A problem with porn marketing is the lack of non nude content

[DVTimes]

Over the years I have promoted porn sites, it has been the trend to give away nude pics then vids from the site.

You see it both in fhg's and in the websites own tour.

Such to the extent of this, people (even before porn tubes) came aware that with a tiny amount of effort, then could find enough pics and vids of the model(s) they wanted to see nude.

Then with porn tubes finding the content became even easier.

Lets for instance take a solo model site. It would probably take most people under 30 seconds to find nude (if not x-rated) pics and vids of that model on forums/tubes and so on. And I mean the legit content that the webmaster has used to promote the site. The pirated stuff even more so.

Its the one question I ponder a lot is what do the webmasters of these sites (especially solo models) expect will happen? Do you think people will feel the need to join the site when they have already seen the content. And (to be rather crude) had a w*nk over it. The belief is that people will want every pic or vid of her.

You may get a temporary blip such as Kendra Sunderland because (1) she was sexy and (2) became famous. Its possible that for a small period of time people will want to see everything of her. But in general its unlikely.

The great problem is that rather than flood the internet with nude and rude content, sites should have and still should flood it with clothed safe content.

I would presume that if you had two solo model sites started today, that if the webmaster ONLY gave clothed content away and the other the safe nude content that is often used for promoting a site. That the first site would have a much higher rate of sales.
It was a method I used myself when I ran a few pay sites. I had over the years people join my site and email me to say that they joined for one particular model because I had only posted clothed pics of her. I even noticed on forums that people were fuming that they could only see free pics of models clothed, and that they had no option to join.

BUT.....

Again I come back to this question, of what do you expect the result to be if you give your content away for free?

[Roald]

Can't believe no one else came up with these questions before!!

Great post!

[wehateporn]

Excellent post DVTimes!

From my experience the most important bit, at least for the softcore market, is to never give up the pussy. There are so many surfers who want to see it, once they succeed they move on. The pics can tease as close to pussy as possible, they get posted all around the net, the surfers go on a quest to find more revealing pics (which don't exist), many eventually join the site in the hope of finding some in there. With each update they check back to see if pussy is there yet, the photographer needs to think of imaginative ways to make it appear the surfer is getting more each time, then you have them hooked. Even though some will complain about the lack of pussy, don't give in to their demands, as once you do they'll move on, keep them there begging for pussy like a drug addict, that's how to get sales.

One day, after the model has retired, start selling special zipsets (you've been storing) which are more revealing. Play the same game again, but eventually give them what they want.

This technique is more important than ever in these days of piracy, as it stops the surfer from being satisfied for free, in fact they never are fully satisfied, but you have them hooked and they give you sales.

[Goethe]

I have a non-nude "tease" site and agree with the above. The genie needs to be put back in the bottle. If explicit content was put behind credit card verification, it would be a huge step forward. Content already out there will soon become dated and the quest will be to find new scenes, which will need to be accessed with cc verification. I keep my site active in the hope that one day explicit content will need to be behind closed doors.

Is it time for "Porn 2.0" yet?

[DVTimes]

I have often felt affiliates were demanding more and more content, not to get the site sales, but to get more hits to there site.

Sites have seemed to feel the need to have hundreds of fhg's to give to affiliates.

One wonders if they had been simply better off being brave and saying sod off and just provide no more than two or three fhg's.

Its as if there was a fear that if you do not keep pumping out fhg's that you would not get the sales.

Yet logically what benefit is there with 500 fhg's than say just 5? Why give all the content away for free and often full nude.

[DVTimes]

Just to be clear, the idea is people see the clothed and then desperately want to see her nude and as such join to see her.

Its why I have only ever joined a site because I never needed to.

The only site I ever joined was to see the vids because they looked crazy.

But the thing is, if you went into a restaurant and they fed you for free and your full, its unlikely your going to buy dinner.

[Barry-xlovecam]

We don't allow free hardcore cam shows -- we make people pay for that.

[pornguy]

This does not exactly apply 100% but part of your question can be answered by these guys.

gillette.com

They were one of the first companies to give away the most expensive part.

Then they sold the refill blades and made a fortune and a lot more than we see in porn.


"Again I come back to this question, of what do you expect the result to be if you give your content away for free?"

I would have to say most peoples thinking is the updates. They come and stay for the updates so they dont have to wait or search for them.

Apply your non nude idea and the updates become more valuable as does the initial content.

[XMaster]

That's exactly what we do. We give free no nude preview for free. If you wanjt to see the girl naked, you must pay. And that works. + we provide nude and non-nude promo tools.

now you know

[Jigster715]

I agree 100%

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by pornguy

This does not exactly apply 100% but part of your question can be answered by these guys.

gillette.com

They were one of the first companies to give away the most expensive part.

Then they sold the refill blades and made a fortune and a lot more than we see in porn.


"Again I come back to this question, of what do you expect the result to be if you give your content away for free?"

I would have to say most peoples thinking is the updates. They come and stay for the updates so they dont have to wait or search for them.

Apply your non nude idea and the updates become more valuable as does the initial content.

But your logic is wrong.

Gillette is a product you need to buy over and over as it does not last long.

So you give away or sell part of it at a loss in order to make more back on the blades. The profit on blades is huge.

Supermarkets sell milk at a loss.

Some cars sell at a loss and they make money back on car parts.

BUT.....

Porn is a one off sale.

If you give it away - thats the sale. You no longer need to purchase.

This applies more so with solo girl sites.

But even with a site full of models, it may be (and from my experience) many are interested in only one model on that site. Thus if they see her nude then they are happy. Its presumed that the customer will want to see all the other models, but that is not always the case.

You find webmasters presume a lot.

I have. I shot a model and presumed no one would want to see her. I did not think much of her. Yet as time went on I found she was one of the models people joined to see (I still do not see why). But this is a problem, because your never talking to each customer, you end up presuming so much.

[ravenazrael]

I think that tease is better than showing it all.
That applie to websites and even the pornstars themselves.
Remember Denise Milani or Jordan Carver or check out Tegan Brady or Nex Door Nikki. The tease kept the fans going to the site. People went bananas when they spot a nipple and it was like watching a full hardcore for them.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by XMaster

That's exactly what we do. We give free no nude preview for free. If you wanjt to see the girl naked, you must pay. And that works. + we provide nude and non-nude promo tools.

now you know

Istripper is a bit different.

In that your not (unless I am wrong) selling content (as in pics or/and vids) but the stripper software.

The main thing is you GIVE the softwear away (so as a loss), but make the money back on the upgrades.

So for you the nude and non nude pics in the promo tools are more like adverts.

In the same way as in the 70's car adverts and so on would be full of naked females.

But when your product/service is the same thing as you give away free. Then that's crazy. Unless you can see a further sale from it on a regular basis).

[wehateporn]

If Gillette sold laser treatment to permanently kill off male facial hair altogether, that's the equivalent of a softcore model site posting a model's ultimate revealing nudes, now everyone's got what they wanted, no need to join again, services no longer required.

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

But your logic is wrong.

Gillette is a product you need to buy over and over as it does not last long.

So you give away or sell part of it at a loss in order to make more back on the blades. The profit on blades is huge.

Supermarkets sell milk at a loss.

Some cars sell at a loss and they make money back on car parts.

BUT.....

Porn is a one off sale.

If you give it away - thats the sale. You no longer need to purchase.

This applies more so with solo girl sites.

But even with a site full of models, it may be (and from my experience) many are interested in only one model on that site. Thus if they see her nude then they are happy. Its presumed that the customer will want to see all the other models, but that is not always the case.

You find webmasters presume a lot.

I have. I shot a model and presumed no one would want to see her. I did not think much of her. Yet as time went on I found she was one of the models people joined to see (I still do not see why). But this is a problem, because your never talking to each customer, you end up presuming so much.

Then I guess I did something wrong with my recurring model all these years.

Im not fighting with you or trying to start an argument.

But the common surfer does not see it the way you are.

Dont get me wrong I have always said less skin will be more sales.

But its hard as hell to compete with a clothed girl for free to a nude one.

[LovinNothin]

The OP is so stoned and caught in a time warp in the year 2001.

PORN = FREE.

Doesn't matter if the models are clothed, naked, ass fucked, ear fucked, eye fucked, fucked while reading a book, fucked while fucking, and most important: fucked while eating green eggs and ham.

Analyzing a product that you want to sell, when ALL of that product is already free online, is quite simply, INSANE.

[Goethe]

Originally Posted by LovinNothin

Analyzing a product that you want to sell, when ALL of that product is already free online, is quite simply, INSANE.

He has a point...

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by LovinNothin

The OP is so stoned and caught in a time warp in the year 2001.

PORN = FREE.

Doesn't matter if the models are clothed, naked, ass fucked, ear fucked, eye fucked, fucked while reading a book, fucked while fucking, and most important: fucked while eating green eggs and ham.

Analyzing a product that you want to sell, when ALL of that product is already free online, is quite simply, INSANE.

No.

If you read what I stated you would not be giving your pics and vids away free.

Yes, others may have and thats fine.

But lets say you have exclusive models on your site (I used to myself), then people have no choice to join.

In other words you may be better having ugly exclusive models than hot models everyone has seen all over the place free.

You see what your stating is that because someone sees model A nude on model site A then thats the same as me trying to sell salt while everyone else is giving salt away free. But that is not the case.

Just becase somone has seen a lot of model A from site A does not mean they will not want to see model B nude from model B site. So its more like I am trying to sell pepper while others may be giving salt (and other spices) away for free.

As long as your the ONLY one with pepper, there is no need to give it away free.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

If Gillette sold laser treatment to permanently kill off male facial hair altogether, that's the equivalent of a softcore model site posting a model's ultimate revealing nudes, now everyone's got what they wanted, no need to join again, services no longer required.

Not realy, because you have stated Gillette is selling the treatment.

Its not a good example, as even if Gillette did this, each year there would be more male customers who would pay for the treatment (as each year people are born).

The old story is that its possible to make a razer blade that never blunts. But as soon as you make it, the industry dies. In fact there is a classic British film from years ago what mocks this. I think its the man in the white suite. The material never wears out or gets dirty. Thus killing off clothes firms and washing powder firms.

By the way I do not think laser treatment is permanent. I think you need many treatments.

[TheLegacy]

DVTimes - this is why I always enjoy your posts. Excellent points.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by TheLegacy

DVTimes - this is why I always enjoy your posts. Excellent points.

I thank you.

I do worry that what I post may sound correct in my head, but when people read it, its nonsense.

[DVTimes]

Please also see this post:

https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...keep-them.html

[charlie g]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

But your logic is wrong.

Gillette is a product you need to buy over and over as it does not last long.

So you give away or sell part of it at a loss in order to make more back on the blades. The profit on blades is huge.
....

BUT.....

Porn is a one off sale.

If you give it away - thats the sale. You no longer need to purchase.
......

great thread. i believe that porn is disposable as there are very few scenes I can fap to more than once. once you've seen it it loses the "new car smell".

you may indeed catch more fish by teasing them. but if it is content a consumer wants he will buy to see more of what he wants.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by charlie g

great thread. i believe that porn is disposable as there are very few scenes I can fap to more than once. once you've seen it it loses the "new car smell".

you may indeed catch more fish by teasing them. but if it is content a consumer wants he will buy to see more of what he wants.

True

I do not think I have ever watch any clip on a porn tube more than once.

[Denny]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

Excellent post DVTimes!

From my experience the most important bit, at least for the softcore market, is to never give up the pussy. There are so many surfers who want to see it, once they succeed they move on. The pics can tease as close to pussy as possible, they get posted all around the net, the surfers go on a quest to find more revealing pics (which don't exist), many eventually join the site in the hope of finding some in there. With each update they check back to see if pussy is there yet, the photographer needs to think of imaginative ways to make it appear the surfer is getting more each time, then you have them hooked. Even though some will complain about the lack of pussy, don't give in to their demands, as once you do they'll move on, keep them there begging for pussy like a drug addict, that's how to get sales.

One day, after the model has retired, start selling special zipsets (you've been storing) which are more revealing. Play the same game again, but eventually give them what they want.

This technique is more important than ever in these days of piracy, as it stops the surfer from being satisfied for free, in fact they never are fully satisfied, but you have them hooked and they give you sales.

[XMaster]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Istripper is a bit different.

In that your not (unless I am wrong) selling content (as in pics or/and vids) but the stripper software.

The main thing is you GIVE the softwear away (so as a loss), but make the money back on the upgrades.

So for you the nude and non nude pics in the promo tools are more like adverts.

In the same way as in the 70's car adverts and so on would be full of naked females.

But when your product/service is the same thing as you give away free. Then that's crazy. Unless you can see a further sale from it on a regular basis).

Actually you're wrong. We are selling content. Not the software

[Neighbor]

The market became saturated and most programs decided to loosen the restrictions on what can be viewed for free in order to gain an advantage and conversions. Unfortunately, it's hard to come back from that mentality from a consumers' POV, and this can only be accomplished if the industry as a whole changed.... but there are always some that will not, so there's no going back.

You may however reach a new audience by no revealing nudes and getting some placement in more "mainstream" channels. Never know unless you try.

A tip for going "non-nude": SEO your sites! Many companies bypass this method of marketing in our industry because they assume affiliate marketing and media buying is enough. With the right strategy, you can really see the benefits.... oh, and also the return as that traffic will have a minimal cost.

My 2 cents...

[DVTimes]

Some good points.

[Paul Markham]

This thread is 16 years too late.

[Forkbeard]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

I have often felt affiliates were demanding more and more content, not to get the site sales, but to get more hits to there site.

Well, in my conception of things the content doesn't draw much traffic directly any more; that worked best when people could still use image search to find porn. But a site looking dead because it hasn't published anything new since forever, that definitely kills traffic; so having fresh content on my sites remains important.

Honestly sometimes sales are secondary, because they are so hard to get these days. But secondary still MATTERS; there's very little point in posting content with no revenue potential whatsoever.

I never "demand" new content but I do focus my promotion on programs that make it the easiest to discover and use their photo content. Even the best FHG system is a pain to work with because the subset of photos chosen for a FHG often doesn't overlap with the subset that would work best with my traffic. A lot of programs have non-nude content in their photosets, they just don't choose it for their FHGs, if they even bother to make FHGs any more.

I run my sites on a sort of "hard R" basis, preferring not to show genitals for the most part. There are a lot of programs where the only way to promote them like this is if they will give me a pass with permission to pull whatever I want from the member content. On any given day when I want to throw up a fast post, my login links are where I start, not somebody's frustrating FHG tool.

[Rochard]

I agree with this. Tease the customers. If you give them the milk for free they won't need the cow.

[scarlettcontent]

we need none nude content

[MakeMeGrrrrowl]

On my phone sex site we don't show any spread pussy photos on our pages. They only come with a call. Every call a guy does, he gets different money shots. Gotta spend the money to see the honey.

I would work pay sites the same way, but I'm pretty clueless on the paysite thing. Gotta make the guy so curious as to what's under the panties he has to pay to see it. That's my thought.

[AmeliaG]

Some affiliates sell SpookyCash sites best with explicit content and some best with nonnude. I think it is ideal to offer both.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Give them free hardcore and generate millions of page views. What does that pay? Ad revenue -- it doesn't sell the product that generates the traffic.

What if Amazon gave away free kindle books?
They do give away some -- basically books that are 'info books' advertising,
but if they gave away the good books to sell ads and paid the authors a rev-share of the advertising money -- advertising for Walmart online or some other mainstream seller that was more non-competitive?

If Amazon did that you would be hard pressed to sell a digital book.

That is the way it is going -- the freemium model. Adapt or die ...

What if tubes shared the ad money with the content producers?

Tubes will find themselves in an adapt or die situation eventually.
Make the tubes pay for the content and stop dreaming about the DMCA and copyright laws to stop the bleeding -- it hasn't yet and never will. You cannot turn back the hands of time -- that is the second oldest lie. The oldest lie is I wont cum in your mouth

[Google Expert]

Originally Posted by Neighbor

SEO your sites!

When was the last time you checked adult search results?

Everything is owned by tubes. You have no chance at outranking them.

Some "Sales & Marketing" Director you are

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Give them free hardcore and generate millions of page views. What does that pay? Ad revenue -- it doesn't sell the product that generates the traffic.

What if Amazon gave away free kindle books?
They do give away some -- basically books that are 'info books' advertising,
but if they gave away the good books to sell ads and paid the authors a rev-share of the advertising money -- advertising for Walmart online or some other mainstream seller that was more non-competitive?

If Amazon did that you would be hard pressed to sell a digital book.

That is the way it is going -- the freemium model. Adapt or die ...

What if tubes shared the ad money with the content producers?

Tubes will find themselves in an adapt or die situation eventually.
Make the tubes pay for the content and stop dreaming about the DMCA and copyright laws to stop the bleeding -- it hasn't yet and never will. You cannot turn back the hands of time -- that is the second oldest lie. The oldest lie is I wont cum in your mouth

If the people giving away free content won;t stop and do all they can to give away more. The obvious solution is to change the product.

I try to discuss how to do that, you're so bent on trolling you troll and ignore the obvious.

[Paul Markham]

Tubes have zero intention of changing, expecting them to share ad revenue when people are fighting and paying to give them content is stupid.

All that can be done is to change the product you're selling. Because free porn will keep growing and the loss of revenue will grow along with it. Praying VR will save the industry is also a long shot. But I hope it does.

The only thing that will save a few is to change the product. We know what some paying customers want and not getting from pre-recorded porn, we know free 20-minute jerk off clips are everywhere.

All we can do is change the product and marketing.

[Twoface31]

ummmmm im also thinking of that also.....