAMS as a substitute for winning, AKA ground troops root them out of their enclaves. obama wants the kurds iraqis & syrians to do the ground troops. They cant even get a force together to get mosul back, nevermind winning.

so 18 months of the obama isis war plan. when do we declare it stupid, & a failure? how many more attacks on the west before even the dems cant take it anymore.

[Paul Markham]

The ME is an archaic culture. It still hasn't emerged from the Dark Ages. Islam reflects the people of the ME like 15th Century Christianity reflected Europeans of the time.

Giving Jews the power to fuck up Palestinians was a very big mistake. Giving Jihadists in Afghanistan arms to fight Russia another big mistake. Just two of a long line of mistakes.

The only policy is to annexe and isolate them. Because they have no intentions of being partners of the West. And killing them is what they want us to do. Just let them kill each other and we buy the oil from the winners.

[femdomdestiny]

ISIS would have come into creation no matter what. ISIS is a group of people with a bad idea. Bush didn't create them, and Obama didn't encourage them.

And there is really nothing you can do to get rid of them all either. Unless you kill everyone who believes in the same thing - which is impossible because you don't know what people believe in - there is no way to defeat them. You cannot really defeat an idea. You can only make "them" uncomfortable to the point where all of them will want to stop and change their ways.

Where was ISIS while Ghaddafi and Saddam were there? People used to work,travel,do business and live. Under their rules, but completely compatible with the rest of the world.

Just like US created similar terrorist structure in kosovo (KLA) , that got their own state later.

[pimpmaster9000]

Well, a lot of these terrorist are cowards. Taking a gun and shooting up a room full of people just out dancing and having fun at a club is certainly not an act of bravery.

neither is dropping more bombs than ww1 and ww2 combined on asia over "lesser of 2 evils" US politics...

[charlie g]

Jürgen Todenhöfer is full of shit. Islamic terrorism has been around in some form or another for 1400 years before Bush. Bombing the ME didnt create ISIS, it was the removal of tyrants from power that let these groups survive and thrive. In the old days Gaddafi or Hussein kills these people, their families and gases the neighbors "just to be sure". So if ISIS belongs to anyone, CiC Obama is the answer.

[Relic]

Not sure I get why you quoted me.
.

i like you

[Barry-xlovecam]

I got some bad news for you Paul;
The Jews were not "given" Palestine by the British they took it AGAIN

The Jews took Jerusalem from the Jesubites (Canaanite tribe [Biblical])
They got it the same way that Nebuchadnezzar took Jerusalem
They got it the same way that Cyrus the Great took Babylon and rebuilt Jerusalem
They got it the same way that Alexander the Great took Jerusalem
They got it the same way that Rome took Jerusalem
They got it the same way that Christian Crusaders (the Holy See) took Jerusalem
They got it the same way that Saladin took Jerusalem

The British Foreign Office's blunders in the Middle East laid the foundation for ISIS to exist. In fact, in ALL the British Mandates from WW1 there is conflict today.

The "Bush twins" and their Brit buddies just stirred the hornet's nest in the ME (and killed 100's of thousands -- really pissing the hornets off).

Neanderthals are still with us

[Barry-xlovecam]

The whole world has be at war since day 1. Since Cain bashed Abel's head in with a rock -- so the story goes

There is no terrorism in Asia, Europe, the Americas or Oceania?

Antarctica is the only continent with no terrorism -- there is no permanent human settlement in Antarctica.

[shiraz9944]

why can't you all just see it's all religion? Without religion logical societies don't have this problem. Muslims now, christians during the crusades..........they are always about killing nonbelievers. Blame whoever you want, but the real problem is religion.