ian, that is easily the best proposition i have seen in quite a while for taming the check arena in this industry..

LOTS OF PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE CREDIT CARDS!

frys food and drug clears checks electronically so why can't ccbill?

Took the words right out of my mouth -- it's okay I just brushed with Monsters Inc toothpaste :)

I don't see why checks would be particularly worse for chargebacks than credit cards. Globill of course, as a bunch of folks mentioned, does let webmasters delay access until the check clears.

Yes, even one chargeback makes me see red, but if your site makes people happy, there just should not be that much of a chargeback problem. I think you've got to weigh the irritation vs. the $$.

--Amelia G

It's got nothing to do with if they like my site or not, they found a way to beat the system and they have. Before they even sign up, their mindset is on cheating the site owner/billing co

If you have the time, you can keep track of these fools. Ive noticed similar IP's and user/pass patterns with some of them. Whenever I see a check chargeback, I look at their stats, some are the same people come back, in essence making off the site on a regular basis. I then contact ccbill fraud, and have them block these idiots. As long as the chargeback ratio is under 30%, we are making money off the check system, so its ok.

Love to know who these regular bastards are who use this loophole trick to get away with paying for anything. I bet there are a select few who do this on a regular basis, with as many sites as they can.

Yea, I emailed fraud and they blocked the user ip's... I'll prob add checks back this Sat on 2 of my sites.... 70% is to much $$ to leave on the table

WTS has been a great checking solution for us, very versatile and we do not end up losing money other than few bucks worth of bandwidth tops on our subscriptions. www.achbill.com for those of you who haven't heard of them.

- Titus

I have been off checks for a month now on four of my five sites. My sales and bottom line has increased since dropping checks.

Keep in mind... people with legit checking accounts have debit visa or mastercards. If they are legit, they will use one of those and not a check.

I'm just glad I get ride of them.

Last year I set up a company that took phone orders and accepted checks. Same deal with fraud etc. But Verisign had a deal where they would guarentee the check if you went through their scrubbing process. Not sure how it worked as now I do porn and quit the day job but I know we had several options as to who to use. Maybe one of the processors can hook you guys up with that.

Telecheck has guaranteed checks but from what I have been told by WTS there is really no such things as 'guaranteed' they just take the chance based on the many scrubbing systems they use, they play the numbers. If they lost money they wouldn't do it. Guaranteed checks are offered by a few places, but the per-check cost is a little higher, and I'm doubting they accept adult or subscription-type options if you're not a Fortune 500 or AOL.

- Titus

I note some folks talking about trials. We tell our merchants all the time, if you want to bring your returns % down, change your trials.

The number one contributing factor to returns for checks is 3 day trials. Why, because in a banking system that gives banks 3 days to return an item, every return becomes 2.

First the trial was bad, and then by making it a 3 day trial the monthly recurrs before the return notice from the bank comes in, so now there are two bad transactions in the system. And from a dollar % stand point a returned monthly looks far worse than a trial.

While the actual number of returns looks slightly worse, that dollar amount really kills people, you look at 10 3.95 trials bouncing and your out the 39.00, but you have them recur bad and your now talking about 440.00 you think you didn't make.

Change your trials to 4 or even 5 days and maybe add $1.00 to them, it will change your return numbers. Plus your pushing your CC for a dollar less and encouraging people to take the cc option because they think of it as cheaper.

Almost no check guarantee company is going to take your adult business. Plus the information they want to scrub the check is going to scare away half of the good clients you have come in because they dont want to give their DL# online.

Funny thing is we could scrub harder on a couple of fronts but we then have web masters leave because we aren't clearing enough transactions.

we've never really used trials at all on our paysites, but our check returns/fraud were actually hitting a near 70% return ratio... perhaps it was just our particular sites attacting those who want to steal however. at least half of all our returned checks from that period were not even valid accounts, not even returns... i think the systems that accept checks for many of the ISPS are just not up to snuff, or fairly simple to trick into accepting a transaction... regardless, when we dropped checks altogether our bandwidth bill dropped by nearly $800 the first month, and it did not affect our final number at all... i'm sure everyone will have their own unique experience, depending on their business and markets, so there isn't really any *right* answer about checks.. :2 cents:

I agree We have in the past had a merchant that no matter what we did for them they had too much fraud, what your market is and where you get your traffic has a lot to do with it too.

I know I can get you better than 70% returns though. So feel free to talk to me if you would like to try again.

We have transaction notifications that will also give you stats before you pay out to affiliates, making it futile for them to hit you with affiliate fraud checks.

You're right. I didn't think about the fact that our niches are pretty different. For my sites, it is a lot more likely that someone who committed fraud would run into me or one of my models and I think it is maybe a little more real to them. Not that we never get chargebacks, but I think the patterns are probably different.

Only $132 from 4 sites? The other day I saw $700+ from just one of my sites. I'm still accepting checks though. Too much cash still coming in from them on a daily basis just to say bye-bye to them completely

Thanks. Let's see who is listening.

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I know where you "check haters" are coming from, but believe me when I tell you that: "YOU ARE FUCKING UP" by not accepting checks. Especially if your in this biz to make money. :2 cents:

Cheers,
BV

Bad news for PSW check rebills.

http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/showth...35#post1546005

:(

edit: to point to specific post

Not everyone in the US has a visa/mc debit card and many banks outside the US don't even offer them. :2 cents:

No offense to any of you posting, but have you noticed that the only people complaining about check returns are the really small paysite owers?
Notice that all of the big programs still take check signups.

Checks have a higher return rate, but they also recur longer, so in the end a check join is worth roughly the same amount as a CC join.
Bandwidth is cheap, so it really doesn't cost you anything for the returned check people to have access to your members area. (Its a fuck of a lot less bandwidth than offering hosted galleries, and that's giving your content away for free also)

The only way the check fraud really costs you money is if you pay per signup for check joins. But all you'd have to do for that is either not credit the webmaster with a signup until the check clears, or have your TOS say that you'll take back the money if the check is a fraud.

hey do like i did about a year ago on my biggest site: i dropped still pictures, trials, and checks.

if you don't have broadband and a credit card and the newest Windows Media Player, get the fuck off my sites...
if you have such a fucked up credit that you cannot get a bank card, i don't want you as a member. you gonna cuz me nothin but support stress...

I guess I'm a small guy, which is ok.... my bills are paid and I've got the toys I want so far.

Well, it's almost Sat and here's what I decided to do. I'm gonna accept checks again but raise the price and only include the check option on 2 of my sites. It's extra $$$.... the funny thing is I joined a site last week and used a check, lol