The united states just had its warmest winter ever

Fucking Big Oil

I hope President Obama gets on his solar powered Air Force One and flies to Big Oil's hometown and rides over in his solar powered limousine with the 30 solar powered SUVS that always accompany his motorcade and gives them a stern talking to.

Robbie: It's SCIENCE CLASS you should have been paying attention in.

Of course the earth's temperature has risen and fallen. The point is that in the past it went up and down naturally due to forces outside of anyone's control, and did so over millions of years. Today though it is rising because of forces within our control. Even worse, the rise in temperature is happening a lot faster, and the effects of this will be a disaster possibly experienced by you and me, but definitely experienced by our kids and grand kids, unless we do something today.

It's very simple Robbie. The cost of a litre of gas does not include the cost of damage to the environment and illness it causes people. The cost of a kilogram of hamburger meat does not include the cost of environmental damage done by factory farming.

The cost of the damage is showing up in other places. It is showing up in extreme temperatures, extreme weather, coastal flooding, and the death of the oceans. It's showing up in higher medical costs, and more people getting sick.

Take your head out of the sand. Scientists everywhere are raising the alarm bells, but again, you the great Robbie, have convinced yourself that you know better than all of them. Very sad.

It doesn't. We are just going to go further and further into the rabbit hole until the shit hits the fan. There are going to be a lot of bankrupt countries with inadequate energy supply and a lot of pissed off people. And all for nothing.


Well, they did grow grapes in England during the Roman times.



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Wow! What a bunch of regurgitated tripe and nonsense. Why don't you just stand on a street corner with a sign hanging over your shoulders that reads "the end is near"?



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My heating gas and related electricity use was down 20% so I put 20% less CO2 (carbon) in the air -- ain't life great!

self healing spiral down?

Is this one of the methods by which you wish to "control" the environment?

Delaying future sea-level rise by storing water in Antarctica

You people are certifiably nuts and you need to be stopped before you actually destroy the planet while trying to "save" it.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."



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holy shit i almost spit out my coffee.

I have a buddy like this, the second he realizes he can't keep up with the conversation. It always boils back to his imaginary points how he "cares" so much about mankind and the world more than everyone else.

Hi Eon,

By control, I mean it is we humans that are causing the rise in the temperature. And by control, I mean because it is within our power to to stop it from happening.


I'm sure you care as much as your friend does and I do. What I'm attempting to do is have a serious conversation on the subject. It's not necessary to get emotional or political even.

Think about it like this. Everyone on GFY uses impressive technology to run their businesses, technology that was unheard of 25 years ago. To our parents and grandparents, we might all be seen as tech wizards or at least, pretty dam smart. The science on climate change including all of its data is here at our fingertips. Surely a bunch of smart people like you and me that care about the planet, like you and me, can discuss the issue, no?

Hey Robby:

I have a question for you.

When your car burns gas, where do you think the exhaust goes?

Ya, they supposedly care about people and the environment more than everyone else but they don't seem to care when:
- granny can no longer afford to pay her electricty bill so she freezes in the dark;
- when businesses close because their energy costs are too high;
- when people are starving because we are burning food for fuel;
- when we are clearcutting forests to grow the biofuels in the previous point;
- when orangutans are endangered because of the previous two points;
- when deforestation actually does more harm than the problem they are trying to correct;
- etc., etc.....


There is zero proof that we are causing the rise in temperature. There is zero proof that the temperature rise is a problem. There is zero proof that we can do anything about one way or another.

To assume that we can stop the temperature from rising is to assume that natural climate variability has stopped completely and that we are the sole cause of it from here on out. Are you prepared to make that claim?


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No, you're mistaken. There is lots of proof. In basic terms, we are producing gasses such as Carbon Dioxide and Methane. Both of these are called "greenhouse gasses" because they rise high into the atmosphere and trap much of the heat that is usually radiated by planet into space, and instead is reflected back down. Since less heat can escape, more heat remains in our environment, slowly raising the average temperature.

We are also cutting down trees at crazy rate. Trees absorb Carbon Dioxide from the air. Less CO2 means less heat reflecting back.

What are doing 2 really bad things at the same time. We're polluting more, and simultaneously making it harder for the earth to heal itself.


Yes it is a big problem. A warmer climate means less ice arctic ice, shorter winters, stronger storms, more flooding in some places and more drought in other places. The cost of all of these things means some people lose property or crops, or suffer more damage than they should. It also means changing migration patterns for animals, loss of sea life, etc.

It's looking pretty bleak for sure, and some scientists are already saying its too late, but I don't want to give up yet. I'm pretty sure there are lots of things that we can do to help at least first slow down the rate of increase, and then maybe, hopefully, reverse the trend.



Sort of, but let me break up what you said a little to clarify my beliefs on each issue.

You said:
These 2 things are not necessarily in lock step. I think that the climate is changing naturally, but slowly, all on its own. I also think that we are contributing to that change.


You said:
We may or may not be the sole cause, but lets say that we are not - it does not matter. If the climate is getting warmer and disastrous in the (near) future, then it makes sense to for us today to try to find a way to prevent it or at least, reduce the impact. Speaking in strict financial terms, we would save a lot of money, and new industries born from it would create more jobs, etc.

Mark, please don't speak to me like I'm in day 1 of your indoctrination camp. Not to be offensive but you seem very naive, misinformed and gullible. It all comes across as very Orwellian and you just ramp up the doublespeak whenever someone tries to counter one of your points. If you honestly think that that's all there is to how the atmosphere works then there is no helping you out of your cycle of ignorance.

Speaking of Orwell, thanks to people like you we have shit like this coming down the pipe:

US Attorney General: We?ve ?Discussed? Prosecuting Climate Change Deniers

Is that something you're down for? Do you honestly believe that any scientist in the employ of the government can say anything other than "the world is heating up and we're all going to fry unless we all get a Tesla"? Do you honestly believe that the NOAA can be taken seriously as an impartial body?

Do you think that hearing shit like this encourages independent skeptical scientists to publish research that runs contrary to the now almost legally imposed doctrine? Are you okay with this level of authoritarianism and the end of open science?

1984 was a novel not an instruction manual.



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Hey Mark: 0.85 degrees Celsius since 1880 forward (the end of the Little Ice Age).

'Nuff said. The whole thing is a money making scam.

OMG stop saying things. You're an idiot.

All you need to know is the people denying climate change are going to do it no matter what data they're shown, because they have their own fucked up reasons.

It's funny that these are also the same folks who don't want women to have abortions, want less government, love firearms and hate immigrants and gay people.