What if someone gets a job for the big tubes, then goes rogue?...... :winkwink:

50 tube ideas

Hard to not agree with this. Also, its not just layout/design/new marketing strategies. If your talking FREE sites, the MAIN problem is traffic period. Cant rely on google/organic traffic. Trading traffic has started to become less and less because of the quality/malware from ads etc. Worst part is the pop up blockers. No point to do free sites when 30-40% of your hard earned traffic is blocking your source of income.

No future change to this in sight. Yes, some people have figured ways around the pop up blockers but the amount of edits a webmaster has to do to make the code work consistently is another problem. WHAT HAS NOT BEEN SEEN OR DONE AT THIS POINT? That includes content shooting. I mean seriously. The past 5-7 years it seems the ideas/marketing strategies have stalled. I come from a very successful network of sites before I sold them and there is not much left unless you are well established and not many companies are anymore.

Only time will tell If a different model catches fire BUT everyones abandoning the sites that made them money which are tgps/mgps/trading sites etc with the thought that tubes is wheres its at because of the success of some tubes. If you look at the Tube model as a whole, there is NOT many successful tube sites at all. Costs are too much to compete with that model with little reward. As for the content/paysite problem solver, I have no idea. Something re-inventive would have to be seriously done to save the pay model for content now that everything is free and everything has been done. Technology seems to be the only future idea that could help with new ideas/content shooting. Is it VR? Is it 4k/5k/6k? Who knows. As of now, nothing new is on the horizon besides VR. If that isnt the problem solver, then adult is gonna keep being in a stalled state imo. You cant rely on SEO/organic traffic. It fails everytime. New update happens and boom its all gone. Just too unreliable to focus any money/time on it.

YES! Someone who "gets it". :)

The only future I see is a bifurcated market, meaning there will be two types of people: those who want free and those who want convenient/better quality. I keep coming back to the water example because it is spot on. Those who want a quick drink will go to their faucet or water fountain. Done. Those concerned with health issues, convenience, a way to calculate their water intake, etc will spend $2 to buy a bottle of water. That's it folks.

So in the end it's marketing and nothing more. Can you sell snow to an eskimo? If yes then you will be just fine. if not, try something else with your life.

Yeah, higher quality niche water exists, but it makes it hard to sell it at a shop when the whole way there and also while you're in line, there are free water fountains lined up on either side of the sidewalk and sometimes in the shop. When you're not thirsty anymore, you'll go home without buying..... :(


(Which is another good reason to promote a dating WL, even cams, but dating is better....) :upsidedow

Really? I guess you cannot sell ice to eskimos so that's why you went into dating. :)

I went to the store yesterday to buy a case of water because it was on sale. It was ninety degrees outside. On the way into the store I passed two (free) water fountains. Did I stop and drink from them? No - I bought the case of water, took one out, opened it and drank it. And when I got home, instead of turning on my faucet (which has a water filter on it) I put some bottles of water in the fridge. Later I opened one and drank it, never even went near my faucet.

So who won? Poland-fucking-Springs, that's who. I want to be Poland Springs, not the guy giving up and selling pizzas instead.

Nah, that's just my job now, I still know how to sell paysite memberships. But dating is still better.. :winkwink:

I just wanted to argue about water, but still, you buy a case of water to refrigerate and enjoy later. So maybe we should be working on selling better, colder porn to enjoy later and not just now and warm like on the tubes?.. :upsidedow

You also have the advantage of being the actual brand like Evian, instead of being the stores re-selling it on commission AND in most cases paying for more overhead like shipping.. :winkwink:

But seriously, paysites make lots of sales, especially on tubes and is why tubes sign up for the program that you have and make the same, sometimes more, as a regular affiliate with the banners and links on the video pages.
They pay affiliates $1.5-$3ishCPM to bring in traffic, too..
So, the only way to stop tubes is for every company and program to pull out, but that won't happen, because traffic still is and always will be king.. :upsidedow

Too bad :2 cents:

Well the whole idea of "stopping tubes" should be abondoned. What we need is a more balanced partnership WITH the tubes (something I have been advocating ever since tubes came along).

I'm guessing the reason nobody has offered 'any reasonable, practical ideas or solutions as to how things will be different' is because most reasonable, practical people know how it's damn near impossible to in good faith predict such a thing. It's usually not until after a lot of trial and error a lot of risk and a lot failure that a new technology a new model, or some other future innovation can be truly considered as 'disruptive'. The only reasonable, practical prediction one can make with any type of certainty whatsoever is that there will be change. From what I can tell that's exactly what both Shap and Roald have done. How is that so difficult to understand?

But change into WHAT? Just saying 'change will happen' doesn't make you an Einstein. LOL Duh, things will change but nobody knows how. Brilliant.

So until then it's business as usual folks. Ciao.

Apparently you're not very familiar with Einstein's way of thinking because if you were you'd know that he'd tell you the exact same thing. Change will happen. That is all we know. You're not looking for Einstein, you're looking for a false prophet to walk through the door and tell you exactly what you want to hear about the future even if it has no bearing in truth. You're looking for Al Sharpton. Have luck. And for the love of god don't even think about getting pissy with me again. I'm trying hard to be nice here but you're making it really difficult

Do you have anger issues? Seriously, because no one is being pissy with you or trying to rile you up here. :error

I am not looking for a Prophet. But I am not the one saying 'things gotta change!" and then not offering any ideas. LOL WILL things change? Sure. But look at paysites from fifteen years ago. What's the difference? Better design, clearer images, HD...but they're still pics and vids to whack off to. I'M saying this will never change, regardless of technology and I have 15+ years as my proof. But those saying paysites will die if they don't change have ZERO 'proof' this will happen other than the natural decline when 'free' is introduced into a market.

People still (and always will) pay for porn. This is an ancient argument. WHERE they spend their money is the only real argument left.

One last comment:

The days of thinking "I'll start a porn site and make millions!" are long over. Sadly, they ended just when I was starting in this business. But the days of "I'll start a porn site and make a nice middle-class income!" are alive and well and here right now.

People need to ratchet down their expectations when it comes to making $$$ in adult. Unless you are willing to invest a lot of cash (and some are) and stay in the Game long enough to build a brand the best most can hope for is a solid six figure income, which is way better than selling shoes 9-5. If you make 100K you are in the top 5% of earners. Not bad for being a smut peddler and working in your underwear at home. But to make the Bro bucks you gotta spend like a Bro (or get someone else to). Those are your options. Still a great Industry to be in just not 2004 great, that's all.

Look... this is the problem here...

I wanted to sign up at a paysite but I was thirsty so I decided to go to the store first to buy some water. BUT... at the fountain there was a girl sitting... Short story shorter: I banged her at the fountain and then went to buy my water. When I got home I really wasn't into signing up at the pornsite anymore... Conclusion: If paysites cannot instantly deliver a bottle of water with their memberships... this business is doomed...:2 cents::2 cents::2 cents:

Uhhh, you're the only one who's been pissy with anyone in this thread. Can't say I blame you though as I probably wouldn't be too happy if people who know what they're talking about told me that the crux of my business consisted of 80+ rapidly depreciating assets.

LOL I make more money every year and new paysites are opening every week. So yeah, the end is nigh. :)

This isn't about me, or the future of paysites. It's supposed to be about Shap's Next Big Thing and I hope he does it regardless of what it is. We need Shap's insights and experience in this Industry. :thumbsup

In the 16 years, I've been online paysites have evolved very little. The majority of changes were driven by Server-BW costs and Speed. The other was the quality of cameras. Pay $30 and get 30 days access to recorded porn of a certain niche/style. With the advent of Tubes, that model was doomed.

After 8 years of Tubes, the market is dominated by a few. Breaking their hold on surfers will be hard to impossible. And need a lot of money.

Webcams are going to the free/tips model and girls working independently. Allowing models to bypass the studio model, work from home and even drive their own traffic. The studio has huge costs, model, studio, traffic, site owner.

So where are the opportunities today?

In 1998, there were very few ways to get started without spending a lot of money and risk losing it.

Think of it this way. When the billions of surfers have all jerked off to the millions of free porn movies. Hell will have frozen over.

ROI will kill most paysites. It will become too expensive to shoot decent enough porn to convert enough people to pay for the enterprise. The survivors will be owned by a few large companies.

Why partner when they can own?

:thumbsup

Now what is the future??? And will it be profitable?

The old model is dead. It's little more than pay your money and get a package of recorded porn. 99.99% who buy porn do so to jerk off quick and get on with their lives, that's been constant for all my years in the business. Online changed the delivery method and nothing else.

So the target market is 00.01% who want more than a jerk off with recorded porn. This is a portion of the market who want more than a product that allows them to imagine they're in the scene participating or just watching. They want interaction. Webcams give them that.

Can a pornsite merge the two? Online shoots made to look sexier than they are, live BTS, girls chatting with and to an online audience at pre-arranged times. Forget the $30 model, people will pay the money for the right product, the hard part is getting the product right.

This is being done already.

I wasn't about you until you made it about you. :1orglaugh

Anyway hopefully for your sake you're right. If I'm wrong it will have no effect on my life whatsoever. But if you're wrong you'll be fucked.

Traffic isn't a problem. The problem is coming up with something addictive enough to keep people coming back and staying put. Think of it in terms of a lake and a river.

Tubes go from streams, with little traffic which never stops to Oceans which are the first port of call when someone feels horny. If in 1995 someone was giving away enough porn to satisfy the urge. Sales would have sucked. We didn't so sales were great.

Surfers don't want to have to close a pop-up after watching porn. Because they have no intention of buying from it. I advertised in magazines and the CTR 1-1,000 approx. This was in the days when people expected to pay for porn. If you fuck with surfers, do you expect them to buy more?

So in the end, it's the product. Anyway, portable porn is already with us, my phone has enough space for 10 scenes. Because you can't put porn into a bottle and call it Evian Porn.

People will pay for a better product, how much do 15 minutes cost with a webcam girl?

What's needed is a product good enough to market to an audience that has many free choices, it's willing to pay for the quality. And here you hit a brick wall. Maybe it will be VR, so we can all wait for that and hope it's not another 3D damp squib. Other than that it has to be a better live interactive experience.

Most camsites, for me, are a turnoff. Some dumb girl vaguely interested or bored tapping on a keyboard 3 feet to the left of the camera, reading text on a page 3 feet right of the camera, dressed in cheap lingerie and in a box decorated in the 1990s. OK, I exaggerate a bit. :winkwink:

There are millions of lonely men, single and married, who would love to have a relationship with a girl online. Not even sex, just relationships. The hard part is converting traffic. Girls have to be sold to a surfer before he lands on the site, the girl has to talk, she can read the text on a screen but it has to next to the camera. She has to able to block people and she has to be in a setting that doesn't demean her of her viewers.

Can this be done in/near a City location with a large studio, or with girls working from home? Something that has to be worked out. What's the technical side? Not my field.

The audience is there, you have to build the product and get it right to make money.

Links please.

So basically just what good camgirls do?

Yes. Not those tied to the studio system and earning peanuts.

I'm thinking in a broader way, of a model/system that's a level above what those girls do and more profitable for them or letting girls who don't want to do porn earn money.

i'm not really following it either.....

Let's jump straight to magic join links and be done with it :upsidedow

PornNerd you bring up good points and i think this is a bigger discussion. So I created this thread.
https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...ate-ideas.html

I doubt that you are.

Porn is the same as it was 20 or even 30 years ago. Ever since VCRs came out. Scenes of a sexual nature people can jerk off to. The difference online made was a month's membership instead of a DVD. For $30 a buyer could get 4-6 scenes on a DVD. Online he got 20 to 1,000s of scenes. Many sites allowed members to download 1,000s in a month.

No matter what happens nothing is going to change membership sites while they stick to recorded porn. There's nowhere to go.

Webcams studios skim so much money from the models that most are now going freelance, unless unable to chat with surfers. These sites are so bad they find it hard to convert traffic. And the idea of someone with a lot of money texting via a person translating is far fetched. A person with money can now chat live with a girl one-one. The girl doesn't need affiliates, studios, webcam sites etc.

Is there an opening for something else? A Big Brother type location where surfers can see girls, the girls can talk to the camera like the participants do on BB and go into private chat?

The key is making sure the girls earn more on that site than they would be working for themselves. So no big affiliate programs paying out 30% of what she earns. Not that getting traffic would be hard. The site could sell memberships for a hi-res version.

It will cost some money and has to run 24/7. The problem is making the product good enough to get people to stay and watch it.

The problem with so many here is they have nothing to suggest and shoot down those who try to find alternatives.

Whatever happens the paysite model and studio cams are a dying model. They will decline like the DVD has.

For me personally GFY isn't the place to discuss those specifics publicly.

I talk with other content producers that own sites privately, in person, via chat or on the phone about what we're doing, where things are headed and what patterns/trends we're seeing, etc. Often times the sites you see aren't the only way we make money with our content online.

There are a couple exciting things happening and lots we do to stay in business, grow, and groom the younger generation to keep paying. We are still in business because we communicate & opperate in this manner.

I'm retired and no need to get back to working. So if anyone with the money thinks they can do it, let them.

as for things happening undercover, heard that a lot. Very rarely seen anything inovative. After all, it's just porn scenes in different wrapping paper.

I totally agree and I give input here a lot and want people to learn & be successful.

Times have changed Paul. I am talking about quality traffic here. High CTR. I have been in the traffic realm for over 10 years. Viral successful sites don't need many ads. They can get away with the ad income. Like efukt for example. One post makes the owner a couple grand from sales depending on the sponsor. Talk about amazing viral traffic/bookmarkers. Buying quality traffic has tripled because site owners know how hard it is to come by.

Put it this way, I can count on one hand how many tubes have enough traffic that is worth submitting too. I have tested it all. The rest is trash. Thats not alarming to you? SALES are pretty much dead for most because unless you bought out the competition like mindgeek did, you need to hope and pray your content is something no ones seen or your marketing is stellar. This does NOT include SEO. SEO we know is gold but impossible to rely on. Plenty of good content out there BUT only works if you have the organic traffic.

Quality traffic is very hard to come by now a days that is not organic/seo. You can get crap traffic from brokers all day long but it wont grow your site in any way. No idea why people use brokers unless they are buying to make money with ads/webcams/dating only. What is the point of growing your sites traffic with no income coming in and hoping you make sales? I have plenty friends who tried to rely only on sales for 1 year and they came to reality that they cant make any money that way anymore. These guys have over 200k uniques a day and growing.

Its just different practices. I don't have any problem with clicking on a popunder to close it. The problems I have are the loud obnoxious ads of chicks moaning loud or ads that I cant seem to close once I hit Exit. My point is, everyones practices are different but quality traffic is STILL king and there is not much of it unless your site has viral success.

Shap - sent you an email.


Porn Nerd and Jimmycooper - you guys both have valid and reasonable points so no need to let the counterpoints rub any body the wrong way.

Quality traffic!!!!

There's no such thing. If you throw Quality Traffic at shit, it will become shit traffic. If you throw shit traffic at Quality products it will become Quality traffic.

That's a broad statement, think of it like this. Surfers have to have bought a device to surf on, so they spend money. The problem is getting them to spend on the product you want to offer them. In the porn world consumers had to buy, now they are better off not buying and whatever we do it's moving more and more to the free options.

Tubes have to have traffic that buys to survive. Even at $3 per 1,000 someone has to buy, they just don't buy what you offer. The problem is they are not buying because in their opinion it's a shit product being offered.

The problem is simple. We sell a product that's required for 20 minutes, then it's put away in a draw, or the page is closed, and the user goes back to what they're doing. The exceptions are very small. Even with webcams how many men stay on their for hours jerking off? The "whales" want relationships not a jerk off.

Build a site that's good enough and it will convert that bad traffic you complain about from Tubes. Others have done it. Pornhub, Xhamster and the like cost money to run. They are KINGS in the business because they have turned Quality Traffic into shit traffic by replacing the need to buy.

Where once 9 out of 10 porn consumers bought porn, we now have 1 out of 35,000 buying porn. Because a jerk off is now a free product. And "Quality Traffic" is only created by having something they want to buy. Which is why everyone pinned their future on HD, then 3D and now VR. Same product just praying to big to give away for free.

Agreed! :thumbsup

Hope you eventuallllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy find your unicorn.

I have the content when you are ready!!!

So the other person does all the heavy lifting with all the consequences and responsibilities, and you bring to the table, what?

a "great tube" idea?

How's that worked out for you? Found many takers yet?

This thread started with "Happy 4th of July" greetings from Shap...Maybe Shap...you can end it with " Happy Thanksgiving" ( OK then ,Merry Christmas ;)) obviously NONE of the "tube recyclers", the dating champs with 1 woman for every 1000 men pretending to be women, the VR gurus with all the lights,cables and other various gack in the 9mm lens distorted pictures, the camgirls where most of them cannot be called girls and largely skipping the Viagra and other meds, gambling and the diaper pushers ( hmmmm did I miss anybody??)

Th punchline from me ( and only very few others in this thread) is the same.... " the insane have taken over the porn asylum"....:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Shap maybe its time for you to hit... a beach, casino, a golf course or a classy whorehouse in Prague instead of making sense around here...:thumbsup
...and good luck:2 cents:

So you agree with Shap saying this. And not when I say it. Are you a bro bum kisser?

The future isn't paysites selling paint by numbers porn. The scenes that are just ticking all the boxes of fucking.

Unless a site can introduce the element of personality or the performers it will lose to the 1,000s of other scenes that are no different. Even Gonzo/Reality isn't good enough.

Sites have to work hard at making the consumer fall in love with the actress. Like the new wave of Camgirls who work independently. The consumer wants her and no one else. And she has to be paid for the work she does at a level that she can earn working for herself. Manyvids.com shows how it can be done.

Haha sure am, you ever met Shap?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ReC7bsi9ES4/maxresdefault.jpg

So it's 2017 (almost) and still my tube idea would be accepted industry-wide and might even be a success for all parties involved. But Shap will not invest money in anything so this tells us how serious he is (and isn't) to new ideas and taking action.