I really don't get why all the hype about XML - GoFuckYourself.com

BRISK · 03-24-2003, 06:51 AM

I've read a lot of articles claiming it's the next big thing, blah, blah blah....to me it just looks like an extension to HTML to make it more useful.

If I'm wrong, please educate me. What can I do with XML? Gimme some examples of where it's being used.

lEricPl · 03-24-2003, 09:56 AM

XML allows applications to communicate with each other.

(Web Applications and Desktop Applications)

XML is the 'Link' between applications.

XML is basically a cross platform 'Language' that allow applications to communicate with each other.

It does not matter if the application is PHP, HTML, Java, Visual Basic, C, ASP, ASP.NET, COBOL etc.

XML is cross platform and language independant.

A good example of XML use is XML Web Services.

XML Web Services are really neat.

Take a look at my site www.vbasic.net and play with some of the simple XML Web Services I have built.

Now, whats neat is you can use these Services right in your web page or application free of charge...All you have to do is reference my Web Service.

Your application calls the Web Service and my XML Web Service serves your application data in the form of XML.

From there you can do anything you want with it.

I could build a complete application with XML Web Services and just give my customer a 'Thin Client'.

All of the Classes, Properties and Methods (The guts of the program) would actually be on my server and would be accessed through XML Web Services.

So a program that is normally 20 megs is now reduced to less than a meg since the real application is on the server.

You can't compare XML with HTML.

They are used for 2 different things.

Hope this helps.

benthompson · 03-24-2003, 10:08 AM

XML is a great tool to send commands from applications to applications..

Darin · 03-24-2003, 10:10 AM

XML rocks. Sheesh, no comparison to html. Buy a book.

NineNine · 03-24-2003, 11:19 AM

XML is overrated. All it is is a format for sending (and idiots use it for storing) data. It's good if you don't know what in the hell kind of data you're dealing with because you can put descriptions of the data in it. But if you know what you're sending/receiving, lots of times it's better to use good ol' comma-delimited. XML = hype.

chupacabra · 03-24-2003, 11:26 AM

i'm not sure the adult industry was really effected in much of any way by the advent of XML, it does have many benefits for certain applications, but i'm not sure it has been used to further our arena that much... there probably are some cool things we could be doing w/ XML however..

lEricPl · 03-24-2003, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NineNine
XML is overrated. All it is is a format for sending (and idiots use it for storing) data. It's good if you don't know what in the hell kind of data you're dealing with because you can put descriptions of the data in it. But if you know what you're sending/receiving, lots of times it's better to use good ol' comma-delimited. XML = hype.

You can't be serious.

I can tell by your comments that you have not done much research.

Reading my above post might be a good start.

12clicks · 03-24-2003, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NineNine
XML is overrated. All it is is a format for sending (and idiots use it for storing) data. It's good if you don't know what in the hell kind of data you're dealing with because you can put descriptions of the data in it. But if you know what you're sending/receiving, lots of times it's better to use good ol' comma-delimited. XML = hype.

I know people making millions of dollars using xml. I wonder how much the people making fun of it are making.

lEricPl · 03-24-2003, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chupacabra
i'm not sure the adult industry was really effected in much of any way by the advent of XML, it does have many benefits for certain applications, but i'm not sure it has been used to further our arena that much... there probably are some cool things we could be doing w/ XML however..

No, but whether you know it or not all current MS desktop applications use XML.

In fact, in the future, most MS applications will be 'XML Web Services' based.

This ties in to their subscription based service they will be releasing in the next few years.

Anyway, lets say I wanted to build an application for a client and have them pay for it year by year while updating the application every month or so with new features. (Part of the contract)

Basically they will download a 'Thin Client' and pay for the use of the application for one year.

The guts of the application would reside on my Server while storing all local information on their local hard drive.

Now, how is this beneficial?

2 Large points:

1. No more Piracy (Since you can track each user by a unique User ID) (MS Passport)

2. Automatic updating of the application with no user interaction required.

Also, since XML is basically a text document, its fast.

The future of Web based and Desktop application is XML.

It's the perfect solution for application communication via the web.

chupacabra · 03-24-2003, 12:10 PM

Quote:

1. No more Piracy (Since you can track each user by a unique User ID) (MS Passport)

eric, thanks very much for the succienct breakdown of XML features, i didn't know that much about it. as for the piracy issue you mentioned however, i don't think that we could require that all of our users (on paysites) have MS passport, i don't even have one... many of the other points sound very interesting however, i've been meaning to look into some of the options XML offers for web-based content delivery... one thing i can say, many sites i've seen that were built w/ XML did seem very polished..

reynold · 03-24-2003, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

I know people making millions of dollars using xml. I wonder how much the people making fun of it are making.

I know people making billions with it.

lEricPl · 03-24-2003, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chupacabra

eric, thanks very much for the succienct breakdown of XML features, i didn't know that much about it. as for the piracy issue you mentioned however, i don't think that we could require that all of our users (on paysites) have MS passport, i don't even have one... many of the other points sound very interesting however, i've been meaning to look into some of the options XML offers for web-based content delivery... one thing i can say, many sites i've seen that were built w/ XML did seem very polished..

The MS Passport was just an example.

My clients would have a UID that they would register with me when they signed up.

Cogitator · 03-24-2003, 12:39 PM

Yeah, XML is just a format...unless you decide to use its data definition capabilities. Oh, and then there's that whole XSL thing that you can use with XML.

Sassyass · 03-24-2003, 12:59 PM

I've seen quite a few incorrect postings up there.....

go here
http://www.w3.org/XML/

|ERICP| you almost sounds like your talking about .NET in your posts, then making fun of other people. NineNine seemed to be closer to the ball on the reailty of what extensible Markup is all about. Not the idiot part or the jab, but what XML was designed to do.

TheFLY · 03-24-2003, 01:07 PM

Name one application that requires XML that you can't do in Perl...

OzKaNoz · 03-24-2003, 01:18 PM

XML rocks, pretty darn fast to.

Oz

Petr · 03-24-2003, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFLY
Name one application that requires XML that you can't do in Perl...

WAP pages on cellphones, for example

lEricPl · 03-24-2003, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sassyass
I've seen quite a few incorrect postings up there.....

go here
http://www.w3.org/XML/

|ERICP| you almost sounds like your talking about .NET in your posts, then making fun of other people. NineNine seemed to be closer to the ball on the reailty of what extensible Markup is all about. Not the idiot part or the jab, but what XML was designed to do.

Yes, I was talking about .NET and XML Web Services.

Was the question not asked:

"What can I do with XML? Gimme some examples of where it's being used."

Well, I just did.

lEricPl · 03-24-2003, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sassyass
I've seen quite a few incorrect postings up there.....

go here
http://www.w3.org/XML/

|ERICP| you almost sounds like your talking about .NET in your posts, then making fun of other people. NineNine seemed to be closer to the ball on the reailty of what extensible Markup is all about. Not the idiot part or the jab, but what XML was designed to do.

So you are saying:

1. XML is overrated.

2. All it is is a format for sending (and idiots use it for storing) data.

3. It's good if you don't know what in the hell kind of data you're dealing with because you can put descriptions of the data in it.

4. XML = hype.

So, XML is for 'idiots' storing data?

Tell me, oh Great one....

What can XML do?

Answer the question for the rest of us (Idiots).

"What can I do with XML? Gimme some examples of where it's being used."

NetRodent · 03-24-2003, 06:27 PM

XML is overhyped. That doesn't mean XML isn't very useful.

One great use for XML is storing complex data structures.

lEricPl · 03-24-2003, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sassyass
I've seen quite a few incorrect postings up there.....

go here
http://www.w3.org/XML/

|ERICP| you almost sounds like your talking about .NET in your posts, then making fun of other people. NineNine seemed to be closer to the ball on the reailty of what extensible Markup is all about. Not the idiot part or the jab, but what XML was designed to do.

How in the hell was I making fun of anyone?

Infact, XML Web Services are NOT a .NET technology.

Everything I said above can be done with other platforms too.

NineNine · 03-24-2003, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lEricPl

You can't be serious.

I can tell by your comments that you have not done much research.

Reading my above post might be a good start.

Hey jackass, I was a developer for years. I worked with XML for several years. I've worked with the MS and the Oracle XML parsers extensively. Clear text data transmission was around a LONG time before XML came on the scene. So, fuck off. I was probably doing development while you were in diapers.

lEricPl · 03-24-2003, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NineNine

Hey jackass, I was a developer for years. I worked with XML for several years. I've worked with the MS and the Oracle XML parsers extensively. Clear text data transmission was around a LONG time before XML came on the scene. So, fuck off. I was probably doing development while you were in diapers.

Feel Better do ya?

NineNine · 03-24-2003, 06:38 PM

Why in the fuck would I send data from one app to another as:
<XML>
<thisisdata>
<TimesIFuckedYourMother Time=today>
<5>
</TimesIFuckedYourMother>
</thisisdata>
</xml>

When I could just send it as:
5

That makes no sense. I know what I'm sending, and I know what I'm receiving. Hell, even if you have the nice little descriptors in XML, you still have to send/receive in some kind of agreed upon format.
If someone was expecting to receive:

<XML>
<thisisdata>
<TimesIFuckedYourMother>
<Daily>
<5>
</Daily>
</TimesIFuckedYourMother>
</thisisdata>
</xml>

It wouldn't work.

On top of that, you have a massive amount of descriptive data that you have to send (waste), and you also have the massive overhead of parsers. XML is, by and large, pretty fucking lame. Hell, I use W2K, but I'm not that much of a fucking sucker to believe every goddamned MS whitepaper that I read.

lEricPl · 03-24-2003, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NineNine
Why in the fuck would I send data from one app to another as:
<XML>
<thisisdata>
<TimesIFuckedYourMother Time=today>
<5>
</TimesIFuckedYourMother>
</thisisdata>
</xml>

When I could just send it as:
5

That makes no sense. I know what I'm sending, and I know what I'm receiving. Hell, even if you have the nice little descriptors in XML, you still have to send/receive in some kind of agreed upon format.
If someone was expecting to receive:

<XML>
<thisisdata>
<TimesIFuckedYourMother>
<Daily>
<5>
</Daily>
</TimesIFuckedYourMother>
</thisisdata>
</xml>

It wouldn't work.

On top of that, you have a massive amount of descriptive data that you have to send (waste), and you also have the massive overhead of parsers. XML is, by and large, pretty fucking lame. Hell, I use W2K, but I'm not that much of a fucking sucker to believe every goddamned MS whitepaper that I read.

Have you done any research on XML Web Services?

This might be a good place to start.

http://www.webservices.org/

lEricPl · 03-24-2003, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NineNine
Why in the fuck would I send data from one app to another as:
<XML>
<thisisdata>
<TimesIFuckedYourMother Time=today>
<5>
</TimesIFuckedYourMother>
</thisisdata>
</xml>

When I could just send it as:
5

That makes no sense. I know what I'm sending, and I know what I'm receiving. Hell, even if you have the nice little descriptors in XML, you still have to send/receive in some kind of agreed upon format.
If someone was expecting to receive:

<XML>
<thisisdata>
<TimesIFuckedYourMother>
<Daily>
<5>
</Daily>
</TimesIFuckedYourMother>
</thisisdata>
</xml>

It wouldn't work.

On top of that, you have a massive amount of descriptive data that you have to send (waste), and you also have the massive overhead of parsers. XML is, by and large, pretty fucking lame. Hell, I use W2K, but I'm not that much of a fucking sucker to believe every goddamned MS whitepaper that I read.

You said "I was a developer for years", and have been long before I was in diapers.

Good for you.

Most of the old fucking programmers I meet have no clue about the platforms of today. You sound like one of them.

XML Web Services are HEAVYLY pushed by Java and MS.

They are the future of development.

Do some research bud.

Let me know when you catch up to speed ya old fuck.

www.webservices.org

NineNine · 03-24-2003, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lEricPl

XML Web Services are HEAVYLY pushed by Java and MS.

They are the future of development.

Well, that must mean it's good. You're a fucking sheep. I use my fucking brain.

lEricPl · 03-24-2003, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NineNine

Well, that must mean it's good. You're a fucking sheep. I use my fucking brain.

HaHa!

Yeah, your SO much smarter than the 15,000 + Programmers MS and SUN have on staff.

Not sure how OLD you really are. If you don't croak in a few years, maybe you will be able to see the next generation of applications.

Let me know when you catch up to speed.

www.webservices.org

TheFLY · 03-24-2003, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NineNine

Well, that must mean it's good. You're a fucking sheep. I use my fucking brain.

Amen man... What ever happened to "tight" code?

These retarded languages are needed for large corporations with large budgets that need to plan for the future -- employee turnover! ...so when they layoff employees they can just hand the new guy an XML and Java book and say, "Read this" and pick up where the last guy left off... but you STILL have to agree that standardization is not HUMANE or as FAST or as EFFICIENT as unique people providing unique solutions for unique problems...

If you read the book Hackers, there's a chapter about Wozniak, I think the guy that invented the hardware for the first Apple computer... Anyway they talk about how these guys would etch circuit boards at home and how these first computer circuits patterns would begin to take on the unique personality of the designer...

There's something to be said for craftsmanship -- now you got a buch of automatons taking orders from Bill Gates... it's all like something out of a scary Isaac Asimov future.

TheFLY · 03-24-2003, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lEricPl

HaHa!

Yeah, your SO much smarter than the 15,000 + Programmers MS and SUN have on staff.

Not sure how OLD you really are. If you don't croak in a few years, maybe you will be able to see the next generation of applications.

Let me know when you catch up to speed.

www.webservices.org

Don't be so cocky. You are the Borg -- we are the fucking humans. Get over it.

Libertine · 03-24-2003, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lEricPl

HaHa!

Yeah, your SO much smarter than the 15,000 + Programmers MS and SUN have on staff.

That was a dumb remark, in many different ways.

03-24-2003, 06:51 AM	#1
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	I really don't get why all the hype about XML I've read a lot of articles claiming it's the next big thing, blah, blah blah....to me it just looks like an extension to HTML to make it more useful. If I'm wrong, please educate me. What can I do with XML? Gimme some examples of where it's being used. __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

03-24-2003, 09:56 AM	#2
lEricPl Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: FL Posts: 1,062	XML allows applications to communicate with each other. (Web Applications and Desktop Applications) XML is the 'Link' between applications. XML is basically a cross platform 'Language' that allow applications to communicate with each other. It does not matter if the application is PHP, HTML, Java, Visual Basic, C, ASP, ASP.NET, COBOL etc. XML is cross platform and language independant. A good example of XML use is XML Web Services. XML Web Services are really neat. Take a look at my site www.vbasic.net and play with some of the simple XML Web Services I have built. Now, whats neat is you can use these Services right in your web page or application free of charge...All you have to do is reference my Web Service. Your application calls the Web Service and my XML Web Service serves your application data in the form of XML. From there you can do anything you want with it. I could build a complete application with XML Web Services and just give my customer a 'Thin Client'. All of the Classes, Properties and Methods (The guts of the program) would actually be on my server and would be accessed through XML Web Services. So a program that is normally 20 megs is now reduced to less than a meg since the real application is on the server. You can't compare XML with HTML. They are used for 2 different things. Hope this helps. Last edited by lEricPl; 03-24-2003 at 10:06 AM..

03-24-2003, 10:08 AM	#3
benthompson Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 553	XML is a great tool to send commands from applications to applications.. __________________ No signature.. I am bored of the signatures aswell..

03-24-2003, 10:10 AM	#4
Darin Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 345	XML rocks. Sheesh, no comparison to html. Buy a book. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

03-24-2003, 12:39 PM	#13
Cogitator Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 672	Yeah, XML is just a format...unless you decide to use its data definition capabilities. Oh, and then there's that whole XSL thing that you can use with XML. __________________ - this space intentionally left blank -

03-24-2003, 11:19 AM	#5
NineNine So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 256	XML is overrated. All it is is a format for sending (and idiots use it for storing) data. It's good if you don't know what in the hell kind of data you're dealing with because you can put descriptions of the data in it. But if you know what you're sending/receiving, lots of times it's better to use good ol' comma-delimited. XML = hype.

03-24-2003, 11:26 AM	#6
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	i'm not sure the adult industry was really effected in much of any way by the advent of XML, it does have many benefits for certain applications, but i'm not sure it has been used to further our arena that much... there probably are some cool things we could be doing w/ XML however..

03-24-2003, 12:59 PM	#14
Sassyass Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,101	I've seen quite a few incorrect postings up there..... go here http://www.w3.org/XML/ \|ERICP\| you almost sounds like your talking about .NET in your posts, then making fun of other people. NineNine seemed to be closer to the ball on the reailty of what extensible Markup is all about. Not the idiot part or the jab, but what XML was designed to do.

03-24-2003, 01:07 PM	#15
TheFLY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: http://www.thefly.net/ --- Quit your job and live off steady traffic. Posts: 11,856	Name one application that requires XML that you can't do in Perl...

03-24-2003, 01:18 PM	#16
OzKaNoz Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Deep With In Your Mind Posts: 1,834	XML rocks, pretty darn fast to. Oz __________________ Techie Media Web Hosting

03-24-2003, 06:27 PM	#20
NetRodent Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In the walls of your house. Posts: 3,985	XML is overhyped. That doesn't mean XML isn't very useful. One great use for XML is storing complex data structures. __________________ "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." --H.L. Mencken

03-24-2003, 06:38 PM	#24
NineNine So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 256	Why in the fuck would I send data from one app to another as: <XML> <thisisdata> <TimesIFuckedYourMother Time=today> <5> </TimesIFuckedYourMother> </thisisdata> </xml> When I could just send it as: 5 That makes no sense. I know what I'm sending, and I know what I'm receiving. Hell, even if you have the nice little descriptors in XML, you still have to send/receive in some kind of agreed upon format. If someone was expecting to receive: <XML> <thisisdata> <TimesIFuckedYourMother> <Daily> <5> </Daily> </TimesIFuckedYourMother> </thisisdata> </xml> It wouldn't work. On top of that, you have a massive amount of descriptive data that you have to send (waste), and you also have the massive overhead of parsers. XML is, by and large, pretty fucking lame. Hell, I use W2K, but I'm not that much of a fucking sucker to believe every goddamned MS whitepaper that I read.