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directfiesta 03-25-2003 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sacX
of course it's nothing to do with oil..

Halliburton wins first oil contract

I don't know if Opec countries would want to sell in Euro's. I'd be *VERY* surprised if Saudi Arabia or Kuwait wanted to do this.

Probably right... Who the fuck would want Euros??? not even pornpeddlers....

Quote:

OPEC's oil exports in euros good for Texas bad for US
17-03-99 Now that the euro rivals the dollar as a medium of international exchange, the OPEC nations have a strong incentive to price their oil exports in euros.
That would bode well for Texas oil producers and the entire economy of the Lone Star state, according to Cameron Smith, founder and managing director, COSCO Capital Management LCC, an oil industry consulting firm.
"Since its advent in January, the euro has traded at a premium to the dollar -- recently at a premium of about 10 % -- and the percentage differential has begun to rise.
"A one-for-one change from dollar to euro pricing would mean that the price per barrel of oil in dollars would increase correspondingly, which would be great for Texas oil producers but devastating to our national trade deficit. The effects of a shift to the euro could, in fact, be more long lasting than OPEC's current and previous efforts to curtail oil production," he said.

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntn91685.htm

nuclei 03-25-2003 11:49 PM

I find it highly amusing that Blu loves to insult americans when it was russia that fell the fuck apart.

must suck eh Blue? The fact you cant even win a cold war let alone a hot one?

steveB 03-26-2003 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blu Solutions
You definitelly right, man.
And it is pleasant, that you (american) understand that.

There are several major reasons for the war:

1) Euro vs Dollar. The OPEC countries are going to switch to EURO - that is true.
And there is a huge reason for it - American DOLLAR is a great SOAP BUBBLE. It is supported by gold equivalent by only 1/25 part !!
The total sum of the people of United Europe soon will reach 500 000 000 people - it is much more than US citizens - so there is no more reasons to sell the oil for green papers, which are not supported by ANYTHING. Euro in this case is much more stable.

So, your government afraid of it, because they understand - if OPEC will switch to EURO - american economy will collapce. YOu heard about the Marshall's plan in 1960-es ?


2) Oil.
American economy is very dependable on the oil costs. It cannot be developped effectively when oil cost are more than $15 per barrel. For now it is $30 per barrel.
As you do know, american national debt is 6.5 trillions of dollars. American import-export deficit is about 400 billions of dollars per year.
If America don't wont to get an economy collapce- it should get 2 billions of investments from outside PER DAY.
But investors don't want to invest the money to USA because of high costs of production (great part of the production costs is ENERGY - and the oil is the most important factor).
Oil in Iraq costs $0.5 per barrel - so that's why America wants to get it and go against the whole world to reach it's target.
Saddam is just an occasion.
And "chemical and biological weapons" is a fucking fake.



This is the worst argument I've ever heard.

US debt is irrelevant. Yes, it's large - but as a function of GDP it's below most.

US debt/GDP = 57%
French debt/GDP = 67%
Canadain debt/GDP = 100.2%
British debt/GDP = 54%
Japanese debt/GDP = 136%
Spanish debt/GDP = 70%

etc.

U.S. GDP per capita is about 40% greater than the any other country in the western/asian world. God knows how much higher it is compared to any third world countries. If there's one stat that tells the world the U.S. economy is set to be the world leader for the foreseeable future - that's the one.

You also assert in consecutive 'points' that the a falling US dollar (cause OPEC's gonna switch baseline currency when selling oil, and this would supposedly matter... LOL) is going to hurt the econonmy, then point out the U.S. trade deficit as further evidence of doom.

Apparently you fail to recognize trade deficits are a function of currency strenth - and they work inversely. Countries with a strong currency do not export items well. Other countries can't afford their items. Likewise countries with a strong currency tend to import items as imports are cheap. The quickest way for the U.S. to reduce it's trade deficit would be for the value of the dollar to fall. There are many, many in this country (notably organized labor) that want the dollar to fall and argue such a scenario would greatly benefit the U.S. economy.

You have absolutely zero understanding of economic principles and I'd recommend you avoid using economic 'analysis' in your arguments.

czarkazm 03-26-2003 12:14 AM

Let's break it down real quick:

Bush gets his oil. [mental note: tools serve a limited purpose]
Israel gets the world.


I don't like all this speculation going around. Give it an iota of thought, and the pieces all fit. See you in 2012.

directfiesta 03-26-2003 12:40 AM

Canada GDP/debt projection 2003 : 50%

Cette dette, qui tournait autour de 550 milliards fin 2001, ne devrait tomber en dessous des 50% du PIB qu'en 2003, selon le projet de budget.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/reseau/pol...020063905.html

2001 Canada GDP/debt: 51.8%

La dette publique nette, exprimée en proportion de l?économie, se chiffre maintenant à 51,8 %, en baisse de près de 19 points de pourcentage par rapport au sommet de 70,7 % atteint en 1995-1996. À l?échelle internationale, aucun pays du G-7 n?a réduit son fardeau de la dette autant que le Canada.


http://www.fin.gc.ca/afr/2001/afr01_1f.html


Those are canadian gov websites. Wonder where you got your figures?

Quote:

US debt is irrelevant. Yes, it's large - but as a function of GDP it's below most.

Canadain debt/GDP = 100.2%


You have absolutely zero understanding of economic principles and I'd recommend you avoid using economic 'analysis' in your arguments.

steveB 03-26-2003 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta
Canada GDP/debt projection 2003 : 50%

Those are canadian gov websites. Wonder where you got your figures?


That's odd.

Mine came from http://www.economist.com/countries/C...conomic%20Data

directfiesta 03-26-2003 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by steveB


That's odd.

Mine came from http://www.economist.com/countries/C...conomic%20Data

WTF ? shows that there can be " doctored " numbers ....

Honestly, I don't know if any of those are true or calculated the same way.

Maybe yours is referring to all the debt Canadians have ( all levels of Gov + personnal loans + credit cards ) in % of GDP... since it says "Public debt"...

But we are not going to piss in the air over that ...

steveB 03-26-2003 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta


WTF ? shows that there can be " doctored " numbers ....

Honestly, I don't know if any of those are true or calculated the same way.

Maybe yours is referring to all the debt Canadians have ( all levels of Gov + personnal loans + credit cards ) in % of GDP... since it says "Public debt"...

But we are not going to piss in the air over that ...


Yeah, don't really know what to think.

I'm leaving for Banff in a few hours. I'll ask when I'm up there :)

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE 03-26-2003 01:22 AM

Its all about the Illuminati...

The outcome is decided. When the USA dies and is no longer... That event will certainly be the sign of the times when mankinds rise will begin fall. For the USA as a contenent will not be going away any time soon nor within your life times or childrens life times.

All civilizations fall its proven and will perpetually happen.

Some sooner than others. Accept that the USA will always be for quite sometime. It aint goin away.
But the Illuminati will always be behind occurances and in the minds of those in that order all decide who lives, who dies who leads and when.


nervous yet?
Now goto to sleep. Sleep with one eye open
:glugglug

flashfreak 03-26-2003 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JeremySF



before you talk about it just being about oil, why don't you do a cost-benefit analysis. I guarantee you there are far less risky and more lucrative ways to exploit oil than going to war.

sure thing..
as long as USA prints money without backing them in gold a cost/ benefit analyssis is worthless... the paper is cheap you know...
big deal, Federal Reserve will take care of it...
keeping USD's hegemony is the real problem.... iraq started to sell oil on euros in 6 november 2001, Syria, Iran intend to do so... now THAT's the real problem...
nobody said USA came to IRAQ to steal oil.. the came to install a puppuet government so they control the country...
making plans for Iraq after the war... I didn't hear Iraqi's asking for a reconstruction, you did?

Gemini 03-26-2003 02:43 AM

Blu... you aren't even smart enough to figure out how to open a US based bank account yet you have the gall to think you are smart enough to understand World politics... Hmmm, still wet behind the ears yet think you can tell the wetnurse how to do her job eh?

Clue,... go back to school and quit trying to play grownup. Before someone stubs your toe on the jungle gym.

I've heard this dribble out of others like you for years over every darned conflict that has ever happened and from idiot kids every time as well. Life goes on, the World still turns and dqrn! The sun rises in the East each morning. Take your malignant rants over to a Neo-Nazi board, or did THEY run you off as well?

goBigtime 03-26-2003 02:46 AM

Who was it that said that the Russians would change the rotation of the earth while we (Americans) slept and in the morning we would be under the pacific and atlantic oceans? :1orglaugh :1orglaugh Was that Bluspew too?

sacX 03-26-2003 03:01 AM

Opec Article on Euros

There's a lot of reading there, and i haven't read it all, but it seems very interesting. It is by the then Secretary General of OPEC essentially building a case for oil to at least partly be traded in Euros.

One thing is some of the weaknesses he points out about the Euro have been turned around since then. For example the actual relative weakness of the Euro to USD.

While the USD is losing some of it's previous strengths. e.g seens as a reliable store of value, and general goodwill around the world.

If Norway and the UK join the Euro you can pretty much kiss goodbye US dominance of oil trade. Best case scenario there is dual pricing.


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