PaySites Have To Change Before It's Too Late. Here Are Some Ideas...

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  • Kafka
    Confirmed User
    • Oct 2002
    • 466
    #301
    Originally posted by The Porn Nerd
    The #1 problem with shooters and they way they shoot porn? Too much focus on cock in pussy (or asshole).

    Guys do NOT want to look at a cock sliding into a pussy 50,000 times for eight minutes straight. In fact, to show how useless most shooters are:

    Gorgeous girl, in the midst of pleasure, her face contorted with ecstasy...the shooter IMMEDIATELY pulls away and goes down to the pussy. Man is fondling her beautiful breasts - shooter IMMEDIATELY goes back to the pussy. It's almost as if the shooter is emotionally uncomfortable with anything 'real' or focusing on the beauty of the female form. Nope, gotta be a CLOSEUP of a cock drilling a pussy for eight minutes.

    Get it? No, probably not. LOL Carry on.

    It can be worse, in the eighties often the camera panned to the guy's face. Wankers cumming looking at an ugly male face.

      Comment

      • Paul Markham
        Too old to care
        • Jun 2001
        • 52942
        #302
        Originally posted by Kafka
        It can be worse, in the eighties often the camera panned to the guy's face. Wankers cumming looking at an ugly male face.
        You were buying gay films.



        Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
        PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

          Comment

          • Pseudonymous
            Photographer/Owner
            • Apr 2006
            • 2661
            #303
            Originally posted by AmeliaG
            I like you and like your work, so don't take this wrong, but name 3 pay sites (not owned by tubes because they monetize differently) which are paying remotely $10k a scene for pay site content.
            Why would you limit the companies to who are not involved in tubes? As an industry matures, the strongest survive and the weak begin to die, obviously. The remaining companies begin to be a little more corporate and have their hands in everything as few companies begin to take over. Almost all big companies have their hands in other brands/including tubes. Half of them, thats the reason theyre still alive to begin with. It bought them the profit/time in order to learn what sells in todays market and continue to be successful. So basically youre saying, what small sites who can't afford or weren't smart enough to get involved in tube sites are still producing content at a high cost? Obviously that number will be limited. It has no reflection on the current state of paysites

            Blacked owners are involved in a large tube, however it doesn't mean they could not have reached the success without it, it just helped them reach the level they are at, perhaps at a faster pace. Anybody is free to use tubes to their advantage. It is just more obvious to tube owners what sells and what profit they can make off their sites so theyre more willing to spend, they also have less "risk" because they have the traffic already and aren't as scared to spend the money. They were also the ones smart enough and had the budget in order to get involved with them. The people without the budget weren't typically the smartest, given how lucrative this industry was.

            Not being involved in tubes isn't an excuse to be a failure.

            Tubes are the highest source of traffic/sales, so why would they not be involved?

            Strange question is all
            Previous owner of SoloRevenue
            Previous product manager @ Modelcentro.com/MCProfits.com, IsMyGirl.com, SMRevenue.com

              Comment

              • Pseudonymous
                Photographer/Owner
                • Apr 2006
                • 2661
                #304
                Originally posted by Paul Markham
                Have you ever been in the porn industry apart from driving traffic?
                I am right now, producing in 2016 for some of todays top pornstars. I have went from driving traffic to being an owner and worrying about ROI and dealing with producers to producing myself in todays market. So yes im familiar with all sides, which most are not. Its very easy to have an opinion that stems from one area of expertise but until you've really been on all sides, and in todays market as well, you really dont have a full grasp. IMO
                Previous owner of SoloRevenue
                Previous product manager @ Modelcentro.com/MCProfits.com, IsMyGirl.com, SMRevenue.com

                  Comment

                  • AmeliaG
                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 10662
                    #305
                    Originally posted by Pseudonymous
                    Why would you limit the companies to who are not involved in tubes? As an industry matures, the strongest survive and the weak begin to die, obviously. The remaining companies begin to be a little more corporate and have their hands in everything as few companies begin to take over. Almost all big companies have their hands in other brands/including tubes. Half of them, thats the reason theyre still alive to begin with. It bought them the profit/time in order to learn what sells in todays market and continue to be successful. So basically youre saying, what small sites who can't afford or weren't smart enough to get involved in tube sites are still producing content at a high cost? Obviously that number will be limited. It has no reflection on the current state of paysites

                    Blacked owners are involved in a large tube, however it doesn't mean they could not have reached the success without it, it just helped them reach the level they are at, perhaps at a faster pace. Anybody is free to use tubes to their advantage. It is just more obvious to tube owners what sells and what profit they can make off their sites so theyre more willing to spend, they also have less "risk" because they have the traffic already and aren't as scared to spend the money. They were also the ones smart enough and had the budget in order to get involved with them. The people without the budget weren't typically the smartest, given how lucrative this industry was.

                    Not being involved in tubes isn't an excuse to be a failure.

                    Tubes are the highest source of traffic/sales, so why would they not be involved?

                    Strange question is all

                    Because tubes monetize differently, what it makes sense for a tube to spend on is very different from what it makes sense for a pay site to spend on. Aside from all the factors you mentioned, which I agree with, the most important factor is the business model is different.

                    The topic is not would it be awesome to decide to fail (only with super excuses), but what should pay sites do. All I'm saying is pay sites should not spend like their business model is different from what it is.
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                      Comment

                      • Paul Markham
                        Too old to care
                        • Jun 2001
                        • 52942
                        #306
                        Originally posted by Pseudonymous
                        Why would you limit the companies to who are not involved in tubes? As an industry matures, the strongest survive and the weak begin to die, obviously. The remaining companies begin to be a little more corporate and have their hands in everything as few companies begin to take over. Almost all big companies have their hands in other brands/including tubes. Half of them, thats the reason theyre still alive to begin with. It bought them the profit/time in order to learn what sells in todays market and continue to be successful. So basically youre saying, what small sites who can't afford or weren't smart enough to get involved in tube sites are still producing content at a high cost? Obviously that number will be limited. It has no reflection on the current state of paysites

                        Blacked owners are involved in a large tube, however it doesn't mean they could not have reached the success without it, it just helped them reach the level they are at, perhaps at a faster pace. Anybody is free to use tubes to their advantage. It is just more obvious to tube owners what sells and what profit they can make off their sites so theyre more willing to spend, they also have less "risk" because they have the traffic already and aren't as scared to spend the money. They were also the ones smart enough and had the budget in order to get involved with them. The people without the budget weren't typically the smartest, given how lucrative this industry was.

                        Not being involved in tubes isn't an excuse to be a failure.

                        Tubes are the highest source of traffic/sales, so why would they not be involved?

                        Strange question is all
                        I suspect Tubes pay very little for traffic to their sites, this saves them a huge chunk other paysites have to payout. The Tubes run at a profit anyway.

                        However, it doesn't take a huge budget to produce kick ass porn. It takes a lot of porn production skill and sites that are willing to pay for that skill are few and far between. Which takes us back to Tube Sites.

                        I could produce kick ass porn, along with many others, Buttman, Ben Dover, Ed Powers, etc. Will Tubes pay us the money we want or get some lame dick who works cheap to do it on a tight budget?



                        Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                        PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                          Comment

                          • Paul Markham
                            Too old to care
                            • Jun 2001
                            • 52942
                            #307
                            Originally posted by Pseudonymous
                            I am right now, producing in 2016 for some of todays top pornstars. I have went from driving traffic to being an owner and worrying about ROI and dealing with producers to producing myself in todays market. So yes im familiar with all sides, which most are not. Its very easy to have an opinion that stems from one area of expertise but until you've really been on all sides, and in todays market as well, you really dont have a full grasp. IMO
                            You talk as if great porn just falls off a shelf. Which made me think you weren't in the sharp end of producing it.



                            Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                            PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                              Comment

                              • Barry-xlovecam
                                It's 42
                                • Jun 2010
                                • 18083
                                #308
                                You got it all wrong (as usual).
                                • Investing in new technologies can yield great returns or tax losses. No balls no glory.
                                • The second to wost thing that can happen to a business model is commiditization even worse is the zero sum game of free.

                                So there is;
                                1. the niche market that will pay for a unique value proposition,
                                2. the middle market of value buyers (*Netflix or Amazon prime),
                                3. the low market 100% advertised subsidized.

                                Whether or not the content is legit or copyright infringing will not make you any money this instant (today). Youtube is proof of this business model. It's not going away.

                                Trying to convert the low market to a higher market is going to be an uphill struggle with a lousy ROMI (return on marketing investment).

                                  Comment

                                  • webgurl
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Aug 2002
                                    • 7954
                                    #309
                                    Shap! Look what you started, a monster size thread! I'm just in here for sport, hope you are doing great!

                                      Comment

                                      • The Porn Nerd
                                        Living The Dream
                                        • Jun 2009
                                        • 19784
                                        #310
                                        Originally posted by JayAllan
                                        Not ever in my scenes ;) But you are totally correct.
                                        My comments do not apply to you Sir. You are in the top 1% of talented shooters on the planet.

                                        Originally posted by Pseudonymous
                                        Why would you limit the companies to who are not involved in tubes? As an industry matures, the strongest survive and the weak begin to die, obviously. The remaining companies begin to be a little more corporate and have their hands in everything as few companies begin to take over. Almost all big companies have their hands in other brands/including tubes. Half of them, thats the reason theyre still alive to begin with. It bought them the profit/time in order to learn what sells in todays market and continue to be successful. So basically youre saying, what small sites who can't afford or weren't smart enough to get involved in tube sites are still producing content at a high cost? Obviously that number will be limited. It has no reflection on the current state of paysites

                                        Blacked owners are involved in a large tube, however it doesn't mean they could not have reached the success without it, it just helped them reach the level they are at, perhaps at a faster pace. Anybody is free to use tubes to their advantage. It is just more obvious to tube owners what sells and what profit they can make off their sites so theyre more willing to spend, they also have less "risk" because they have the traffic already and aren't as scared to spend the money. They were also the ones smart enough and had the budget in order to get involved with them. The people without the budget weren't typically the smartest, given how lucrative this industry was.

                                        Not being involved in tubes isn't an excuse to be a failure.

                                        Tubes are the highest source of traffic/sales, so why would they not be involved?

                                        Strange question is all
                                        AmeliaG can speak for herself but to expand on what I think she was getting at:

                                        There are tubes and large companies who finance paysite production. They have exclusive agreements with the mega-tubes. Therefore the tubes are spending more than a paysite not financed by a tube would spend. I know what an expensive, professional shoot costs and most small paysites doing 10 joins a day or less cannot compete on that level. So what we are left with is a handful of mega-paysites being financed by mega-tubes to keep the whole daisy chain of porn going. This will continue for years to come, I think, while smaller paysites will have to re-adjust their marketing and expectations because you simply cannot 'compete' with a Blacked or DDF if they are being financed by million dollar tubes.
                                        My Affiliate Programs:
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                                        Over 90 paysites to promote!
                                        Now on Teams: peabodymedia

                                          Comment

                                          • lagwagon
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Jul 2001
                                            • 8464
                                            #311
                                            If people keep bumping this thread it will never die. Wait!

                                            FTVGirls - FTVMilfs - DanielleFTV

                                              Comment

                                              • fuzebox
                                                making it rain
                                                • Oct 2003
                                                • 22351
                                                #312
                                                Originally posted by The Porn Nerd
                                                most small paysites doing 10 joins a day or less
                                                I assumed this was a business thread.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Bladewire
                                                    StraightBro
                                                    • Aug 2003
                                                    • 56228
                                                    #313
                                                    Originally posted by fuzebox
                                                    I assumed this was a business thread.
                                                    It isn't?


                                                    Skype: CallTomNow

                                                      Comment

                                                      • phil-flash
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Apr 2003
                                                        • 650
                                                        #314
                                                        I read this thread to the end of page 5 and I couldn't take it any longer.

                                                        There is power in numbers. If we could get a coalition of producers and site owners together, maybe we would be able to come up with enough resources to push the tubes and file lockers out.

                                                        I know I can't do it, a lawsuit would chew me up and spit me out. That's probably the same for most of us. We need a "Trump type figure" to lead this and make it happen. Someone who kicks the door in, and goes for the juggler.

                                                        There is no magic potion in my opinion. It's been said a million times on this board. If it's free... sales go to shit. Most people would say that compared to the past, that sales are shit.

                                                        You cannot walk into wal mart and walk out with a new fishing pole. You have to pay for it. If everything can be locked up in our tours and members areas again... the people will pay for it. They JUST WOULD.

                                                        THERE IS NO MAGIC POTION. The free content has to stop.

                                                        I believe a focus should be on finding a Trump type figure to lead this cause, gather followers and recourses, and take on the free content sites, tubes, and file lockers.

                                                        Maybe even the billing companies could invest in this. They have big money, and I am sure that if the reign of free porn would end... that the billing companies would make larger fortunes than before since there are more "potential buyers" and more devices to access porn from than ever before.

                                                        Let me guess though, the billing companies are probably in bed with the tube sites and file locker rev share programs...

                                                        Would anyone be interested in trying to start something like this up?


                                                        phil-flash Cash - Gallery Exporter

                                                          Comment

                                                          • JayAllan
                                                            So Fucking Banned
                                                            • Jan 2008
                                                            • 1148
                                                            #315
                                                            Originally posted by The Porn Nerd
                                                            My comments do not apply to you Sir. You are in the top 1% of talented shooters on the planet.

                                                            I don't know about that but thank you
                                                            Now just let me know where to send you the check

                                                              Comment

                                                              • The Porn Nerd
                                                                Living The Dream
                                                                • Jun 2009
                                                                • 19784
                                                                #316
                                                                Originally posted by phil-flash
                                                                I read this thread to the end of page 5 and I couldn't take it any longer.

                                                                There is power in numbers. If we could get a coalition of producers and site owners together, maybe we would be able to come up with enough resources to push the tubes and file lockers out.

                                                                I know I can't do it, a lawsuit would chew me up and spit me out. That's probably the same for most of us. We need a "Trump type figure" to lead this and make it happen. Someone who kicks the door in, and goes for the juggler.

                                                                There is no magic potion in my opinion. It's been said a million times on this board. If it's free... sales go to shit. Most people would say that compared to the past, that sales are shit.

                                                                You cannot walk into wal mart and walk out with a new fishing pole. You have to pay for it. If everything can be locked up in our tours and members areas again... the people will pay for it. They JUST WOULD.

                                                                THERE IS NO MAGIC POTION. The free content has to stop.

                                                                I believe a focus should be on finding a Trump type figure to lead this cause, gather followers and recourses, and take on the free content sites, tubes, and file lockers.

                                                                Maybe even the billing companies could invest in this. They have big money, and I am sure that if the reign of free porn would end... that the billing companies would make larger fortunes than before since there are more "potential buyers" and more devices to access porn from than ever before.

                                                                Let me guess though, the billing companies are probably in bed with the tube sites and file locker rev share programs...

                                                                Would anyone be interested in trying to start something like this up?
                                                                Mike South?

                                                                Originally posted by JayAllan
                                                                Now just let me know where to send you the check
                                                                Put it towards the cost of production. Lighting and makeup can get expensive.
                                                                My Affiliate Programs:
                                                                Porn Nerd Cash | Porn Showcase | Aggressive Gold

                                                                Over 90 paysites to promote!
                                                                Now on Teams: peabodymedia

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • phil-flash
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Apr 2003
                                                                    • 650
                                                                    #317
                                                                    Originally posted by The Porn Nerd
                                                                    Mike South?
                                                                    Sure... who ever can do it. I could do it, I just need the backing and Capitol.

                                                                    Anyone know why the billing companies would not want to take a stand? Or support such a cause?


                                                                    phil-flash Cash - Gallery Exporter

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Shap
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • May 2001
                                                                        • 8313
                                                                        #318
                                                                        Originally posted by webgurl
                                                                        Shap! Look what you started, a monster size thread! I'm just in here for sport, hope you are doing great!
                                                                        I've still got it

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Pseudonymous
                                                                            Photographer/Owner
                                                                            • Apr 2006
                                                                            • 2661
                                                                            #319
                                                                            Originally posted by AmeliaG
                                                                            Because tubes monetize differently, what it makes sense for a tube to spend on is very different from what it makes sense for a pay site to spend on. Aside from all the factors you mentioned, which I agree with, the most important factor is the business model is different.

                                                                            The topic is not would it be awesome to decide to fail (only with super excuses), but what should pay sites do. All I'm saying is pay sites should not spend like their business model is different from what it is.
                                                                            A site as good as theirs, will reach the entire audience if its good enough, it will just take a bit longer to reach such audience, i mean, unless you are lacking the marketing expertise. Given the profit margin of top produced sites, it still should not be a problem to have budgets similar to what they (companies who also own a tube) started with. Just because they spend (lets say 5-7k a scene), doesn't mean you can't match their quality for a bit less and then up it to what they spend once you launch. You may have to spend that much longer finding the perfect locations at a bit of a discount, use a few connections, search a little longer for cheaper marketing help, editors, etc. You do not need to pay riley reid 10k for 2 scenes, this is only what they do once they have the money. You'd be surprised how much fat these big companies have, its because they've been around for ages and they don't care enough to trim it all because they make more than enough to support it. A new company starting in 2016 could do things at a discount as long as they match quality, they'll be fine. Theres no excuse for not producing the same quality they do, like i mentioned before, i know of many companies spending high budgets on scenes, enough to produce the same quality as the companies who also own tubes and their product is nowhere as good, that has nothing to do with them owning tubes. Besides that your producers do not have the talent and you choose to stick with whats comfortable and make excuses for why you cannot reach that level. Instead of realizing you just do not have the eye or drive.

                                                                            With that said, i do not think them owning tubes should make you shoot for less cost, because you will never be able to compete. Dont suggest tubes are dying because you cannot afford all the tools they all use to their advantage. Tubes are a tool and they purchase them. The thread is about the state of paysites. People who do not own tubes can still utilize said tubes.
                                                                            Previous owner of SoloRevenue
                                                                            Previous product manager @ Modelcentro.com/MCProfits.com, IsMyGirl.com, SMRevenue.com

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Pseudonymous
                                                                                Photographer/Owner
                                                                                • Apr 2006
                                                                                • 2661
                                                                                #320
                                                                                It is still very easy to achieve a product in the top 5 percent (in terms of product quality), as the standard within porn is very low, if you produce a good quality product in the top 5 percent, utilizing tubes, affiliates, etc should be more than enough to launch you to the top. Gamma finally checked all the boxes on the requirements sheet when they created Girlsway, they got top talent, a producer with an eye, good story/intro, high quality lighting and production, graphic content (they tried launching softcore products before), and now they have a product that launched to the top. It really isn't as hard as people make it out to be. People just either dont know the simple checklist or people with no eye thinking theyre checking them off.

                                                                                Gamma own any big tubes? (im sure they own something but im not sure if any major ones). If not, they would be an example.

                                                                                Show me a site done that well that has failed, it hasn't happened unless a very very clear lack of marketing experience. Until high quality sites start failing, there is no problem with paysites. Ive asked this so many times and people have yet to show me one. Exceptions to people who try to duplicate their product in order to expand, for example, xart creates a second site with an identical style, the market isn't that big, you can't just duplicate things to the T, same locations, same talent, same producer, and expect another big paysite
                                                                                Previous owner of SoloRevenue
                                                                                Previous product manager @ Modelcentro.com/MCProfits.com, IsMyGirl.com, SMRevenue.com

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Paul Markham
                                                                                    Too old to care
                                                                                    • Jun 2001
                                                                                    • 52942
                                                                                    #321
                                                                                    Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam
                                                                                    You got it all wrong (as usual).
                                                                                    • Investing in new technologies can yield great returns or tax losses. No balls no glory.
                                                                                    • The second to wost thing that can happen to a business model is commiditization even worse is the zero sum game of free.

                                                                                    So there is;
                                                                                    1. the niche market that will pay for a unique value proposition,
                                                                                    2. the middle market of value buyers (*Netflix or Amazon prime),
                                                                                    3. the low market 100% advertised subsidized.

                                                                                    Whether or not the content is legit or copyright infringing will not make you any money this instant (today). Youtube is proof of this business model. It's not going away.

                                                                                    Trying to convert the low market to a higher market is going to be an uphill struggle with a lousy ROMI (return on marketing investment).
                                                                                    Technology is only good when the rank and file can't adopt it.

                                                                                    Trying to convert the low market to the higher market is going to be an uphill struggle with a lousy ROMI (return on product investment). All the marketing in the world can't make shit shine. Youtube and Pornhub are proof of that. Along with the top webcam sites.

                                                                                    Incidentally when will your new one be launched?



                                                                                    Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                                                    PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Paul Markham
                                                                                        Too old to care
                                                                                        • Jun 2001
                                                                                        • 52942
                                                                                        #322
                                                                                        Originally posted by The Porn Nerd
                                                                                        My comments do not apply to you Sir. You are in the top 1% of talented shooters on the planet.
                                                                                        There are top sites, employing top producers. see any link?





                                                                                        There are tubes and large companies who finance paysite production. They have exclusive agreements with the mega-tubes. Therefore the tubes are spending more than a paysite not financed by a tube would spend. I know what an expensive, professional shoot costs and most small paysites doing 10 joins a day or less cannot compete on that level. So what we are left with is a handful of mega-paysites being financed by mega-tubes to keep the whole daisy chain of porn going. This will continue for years to come, I think, while smaller paysites will have to re-adjust their marketing and expectations because you simply cannot 'compete' with a Blacked or DDF if they are being financed by million dollar tubes.
                                                                                        Tubes with their own paysites are winning because they pay little to market the product and to affiliates. Those with special deals are the sites with great content bringing traffic to the tubes and making them stay.

                                                                                        Even sites with 100 sign ups a day couldn't afford decent content. By the time all the expenses and profit's removed there was little left to afford $1,000 for a decent solo girl scene. I lost count of the times someone said to me

                                                                                        Site owner "I want content like yours where the girls get into it."

                                                                                        Me "I shoot two of them a day, give me $2,000 for it."

                                                                                        Site owner "I can't afford that, I'll pay you $1,500 for 5 scenes"

                                                                                        Me "I can't shoot that because girls can't do it 5 times and I can earn $1,000 for one scene anyway."

                                                                                        So they ended up with a members area that people got tired of after a month and retention sucked.

                                                                                        That's my marketing skills coming out there.



                                                                                        Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                                                        PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • Paul Markham
                                                                                            Too old to care
                                                                                            • Jun 2001
                                                                                            • 52942
                                                                                            #323
                                                                                            Originally posted by phil-flash
                                                                                            I read this thread to the end of page 5 and I couldn't take it any longer.

                                                                                            There is power in numbers. If we could get a coalition of producers and site owners together,
                                                                                            The time for a coalition of producers and site owners. Was 1998-2000. They were the years when site owners should have gone into partnership with top producers and created more great sites.

                                                                                            As for stopping free porn. Can't be done. We have to sell more than flesh these days.



                                                                                            Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                                                            PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • Barry-xlovecam
                                                                                                It's 42
                                                                                                • Jun 2010
                                                                                                • 18083
                                                                                                #324
                                                                                                Originally posted by Paul Markham


                                                                                                Incidentally when will your new one be launched?
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                                                                                                Premium domain sales mid Fall 2016
                                                                                                Open registration at your registrar this Winter.
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                                                                                                This is a registry -- not a website

                                                                                                porn.cam is for (pre) sale

                                                                                                I have a lot of 2-6 (letter) dictionary word.cam names for presale as well as numbered and short random number domains for presale too.

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • AmeliaG
                                                                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                    • Jan 2003
                                                                                                    • 10662
                                                                                                    #325
                                                                                                    Originally posted by Pseudonymous
                                                                                                    A site as good as theirs, will reach the entire audience if its good enough, it will just take a bit longer to reach such audience, i mean, unless you are lacking the marketing expertise. Given the profit margin of top produced sites, it still should not be a problem to have budgets similar to what they (companies who also own a tube) started with. Just because they spend (lets say 5-7k a scene), doesn't mean you can't match their quality for a bit less and then up it to what they spend once you launch. You may have to spend that much longer finding the perfect locations at a bit of a discount, use a few connections, search a little longer for cheaper marketing help, editors, etc. You do not need to pay riley reid 10k for 2 scenes, this is only what they do once they have the money. You'd be surprised how much fat these big companies have, its because they've been around for ages and they don't care enough to trim it all because they make more than enough to support it. A new company starting in 2016 could do things at a discount as long as they match quality, they'll be fine. Theres no excuse for not producing the same quality they do, like i mentioned before, i know of many companies spending high budgets on scenes, enough to produce the same quality as the companies who also own tubes and their product is nowhere as good, that has nothing to do with them owning tubes. Besides that your producers do not have the talent and you choose to stick with whats comfortable and make excuses for why you cannot reach that level. Instead of realizing you just do not have the eye or drive.

                                                                                                    With that said, i do not think them owning tubes should make you shoot for less cost, because you will never be able to compete. Dont suggest tubes are dying because you cannot afford all the tools they all use to their advantage. Tubes are a tool and they purchase them. The thread is about the state of paysites. People who do not own tubes can still utilize said tubes.


                                                                                                    I agree with everything you are saying about what pay sites can do to produce quality content. I assume when you say "your" you mean that generically and not me personally.

                                                                                                    Regarding tubes, please do not hear me saying what other people have as common complaints about tubes or how tubes can be used as marketing tools. None of that is relevant to this thread topic, so none of that was remotely my point.

                                                                                                    Simply advertising an in-house pay site is not at all the only way a tube would monetize that type of content.

                                                                                                    So, for example, while Jay Allen might be able to do Game of Thrones level cinematography, if his business model is not to sell shows to HBO, he isn't going to want to spend like that is how he is monetizing. Is that more clear?
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                                                                                                      • Google Expert
                                                                                                        Webmaster
                                                                                                        • Jun 2004
                                                                                                        • 14294
                                                                                                        #326
                                                                                                        Originally posted by ruff
                                                                                                        That's right on. Shap I appreciate your threads, but why don't you show us a "from scratch" project with pictures and arrows and a description. I don't mean to offend, but talk is cheap. You made bank before tubes, odds are, you could not duplicate your success again.
                                                                                                        Someone who gets it ^^

                                                                                                        If he knew how to do it - he wouldn't be shopping around for already established projects that make money.

                                                                                                        Selling his paysite back then was the best business decision of his life. Had he not, the paysite and the affiliate program would have been closed by now.

                                                                                                        Selling GayTube.com was very dumb. I used to be a constant ad spot buyer. When the new owners took over they immediately jacked up the ad spot prices by 2-3 times. And still i continued to buy. I have no idea how much he sold it for, but the money he had been losing on undervalued ad spots and the potential money lost after the sale is very significant.


                                                                                                        Originally posted by Bladewire
                                                                                                        3) Change billing but you don't know how.

                                                                                                        4) Change something to evolve but you don't know what.

                                                                                                        Maybe those of us not destroyed by tubes & still in business since '99 have a lot we do that we don't share. Wanna know why? Because tube owners will implement our strategies. Fuck that
                                                                                                        Right on.

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                                                                                                          • SpicyM
                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                            • Aug 2006
                                                                                                            • 4575
                                                                                                            #327
                                                                                                            Originally posted by dgraves
                                                                                                            I'm not sure why they aren't marketing more aggressively in the porn community and when I first spoke with the owner he didn't mention that he already works with some large sites. One large site has been using it successfully so maybe the strategy is to not let surfers know there is a unique code attached to each video they download. For that reason I won't mention the site on here but it's a very well known site. I spoke with the own of the paysite and he said they are currently pursuing several lawsuits against thieves.
                                                                                                            Xvid Autograph looks great and it sure is a great way to identify and ban the thief on your site.

                                                                                                            But I doubt it would provide sufficient evidence to convict a pirate. Charge maybe. Convict? Not likely.. which is probably the reason why it's not that widely used.

                                                                                                            Just because the illegally uploaded videos carry a name of someone does not mean the same person uploaded the scenes to the file locker. Same goes for IP address - IP address is not a person. Anyone can sit at my computer / laptop / tablet and upload my videos with my name in them.. so the evidence needed would be linking the UPLOADS to a physical person (e.g. having a witness or catching the uploader on a camera etc.).

                                                                                                            BTW, the idea of injecting user names into the footage is not new, I heard about that idea many years ago. Still I like it cause I can easily ban people if I find them uploading the content somewhere else.
                                                                                                            no sig, sorry

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                                                                                                              • celandina
                                                                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                • Jun 2006
                                                                                                                • 11715
                                                                                                                #328
                                                                                                                Just as I have said in Shap's other never ending thread... Make new and interesting content or die..case closed

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                                                                                                                  • SpicyM
                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                    • Aug 2006
                                                                                                                    • 4575
                                                                                                                    #329
                                                                                                                    bump
                                                                                                                    no sig, sorry

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                                                                                                                      • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                        Too old to care
                                                                                                                        • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                        • 52942
                                                                                                                        #330
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Shap
                                                                                                                        With Facebook,Instagram and snapchat even if porn went away today's youth has plenty to jerk off to. Porn isn't only down because of tubes. With social media you get so much more content of people you know and don't know.
                                                                                                                        Do any of those sites have porn movies on them?

                                                                                                                        If not you're wrong.



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                                                                                                                          • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                            Too old to care
                                                                                                                            • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                            • 52942
                                                                                                                            #331
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Bladewire
                                                                                                                            It rings true to me. All the time people waste creating clickbait porn sites to divert traffic to malware, redirects, etc. such a waste
                                                                                                                            That was the highest level of their skills. A market with such a low entry level will always by under threat from idiots who can't do anything but fuck customers.



                                                                                                                            Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                                                                                            PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

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                                                                                                                              • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                Too old to care
                                                                                                                                • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                • 52942
                                                                                                                                #332
                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Google Expert
                                                                                                                                Selling GayTube.com was very dumb. I used to be a constant ad spot buyer. When the new owners took over they immediately jacked up the ad spot prices by 2-3 times. And still i continued to buy. I have no idea how much he sold it for, but the money he had been losing on undervalued ad spots and the potential money lost after the sale is very significant.
                                                                                                                                So you buy traffic. So stop telling people how to do anything but drive traffic. Shows how misleading your stats image was. It didn't contain the cost of buying traffic.

                                                                                                                                Maybe the deal was more about Gay Tube than Twistys, or not on for just Twistys. I see you business sense is low as well.



                                                                                                                                Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                                                                                                PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

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                                                                                                                                  • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                    Too old to care
                                                                                                                                    • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                    • 52942
                                                                                                                                    #333
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by celandina
                                                                                                                                    Just as I have said in Shap's other never ending thread... Make new and interesting content or die..case closed
                                                                                                                                    But you said my idea was crap. Just because you can't do it.

                                                                                                                                    The problem with what you suggest is it will amount to nothing if the content goes onto Tubes. I see lot of great content on Pornhub...case closed.



                                                                                                                                    Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                                                                                                    PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

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                                                                                                                                      • celandina
                                                                                                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                        • Jun 2006
                                                                                                                                        • 11715
                                                                                                                                        #334
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                        But you said my idea was crap. Just because you can't do it.

                                                                                                                                        The problem with what you suggest is it will amount to nothing if the content goes onto Tubes. I see lot of great content on Pornhub...case closed.
                                                                                                                                        I have said your idea was crap in another thread, where I did say that "behind the scenes" porn clips would not work because most crew ( cameramen, sound men,props guys, set decorators,make up girls, costumers, continuity people, drivers, grips, gaffer, lighting guys ...Yada yada) would NOT want to be seen in some porn shoot...

                                                                                                                                        ..elsewhere and including here my mantra is the same... Make good and original content and you will do OK...

                                                                                                                                        Otherwise I do not know what the F. are you talking about

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                                                                                                                                          • Shap
                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                            • May 2001
                                                                                                                                            • 8313
                                                                                                                                            #335
                                                                                                                                            Woohooo Business Thread of the Year award. I'll take that ;)

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                                                                                                                                              • PornDiscounts-R
                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                • Aug 2006
                                                                                                                                                • 1272
                                                                                                                                                #336
                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Shap
                                                                                                                                                Woohooo Business Thread of the Year award. I'll take that ;)
                                                                                                                                                Nicely done, congrats
                                                                                                                                                Email# rasmus(you*know)porndiscounts.com

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                                                                                                                                                  • NewNick
                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                    • Mar 2009
                                                                                                                                                    • 7229
                                                                                                                                                    #337
                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Shap
                                                                                                                                                    Woohooo Business Thread of the Year award. I'll take that ;)
                                                                                                                                                    Congratz.

                                                                                                                                                    They should have a new one - Thread that generates the most Bullshit from Paul Markham.

                                                                                                                                                    You would win that one as well.

                                                                                                                                                    "Americas Hitler" JD Vance.
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                                                                                                                                                      • j3rkules
                                                                                                                                                        VIP
                                                                                                                                                        • Jul 2013
                                                                                                                                                        • 22111
                                                                                                                                                        #338
                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Shap
                                                                                                                                                        Woohooo Business Thread of the Year award. I'll take that ;)
                                                                                                                                                        Well done Shap.


                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                          • JohnnyClips - BANNED FOR LIFE
                                                                                                                                                            Trump!
                                                                                                                                                            • Feb 2011
                                                                                                                                                            • 6442
                                                                                                                                                            #339
                                                                                                                                                            What the fuck does paul markham know?

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