Right? Fuck the cable companies. Everyone cuts the cord so they increase internet prices to compensate :321GFY

Say something that makes sense.

I pay all this money for people who do illegal downloads.

:helpme

Are these new sites from new companies or companies repackaging the same old stuff on a new domain?

Are these sites you paid for the content to be shot, bought it outright or doing revshare deals with the producers?

So long as the sites are similar niche/style this can work. The problem is sharing the money out.

Who cares? Ice to an eskimo.

Who cares? Ice to an eskimo.

50/50 is very difficult math indeed.

:GFYBand

Dude needs to get to 50k posts, cut him some slack.

Yeah but even at his pace it will take years. That's a lot of slack. LOL :)

I have a question for any program owners out there that are still running paysites. Is anyone running a live girl up front on the website during peak hours ?

Like a customer service rep or support staff to talk up the benefits of the site ?

I login to mainstream sites and a lot of the time a support chat window pops up and asks if I need someone to help me, I always wondered if that would work on an adult site by having a girl sitting there on a cam type interface where she can communicate with individuals by they can't see what everyone else is saying. So 1 video feed for everyone, but individual text boxes.

If anyone knows of a setup like this, pop a link here, or email me. I'd like to see how they have it setup and check with them on how its working for them :)


Thanks!

I think the industry does a great job at identifying customers. Most want it for free and we give it to them. Those who do pay want to download as many scenes as possible at the best speed possible. So instead of paying monthly to see movies they can download a year's supply for $30.

Yes, they are willing to pay more, they used to, we made paying an unnecessary chore and even a risk. Do you see drug dealers giving it away for free when they have the addicts hooked?

Who cares? The answers shoot down your ascertain that new paysites are opening. Concerning your sites, if you're doing rev share you have very little investment to recoup. 50/50 is OK for those with two sites, how does it work with 10 sites sharing the same customer and what if one has a lot more content and sales?

I can see how your business model works with companies that have given up producing. Those who have to recoup the cost of production can't possibly make it work.

Anyone here want to maintain my girls websites on their program?
I can send traffic 2.. I just don't wanna deal with the techy shit

Just like the delivery of many products & services have changed with the advancement of technology, so has the service of delivering porn...

I'm confident there aren't message boards out there with people arguing over how to sell more fax machines or cassette tapes. :winkwink:



Porn still sells! :)



It's the delivery format that is changing.

People want their videos delivered via a streaming service with tons of selection at a low price point, that's why Blockbuster is out of business and Netflix & Pornhub are so popular.


When you spend time building your business, you are making an investment in the future of porn.:2 cents:


The question is: which porn delivery format do you want to invest in?

Which means, which delivery format will bring you a higher rate of return going forward?

I've decided for various reasons, that I prefer to invest my time promoting live personalized porn (live cams) rather than promoting recorded porn videos via the paysite format.

I don't want to end up like Blockbuster :thumbsup

Who are the girls?

Hmmm very interesting thought here. Something that I agree with. I can afford $29 for netflix but I would cancel it in a heartbeat at that price. I'd probably cancel it at $19.99. Times have changed. Our perception of what we should get for our money has changed as well. Maybe it's time to re-price things but without becoming a discount depot.

This could be done with our XLSTREAMER with a FMS (flash media server) in Flash and HLS rebroadcast (a native mobile app)
Or, with WebRTC and a STUN and/or TURN server as required -- for PC or mobile 1:1, cam2cam for now.
We can do this but are not licensing our platforms at the current time.

This may be available, TBD, on our new .cam domains

What would this video/voice service on your website be worth to you?

It's been tried many times. $9.99 memberships, etc. Failed every time. Porn is an impulse buy. So you might get a little more joins, but you end up making less bc of the low sign-up fee.

I do see that discounts in porn are quite popular nowadays...

Yes but would you pay $29.95 if it included Netflix, Hulu and Roku altogether?

Exactly. The problem with lowering your pricing is what you have to make up in volume is unattainable for most sites. A Pornhub (or Netflix) can do it because they have millions of people hitting their site daily. Even larger paysites cannot keep this price point for long so they only offer it for a short time.

Deal sites, or discounts, will always be popular to a segment of the buying public but it should never be "the norm". Again, if you cut prices you have to double-triple volume in order for it to be a good move. CAN you double or triple your traffic overnight? Doubtful.

No, better to get that $120 (average) per customer, either in one $99.95 pop or a join + 2-3 rebills.

I saw this coming over 15 years ago when we started to see way too much free content on the web.
Told everyone about it and no one gave a f...about it.

I live in Trant

I am working on my new paysite currently. It seems obvious to me that you need to to have great content no one else has.

My website will 100% be based on quality content and quality girls. Hardcore but beautifully lit and shot. We will use new cinematic tools to get more in line with the quality that young viewers expect from mainstream. We will take cues from the video game industry.

It will also have a substantial community that will include chat areas, tips, and one on one with the models. Also an extensive behind the scenes - you are there area. We will create a hierarchy of members too so the longer they stay the more "power" they will have within the community.

The website will have a substantial user driven free side that with keep the outsiders informed on what they get if they pay. Special sets will only available for a limited time so if you quit to rejoin later you will miss them. Everything will be exclusive. We will use the tubes to our advantage.

Prices will be low enough to encourage casual re-billing and we will reward long term memberships with bonuses. We will also work to create a strong Brand and will include Merch and events.

That's all I am willing to reveal now :) :2 cents:

Fake bitch one; rip off cunt two; nonexistent hoe three; invisible slut four;
plus any others he can dream up before stealing your money.

:2 cents:

No:disgust

I agree with. But again it isn't about just lowering price but changing the idea behind how you run it. Maybe you lower the price for X amount of content and then aim to make your money on whales who will pay big for more.

Yes agreed. For my new site I plan to have 3 tiers of pricing so those that don't mind the $$ can pay on the internal up-sell.

Nice! Good luck with it :) Sounds exciting.

I'll promote you :thumbsup

This is the same BS we heard about the value of content from tube people in the beginning, now you're trying to drive down site membership fees industrywide for people making great money, or newbies who don't know any better. There is a reason the movie theatre is so expensive, enjoyable & relevant with revenue increasing last year by 7.4%.

Guys like me still in the game know what we're doing and people pay because we know how to create the perfect chemistry of a number of factors that you guys have yet to unlock and we have decades old followings and the golden word of mouth.

The slash and burn mindset towards content, surfers & members is why tubes & so many sites fail.

After all these years you guys still don't get it and don't listen to, or work with, people who do evidently or things would be different for you.

17 years of never banging cards, never redirecting, never advertising or putting banners up, never selling their emails, etc. Nobody's perfect, especially me, but I honor my content and my members. I'm not angry at anyone as I post this only feeling passionate, and always open to working with people and new ideas, as you know Snap.

Pornhub can do it because zero content cost. Someone else worked and paid to find a model,paid to recruit them, paid for haircuts/makeup, paid for scheduling, paid for a location, paid for the models, paid for the video to be edited, paid for it to be uploaded, etc. One download by a fake member and it's on certain tubes for free and when that happens a huge amount of work gets 90% less of what your normally make.

Netflix, Roku etc make money on the back end in ways adult will never be permitted to, that's why membership is so cheap, though prices are going up.

People pay $60 for 3 months and $40 for 30 day non recurring, and more on some sites, still, and they're doing great.

So it's ONLY about the price point, regardless of the value? Again, only the Bros can play at that game, for anyone else it's a road to going out of business. Maybe that's your point? Eliminate all paysites?

Exactly right. I didn't factor in the cost of their content (or lack thereof) but instead focused on their massive traffic. But your points are spot on.

Everyone wants to make the pie smaller thinking they will sell 10x the pies that way. Doesn't work that way, sorry (or only does for the Wal-Marts of the world).

Let people buy the video/photo set etc. they want? Without been subject to recurring membership

And the Walmarts of the world pay no taxes, are government subsidized, etc.

Legitimate, established online porn Wal-Mart like sites (non stolen content) with daily updates are running a crazy rat race with huge turnover & unnecessary expenses.

When I talk to these guys and we share stories I'm blown away! Even though they have daily updates, expenses are going up and they can't raise their prices past rock bottom because of perceived value and their production resources are tapped making diversification difficult. They've tried A/B price increase testing and they lose too high a percentage of members every time. The organized crime theft of their content is out of control, which greatly affects their tight profit margins too.

The same thing happened to the DVD market. Prices remained stagnant while costs and piracy went up making the cost of making them not profitable. It actually amazes me anyone is still shooting content these days (the ones not subsidized by the big tubes).

I've read the only way to succeed at raising prices is to have a long term strategy. meaning you will lose Members at first but they will come back in time. That never worked for me. I keep things where they are and just try to add value. For those shooting content weekly I don't know how they do it anymore. And yet new paysites open all the time. Makes you wonder. LOL

The DVD market was completely different they had a huge cost of entry barrier in the tens of thousands. After starting my first site I wanted to supplement with DVD income and laughed when they quoted me $12k as the lowest entry point for one DVD release. All the middlemen became so greedy they priced themselves, and the platform, almost out of existence. Then prices went down but it was too late.

One method to raising prices is to start a new site, themed with a modern designed and providing new content in your best niche then promote it with your member base. Dressing up an old site gives current users a different perception then going to a fresh new modern entity.

Same here. I cannot imagine investing in exclusive content during this era, especially when updating several times per week.

Porn was an impulse buy. It's now an impulse people consume because we made it that way.

The problem is there were very few real marketing people who understood the product, its uses, and the consumer. There were webmasters talking bollox and how to give away more free porn than the next man. They compared bottled water to porn and now Netflix to porn. Neither compares, especially Netflix.

In effect, you were all losing over 100% of your possible sales the day you started to give away porn on TGPs. As time passed the percentile grew. Today it's over 10,000% lost to every sale. You threw out the baby with the bath water and now crying over spilt milk

But you did achieve your real goal, you now have more people looking at porn than ever was possible in the days when it made loads of money.

You were not alone and they laughed at us.

I'm the boy who cried wolf. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

That will kill more sales than it creates. Because unless you can get clips down to a few minutes and make them outstanding. They will be long enough to jerk off to or too short and people will jerk off to something else.

Porn is for 99.99% of us a 15-minute experience, which is why the length of a porn scene is usually 20 minutes. Netflix, bottled water, etc, lasts for hours and can be enjoyed by the family.

Study the length a surfer stays on a Tube site video to see how it's consumed. Even girls on Webcam have problems holding the customers online. This was also the problem back in the days of phone line sex.

Sell the girls as people who also do live or recorded sex. The concept of Selling Sex alone is nearly over. As stats on Tubes prove.

i lik in taint

And yet today we learn one of the best producers is going to create great content and give it to Tube sites. :upsidedow

By 2020 there will be so little left of the porn business few here today will still be here.

Because we had an industry dominated by the concept of giving away free porn. I used the past tense as it will be the most appropriate.

How much do you invest in content production?

That was the song they sang back in the day of losing 99% of potential sales. They assumed because they had 1,000s getting off on free porn and 100s buying it was all good. I told them the signups were coming from offline porn and when that well ran dry they would see the real picture.

They laughed at me then, they're not laughing now.

We didn't try time machine technology. We could go back in time and disable people who invented tubes?

We disagree. 2020 is only 4 years away. Also it was organized crime theft from paysites posting to illegal tubes hosted in DMCA noncompliant countries that brought the industry down. When content producers started pulling back on providing longer & longer clips to tubes, new paysite updates were all of a sudden mysteriously stolen and posted on the tubes, that's when things came apart for the industry.

Things change but human instincts & behavors have fairly well established components & patterns. The hunting/gathering component of sexuality is what tubes play on, luckily most are retarded and stop there.

The owners of tubes also have a slash/burn mentality, for the most part, which isn't sustainable for a renewable content driven, members based profit model.

We'll see if the smarter stronger tubes will be successful at creating their own content in a way that's sustainable and release it in a way that's profitable. I'd work with them to assist if it was Pornhub, or a handful of others, the rest a dying out.

EDIT: Funny the tittle of this thread actually pertains to tubes, not paysites. Tubes Have To Change Before It's Too Late

Here's what I was hoping and it's similar to MyPorn but MyPorn is going to have a helluva time building anywhere near the traffic the big tubes have built up with user uploaded infringing content.

The big tubes should have one-click processing, if a viewer wants to buy the full scene in the highest quality format the producer makes available he pays $3.99 or whatever price the producer chooses. If the viewer is a big fan of the producer's work he can pay a monthly recurring fee to get all updates, $9.99/14.99/19.99 whatever the producer chooses - producer gets 50% and paid out by the tube site.

Producer can still have his own paysite - cost of a paysite is not much but the impulse buying with just one click while on the tube site will produce more sales.

as long as pirated content is so easy to get there is no reason for 99% of porn viewers to ever sign up to a paysite.

i guess you can do something fancy and maybe appeal to another 4% but generally porn is not a necessity for most people.

i've downoloaded "pirated" porn since 1999 and its always getting easier.

cams used to be something you had to pay for before myfreecams.

i saw the writing on the wall back in 2004 and decided to mostly get out of trying to sell porn.

[QUOTE=Bladewire;21020641]We disagree. 2020 is only 4 years away.

I said. And we can wait and see who is right.

Knowing who spilt the milk, won't make people's incomes change.

For most who were here in 2008 it's over they have moved on, moving on, or planning how to move on. We have and as I knew the bad times were coming, we're fine. For those who are planning a long career in porn, I have a bridge to sell you.

For content producers there are far easier ways to make a living, assuming they have skills. Affiliates again those with real skills can move on, the rest are going to find life tough.

Online porn had 12 years maximum for most people in the business. Then getting it for free became a better option than paying for it. Once that line was crossed, it was downhill from there.

All this talk of starting again with something new makes me smile. Try mainstream with something that's worth consuming.

:thumbsup

So much talk about tube sites. Tube sites aren't the problem, pirate sites are. From pirate sites i can download an entire membership area, with full size uncompressed videos. Why would I want shitty tube site videos when I can get the real deal from pirate sites :1orglaugh Sites like KK and VG offer content as soon as it's released too.

Paul you have been moaning about free porn and how no one can make money anymore ever since I joined this board in 2009. Yet as I have stated over and over, I make money and have done so ever since 2009 while YOU sit there and predict doom and gloom for years now.

All this proves to me is you are an old man who does not know how to sell porn in 2016. Or 2009. Or 2002. No offense but it is extremely easy to sit on the sidelines, having been out of the game for over a decade, and piss on other's efforts (and success). I am sorry Paul but I do not listen to your observations on this subject because they come across as excuses for your own failure, nothing more.

I have never said no one can make money. In fact, recently I have said Tubes do make money along with the big companies.

you make money because you don't pay for the content. You do a rev share deal with those who now find the income no longer supports producing new content. Or are you saying your great income does support you paying for new content?

If you had joined in 2000 I was warning people that a race to see who could give away the most content, would end badly.

I never failed, I retired on the income I made from 3 decades of selling porn. You would know the reasons why I retired if you were here earlier.

Price point is key. I've become used to Netflix at <$10 a month. That price point is a no brainer for me and I don't mind going 2 or 3 months without using it (as I just did these past 3 months). Once it goes over $10 (esp towards $19) I'd have to be using it regularly for me to justify keeping it. As a family we don't use it enough so I'd cancel.

Apps are the same. I rarely will pay for an app. I have to be super motivated and interested in the app or it's a lego kids game that I know my boys will love. Besides that I'm not keen on spending $$ for an app. Why? Because the app environment has taught me what is worth spending and what isn't. There are apps that I used to buy as software and pay $50, $100 or $200 for. But in the app environment they are now worth <10 and usually <5.

Music I'll buy from itunes store without every researching an alternative. It's just how I buy music.

I never buy movies.

Tv Shows I'll research when they'll be on cable. If I really can't get it within let's say a month I'll then go to itunes and buy it. If Itunes and Amazon do a geo block and try to stop me from seeing it for 6 months time (ie like they did with Ballers) then fuck them I'll download illegally. If I'm buying on itunes to watch on apple tv i'll buy HD version but if I'm going to watch on my ipad i'll buy SD version.

Just to give you insight into my buying decisions.

That's interesting because I've never felt pirate sites were a threat. I know they are huge but I've often felt they cater to a different group of users. I may be naive and completely wrong but my gut just always told me pirate site users were never going to be members.

We actually had a situation for a while where the pirate sites actually listed our updates BEFORE us. That was not good.

I know some people have questioned my reasons for bringing up a thread/topic like this. My main reason is a brainstorm session really. There is definitely still money to be made. Just running things as they've always been run isn't the way.

Your idea is great. There is definitely something in that. There has to be some sort of advancement in the delivering of content (maybe not necessarily always on your own website) and the billing of content (different price points, different areas you can buy it again not only on your website).