California to have a $15/hr minimum wage

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  • Barry-xlovecam
    It's 42
    • Jun 2010
    • 18083
    #1

    California to have a $15/hr minimum wage

    SACRAMENTO ? In votes that drew cheers from low-wage workers inside and outside the state Capitol on Thursday, Democrats swiftly pushed a bill through the Legislature to raise the state minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2022.

    Almost immediately, Gov. Jerry Brown announced he would sign it at a ceremony Monday in Los Angeles. The bill, SB3 by Sen. Mark Leno, D-San Francisco, drew opposition from Republicans ? not one of whom voted for it in the Senate or Assembly ? and business-group leaders who said it will force job cuts and higher prices for consumers.
    ... SB3 will increase the minimum wage to $10.50 an hour in 2017 and $11 in 2018; then it will go up an additional $1 an hour every year until reaching $15 in 2022. After that, it will be tied to the Consumer Price Index and rise up to 3.5 percent each year.

    Small businesses with 25 or fewer employees have an extra year, until 2023, to reach the $15 wage level. ...
    $15 minimum wage passes; Gov. Brown plans to sign - SFGate

    Silicon Valley is pleased to announce new AI greeter-bots for Walmart and automated hamburger flipping robots.

    We will see...
    Tags: None
    • galleryseek
      Confirmed User
      • Mar 2002
      • 8234
      #2
      They must really hate the minorities there..

      The Eugenics Plot of the Minimum Wage | Foundation for Economic Education

        Comment

        • Rochard
          Jägermeister Test Pilot
          • Dec 2001
          • 75733
          #3
          There has been a lot of discussion about this here locally.

          It doesn't raise the minimum wage to $15 right now, but it will take five or six years or something like that.

          I don't know how I feel about this. I think.... People need to be motivated to "do better". The entire point of the minimum wage is to give you the "bare minimum" you need to get by. It's not meant to raise a family on. It says "if you want to do better in life, work harder".
          Herschel Savage
          Brooklyn, NY

            Comment

            • kane
              Too lazy to set a custom title
              • Aug 2001
              • 20684
              #4
              I guess we will finally find out the truth about how this effects an economy. There have been small pockets of places raising minimum wages, but with this big state doing so it will be a good proving ground.

                Comment

                • L-Pink
                  working on my tan
                  • Mar 2005
                  • 39151
                  #5
                  Originally posted by Rochard
                  There has been a lot of discussion about this here locally.

                  It doesn't raise the minimum wage to $15 right now, but it will take five or six years or something like that.

                  I don't know how I feel about this. I think.... People need to be motivated to "do better". The entire point of the minimum wage is to give you the "bare minimum" you need to get by. It's not meant to raise a family on. It says "if you want to do better in life, work harder".
                  "Thumbs up"

                  .

                    Comment

                    • ErectMedia
                      Confirmed Chicago Pimp
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 7100
                      #6
                      Originally posted by Rochard
                      I don't know how I feel about this. I think.... People need to be motivated to "do better". The entire point of the minimum wage is to give you the "bare minimum" you need to get by. It's not meant to raise a family on. It says "if you want to do better in life, work harder".
                      Agreed, I worked at Burger King when I was a youngster and then jetted the fuck out for more money in auto mechanics. Never thought of Burger King as a career as be lucky to scrape 30k+ and who da fuck wants to bathe in grease all day besides acne. Need to be constantly looking for ways to improve yourself or be good enough that others recognize ya and offer a jump to something better. Minimum wage job wasn't meant to support 5 children from 4 dads, close your legs and go to night school part time instead of complaining ya can't get by.

                      Falls in line with the socialist everyone should make the same pay which would cause everyone to not give a fuck. Why go to college or learn a skill when a burger flipper makes the same as a doctor.

                        Comment

                        • TampaToker
                          Confirmed User
                          • May 2006
                          • 5828
                          #7
                          Originally posted by Rochard
                          There has been a lot of discussion about this here locally.

                          It doesn't raise the minimum wage to $15 right now, but it will take five or six years or something like that.

                          I don't know how I feel about this. I think.... People need to be motivated to "do better". The entire point of the minimum wage is to give you the "bare minimum" you need to get by. It's not meant to raise a family on. It says "if you want to do better in life, work harder".
                          lol minimum wage is 8.05 a hour before taxes in Florida. You think people can get by on $60.72 a day net? That's $15,743 a year a shit hole house in the ghetto with 800 square feet is going from$1000 a month and up. Even if you took the house for $1000 a month went to school full time to better yourself. You would be left with $311 a month left to buy food,pay electric,pay water,gas,car insurance. Good luck with that lol
                          Icq 247-742-205

                            Comment

                            • Grapesoda
                              So Fucking Banned
                              • Jul 2003
                              • 46238
                              #8
                              Originally posted by Rochard
                              There has been a lot of discussion about this here locally.

                              It doesn't raise the minimum wage to $15 right now, but it will take five or six years or something like that.

                              I don't know how I feel about this. I think.... People need to be motivated to "do better". The entire point of the minimum wage is to give you the "bare minimum" you need to get by. It's not meant to raise a family on. It says "if you want to do better in life, work harder".
                              oh stop it...

                                Comment

                                • Grapesoda
                                  So Fucking Banned
                                  • Jul 2003
                                  • 46238
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by kane
                                  I guess we will finally find out the truth about how this effects an economy. There have been small pockets of places raising minimum wages, but with this big state doing so it will be a good proving ground.
                                  California has proved all kinds of stupid shit cally proved you can push a billion dollar industry out, actually TWO fucking HUGE industries out of the state... cally proved you can ruin an ecosystem/farming system by watering fish. cally has proved that cally needs a trillion dollar highspeed rail from nowhere to nowhere.. now you think cally will sort out minimum wage

                                    Comment

                                    • kane
                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                      • Aug 2001
                                      • 20684
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                      California has proved all kinds of stupid shit cally proved you can push a billion dollar industry out, actually TWO fucking HUGE industries out of the state... cally proved you can ruin an ecosystem/farming system by watering fish. cally has proved that cally needs a trillion dollar highspeed rail from nowhere to nowhere.. now you think cally will sort out minimum wage
                                      I never said they will solve the problem, but they will let us see how it works. Once the minimum wage is at $15 we will get hard and fast data. Does it destroy jobs? Does it drive companies out of the state and to other places? Does it actually help those that get it or does cost of living rise with it and it becomes a zero sum game? We will finally see on a large scale just what happens. No more theories or opinions, this will give us some facts.

                                        Comment

                                        • ianmoone332000
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Jun 2014
                                          • 1706
                                          #11
                                          The UKs minimum wage went up 50p today and is now £7.20/$10.23. It will hit £9.00/$12.79 by 2020. Its good for low skilled workers but will attract even more immigrants from poor countries
                                          Still the best money making live cam site in the world

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                                            • BlackCrayon
                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                              • Jun 2003
                                              • 19634
                                              #12
                                              dumb. minimum wage is something you should move on from once you hit 20 years old.
                                              you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

                                                Comment

                                                • woj
                                                  <&(©¿©)&>
                                                  • Jul 2002
                                                  • 47882
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by TampaToker
                                                  lol minimum wage is 8.05 a hour before taxes in Florida. You think people can get by on $60.72 a day net? That's $15,743 a year a shit hole house in the ghetto with 800 square feet is going from$1000 a month and up. Even if you took the house for $1000 a month went to school full time to better yourself. You would be left with $311 a month left to buy food,pay electric,pay water,gas,car insurance. Good luck with that lol
                                                  at least 2 people can live in a house... so more realistic cost is $500/month per person... apartment is probably another $100-$200 cheaper... so figure $400/month for housing... so you are left with ~$900/month... there is no food expense, as you would qualify for "food stamps"... so you have $900/month for misc expenses, which isn't that bad, considering it's supposed to be low end starting point...
                                                  Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000
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                                                    • Magnetron
                                                      Lord High Groundhog
                                                      • Jun 2013
                                                      • 1841
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by Rochard
                                                      There has been a lot of discussion about this here locally.

                                                      It doesn't raise the minimum wage to $15 right now, but it will take five or six years or something like that.

                                                      I don't know how I feel about this. I think.... People need to be motivated to "do better". The entire point of the minimum wage is to give you the "bare minimum" you need to get by. It's not meant to raise a family on. It says "if you want to do better in life, work harder".
                                                      The entire point of the minimum wage is the least amount allowed by the law you can pay employees.

                                                      However, there is no law that dictates you must give your employees any raises.

                                                      Raises are incentive for employees to stay on with a company.

                                                      Don't promise any raises and your problem is solved.
                                                      .
                                                      Approach the mirrored reflection saying his name three times : "Butcher .... Butcher .... Butcher ....."
                                                      and wait to see if this Bogeyman urban legend manifests in the background, looming over shoulder
                                                      While your neighbors were busy killing off everyone in the neighborhood
                                                      with your own butcher knife in hand concealed behind your back
                                                      you stood for
                                                      ever before the window saying
                                                      nothing

                                                        Comment

                                                        • beavr
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • Sep 2015
                                                          • 563
                                                          #15
                                                          Capitalism doesn't work that way. If the person doesn't work enough to get paid $15/h it will damage the economy to get it by some ruling.
                                                          VR porn is SexLikeReal.

                                                          Big money in VR porn those days

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                                                            • crockett
                                                              in a van by the river
                                                              • May 2003
                                                              • 76818
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by Rochard
                                                              There has been a lot of discussion about this here locally.

                                                              It doesn't raise the minimum wage to $15 right now, but it will take five or six years or something like that.

                                                              I don't know how I feel about this. I think.... People need to be motivated to "do better". The entire point of the minimum wage is to give you the "bare minimum" you need to get by. It's not meant to raise a family on. It says "if you want to do better in life, work harder".
                                                              The problem with that, is many big companies abuse tje min wage system. Think walmart and fast food for example. Their entire profit margin is built on paying min wage with 5 cent raises and pushing their employees onto welfare.

                                                              Ie they use tax payers money to subsidize paying low wages. Lots of companies do this and it's why min wage has become the fighting point..


                                                              Also min wage isn't enough to live on in most places if it had kept up with inflation, it would of already been $15.
                                                              In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Paul Markham
                                                                  Too old to care
                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                  • 52942
                                                                  #17
                                                                  As more get poorer they will realise that voting for the people who give them more is the best way. If jobs disappear it will be the politicians who raise benefits.

                                                                  The rich learnt it a long while ago and have bought politicians to make their argument win. And boy did they win.

                                                                  As for the argument about moving up and getting a good job. Try it when your jobs are done by someone who asks for a third of what you demand.



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                                                                    • Paul Markham
                                                                      Too old to care
                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                      • 52942
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by crockett
                                                                      Think Walmart and fast food for example.
                                                                      We know how well Walmart and the fast food industry have done by paying the minimum wage.

                                                                      The bottom 50 percentile haven't seen a wage rise in decades. They're often the first to be laid off and stay unemployed. Not for a lack of effort, it's for a lack of jobs that pay a decent wage.



                                                                      Once the poor realise that voting for those who will fuck them over is dangerous. There will be huge changes. To the Left. This is why Trump is proving so popular with the poor.



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                                                                        • Barry-xlovecam
                                                                          It's 42
                                                                          • Jun 2010
                                                                          • 18083
                                                                          #19
                                                                          A small step for man but a giant leap for Robotkind ...

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                                                                            • fuzebox
                                                                              making it rain
                                                                              • Oct 2003
                                                                              • 22352
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Every time I mention that minimum wage jobs are for teenagers on our local news site/fb group, I get hella flamed by tons of people

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • woj
                                                                                  <&(©¿©)&>
                                                                                  • Jul 2002
                                                                                  • 47882
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by fuzebox
                                                                                  Every time I mention that minimum wage jobs are for teenagers on our local news site/fb group, I get hella flamed by tons of people
                                                                                  gfy isn't really any different, you can the count number of people on here that agree with that viewpoint on one hand..
                                                                                  Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000
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                                                                                    • Paul Markham
                                                                                      Too old to care
                                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                                      • 52942
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam
                                                                                      A small step for man but a giant leap for Robotkind ...

                                                                                      Then those who used to work in MacDonalds will vote for the party that raises benefits.

                                                                                      Every time I mention that minimum wage jobs are for teenagers on our local news site/fb group, I get hella flamed by tons of people
                                                                                      Then pass an amendment that teens don't apply and there will be no problems as all the over 20s have a long list of well-paid jobs to fill.




                                                                                      Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
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                                                                                        • MiamiBoyz
                                                                                          fgfdftre6
                                                                                          • Oct 2012
                                                                                          • 6690
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by BlackCrayon
                                                                                          dumb. minimum wage is something you should move on from once you hit 20 years old.
                                                                                          Actually it has nothing to do with age and is only related to the job itself.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • woj
                                                                                              <&(©¿©)&>
                                                                                              • Jul 2002
                                                                                              • 47882
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by Paul Markham
                                                                                              Then pass an amendment that teens don't apply and there will be no problems as all the over 20s have a long list of well-paid jobs to fill.
                                                                                              Yea, but then only teenagers would have minimum wage jobs? cause what idiot would pay an adult $15/hr, when they can pay someone younger but equally qualified half that?
                                                                                              Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000
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                                                                                                • MiamiBoyz
                                                                                                  fgfdftre6
                                                                                                  • Oct 2012
                                                                                                  • 6690
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Anyway, I just was at the Target here in West Hollywood and they are at this very moment installing those self checkout machines.

                                                                                                  I had noticed that right after christmas they cut down the checkers to only 4 even at peak times and the lines were becoming terrible.

                                                                                                  Sign of the times my friends.

                                                                                                  The minimum wage increases and jobs decrease as a result.

                                                                                                  Well played California!

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • woj
                                                                                                      <&(©¿©)&>
                                                                                                      • Jul 2002
                                                                                                      • 47882
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by MiamiBoyz
                                                                                                      The minimum wage increases and jobs decrease as a result.
                                                                                                      higher minimum wages (and other laws that increase employer's labor costs) are the CAUSE... not the result... if someone brings in $10/hr of value to an employer, and suddenly the employer is forced to pay $11/hr...

                                                                                                      that person will become unemployed, cause only an idiot will ever pay $11/hr for a job that is worth $10/hr...
                                                                                                      Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000
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                                                                                                        • Rochard
                                                                                                          Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                                                                                          • Dec 2001
                                                                                                          • 75733
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          I believe New York just passed a similar law, raising minimum wage up to $15.....
                                                                                                          Herschel Savage
                                                                                                          Brooklyn, NY

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • Barry-xlovecam
                                                                                                              It's 42
                                                                                                              • Jun 2010
                                                                                                              • 18083
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              GM, Ford use 'veiled threat' of imports to gain leverage with UAW
                                                                                                              Labor costs

                                                                                                              In the U.S., veteran UAW workers make $28 an hour and new hires, known as Tier 2, start at $15.78. The UAW wants a raise for the veterans, who haven?t had one in almost 10 years, and would like to either eliminate the lower-tier pay scale or get those members a wage increase as well.

                                                                                                              Autoworkers make $8.24 an hour in Mexico and $4.10 in China, according to Center for Automotive Research data.

                                                                                                              Ford?s average U.S. labor cost, including benefits, is about $57 an hour, $10 more than at the U.S. operations of Fiat Chrysler or Toyota Motor Corp., according to the research center. GM?s average is $55 an hour.
                                                                                                              So, a burger flipper or a greeter at Wal-Mart will be of equal value as a starting 'Tier 2' auto-line worker?



                                                                                                              After Taxpayer Bailout, General Motors Plans Rollout Of Chinese-Built Buicks In America - Breitbart

                                                                                                              In 2016, General Motors will roll out for the first time in the United States a new model of Buick built exclusively in China: the Buick Envision.

                                                                                                              It?s the first time the iconic American auto manufacturer will sell cars built in China in the United States since receiving a sizable taxpayer-funded bailout at the end of the George W. Bush administration and beginning of the Barack Obama administration.

                                                                                                              The Buick Envision?which was available in China for purchase as far back as 2014?will make its official debut in the United States in the summer of 2016.

                                                                                                              The Buick Envision bills itself ?a luxury crossover designed to turn heads and welcome you in.?

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • Dvae
                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                  • Feb 2005
                                                                                                                  • 5326
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Why $15?
                                                                                                                  ...why not $25?
                                                                                                                  .
                                                                                                                  .

                                                                                                                  Arguing with a troll is a lot like wrestling in the mud with a pig, after a couple of hours you realize the pig likes it.

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                                                                                                                    • MaDalton
                                                                                                                      I am Amazing Content!
                                                                                                                      • Feb 2004
                                                                                                                      • 39861
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by woj
                                                                                                                      at least 2 people can live in a house... so more realistic cost is $500/month per person... apartment is probably another $100-$200 cheaper... so figure $400/month for housing... so you are left with ~$900/month... there is no food expense, as you would qualify for "food stamps"... so you have $900/month for misc expenses, which isn't that bad, considering it's supposed to be low end starting point...
                                                                                                                      and here we have the insanity that i don't understand

                                                                                                                      why should the tax payer subsidize employers that pay a shitty wage?

                                                                                                                      why the fuck should my taxes - as somebody that employs people and pays above average - be used so that other employers can pay shit and also gain a competitive advantage against those that pay a wage people can actually live from?

                                                                                                                      fuck that
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                                                                                                                        • MaDalton
                                                                                                                          I am Amazing Content!
                                                                                                                          • Feb 2004
                                                                                                                          • 39861
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          and for fucks sake: Germany introduced a minimum wage of 8.50 € per hour something like 1.5 years ago and unemployment just hit a record LOW for 25 years or so
                                                                                                                          AmazingContent.com - providing only the best content and service since 2003
                                                                                                                          Monetize your content on Veegaz.com - one of Germanies largest VOD sites
                                                                                                                          Got German traffic? We convert it into money for you!
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                                                                                                                            • nico-t
                                                                                                                              emperor of my world
                                                                                                                              • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                              • 29903
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Originally posted by MaDalton
                                                                                                                              and for fucks sake: Germany introduced a minimum wage of 8.50 ? per hour something like 1.5 years ago and unemployment just hit a record LOW for 25 years or so
                                                                                                                              that's why....



                                                                                                                              ... which brings in low wage workers which makes this guy happy....


                                                                                                                              ... and this is just collateral damage...



                                                                                                                              Great success!!!

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                                                                                                                                • noshit
                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                  • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                                  • 1582
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Rochard
                                                                                                                                  I don't know how I feel about this. I think.... People need to be motivated to "do better". The entire point of the minimum wage is to give you the "bare minimum" you need to get by. It's not meant to raise a family on. It says "if you want to do better in life, work harder".
                                                                                                                                  If you as a job hunter want to take a $5-an-hour job offered by a prospective employer who sees that as the value of the job, why should that be against the law?
                                                                                                                                  Moreover, to the extent that increased minimums raise the cost of hiring low-productivity workers, fewer of those workers will be employed.
                                                                                                                                  ...OH and nobody gives a Fuck How You 'Feel'

                                                                                                                                  .

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • woj
                                                                                                                                      <&(©¿©)&>
                                                                                                                                      • Jul 2002
                                                                                                                                      • 47882
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by MaDalton
                                                                                                                                      and here we have the insanity that i don't understand

                                                                                                                                      why should the tax payer subsidize employers that pay a shitty wage?

                                                                                                                                      why the fuck should my taxes - as somebody that employs people and pays above average - be used so that other employers can pay shit and also gain a competitive advantage against those that pay a wage people can actually live from?

                                                                                                                                      fuck that
                                                                                                                                      I have no idea where you guys got the "subsidize" idea from...

                                                                                                                                      the facts are:
                                                                                                                                      - there is an employer willing to pay for example $7/hr for some job...
                                                                                                                                      - there is an employee willing to work for $7/hr
                                                                                                                                      - normally these 2 people would work together and both would be better off as a result

                                                                                                                                      but now, the government makes this transaction illegal, and so it doesn't happen...
                                                                                                                                      - employee is out of a job, stays home and sucks on government teat for some unemployment benefits...
                                                                                                                                      - employer can't grow his business...
                                                                                                                                      - government/tax payers incurs additional cost of paying unemployment benefits...

                                                                                                                                      so all 3 parties are worse off...
                                                                                                                                      Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000
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                                                                                                                                        • kane
                                                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                          • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                                          • 20684
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by woj
                                                                                                                                          I have no idea where you guys got the "subsidize" idea from...

                                                                                                                                          the facts are:
                                                                                                                                          - there is an employer willing to pay for example $7/hr for some job...
                                                                                                                                          - there is an employee willing to work for $7/hr
                                                                                                                                          - normally these 2 people would work together and both would be better off as a result

                                                                                                                                          but now, the government makes this transaction illegal, and so it doesn't happen...
                                                                                                                                          - employee is out of a job, stays home and sucks on government teat for some unemployment benefits...
                                                                                                                                          - employer can't grow his business...
                                                                                                                                          - government/tax payers incurs additional cost of paying unemployment benefits...

                                                                                                                                          so all 3 parties are worse off...
                                                                                                                                          The subsidizing is very simple. McDonald's actually has things in their employee handbook that encourage employees to sign up for government programs like food stamps and help with childcare. They also have people that work for them that will help you out with this process.

                                                                                                                                          So, let's say Jane the average young woman gets herself knocked up and has a kid. She then gets a job at McDonald's. She can't raise that kid on that wage so she signs up for various government assistance programs. She is likely going to qualify for most of these assistance programs. So now she is getting food stamps, help paying for daycare, reduced rent and potentially other things like free health insurance. With the benefits she is likely going to be able to live a lifestyle of someone making $12-$15 per hour or more as opposed to $7.25 per hour.

                                                                                                                                          If she were to take a different job where she could jump up to say $9 an hour she very well may no longer qualify for all these assistance programs so she doesn't she stays at McDonald's which benefits from having an employee that has been there a while, knows how things work and is (hopefully) reliable which is better for them than having to go through the cost of hiring and training new people.

                                                                                                                                          The definition of subsidize is: to aid or promote (as a private enterprise) with public money <subsidize soybean farmers> <subsidize public transportation>. This is exactly what is going on here. If there were no government assistance programs people would likely strike, unionize or at the very least demand more money and I think companies that generally pay minimum wage would be forced to raise their wages, but because these programs exists companies can pay less if there are complaints they can show their employees how to suckle from the government teat.

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • Grapesoda
                                                                                                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                              • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                                              • 46238
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by kane
                                                                                                                                              I never said they will solve the problem, but they will let us see how it works. Once the minimum wage is at $15 we will get hard and fast data. Does it destroy jobs? Does it drive companies out of the state and to other places? Does it actually help those that get it or does cost of living rise with it and it becomes a zero sum game? We will finally see on a large scale just what happens. No more theories or opinions, this will give us some facts.
                                                                                                                                              thought there were other test kitchens on this?

                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                • Grapesoda
                                                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                  • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                                                  • 46238
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by MiamiBoyz
                                                                                                                                                  Anyway, I just was at the Target here in West Hollywood and they are at this very moment installing those self checkout machines.

                                                                                                                                                  I had noticed that right after christmas they cut down the checkers to only 4 even at peak times and the lines were becoming terrible.

                                                                                                                                                  Sign of the times my friends.

                                                                                                                                                  The minimum wage increases and jobs decrease as a result.

                                                                                                                                                  Well played California!
                                                                                                                                                  they tried that at the Jack in the Box in my area... one of those push button screens with icons stations.. .. pulled it back out... no one would use it

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • kane
                                                                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                      • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                                                      • 20684
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                                                                                                                                      thought there were other test kitchens on this?
                                                                                                                                                      There have been, but it has been on a much smaller scale. For example in Washington the city of Seattle recently passed a law that the minimum wage in Seattle will go up to $15. It's a nice little test, but Seattle is a rich city and it is surrounded by a lot of smaller cities so a lot of people can live in the surrounding areas where it is cheaper and commute into town for the higher wages.

                                                                                                                                                      This is the first time an entire state is going to raise the minimum wage so if a business wants to avoid paying it they can't just move a few miles away to the next city, they will have to leave the state. Also being a big state that has a lot of legal and illegal immigration I am interested in seeing how it affects that.

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • ITraffic
                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                          • Jul 2013
                                                                                                                                                          • 2725
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          seattle didn't collapse, neither will california.

                                                                                                                                                          the neoliberal experiment over the last 40 years was a complete failure.

                                                                                                                                                          i know you all have been beaten by life but life is too short to react like a wounded animal all the time.

                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                            • woj
                                                                                                                                                              <&(©¿©)&>
                                                                                                                                                              • Jul 2002
                                                                                                                                                              • 47882
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by kane
                                                                                                                                                              The subsidizing is very simple. McDonald's actually has things in their employee handbook that encourage employees to sign up for government programs like food stamps and help with childcare. They also have people that work for them that will help you out with this process.

                                                                                                                                                              So, let's say Jane the average young woman gets herself knocked up and has a kid. She then gets a job at McDonald's. She can't raise that kid on that wage so she signs up for various government assistance programs. She is likely going to qualify for most of these assistance programs. So now she is getting food stamps, help paying for daycare, reduced rent and potentially other things like free health insurance. With the benefits she is likely going to be able to live a lifestyle of someone making $12-$15 per hour or more as opposed to $7.25 per hour.

                                                                                                                                                              If she were to take a different job where she could jump up to say $9 an hour she very well may no longer qualify for all these assistance programs so she doesn't she stays at McDonald's which benefits from having an employee that has been there a while, knows how things work and is (hopefully) reliable which is better for them than having to go through the cost of hiring and training new people.

                                                                                                                                                              The definition of subsidize is: to aid or promote (as a private enterprise) with public money <subsidize soybean farmers> <subsidize public transportation>. This is exactly what is going on here. If there were no government assistance programs people would likely strike, unionize or at the very least demand more money and I think companies that generally pay minimum wage would be forced to raise their wages, but because these programs exists companies can pay less if there are complaints they can show their employees how to suckle from the government teat.
                                                                                                                                                              I don't see how raising minimum wage to $15/hr resolves this in any way... you are making an assumption that she gets $15/hr and so no longer needs government assistance?

                                                                                                                                                              but that's only if she keeps her job, or even gets one in the first place... and that's a big IF...

                                                                                                                                                              for example, your Jane is lets say 18 years old, straight out of high school, knocked up like you said... with zero experience... and wants to work at McDonalds? do you think McDonalds will hire her for $15/hr or would they rather hire some 20 year old who already has some fast food experience and doesn't have a kid (=more reliable), etc? or perhaps they will buy a self checkout machine? or setup a call center to take orders in another state?

                                                                                                                                                              also, at $15/hr there will suddenly be more people interested in work, all the housewives for example who couldn't be bothered to work for $7/hr, at $15/hr will enter the work force... so there will be fierce competition and so the bar for getting a job will be raised...

                                                                                                                                                              so, chances that your "Jane" will end up with a job, are pretty slim... and so, as a result, the cost to taxpayer will be even higher than before...
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                                                                                                                                                                • arock10
                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                  • Jan 2006
                                                                                                                                                                  • 6217
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  Either way there is going to be massive unemployment in the future as robots run more and more things and we really just don't need the people to work. At some point it'll be nice not to blame them and actually just focus on solving the problem
                                                                                                                                                                  Sup

                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                    • kane
                                                                                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                      • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                                                                      • 20684
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by woj
                                                                                                                                                                      I don't see how raising minimum wage to $15/hr resolves this in any way... you are making an assumption that she gets $15/hr and so no longer needs government assistance?

                                                                                                                                                                      but that's only if she keeps her job, or even gets one in the first place... and that's a big IF...

                                                                                                                                                                      for example, your Jane is lets say 18 years old, straight out of high school, knocked up like you said... with zero experience... and wants to work at McDonalds? do you think McDonalds will hire her for $15/hr or would they rather hire some 20 year old who already has some fast food experience and doesn't have a kid (=more reliable), etc? or perhaps they will buy a self checkout machine? or setup a call center to take orders in another state?

                                                                                                                                                                      also, at $15/hr there will suddenly be more people interested in work, all the housewives for example who couldn't be bothered to work for $7/hr, at $15/hr will enter the work force... so there will be fierce competition and so the bar for getting a job will be raised...

                                                                                                                                                                      so, chances that your "Jane" will end up with a job, are pretty slim... and so, as a result, the cost to taxpayer will be even higher than before...
                                                                                                                                                                      While I agree with much of what you say, it is a different scenario than what I suggested above. I suggested that government programs are being promoted by companies as a way to subsidize their low pay. In your scenario this person can't get a job to begin with and is getting government assistance.

                                                                                                                                                                      In theory, if she gets and/or keeps the job and can make $15 she will no longer need (or likely qualify) for government assistance so she can get off of it. Of course, this all depends on how the raise affects the economy. If the cost of living skyrockets as a result of it then she won't be any better off. We will soon be finding out just how it works out.

                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                        • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                                          Too old to care
                                                                                                                                                                          • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                          • 52942
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by woj
                                                                                                                                                                          Yea, but then only teenagers would have minimum wage jobs? cause what idiot would pay an adult $15/hr, when they can pay someone younger but equally qualified half that?
                                                                                                                                                                          You missed the sarcasm. Minimum wage is about the job not the age.



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                                                                                                                                                                            • Sunny Day
                                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                              • Dec 2010
                                                                                                                                                                              • 1406
                                                                                                                                                                              #44
                                                                                                                                                                              Wages

                                                                                                                                                                              The county just south of mine is so wealthy that 15 years ago, the starting salary at McD's was $9 an hour + medical, dental & 401K. For kids in high school who could work 20 hours a week.
                                                                                                                                                                              That same time, my son went to work at a movie theatre for $5.25 an hour. I asked him why. He said no way he'd work fast food. Don't think he's lazy. The VP of the company, an original of the founding brothers came out the the theatre to see my son. Said it was the only the second time he had done this. Said he would be instantly be promoted to asst. manager, but he was only 17. Company policy, said you must be 18. But they loved his work ethic. He unofficially supervised the managers.
                                                                                                                                                                              But he was living at home.

                                                                                                                                                                              I had a friend that moved to rural Indiana and need to supplement his Social security. 1, that's right 1 job, in 50 miles, opened up at a Burger King. $5.25 an hour. 300+ people lined up for this job. All adults. there were no other jobs to be had. There was a pharma company paying good wages. And a 20 year waiting list to get hired.

                                                                                                                                                                              Minimum wage jobs are only for kids is a myth. Many of my friends are 50+ and if they lose their good job, they know no one will hire them, no matter how good they are. A good portion of that is under current health care, they could raise a company's overall medical insurance costs.

                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                                                  Too old to care
                                                                                                                                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                  • 52942
                                                                                                                                                                                  #45
                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by woj
                                                                                                                                                                                  higher minimum wages (and other laws that increase employer's labor costs) are the CAUSE... not the result... if someone brings in $10/hr of value to an employer, and suddenly the employer is forced to pay $11/hr...

                                                                                                                                                                                  that person will become unemployed, cause only an idiot will ever pay $11/hr for a job that is worth $10/hr...

                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam
                                                                                                                                                                                  GM, Ford use 'veiled threat' of imports to gain leverage with UAW


                                                                                                                                                                                  So, a burger flipper or a greeter at Wal-Mart will be of equal value as a starting 'Tier 2' auto-line worker?



                                                                                                                                                                                  After Taxpayer Bailout, General Motors Plans Rollout Of Chinese-Built Buicks In America - Breitbart
                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by nico-t
                                                                                                                                                                                  that's why....



                                                                                                                                                                                  ... which brings in low wage workers which makes this guy happy....


                                                                                                                                                                                  ... and this is just collateral damage...



                                                                                                                                                                                  Great success!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                  Proof of why capitalism, without controls, doesn't work for the majority.

                                                                                                                                                                                  If employers are allowed to set wages, move offshore and have a never ending supply of job applicants. Wages will drop and drop. Until the voters realise voting in a Government that will subsidise them is the only alternative. Whart is inevitable is the old style Republican Party is dying.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Will Trump voters vote for Cruz?



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                                                                                                                                                                                    • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                                                      Too old to care
                                                                                                                                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 52942
                                                                                                                                                                                      #46
                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by MaDalton
                                                                                                                                                                                      and here we have the insanity that i don't understand

                                                                                                                                                                                      why should the tax payer subsidize employers that pay a shitty wage?

                                                                                                                                                                                      why the fuck should my taxes - as somebody that employs people and pays above average - be used so that other employers can pay shit and also gain a competitive advantage against those that pay a wage people can actually live from?

                                                                                                                                                                                      fuck that
                                                                                                                                                                                      Because it's inevitable. Germany is doing better than most. Still with jobs going to Czech, Poland, Hungary and the Far East, the only jobs left are low paid that have to be subsidised. We have built up China at the expense of Europe.

                                                                                                                                                                                      The latest fiasco is Defiant China slaps steel tariffs on Britain as trade war looms 



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                                                                                                                                                                                        • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                                                          Too old to care
                                                                                                                                                                                          • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 52942
                                                                                                                                                                                          #47
                                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by arock10
                                                                                                                                                                                          Either way there is going to be massive unemployment in the future as robots run more and more things and we really just don't need the people to work. At some point it'll be nice not to blame them and actually just focus on solving the problem
                                                                                                                                                                                          Not until we wakw up and realise the damage that's being done to make the top 5% very rich.



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                                                                                                                                                                                            • MFCT
                                                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                              • Jan 2015
                                                                                                                                                                                              • 1489
                                                                                                                                                                                              #48
                                                                                                                                                                                              Good for them. But what's the catch?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Let me guess. It only applies to illegals and refugees, right? Everyone else gets paid the actual minimum wage. Gotta be April Fools.
                                                                                                                                                                                              Keeping you abreast of the teens that get undressed.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                • kane
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • 20684
                                                                                                                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Sunny Day
                                                                                                                                                                                                  The county just south of mine is so wealthy that 15 years ago, the starting salary at McD's was $9 an hour + medical, dental & 401K. For kids in high school who could work 20 hours a week.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  That same time, my son went to work at a movie theatre for $5.25 an hour. I asked him why. He said no way he'd work fast food. Don't think he's lazy. The VP of the company, an original of the founding brothers came out the the theatre to see my son. Said it was the only the second time he had done this. Said he would be instantly be promoted to asst. manager, but he was only 17. Company policy, said you must be 18. But they loved his work ethic. He unofficially supervised the managers.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  But he was living at home.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I had a friend that moved to rural Indiana and need to supplement his Social security. 1, that's right 1 job, in 50 miles, opened up at a Burger King. $5.25 an hour. 300+ people lined up for this job. All adults. there were no other jobs to be had. There was a pharma company paying good wages. And a 20 year waiting list to get hired.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Minimum wage jobs are only for kids is a myth. Many of my friends are 50+ and if they lose their good job, they know no one will hire them, no matter how good they are. A good portion of that is under current health care, they could raise a company's overall medical insurance costs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  One of the main problems the US economy is having is what type of jobs are being created. 60% of the jobs created these days pay $12 an hour or less where before the recession 60% of the jobs created paid between $13-$25 an hour. The middle class jobs simply are not being created which is one of the reasons the unemployment rate is dropping, but a ton of people are still on food stamps and other assistance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Add into it the fact that the baby boomer lost a lot during the recession so many of them no longer retiring and it makes it a lot more difficult to move up the income ladder than before.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I went to the McDonald's in my town about a 2 weeks ago for lunch. I would say at least half the people working there were adults. Not elderly people, but people that looked to be in their 30's and 40's.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                    • klinton
                                                                                                                                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • 8766
                                                                                                                                                                                                      #50
                                                                                                                                                                                                      While I agree with you on some points...And I understand that maybe 1/3 of "refugees" that come to Europe are actually from war conflict zones...And while i also understand that letting in milions of people WITHOUT ANY CHECK on them and without their registration..is not a wise thing at all....I would like to ask you...What is your compassion level ? What would you do if you would be on these guys place ?



                                                                                                                                                                                                      what is your compassion level ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Do you live in some in/near some rotten ghetto in Rotterdam to totally hate everything that is not dutch ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Would you stay in "migrants camp" in Turkey or would you rather try your luck to live with some hope and dignity?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      "democracy for whole world " !
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by nico-t
                                                                                                                                                                                                      that's why....



                                                                                                                                                                                                      ... which brings in low wage workers which makes this guy happy....


                                                                                                                                                                                                      ... and this is just collateral damage...



                                                                                                                                                                                                      Great success!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

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