The Arab League

[XSpider]

CNN and BCC reported that the Arab League have condemned the war and stated it as to be "illegal". I hope this war doens't get out of hand......

[directfiesta]

Don't worry , it wont .

It already has....

[JeremySF]

Uh oh.....we better tell the prez. We should just end the war now.

[XSpider]

Originally posted by JeremySF
Uh oh.....we better tell the prez. We just just end the war now.

What kind of fucking comment is that? I just posted what i saw on BBC and CNN, if you don't like it, don't reply to it.

[JeremySF]

Originally posted by XSpider


What kind of fucking comment is that? I just posted what i saw on BBC and CNN, if you don't like it, don't reply to it.

My bad. I didn't realize we should only reply to posts we like. I thought I was on GFY. Evidently I was wrong. I'll make sure I never reply again.

I wasn't replying to you specifically anyways. I was commenting on the absurdity of the Arab League condemning the war.

[rooster]

americans are infidels, zionists bla bla bla, nothing to see here

[XSpider]

Originally posted by JeremySF






I wasn't replying to you specifically anyways. I was commenting on the fact that the Arab League condemning the war.

Sorry, i guess i misunderstood you. It troubles me though that they condemn it. I don't know what they are capable of and how they think upthere.... don't know if they would eventually take action of some sort if they push their will.

[drunkmonkey]

From a logistics standpoint, the Iraqi war is a horrible mess. Our supply lines are stretched way beyond acceptable measures. Not to mention that a large part of our military is totally surrounded by hostile nations which causes a defensive posture along hundreds of miles.

The arab nations are extremely threatened by the attack on Iraq. OPEC can effectively be dismantled if America seizes control of the Iraqi oil production. Simply flooding the market with oil would destroy the OPEC hold on prices. The arab nations will most likely end up assisting the Iraqi military.

There are many, many reasons why the middle eastern peoples might decide to attack the American military during this campaign. And if they do, our only line of retreat is through the Strait of Hormuz. It could turn very, very ugly for the American military. I hope that it does not but chances are very high that it will.

[XSpider]

Originally posted by drunkmonkey
From a logistics standpoint, the Iraqi war is a horrible mess. Our supply lines are stretched way beyond acceptable measures. Not to mention that a large part of our military is totally surrounded by hostile nations which causes a defensive posture along hundreds of miles.

The arab nations are extremely threatened by the attack on Iraq. OPEC can effectively be dismantled if America seizes control of the Iraqi oil production. Simply flooding the market with oil would destroy the OPEC hold on prices. The arab nations will most likely end up assisting the Iraqi military.

There are many, many reasons why the middle eastern peoples might decide to attack the American military during this campaign. And if they do, our only line of retreat is through the Strait of Hormuz. It could turn very, very ugly for the American military. I hope that it does not but chances are very high that it will.

Very informative man, thx.... i was thinking somewhere down the line what you described but i didn't expect they would use millitary action to push their will. I hope they don't if it comes to that, it could indeed get very messy.

[rooster]

leftist hogwash

[mika]

Originally posted by drunkmonkey
From a logistics standpoint, the Iraqi war is a horrible mess. Our supply lines are stretched way beyond acceptable measures. Not to mention that a large part of our military is totally surrounded by hostile nations which causes a defensive posture along hundreds of miles.

The arab nations are extremely threatened by the attack on Iraq. OPEC can effectively be dismantled if America seizes control of the Iraqi oil production. Simply flooding the market with oil would destroy the OPEC hold on prices. The arab nations will most likely end up assisting the Iraqi military.

There are many, many reasons why the middle eastern peoples might decide to attack the American military during this campaign. And if they do, our only line of retreat is through the Strait of Hormuz. It could turn very, very ugly for the American military. I hope that it does not but chances are very high that it will.

Very good analysis. And scary.

[drunkmonkey]

One thing that has really bothered me about this conflict so far is the total lack of the Iraqi Air Force. I have seen neither hide nor hair of its deployment.

the Iraqi Air Force was hit hard during the first Gulf War, I know. And the AL QUWWAT AL JAWWIYA AL IRAQIYA (IRAQI AIR FORCE) is notorious for playing cat and mouse instead of direct air-to-air combat, instead, relying on drawing fighters into surface-to-air zones. But Iraq still has a working air force with approx. 700 planes, with over 250 of them being attack aircraft (60 Mirage F1EQa, 100 MiG-21s and MiG-23s of various types with about 10 MiG-25s comprising the bulk of their attack aircraft). I have not heard one word about an attack by Iraqi planes or any Iraqi planes being captured or destroyed.

What are they waiting for?

I think Baghdad is going to be an interesting battle.

[XSpider]

Originally posted by drunkmonkey
One thing that has really bothered me about this conflict so far is the total lack of the Iraqi Air Force. I have seen neither hide nor hair of its deployment.

the Iraqi Air Force was hit hard during the first Gulf War, I know. And the AL QUWWAT AL JAWWIYA AL IRAQIYA (IRAQI AIR FORCE) is notorious for playing cat and mouse instead of direct air-to-air combat, instead, relying on drawing fighters into surface-to-air zones. But Iraq still has a working air force with approx. 700 planes, with over 250 of them being attack aircraft (60 Mirage F1EQa, 100 MiG-21s and MiG-23s of various types with about 10 MiG-25s comprising the bulk of their attack aircraft). I have not heard one word about an attack by Iraqi planes or any Iraqi planes being captured or destroyed.

What are they waiting for?

I think Baghdad is going to be an interesting battle.

Well, i can fill you in on this one. Firts we have the Mirage wich needs alot of maintenance hours and replacement pieces for it to be able to do long time operations. Same thing for the Migs, i think they need a revision every 2,000 flight hours or so. The engines of both aircrafts need to be replaced very often because they both work on a "clean inlet" meaning there is nothing inbetween the inlet and the engine itself. It sucks up all the dirt not to mention alot of desert sand. I think 9 out of 10 Iraqi military jets would crash in it's first 5 flight hours because they don't maintain them anymore, most are not air worthy anymore. They probably still have the aircrafts but they are not able anymore to make them air worthy.

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by drunkmonkey
From a logistics standpoint, the Iraqi war is a horrible mess. Our supply lines are stretched way beyond acceptable measures. Not to mention that a large part of our military is totally surrounded by hostile nations which causes a defensive posture along hundreds of miles.

The arab nations are extremely threatened by the attack on Iraq. OPEC can effectively be dismantled if America seizes control of the Iraqi oil production. Simply flooding the market with oil would destroy the OPEC hold on prices. The arab nations will most likely end up assisting the Iraqi military.

There are many, many reasons why the middle eastern peoples might decide to attack the American military during this campaign. And if they do, our only line of retreat is through the Strait of Hormuz. It could turn very, very ugly for the American military. I hope that it does not but chances are very high that it will.

I have seen many reports that back up everything you have said. I have also seen reports of alot of Anti-American sentiment from citizens not only in Baghdad but all of Iraq and the surrounding countries. Definately something to think about and it will be interesting to see how the Baghdad fight goes. We shall see pretty soon.

[kmanrox]

the towelhead league can kiss my pearly white ASS....

and they can email me at kman at camelraper.com

(for real)

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by XSpider


Sorry, i guess i misunderstood you. It troubles me though that they condemn it. I don't know what they are capable of and how they think upthere.... don't know if they would eventually take action of some sort if they push their will.

I just hope that the politicians have a better idea on this than you do. The Arabs will see this as an attack on a fellow Muslim oil producer by infidels. Did you really think, they think the same as an American?

Drunkmonkey sums it up perfectly.

[ADL Colin]

The Arab League is upset that part of their weaponry
to destroy Israel is being dismantled. They think this is a Jewish plot. ;-) j/k. Only half of them think this is a Jewish plot.

One thing that is interesting is that Arab leaders often proclaim one thing in public and act differently in private.

Have you noticed that the US has support and/or troops in Jordan, Omar, UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain?

[drunkmonkey]

Originally posted by XSpider


Well, i can fill you in on this one. Firts we have the Mirage wich needs alot of maintenance hours and replacement pieces for it to be able to do long time operations. Same thing for the Migs, i think they need a revision every 2,000 flight hours or so. The engines of both aircrafts need to be replaced very often because they both work on a "clean inlet" meaning there is nothing inbetween the inlet and the engine itself. It sucks up all the dirt not to mention alot of desert sand. I think 9 out of 10 Iraqi military jets would crash in it's first 5 flight hours because they don't maintain them anymore, most are not air worthy anymore. They probably still have the aircrafts but they are not able anymore to make them air worthy.

Good points. That would explain why we have not seen any air assaults.

I know that Iraq has kept close to 200 migs in Iran since the mid 90s (why Iran, who was at war with Iraq for almost a decade, has chosen to do this is beyond me) and it might be for maintenance purposes. The sanctions placed on Iraq prevent most military parts including replacement. That might explain why Iran kept them and then repatriated them back to Iraq.

I would feel more comfortable if there were some reports of captured aircraft, even if they were inoperable.

[drunkmonkey]

Originally posted by stocktrader23


...I have also seen reports of alot of Anti-American sentiment from citizens not only in Baghdad but all of Iraq and the surrounding countries.

The American media is horrendous at giving the perspective of the Iraqi people. We are spoonfed the "fact" that they all hate Saddam and want to see him overthrown. True interviews from the people of Iraq are few and far between on American television.

I saw a program on Newslink called "Bridges to Baghdad" that had a group of teenagers from Baghdad and a group of teenagers from New York talk to each other via satellite. They played video from the lives of the Iraqi teenagers and then asked each other questions. It was really interesting. The iraqi teens were very normal and could not understand why Bush wanted to attack Iraq. One girl said that she could not imagine another president besides Saddam seeing as how she has grown up with him as predisdent her whole life. All the teens were against the war. One Iraqi teen had a steel gate on his door and said it was because he heard that the American troops were going to raid his house when they got there. they all seemed a little pissed that bush thought he had the right to fuck up their lives.

There was one Iraqi guy that was really into heavy metal. I about died when he said the Backstreet Boys suck.

My point is that it seems as though the whole world is definately in "shock and awe". Shock and awe that Bush has the audacity to force his will on the world.

[rooster]

im amazed at some of the leftists comments that some people come up with.

Even stalin and pol pot had their supporters.


35% of the usa residents are worthless. Every country has their share. Every interview I have ever heard of anyone that lived in iraq or has family there, want sadam out bad. Maybe if you had a relative that had their tongue cut out or was tortured, you wouldnt think he was such a great guy.



Comments like those of the teens is the exact reason guys like sadaam need to be taken out. Because they are taught from the day they are born that America is satan, infidels, and need to be killed etc.

[XSpider]

Originally posted by rooster
im amazed at some of the leftists comments that some people come up with.

Even stalin and pol pot had their supporters.


35% of the usa residents are worthless. Every country has their share. Every interview I have ever heard of anyone that lived in iraq or has family there, want sadam out bad. Maybe if you had a relative that had their tongue cut out or was tortured, you wouldnt think he was such a great guy.



Comments like those of the teens is the exact reason guys like sadaam need to be taken out. Because they are taught from the day they are born that America is satan, infidels, and need to be killed etc.

Who are you refering to? I stated i am NOT against the war and sadam has to go.

[drunkmonkey]

Originally posted by rooster

Comments like those of the teens is the exact reason guys like sadaam need to be taken out. Because they are taught from the day they are born that America is satan, infidels, and need to be killed etc.

Unlike the "truth" that Saddam is evil, merciless, and needs to be killed.

I guess that our propaganda is better than their propaganda.

[rooster]

'Unlike the "truth" that Saddam is evil, merciless, and needs to be killed. '


Then what is he. Kind, gentle, freedom loving?


You need to go to iraq and have a rude awakening like those human shields had.

[galleryseek]

Originally posted by drunkmonkey



Unlike the "truth" that Saddam is evil, merciless, and needs to be killed.

I guess that our propaganda is better than their propaganda.

lmao so you think saddam is a nice hip n' happenin guy? uh, he has killed nearly 800k, possibly 1 mill. give me a few and i'll gather some links for ya ok buddy?

[galleryseek]

Iraq, 35 years ago was a prosperous country, its
political position was stable, economy was fit and people were reasonably
wealthy. In came the Baath party of Saddam. What Iraq saw since then was
war after war, continuous murder and executions of the Iraqi opposition by
the regime, poverty, sanctions on the Iraqi people (not Saddam) and
political instability. Saddam has killed and executed around 1.5 million
Iraqis during his time:

- At least 1 million Iraqis killed or injured during his war against Iran.
- At least 100,000 of Iraqi opposition killed or executed during the last 34
years (since 1968).
- 150,000 Iraqi soldiers killed or injured during his invasion of Kuwait.
- At least 250,000 Iraqis killed after the popular uprising during March
1991 until today.
- 180,000 Iraqi Kurds killed during Anfal operations against Kurds
1987-1988.
- 5,000 killed by poisonous gas in Halabja on 17 -3-1988.
- 50,000 killed during the destruction of the Marshes in the south.
- Many died during the deportation of Iraqis to Iran during 1970- 2002.
- At least 300 Turkomans killed or executed by the regime.
- At least 100 of Iraqi opposition assassinated outside Iraq by Saddam's
agents.
- Hundreds of the ruling Baath party top members were executed by Saddam.


Furthermore, 1.7 million (and continuing to rise) Iraqi children, women and
men died during the economic sanctions imposed by UN because of Saddam's
attempt to invade Kuwait. Saddam is also using 10 different security forces
apparatus to kill or execute. He uses at least 200 methods to torture people
in 300 prison and detention centres in Iraq.

-------------------------------------------------------------

"You have said that estimates are that Saddam has killed approximately one million of his own citizens since 1979."

"Yes, that would include Kurds, Shi'ites, Christians and Sunnis. There were two huge massacres. There was the so-called Anfal campaign against the Kurds at the end of the 1980s when 4,000 villages were destroyed, and about 100,000 to 150,000 persons were killed, some with poison gas. Up to a million people were sent into internal exile. The other big massacre was in the south in the 1990s, where the regime has killed about 300,000 Shi'ites in the last 10 years. In addition, there have been enormous massacres against communists over the past two decades.

"The estimate of one million killed only includes civilians. A million Iraqi soldiers were killed in the Iran-Iraq war. A half-million Iraqis died of hunger or disease because of sanctions on Iraq, and more were killed in the Gulf War. Some 1.5 to two million people have been internally displaced, and 4.5 million Iraqi refugees are scattered across the globe. Ten percent of the Iraqi population has been killed or deported during the rule of Saddam Hussein. That is the essence of his regime. It is not an accident. It is systematic."

http://www.photodude.com/weblog/dump...r/002267.shtml

--------------------------------------------------

to see many more, go to google and type in "saddam has killed"

[drunkmonkey]

Originally posted by rooster
'Unlike the "truth" that Saddam is evil, merciless, and needs to be killed. '


Then what is he. Kind, gentle, freedom loving?


You need to go to iraq and have a rude awakening like those human shields had.

"You are not superior just because you see the world in an odious light."
Vicomte de Chateaubriand (1768 - 1848)


"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?"
Mahatma Gandhi (1869 - 1948), "Non-Violence in Peace and War"


I can only assume by your vehement remarks that you are closely involved in the affairs of the Iraqi people and are supporting the war because of your love for their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. More power to you. I commend anyone who is willing to give their life in order to liberate an oppressed people.

Or, I can assume that your remarks are directed with such distain, not for the concern of the Iraqi people, but because you fail to see how your world perspective might possibly be incorrect and choose to attack anyone who does not have the same perspective.

I think it is you who should go to Iraq and recieve a rude awakening.

[theking]

Originally posted by drunkmonkey
From a logistics standpoint, the Iraqi war is a horrible mess. Our supply lines are stretched way beyond acceptable measures. Not to mention that a large part of our military is totally surrounded by hostile nations which causes a defensive posture along hundreds of miles.

The arab nations are extremely threatened by the attack on Iraq. OPEC can effectively be dismantled if America seizes control of the Iraqi oil production. Simply flooding the market with oil would destroy the OPEC hold on prices. The arab nations will most likely end up assisting the Iraqi military.

There are many, many reasons why the middle eastern peoples might decide to attack the American military during this campaign. And if they do, our only line of retreat is through the Strait of Hormuz. It could turn very, very ugly for the American military. I hope that it does not but chances are very high that it will.

The Israeli Army has defeated the Arab world several times. The US forces retreat...not!

[theking]

Originally posted by drunkmonkey
One thing that has really bothered me about this conflict so far is the total lack of the Iraqi Air Force. I have seen neither hide nor hair of its deployment.

the Iraqi Air Force was hit hard during the first Gulf War, I know. And the AL QUWWAT AL JAWWIYA AL IRAQIYA (IRAQI AIR FORCE) is notorious for playing cat and mouse instead of direct air-to-air combat, instead, relying on drawing fighters into surface-to-air zones. But Iraq still has a working air force with approx. 700 planes, with over 250 of them being attack aircraft (60 Mirage F1EQa, 100 MiG-21s and MiG-23s of various types with about 10 MiG-25s comprising the bulk of their attack aircraft). I have not heard one word about an attack by Iraqi planes or any Iraqi planes being captured or destroyed.

What are they waiting for?

I think Baghdad is going to be an interesting battle.

Their pilots apparently don't want to commit suicide. Your numbers are not even close to being correct.

[rooster]

drunk, you are a poor excuse of a human being.

There is no reason to keep saddam hussein in power.


If you spent ten minutes in iraq, you would think the same. Its easy to get on your high horse and think you have some high plane of consciousness and be some devils advocate, but this is the real world.

[jayeff]

Originally posted by kmanrox
the towelhead league can kiss my pearly white ASS....

and they can email me at kman at camelraper.com

(for real)

All 300 million of them... good thinking....

[theking]

Originally posted by drunkmonkey


Good points. That would explain why we have not seen any air assaults.

I know that Iraq has kept close to 200 migs in Iran since the mid 90s (why Iran, who was at war with Iraq for almost a decade, has chosen to do this is beyond me) and it might be for maintenance purposes. The sanctions placed on Iraq prevent most military parts including replacement. That might explain why Iran kept them and then repatriated them back to Iraq.

I would feel more comfortable if there were some reports of captured aircraft, even if they were inoperable.

Pay attention...what remained of their airforce from the 1st Gulf War...we have been bombing.

[galleryseek]

damn, theking is owning some shit up.

[drunkmonkey]

Originally posted by galleryseek
Iraq, 35 years ago was a prosperous country, its
political position was stable, economy was fit and people were reasonably
wealthy. In came the Baath party of Saddam. What Iraq saw since then was
war after war, continuous murder and executions of the Iraqi opposition by
the regime, poverty, sanctions on the Iraqi people (not Saddam) and
political instability. Saddam has killed and executed around 1.5 million
Iraqis during his time:

- At least 1 million Iraqis killed or injured during his war against Iran.
- At least 100,000 of Iraqi opposition killed or executed during the last 34
years (since 1968).
- 150,000 Iraqi soldiers killed or injured during his invasion of Kuwait.
- At least 250,000 Iraqis killed after the popular uprising during March
1991 until today.
- 180,000 Iraqi Kurds killed during Anfal operations against Kurds
1987-1988.
- 5,000 killed by poisonous gas in Halabja on 17 -3-1988.
- 50,000 killed during the destruction of the Marshes in the south.
- Many died during the deportation of Iraqis to Iran during 1970- 2002.
- At least 300 Turkomans killed or executed by the regime.
- At least 100 of Iraqi opposition assassinated outside Iraq by Saddam's
agents.
- Hundreds of the ruling Baath party top members were executed by Saddam.


Furthermore, 1.7 million (and continuing to rise) Iraqi children, women and
men died during the economic sanctions imposed by UN because of Saddam's
attempt to invade Kuwait. Saddam is also using 10 different security forces
apparatus to kill or execute. He uses at least 200 methods to torture people
in 300 prison and detention centres in Iraq.

-------------------------------------------------------------

"You have said that estimates are that Saddam has killed approximately one million of his own citizens since 1979."

"Yes, that would include Kurds, Shi'ites, Christians and Sunnis. There were two huge massacres. There was the so-called Anfal campaign against the Kurds at the end of the 1980s when 4,000 villages were destroyed, and about 100,000 to 150,000 persons were killed, some with poison gas. Up to a million people were sent into internal exile. The other big massacre was in the south in the 1990s, where the regime has killed about 300,000 Shi'ites in the last 10 years. In addition, there have been enormous massacres against communists over the past two decades.

"The estimate of one million killed only includes civilians. A million Iraqi soldiers were killed in the Iran-Iraq war. A half-million Iraqis died of hunger or disease because of sanctions on Iraq, and more were killed in the Gulf War. Some 1.5 to two million people have been internally displaced, and 4.5 million Iraqi refugees are scattered across the globe. Ten percent of the Iraqi population has been killed or deported during the rule of Saddam Hussein. That is the essence of his regime. It is not an accident. It is systematic."

http://www.photodude.com/weblog/dump...r/002267.shtml

--------------------------------------------------

to see many more, go to google and type in "saddam has killed"

Saddam may be a bad guy. Honestly, I do not know. I do not think that you do either. I do know that I am not willing to give up mine or my child's life because CNN says Saddam is evil. Since when is it my responsibility to police the world? What are YOU willing to pay to see evil Saddam destroyed? $5,000? Your left hand? Your life? Nothing but lip service on a public bulletin board?

Much of the killing of his own people can be attributed to revolts and civil wars by the Kurds and Shi'ites. To use statistics like that then it could be just as easily said that Abraham Lincoln killed over 600,000 of his own people.

[drunkmonkey]

Originally posted by theking


The Israeli Army has defeated the Arab world several times. The US forces retreat...not!

The history of warfare is littered with defeated superior armies. Strength and technology is a plus in battle but it is not a guaranteed victory. Any physical confrontation can be lost by even the mightiest of armies. To think that this war is going to be handed to the US simply because we are stronger is not a very infallible argument.

[galleryseek]

Originally posted by drunkmonkey


Saddam may be a bad guy. Honestly, I do not know. I do not think that you do either. I do know that I am not willing to give up mine or my child's life because CNN says Saddam is evil. Since when is it my responsibility to police the world? What are YOU willing to pay to see evil Saddam destroyed? $5,000? Your left hand? Your life? Nothing but lip service on a public bulletin board?

Much of the killing of his own people can be attributed to revolts and civil wars by the Kurds and Shi'ites. To use statistics like that then it could be just as easily said that Abraham Lincoln killed over 600,000 of his own people.

yeah but what seperates him from abraham lincoln is saddam has no problem even killing his own family. this is a fact, him and his son-inlaw got in an argument and sadddam took him out and shot him in the head. this happened a few years ago so i doubt this is propoganda. sure theres propoganda w/ this war, but c'mon, propoganda can only do so much to make a guy look bad, and saddam is obviously NOT a good guy.

and what am i willing to pay to see evil saddam destroyed... well honestly since i'm here in my lil own world in warren ohio i feel disconnected with the issue... but i'm sure if my hand had to be cut off to rid iraq of saddam i'd do it, hell i'd become famous and probably rich. either way, its not about the US's intentions, who cares, whether it be because we want oil or not... a good will come out of it, and hopefully an iraq w/o saddam

[theking]

Originally posted by drunkmonkey


The history of warfare is littered with defeated superior armies.

An oxymoron.

[Anthony_A]

Ahhh, an infalliable argument?

You are posting on GFY.

They would tell you that your mom should have swallowed instead of taking it doggie style, if they decided they don't agree with your statements.

[drunkmonkey]

Originally posted by rooster
drunk, you are a poor excuse of a human being.

There is no reason to keep saddam hussein in power.


If you spent ten minutes in iraq, you would think the same. Its easy to get on your high horse and think you have some high plane of consciousness and be some devils advocate, but this is the real world.

I assume that you have spent ten minutes in Iraq which is the reason why you are all knowing about the subject.

For you to claim that I am a poor excuse of a human being, that 35% of the american people are useless, and the myriad of other hatred filled posts I have seen you vomit, you had best hope that you never fill a political role because it would be just and right for someone to blow you out of the water. Do you dislike Saddam because you feel he is a threat to your Throne of Hatred?

[drunkmonkey]

Originally posted by Anthony_A
Ahhh, an infalliable argument?

You are posting on GFY.

They would tell you that your mom should have swallowed instead of taking it doggie style, if they decided they don't agree with your statements.

True enough. That is why I only post on this board when I am drunk and high. I know that every post ends in a pissing match and it beats going out and getting in a bar fight. fucking assault charges suck. Especially when you cannot remember anything.