200 PaySites won't Change Before It's Too Late.

So they built more statues hoping. And destroyed the land that kept them fed.

Online porn thought the solutions was always more traffic, which they got by giving away more porn. Hiding behind their gods of HD, faster downloads, 3D and now VR. Which can all be had for free. I see the similarity flew over your head.

The problem is doing the same and hoping for change won't change anything. We need to talk to the people who don't buy and find out why.

With many sites, it's obvious. There's no real selling going on, just dumping traffic on a site in the hope someone will buy. They rarely do, especially from tubes because Tubes are a superior product to the one being offered. Just a large selection of bland anonymous samples.

No real pre-selling, which should make bloggers ashamed. They concentrate efforts on traffic rather than selling. Text is important to Search Engines. Youtube isn't the #1 entertainment site because people don't like watching videos. Where is the porn equivalent of YT, not tubes giving away parts of the scenes, actual promotional videos? No good complaining YT will kick you off, this industry needs its own version of YT.

Which porn models, film or cams, has their own blogs, twitter accounts, FB, and YT page? Where do they create fans who are converted before they land on the site that wants their money?

A supermarket approach to marketing only works when there are no free weekly food baskets on offer. It won't work when there's more free food on offer than paid for food and it's better quality.

Yet online porn markets the same way it did 18 years ago. It really is time to adapt, what's your next adaptation?

Define "talk to your clients" please.

Nice Bangbros site though :thumbsup

Correctamundo.

Well I am not going to go into my ideas on a public board. I think VR is going to be huge. However it allows you to break away from linear content. This is unique from any other camera or resolution advancement. It is a different world. I guess I would say that it will allow us to take our users deeper into the world of the Yanks girls by expanding on and exploiting some of the different shoots we have already done. Not very clear, sorry. But it will enhance our product and take it WAY next level. :thumbsup

Amazing how negative Paul Markham is, huh? So Paul, we should all just close our sites and go do something else - EVEN THO WE ARE MAKING MONEY (more than you ever did).

No one likes a cranky old bystander shitting on everyone else's efforts (and success). But hey, carry on I guess.

Do the research to see what it means. To those trained in marketing, it's obvious.

A content creator can only take the user deeper into the world of the Yanks girls. If there's depth in the content. Make sure your shooters understand that.

I'm only negative when things are going wrong. I have nothing but admiration for you. Taking old sites and content, bundling them together and selling the package on a rev share deal. Great business model. :thumbsup

I'm not fooled by your claim of having brand new 4K content, it would be easy to spot on your tours. not negative about that either, I'm positive you only have old content. :1orglaugh

I'm also positive that for those who get with the times and update their marketing will last the longest. Also positive that those who don't will suffer.

Browsers don't spend money. FB Twitter is far better than a dating site to browse their amateur-style nude photos and occasional videos.

The best money is earned by people who buy.

Go on FB and try to find some amateur style nudes on a real account..
Also, dating on Twitter doesn't work too well..

Now, if Twitter went to Dating Factory and made a WL to direct people to twitter.com/dating, that would do much better because everyone in there is looking to date, or fuck, or swing, etc. depending on the dating site.
Much better and different than just randomly stalking people on FB/Twitter..

I think this is what annoys people the most about you. You talk a lot but can't answer a simple question. You claim to know it all yet you never back up your "knowledge" with...well actual knowledge.

To me it doesn't really matter, I see a person who made it to it's, I am sure nothing to brag about, pension but still feels the need to login to an online message board preaching about a business (paysites) he was never part off. Or am I wrong and was PMT a huge success? After all you are a marketing guru right.

Carry on ;)

You guys all constantly piss on poor Paul it's this never ending international golden shower :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Porn or sex is not a social media event --
"let's all hold hands and try to spank the monkey" hmmm...

Hmm sounds like work. Think I'll just let compounding returns do it

Shooting scenes with Gary & Natalie?

If sex sells ultimately, why do we over analyze our actions in a time of regression? I never saw threads like this in 2004 when everyone was doing amazing.

shap agreed with you but its not valid.

rule #1 of porn. niche targeted marketing!

surprised you vets missed that those networks are broken into niches.

within a niche its actually pretty small pool of content and with much conent being sd it makes the pool even smaller.

so yes NEW matters.

Back when shap was king shit of turd mountain I approached him at phoneix forum and we we're talking for a bit. I was like man this guy is pompus. Then he proceeded to insult my niche and I was just like it is what it is man. In short I'm still here and as larry david would say, things are "pretty pretty pretty good." The moral of the story is hearing something disparging from a pompus canadian made me say to myself, self? Are you going to let a pompus canadian take the wind from your sails? So I ordered a tray of freedom fries and did some bald eagle calls and I've been motivated since. That was a decade ago. 100 porn years
Duke

Shap is Canadian?
Explains everything. :D

Thought he had canadian citizenship or something but lived someplace temperate

Isn't there a thread with hot girls on FB somewhere of GFY?

Dating is about meeting people. Not browsing pics with no intention of meeting people.

I'm not here to teach you how to market. You don't like me and show it. If someone who shows me respect asks, I will tell them in private. Now you can :321GFY

You work, I play. That's because of 50 years selling my wares.

So long as they can't come up with workable solutions to the situations. That's all they have to offer.

Look at the sum total of the suggestions of how we change paysites. 1 click on Tubes and cut prices. The same old ideas that didn't work the first time or need Tubes to help them.

It's not that I don't like you, I just dont like your constant rambling about things you have no clue about or experience in :2 cents:

I work yes, I am also half your age and don't have a wife and government supporting me. WHen it is my time to play I hope it won't be on a message board though ;)

If you're facing retirement and have a pension fund built up great. If you're in your 30s to 40s. You might find compound returns dwindle.

In 1998 I saw online adding to my income and got involved, 2000 I saw it eventually dominating my income and got very involved. 2008 I saw it start to nose dive and started to get out. Thankfully had 50 years of marketing and selling to live off for the rest of my days.

Because in 2004 people were only losing 10 sales for every 1. Today they lose 100s for every 1. The numbers are to illustrate the difference in lost earnings.

#1 "marketing" strategy then was to get as many people looking at free porn as possible and hope someone liked it enough to click a link. To a tour that converted less than 1%.

Fast forward to today. The only change is the ratio who like what they have to pay for rather than stick with the free option.

And people who don't like me, want me to teach them how to sell more. :1orglaugh

All marketing should be targeted.

What is NEW?

I understand the supply and demand part of it, and as well as the history of free porn, however my question is more geared towards the community itself. Why didn't porn come to an agreement early on, no more than 6 pictures per gallery, no more than 2 minutes for video? etc. I would think an industry on the verge of trouble would come together and work on a way to a solid long term revenue stream without eating each other alive.

Its business. There is always going to be people that use your handcuffed rules to make their own sites and business grow. Impossible to form an alliance of rules that everyone follows.

Sad to see another good thread here on GFY shit the bed. :(

Paul I think a lot of the issue is you worked 50 years and now are retired and spend your time gardening and living off a pension (sorry not really sure what that is... Like an IRA?). Which is super unimpressive. That's like just get a normal job and work impressive. Heck you even live in a cheaper country. Just tossing that in there since people are giving shap grief about living somewhere else.

So you claim to have been in porn's glory days but it sure seems like a lot of people in this thread have gotten a lot further in a whole hell of a lot less time. Yet you preach about the current doom and gloom yet people still killing it. A lot more ways to monetize, leverage technology etc to appeal to an ever widening sea of people

Signed "guy who started running paysites 3 years ago"

They never saw the eventual effect of free porn. Most denied it had any detrimental effect. They claimed the losses were countered by the extra traffic online. Forgetting that offline sales were falling as online grew. They spoke about new countries having access to porn as if porn was only consumed in the US and Europe.

The problem was they were getting a taste of the wealth offline porn has enjoyed for decades. Most even quoted the published accounts of offline porn production companies v online retail companies as an indication of how wealthy online was.

Ultimately they never saw B/W and hosting drop to the price it is. That was the valve that controlled how much could be given away. Tubes, Piracy, File lockers, ambushed them. And some even embraced Tubes as a means of promotion.

Point taken JLP. :thumbsup

Who here is killing it with paysites? I saw where the traffic was coming from during the online boom days, knew it was finite, knew that if people keep escalating what they give away they will destroy the need to buy. And many would fall away. Was I wrong?

This thread is about coming up with new ideas about how paysites should adapt. When I offer suggestions, others offer nothing but abuse.

We need to change the content. Tubes have killed the market for the quick jerk off fans, which is where we made so much money before. Now we have to offer the porn and something extra. It will have nothing to do with webmastering, the price, 1 click whatever. Changes will be rooted in the content and real marketing. It's up to guys like you, who create the product, to change paysites.

Absolutely. We wouldn't be here today if they didn't. :thumbsup

Nope, I have no idea who they are. Curious though.

:thumbsup

Tubes have stolen the clients who just wanted to jerk off to porn and then get on with their lives. That was a huge chunk of our market, in offline porn, it was the majority.

So sites need to offer more than a 20-30 minute sex scene. They have to sell the girl as a person they need to see more of. It's no longer enough to hope the surfer falls in love with her. Offer more about her, why she does porn, what she gets out of it, her private, sexual, life. Likes etc. And it has to mean something to the viewer, a bland profile page won't cut it.

Gary & Natalie have, from what I see, a very public life. That sells them. People want to feel involved in what they do. Adopt that approach to all models and the customers will build faster than shooting a 20 scenes of a girl who can't speak English, so never speaks, doing the same thing every other girl does and can be seen for free on PH.

She has to talk to customers, in a way they can empathise with her in some way more than getting a hard on because she look cute. Content has to releate to customers in away they feel talks (relates) to them.

This is basic marketing.

No one buys a product because of the product. They buy it for what it does for them. And if all you're selling is a jerk off. Tubes give them away for free.

VR is a great tool for bringing the customer into a scene, if its the same 2 dimensional HD scene in VR. It won't work as well as her drawing him into her world. This is alldown to the shooter and their relationship with the model, they work as one to bring more depth to the porn experience.

Also don't give it away for free on Tubes. What's the point of that? Sell it by getting the traffic to places that sell the site, rather than satisfy the surfer.

Who is the OP kidding??

Only porn webmasters are self deluded enough to think that they re shape the way they sell something that is already free to the public.

PORN = FREE. DIDN'T YOU GET THE MEMO?

No matter how you dish it up, label it, discount it, raise the price on it, display it, it's still going to be a product that IS ALREADY FREE.

WHAT KIND OF A COMPLETE IDIOT TRIES TO SELL SOMETHING ONLINE, THAT IS FREE TO GET ONLINE??

You can get the best, nastiest, high quality porn, online, 24 hours a day. The cost? FREE.

So how much are you charging for it? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

Evian.

Poland Springs.

Deer Park

Amazon (where you can buy these products online - OR you can turn on your faucet inside your house and get water for FREE. I wonder how many cases of bottled water Amazon sells daily...)

OK water isn't 'free' online but still....:)

ah ok, that make sense. A bit out of our niche, lol.

You really need to focus on the small studios still successful despite all the negatives. If you don't know what we do then perhaps that's best for the industry.

We get the negatives, you're drilling them into people's heads in this thread over and over and over again. Very depressing for those of us still making great money, almost convinced me I'm not doing well, or things are doomed to fail no matter what, scary.

Free online or not the analogy is sound. If I was single and not in this business I would pay for porn. Why? Because I get sick of seeing the same videos of the niches I like over and over and over again on the tubes. It is a convenience and a quality cost. The Green Lantern up there doesn't get it because his allowance doesn't buy him luxury.

Exactly :thumbs up

I'll also add that my paysites don't do redirects, popups, popunders, spam, banners, etc. We don't ask you to disable adblocker, and when you do, send you to a fake virus site that makes you close your browser. :1orglaugh

Tubes have taught their surfers that they cannot be trusted, let alone with a surfers credit card number :2 cents:

My surfers know they can trust me, stay with me for years on average, and believe me when, in the odd post, or note in an email, I tell them of a great new site to join (usually one of my own)

LOL Exactly. Before I was in this biz I DID pay for porn and would do so again. You run a great Program BTW. :thumbsup


You make excellent points. It's funny because doing what I do I am so immune to pop-ups, ads, all the annoying things tubes (and other sites) do to GRAB YOUR ATTENTION (and money). But I can understand the sentiment because when I go to mainstream blogs and sites I get bombarded with pop-ups, ads, re-directs, etc. South Park did a great episode about being caught in the pop-up circle jerk. So it must be annoying to the average porn surfer, too.

I'm negative about those who think what'as failing, will work. I'm positive that those who adapt to the demands of customers will succeed.

LovinNothin is right in that selling a jerk off is gone. Selling a relationship is still alive and kicking.

Micro niche sites will have to keep producing to keep members. In mainstream porn they don't have that situation, so to keep selling they have to change what they sell. The 15-minute jerk off market is gone.

When I was in the business I still bought porn. To see what others were doing and how to adapt my styles.

Agree with you on this. We've lost $100s of millions by annoying customers. Which is why so many congregated on The Hun, Pornhub level free sites and never clicked a link. Or is that to negative or me? :1orglaugh

Bingo! Nothing will change until this does...

It rings true to me. All the time people waste creating clickbait porn sites to divert traffic to malware, redirects, etc. such a waste

He is correct, the adult industry's time and money would best be spent fighting the tube sites, it would make porn profitable again and protect porn from the extreme groups who want to ban all porn outright. Unless you own a tube site your a fool for defending them.

Legal tubes work great for converting traffic, for me at least. Why illegal tubes don't go legal, sign up for every affiliate program the content belongs to, and switch out the bids for promo vids, is beyond me. A lot less hassle than wackamole.

250 paysite changes!