PaySites Have To Change Before It's Too Late. Here Are Some Ideas...

150 posts of nothing changing

So you're agreeing with me.

It doesn't matter where the free porn comes from. It exists in so much abundance selling to 1-10,000 was a possibility we had years ago. I'm talking consumers, not clicks.

Another stupid mindset this industry had of only counting people who clicked a link and on tours.

The only hope recorded porn has it a law for a total ban on free porn. Calling on paying with a credit card as a verification of age. Backed up with enforcement.

Another vague hope crushed?

You're awfully arrogant in the face of evidence that defies your statements. Zishy destroys your argument, so you simply ignore it. Tell me, Paul, are you a member of the Flat Earth Society as well?

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol

Porn is an addiction. if you cant get it from pirate sites you will get it somewhere even if you have to join your favorite sites. Pirate sites post content as soon as it's released cause they know if they don't, people will join sites to get their fix. And people on pirate sites pay for their content. They just pay the file lockers instead of the producers. And of course file lockers pay the pirate sites...

But new content is king IMO. People will always need something new to get off. Most people know whats old and don't want to spank to it. People want something released yesterday or today.

Here are my thoughts.

I believe in my lifetime sex will always sell to someone. Our brand produces content that focuses on amateur female eroticism and female pleasure. I believe this content will always sell. Our job as a company is to evolve the tech and keep up with distribution channels and payment methods. If we do these three things and keep the Yanks brand connected to and in front of the eyeballs of the people that appreciate this type of content we will succeed. Full stop. It is that simple.

We have done this so far by;

#1 Making great content.

#2 - The rest

Having clear value propositions and story as to who we are. Many of the sites that went out of business after the boom had neither. SuperBigTits.com circa 200WhoGivesAFuck ? Join and see super big tits! Yeah great, bye, Hello Pornhub! In the case of Yanks, Pornhub has videos like ours, but not OUR story, this matters.

We don?t try to compete with free. The bottled water vs tap water analogy is sound. Some people will pay for bottled water all the time others won?t. We segmented the market and targeted the people that will buy. We have calls to action that tell those targeted people why they need to be a part of our story.

We analyze our revenue streams and cost structure constantly. What feels right to pay for or paying for something that someone else gets an ROI on might not actually be making you money.

Pushing our third party providers to provide more innovation. We don?t have enough in-house tech so we do this all the time. Good providers welcome this.

We set up our member?s area up for discovery of older content. CMS or (CMSs?) are often too linear. Get people finding gems from the past, this helps retention.

We work with companies that align with our goals and values. Big and/or popular isn?t good or bad, it is just big and/or popular.

I agree with the collaboration that Shap mentioned. Work with companies in your niche. Once again banging the drum for the 3rd party providers to hear, but one clicks are gold. Why the coding for these isn?t more plug and play is beyond me. One clicks for pay-sites should be more numerous. I hope VR brings a greater collaboration between billers, CMS providers and affiliate software companies to make this happen. There aren?t that many combinations of service providers.

Be a complete company not a dot-whatever. We give to charity. We know some of our members and models personally. We have a company culture and history.
Let your social marketing mix highlight all the above. Don?t just dump out GIFS.

Hope that helps.

Paul I am not interested in breaking down my sites for you. LOL But I will say that I do NOT want paysites to fail nor do I pick up the scraps from failed paysites. You really prove, again and again, that you have no clue how any of this works.

I find CONTENT then create brand-new paysites. But why explain? You don't get it and apparently never will.

Adult dating is a fantasy like porn. The users interact with other "members" and browse their amateur-style nude photos and occasional videos, along with integrated live cams. An adult dating site is essentially a girlfriend site with a pseudo chat and messaging system.

I think that's a pretty huge overgeneralization. Other than the obvious tells like 4:3 SD content, most people do not know what is old or not.

Quick scan of the top current networks on Rabbits Reviews:

Reality Kings: 10002 videos
DDF: 15024 videos
Naughty America: 7343 videos
Brazzers: 6553 videos
Team Skeet: 2079 videos
Fame Digital: 19478 videos

I refuse to believe "most people" have 60k+ unique videos catalogued in their head, and are waiting for studios to shoot another 25 scenes this week so they can pay $29.95 for them. That mentality is just the industry doing more of the same and hoping it gets better.

I think the group of porn enthusiasts and collectors you are referring to is a niche group and very much the minority.

There is a valid expression that goes like this: "If it's new to you then it's new."

valid point.

THIS!

You don't need to produce new content to build a product that sells and recurs. It's all about knowing how to market.
There are plenty of guys that buy cheap DVD rights and build tours that convert better than any big brand that produces their own content. They know exactly what creatives to make and what traffic to buy and get crazy conversions and how to schedule updates to get members to recur. For 99% of the people this 'old' dvd content is new. That is the type of customers you want, they also have less experience and are more likely to stay a member and/or buy upsells.

That is the reason we make money -- all cam content is custom made in real time and has the ''potential'' to be unique -- at least to that performer. You just can't do that impromptu with recorded porn. Our content is never going to win a cinematic award of excellence. We are like Burger King -- Have it your way

You always sell people -- people are the buyers.
Sell the people what they want -- but first know what the people want.
Market study or innovative intuition will succeed (sometimes) beating a ''dead horse'' business model just prolongs the agony -- a lot of people here are doing just that ... Tubes have seen there day already -- the incumbents have a foothold.

Define a neglected niche market segment within the Tube incumbents' foothold -- like customers that can (or will) pay

So you won't point us to the sites in 4K and updating.

Now why would that be?

It's an amateur making peanuts with softcore pics. Not to be confused with the porn industry.

In porn, new is something the viewer hasn't seen before. It has nothing to do with the date of release.

Sometimes if you're on a tube or blog where a majority of the videos/posts are from 2011ish and the dates are on the page, it can turn a surfer off to go find a newer one..

Same with crappy quality, but that's not always because of how old it is.

Two words: date manipulation.

And yet all of these sites listed are spending $5-12k a scene/ update often 2-3 times a week to provide new content to their customers ;) I am shooting for 2 of these site this week myself. Why would they do that if it is such a small group?

I know, I've been doing that since forever..

Hhhmmmmm

Those were follow up numbers to someone questioning my theory that constant content production has also hurt the industry as a whole over time.

The fact that the two biggest companies left can afford to do it while no one else can kind of supports that I don't think anyone is arguing that a handful of companies are thriving while "the industry" is declining.

Keep in mind I generally play devils advocate in these threads.

I think it's mindset. The way I've run and would run a paysite is very different to the average pay site owner. I'd pay that for a scene because I'm all about delivering the best product and continually delivering the best and hottest stars at that time. Everybody has different ways of running their biz.

ugh. I know it works. I know it's a good move but I hate that. I'm just too much of an honest dude for it. If I list a production/update date it's going to be the real date or i'll remove the date.

I know the argument that new content is new when you first see it. But truth be told you can show me 20 scenes right now and I can date them even having never seen them. Based on quality, setting, model etc. The biggest thing for me was always the model. I've always been all about shooting the hottest (both literally and figuratively) models at the time because they drive brand awareness and sales.

These are the few who can still afford to. How many uploads that new porn to Tubes?

How many new videos appeared on PH or Xham today?

There's a lot being said about new content. So what is new to the consumer? Something he has never seen before is newish. But not if it's the usual girl on the sofa doing what every other girl on a sofa porn scene's about.

Barry said cam sites sell "custom made" content. Not if the girls are doing the same as the other girls on other sites. That's just another girl doing the same old routine. Especially when they all insist on calling everyone BB or babe. New needs a fresh approach, a different personality that's real. Not the stereotypical porn personality. Sticking girls in badly decorated cubicles makes for cloned settings.

We need to sit down and take a long hard look at what we sell. Because today traffic is easy to get, it's just that the traffic demands more than is being offered. And just shooting the same old tired content in VR, won't cut it. Like HD the better the quality the better that see the mistakes and crap. As Shap says he can date content, I can tell you when I shot a similar scene in the 80s or 90s. Maybe appeared in a similar scene in the 60s.

I hate it too but sometimes you have to deal the hand you are dealt. Say you have a solo girl site and the model disappeared five years ago. But the site makes decent consistent sales and the rebills are strong so you rotate the content, change dates, pretend to be the girl, do what you have to do to keep the thing alive (if it's worth it to you).

But what goes along with that approach is a realization that some members will get pissed off, chargeback, steal your stuff out of revenge, trash you on forums, etc. Not fun or the first choice but often what ends up happening for smaller sites.

This pretty much sums it up. Why would anyone buy porn from a paysite when surfers can get it the same day or worst case the next day from a file locker? It's the original quality video and they may have to wait a little longer for the download but they don't care. These type of people have more time than money.

I use to see my latest content on file lockers a few days after they were posted on my site, now they appear within hours.

Yes, they are still paying for porn but now they have access to thousands of full HD videos
for half the price of the standard paysite price.

It's a business model for the file locker uploaders and even though they make peanuts of each download, it's still money. They get the porn they like and they can also resell it as a file locker affiliate. I think there's a small percentage of paysite members that are doing this but it's still damaging because one member downloads from the paysite, then uploads to the file locker. Other thieves then download that file and re-upload it under their own account so basically thieves are stealing from thieves and compounding the problem. They can all make money off it while getting their own porn fix.

The theft has to stop before anything will improve. I hate hearing people say "adapt or die" because no one says that with any other crime. Can you imagine having your house broken into and all your stuff stolen and the cop says "Hey, adapt or die".

We all know file lockers and tubes aren't going anywhere unless laws are changed so in the mean time paysite owners can use services that minimize the theft by catching the members who steal and share. I've been researching software that embeds a code with a user's info into each video that can't be removed or is at least extremely difficult to remove. I've been working on my own solution but also found a company that looks promising called Xvid AutoGraph

It's a different approach to DRM and instead of punishing the majority who are honest, this approach focuses on catching the minority who steal. Thieves for the most part are lazy and will go for low hanging fruit so if it's too much work to steal content without getting caught they will move on to an easier target.

Your right the only hope for paysites is a ban on free porn. I think it is inevitable that ISP's will be mandated by the FCC to block tube sites without a pay wall since the internet is now regulated by them, I also wouldn't be surprised if google stopped listing them, there has been a lot of media attention regarding kids watching free porn lately. Not to mention the feminists and Republicans have taken on the cause.

The landrush to be the first site to circumvent ISP bans would be incredible. Picturing an offshore-hosted domain-rotation based system like TPB or KAT.

Not that anyone would care but I've been advocating this on GFY for years now. Nothing is perfect but something is better than how it is now.

It's a cat-and-mouse game. But by then maybe we'll have robot drones delivering VR blowjobs connected to Japanese sex dolls. I hope. :D

has that happened with gambling?

He was at Ynot Europe last year. He arbitrated and won the xvid.com domain, xvideos.com better watch out

His technology seems great, I'm not sure why it's never really taken off.

Unfortunately wack a mole is still present with this technology. Knowing the member that downloads and uploads is easy if you're on your game. Remember that it's a criminal organization and they have multiple paying "subscribers" to your site, when you kill one that you find, another takes over.

Once you learn their pattern, you then manipulate what they see/get in an undetectable manner, and they are playing wack a mole trying to get the real goods. In the end it's not worth the effort and they move on to easier fruit to pick.

Shap's an alright chap.

I'm not sure why they aren't marketing more aggressively in the porn community and when I first spoke with the owner he didn't mention that he already works with some large sites. One large site has been using it successfully so maybe the strategy is to not let surfers know there is a unique code attached to each video they download. For that reason I won't mention the site on here but it's a very well known site. I spoke with the own of the paysite and he said they are currently pursuing several lawsuits against thieves.

There are two schools of thought with security. You have a sign on your front lawn letting people know you have a monitored security system to scare potential thieves away or no sign and a shotgun or big dog inside.

I see a lot of people making comments about price points, making better content, better support etc. but that won't fix the main problem. Offering cheaper memberships will delight thieves. They love discounted porn to increase their profit. I experimented with various price points years ago and found that lower price points and even trials attracted cheap people and thieves. I currently have an extremely low chargeback ratio right now but when I offered a trial and lower price that percentage went up. It shocked me to think that someone would take the time to chargeback $2.99 but that happened quite a bit. My member base grew but sales stayed the same so I decided I'd rather have customers who saw the value in my product than deal with cheap complainers and energy vampires.

We all know content is king and making better content should always be ever producer's goal which in turn make thieves more money because the content will be in higher demand.

The paysite model is horribly structured because there's not much incentive for people to stay long periods of time. They join, rip, cancel, wait for a new batch and repeat. It would make more sense for paysites to offer a lower price for stream only and provide the option for members to buy each video if desired. Similar to iTunes rent or buy. This will be a tough sale because the structure has been in place for a long time and customers will get pissed off that they have to buy the videos they want to keep but the lower stream only price might offset that.

I have several Clips4Sale stores that I mainly use to drive traffic to my paysites but on a few occasions I added clips that aren't available on the paysites. They sold very well on the clips store and I never found them on a tube or file locker. Thieves are cheap and won't spend money buying individual clips but legit fans will.

I don't think any business based off theft can last but I'm not holding my breath for a change anytime soon. If the movie and music industry can't change the laws then there's not a lot of hope for adult to drive that change.

Catching thieves using tracking software can be a slow process but thieves have communities where I'm sure they warn others of trouble so the yard sign or shotgun approach might keep them away from your content and move along to something easier. This is a long shot but with some organization, site owners could even form a community or database containing the info on known thieves with a "most wanted list".

The new member hasn't seen the content so to him it's new. He joins, downloads everything and moves on to the next site he likes. After he has consumed the 40-400 scenes he just bought.

While a successful business goes about find a new girl to make a solo site with. The problem with most solo girl sites was the content was all the same, they changed the location and clothes. Because few could afford to shoot decent content. $300 a scene remind you of anything?

Porn's only lifeline is Governments.

It would take a lot of effort by Governments of the West to stop it and personally I don't think they're willing to. The money flow is the biggest target, hit the money and the organisations can't afford anything.

The problem is people are clutching at straws. While there are solutions. 100s millions consume free porn on a regular basis, sorry if the number's wrong. They buy stuff. They just don't buy what so many offer. The reason for that's obvious, the sites are waiting for a buyer to buy.

If 1,000 land on your site from a link. You have a problem. And it's not the traffic. Watch this and think about it as if Shap had posted it.



How many people are turned on by a girl looking two feet to the left of the camera, while typing two feet to the right of the camera, by a girl who has been at work for 4 hours with no one buying and someone doing the typing for her who calls everyone BB?

Or seeing the same scene acted out the same way in the same location over and over agan? Obviously with that one very very few. We know from those who jerk off for free to a 10 minute clip and those who buy.



The traffic is good, it's people jerking off to porn, clicking on an advert tellig them what's in store for them. And many can't convert them because they aren't selling. They're waiting for someone to buy a weak product.

While girls on Social Media are making money with a fraction of the traffic.

Why?

Essentially you sell the same product I sold 30 years ago. Just sharper image definition and often blunter porn definition. While the world has moved on and passed you by. Just selling recorded porn isn't going to cut it. Tubes, Torrents, File Lockers all have material people can jerk off to. Many treat the customer better than paysites and all are superior to most paysites.

Which site has a landing page that's different from those 15 years ago? In that it shows a few samples of the members area? We know the content's the same.

And so far the best solution is 1 click on Tubes or lower the price to a point that will bankrupt the site.

Besides being VR, what else is different from what you're shooting in HD or 4K?

What does porn and the Easter Island Moai have in common?

The answer to their problems was to build more statues, which were causing the problem. The answer to all our problems was to give away more free porn to get more traffic. Because too many were getting off on free porn.

Do you mean on the tech side or the shooting style?

No way! Thought I was the only one up this late on GFY in the U.S. , must be a SoCal thing

I am in Spain.

Seems we are all fucked, time to retire

The shooting style, in my 50 years in porn Tech has changed often. Content rarely does.

VR gives us a lot more possibilities than before. The problem is it has to shot to enhance those capabilities. Shooting the same scene in VR as so many did on 16mm film, won't hack it.

Or time to move to another job, change the way you sell, work more hours doing the same as before.

Retirement costs money, because the bills keep coming in.

As an older man. I love this site, it talks to me. Blue Pill Men | Official website

OK, you young ones might find it gross. But think about how to talk to your clients.

No, the Rapa Nui hid behind their iconic statues and thought their gods would save them -- where are they now? Adapt or die