Of course you're right, but my answer would be that I am sure those in charge knew this was a likely possibility. Anyone sporting a weapon is going to die though, period, unless they somehow make it clear to the coalition forces that they are friendly.


The country is hungry, sick, oppressed and tired. Those that "play ball" will be helped immensely, while those that continue to try and cause trouble after Saddam is killed will be given nothing until they fall in line. That should buy some time for plans to be implemented.

What always amazes me is N. Americans belief that within all foreign people is the desire to think and do, as the US wants. Look at the facts.

The US?s blind support of Israel. If you miss this point then you really do not understand the situation.
Different religion.
Different culture.
Different personality.
Different country.

What in heavens name made anyone think that these people would welcome the coalition with open arms and want them to stay?

Being ruled by a despotic dictator with a penchant for killing people who oppose him is normal in this area. Most of the Iraqi people respect leaders who are ruthless and authoritarian.

Look at the situation in Afghanistan. Different warring factions all trying to grab some of the power left by the vacuum created by the US. Is the US welcome and being asked to stay? NO.

So what make the US think Iraq is going to be different?

they tried to uprise and the Fedayeen are shooting them.

Of course know one will probably agree with me, but politically speaking, I belive Carl Rove and Bush no that a war that will last until election time or close will be good for him politically.

I can't seem to remember a president that lost re-election when a war was going on????

I know Johnson just didn't run again.

gotta say, I'm in complete agreement with Labret here.
with the exception that I don't think I'd say none of them are supportive of us.... (yet)

yeah, that's a given... we just don't change prez's when the shit is hitting the fan unless we have to. But I wouldn;t go as far to say that a prez would start an 80 billion dollar war for re-election purposes.

Sure part of this war is about the freedom for the iraq ppl, but really most of it is about

1. Trying to get some kind of democratic country in the middle east, hawks like Perl and wofowitz belive this can happen.

2. economic - oil security for the usa / world

3. payback for daddy bush, belive it or not, it's there.

and other various reasons

'The Hussein government told us there's uranium in the tomatoes, and then took our crops," said Muhsen Salim, 24, a farmer.'

uranium?

hahah

And even if they did join up and fight, they will want something in return. Much the same way the Kurds will. They gonna have a government composed of Sunni, Shiite, and Kurd? Yeah fucking right. Why dont you throw in a Jew as prime minister.

This place could end up looking like Afghanistan by the time its all over.

If there is a time when the fighting is over, after the head cheese is offed, you can bet there are a lot of N. American people who will be itching to race to Iraq or chip in and send aid, clothes, blankets etc, in an attempt to show them that "we love them" and bear no lingering hatred towards them, especially if they show the least amount of appreciation towards what will be given.

Bank on it.

Will it make a difference? I don't know, and at this point I'm not willing to predict anything.

and it probably will. The cleanup is gonna be a much larger clusterfuck than what's going on now. This war shit is pretty much carved in stone. Anyone that thinks Iraq is gonna somehow win this is only kidding themselves. But what gets done with the place afterwards is going to be seriously fucking jacked up for a long damn time, and will probably turn pretty ugly if it goes on too long without some kind of permanent solution.

Labret,

remember 1 thing though. The one reason why some sort of democracy could work in Iraq, Iran is that for being such a repressed country there is a great population that is educated, middle class, etc.

Just Like I belive most ppl in Iran want to take charge of there goverment.

what I do think could be the worst for us, a fight with North Korea. and I shit you not, with bush in office, there is a chance, 1 million brain washed soldiers aint nothing to laugh at.

also man, there is nothing wrong with the jewish ppl or Israel. How would you like to grow up in a country where you know you could be bombed or hit by terrorist anytime. Israel is a great country, and I hope Palestine does get a state. but no more BS.

okay... I'm all out of rational posts. I gotta switch back to inciting monkey shit-flinging now.

knock knock.

we do.

Fletch,

i knew someone was going to say that.

Ohboy. Here we go.


You'd save yourself a lot of trouble and save this thread about 4 pages if you did a search for past disussions involving Labrat and the isrealites. Can I call them "isrealites"? :D

When will you fucking retards learn that nuclear weapons contaminate the whole fucking planet.

You mean the same group that is doing most of the dressing like civilians and false surrenders that our government is blaming on Saddams army when it suits them to do so?

Yeh I know CD, but I am a jew and will never back down about my religion or Israel.. Just how it is.

Sure everyone can have there own opinion, np at all.

well considering all the bombs the united states has grown accustomed to over the past 20 years including Unabomber, and McVeigh types, not to mention more than one attack from Osama, its clear its possible anytime, anywhere, innocent or targetted.

yep.. Iraq has several thousand times the normal radiation limit in it's soil and food, widely blamed on the depleted uranium used by the west in the first gulf war.

ah so he blames us and steals tomatoes.

<a href=http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?Avis=TO&Dato=20030325&Kategori=NEWS28&Lop enr=103250073&Ref=AR>Army stands by depleted uranium use</a>

'A World Health Organization medical team visited Basra and proposed a study to see why the city was so sick. But Saddam Hussein refused.

"Unless that study is done, it is going to be very difficult to try to understand what is behind the large number of people being ill," Dr. Kilpatrick said.

He noted that no tank battles occurred in Basra or other population centers during the Persian Gulf War. Depleted uranium, he said, is too heavy to have blown into the city.

A half dozen major studies, done by government and non-government agencies in the United States and Europe, have failed to support health concerns about depleted uranium.'

It's a liberating feeling when the truth comes to light.

:1orglaugh

UNITED NATIONS -- During last year's presidential campaign, Richard B. Cheney acknowledged that the oil-field supply corporation he headed, Halliburton Co., did business with Libya and Iran through foreign subsidiaries. But he insisted that he had imposed a "firm policy" against trading with Iraq.

"Iraq's different," he said.

According to oil industry executives and confidential United Nations records, however, Halliburton held stakes in two firms that signed contracts to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and chief executive officer of the Dallas-based company.

Two former senior executives of the Halliburton subsidiaries say that, as far as they knew, there was no policy against doing business with Iraq. One of the executives also says that although he never spoke directly to Cheney about the Iraqi contracts, he is certain Cheney knew about them.

Mary Matalin, Cheney's counselor, said that if he "was ever in a conversation or meeting where there was a question of pursuing a project with someone in Iraq, he said, 'No.' "

"In a joint venture, he would not have reviewed all their existing contracts," Matalin said. "The nature of those joint ventures was that they had a separate governing structure, so he had no control over them."

The trade was perfectly legal. Indeed, it is a case study of how U.S. firms routinely use foreign subsidiaries and joint ventures to avoid the opprobrium of doing business with Baghdad, which does not violate U.S. law as long as it occurs within the "oil-for-food" program run by the United Nations.

Halliburton's trade with Iraq was first reported by The Washington Post in February 2000. But U.N. records recently obtained by The Post show that the dealings were more extensive than originally reported and than Vice President Cheney has acknowledged.

As secretary of defense in the first Bush administration, Cheney helped to lead a multinational coalition against Iraq in the Persian Gulf War and to devise a comprehensive economic embargo to isolate Saddam Hussein's government. After Cheney was named in 1995 to head Halliburton, he promised to maintain a hard line against Baghdad.

But in 1998, Cheney oversaw Halliburton's acquisition of Dresser Industries Inc., which exported equipment to Iraq through two subsidiaries of a joint venture with another large U.S. equipment maker, Ingersoll-Rand Co.

Evidence 9/11 was planned...

<a href="http://www.redherring.com/vc/2002/0111/947.html">On September 11, The Carlyle Group was having a conference at the Ritz Carlton hotel in Washington, DC with members of the Bin Laden family, one of their investors.</a> Bush family is also invested in the Carlyle Group... why do you forget this shit so quickly? It's one big fucking scam paid for in human blood...

7 days into a war with the biggest logistical gains in history.....

Yeah.... It's a fucking quagmire. :thumbsup

and Saddam never tested these radiation bombs.

<a href=http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/05/11/un.iraq/>Iraq admits it had radiation bomb plan</a>

May 2001

hehe.

Seems to me they are letting you walk into Fortress Baghdad

I think they learned during the Gulf War what happens when you try and take on the USA in the middle of the desert in more traditional warfare.

I doubt he wants to make that mistake twice.

Do you really think Bush runs the world? :1orglaugh If Bush had a mind of his own he would be capped in no time like Kennedy... All he does is take orders from the most powerful people in the world. All these wars -- just fucking housekeeping chores. Maybe the most powerful people in the world are really nice and have a utopian dream... yeah right.

Time will tell won't it.

However, my previous statement stands true non the less. In the Gulf War they bombed for 39 days before they moved a troop. Now 7 days in they are at the gates of Baghdad.

You do the math :winkwink:

On a global scale like this -- you can't just have 1 powerful person (ie: Bush) running the whole show -- because power comes from being resourceful... If you really think the most powerful, wealthy, and resourceful people in the world give a fuck about the stars and stripes and bullshit slogans and songs -- you're out of your fucking mind... They are concerned with running the world so it doesn't fucking fall to pieces -- so they can continue to run the world from behind the scenes decades from now, generation to generation.

Probably the same reason you have mafia -- what can you really do about it? There's always going to be somebody smarter and more greedy than the next guy -- the more you have -- the more you have to protect... and the higher stakes just get more dangerous until you get to the top where the Bush family is -- where you are negotiating plans that involve oceans of human blood... Do you really think the world runs itself on its own like a "game of life" AI simulation? :1orglaugh But what is the alternative?

Utopia? :Graucho Who can solve the ultimate problem of mankind...

Holy shit Pete.




You should be on an island somewhere, with all the weed you could possibly smoke in ten lifetimes. :stoned

I don't smoke anymore. It's just common sense. I'm thinking about all this stuff right now because of this war and I'm reading Isaac Asimov "Foundation" series... Or just talk to some real mobsters :thumbsup do you really think that people with power aren't self-reflexive? :1orglaugh You can't have power without understanding why and how you have that power in the first place and without contextualizing/understanding the motivating forces, etc. Do you really think ultimate power is just dumb luck? Your vote means shit. Until we have utopia -- power is a constant.

You are the second fucking person today to tell me to move to an island... Jesus. Maybe I will join Amp in Hawaii :1orglaugh

If democracy worked they wouldn't let us have it.

Hawaii is beatiful if ya don't mind living on a volcano.

Out of box thought.


Possibly, the Muslim religeon is tainted by the handouts the oil men give to there mosque's. Alot of Oil = alot of money. Alot of money goes to there mosque. This might be an explanation as to why these various tribes fight each other so fiercely.
Its greed.
Not an answer but a possible reason that has lead to these times.

Alot of Catholic (Christian) off shoots now a days and well...
They been known to kill one another as well throughout history. Remember the Inquistion? Well in hind site at least it was not fueled by oil money which is as previously stated. "Alot of money" to perpetuate the greed leading to murder in the name of god.

Oh well time for bed.

That sounds right.

You might be right but I don't think Saddam is particularly known for not making mistakes twice.

you mean the way Chile settled down after we assassinated Allende, or Cambodia settled down after we got rid of Sihanouk and the Khmer Rouge took over?

FYI: they didn't.