Take care of paxum!!!

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  • olivierx
    Confirmed User
    • Jan 2012
    • 122
    #1

    Take care of paxum!!!

    I been custumer since 2012 with paxum, i never did anything agaisnt their TOS, 2 month ago they limited my account without any reason, i made tons of ticket, the custumer service keep saying ''we are waiting result of investigation'' they refuse to tell me what they say I did that was so bad that they suspend myself. "We can't help you we do not know anything until the appropriate department finish the investigation".. and so on.. the support are 100% clueless of anything related to the account.

    I called them, the phone agent are actually more clueless then the ticket guys...

    They never gave me any chance to contact them to defend myself,they refuse to tell me the reason or what is the investigation for.

    I contacted support many time, they refuse to help me.

    The only thing i was using paxum for is exchanging money from paypal/webmoney and paying online stuff for my friend in exchange for paypal money, i was also receiving funds from adult sponsors.

    I wish there was another company that had good service and debit card....
    Tags: None
    • #23
      So Fucking Banned
      • Jan 2016
      • 555
      #2
      sign up to payoneer why you still fucking with paxum they suck

        Comment

        • brassmonkey
          Pay It Forward
          • Sep 2005
          • 77396
          #3
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            Comment

            • olivierx
              Confirmed User
              • Jan 2012
              • 122
              #4
              Originally posted by #23
              sign up to payoneer why you still fucking with paxum they suck
              problem with payoneer is they make it very complicated to receive P2P transfers

                Comment

                • #23
                  So Fucking Banned
                  • Jan 2016
                  • 555
                  #5
                  Originally posted by olivierx
                  problem with payoneer is they make it very complicated to receive P2P transfers
                  thats true but you get what you get dealing with paxum

                    Comment

                    • brassmonkey
                      Pay It Forward
                      • Sep 2005
                      • 77396
                      #6
                      Originally posted by olivierx
                      problem with payoneer is they make it very complicated to receive P2P transfers
                      they took the feature out because of major fraud. i still love them
                      TRUMP 2026 KEKAW!!! - The Laken Riley Act Is Law!
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                        Comment

                        • olivierx
                          Confirmed User
                          • Jan 2012
                          • 122
                          #7
                          Originally posted by brassmonkey
                          they took the feature out because of major fraud. i still love them
                          Yea, and when i have exchanger who can do payment by payoneer they charge huge fees...

                          Out of $150 WMZ i receive under $130 in my payoneer account while with paxum i would receive $146.5 in my paxum. thats 16.5$ difference on every $150 its alot.

                          As for paypal, its same crap, except, i can't even withdraw the money to a plastic must go thru bank and its complicated!!

                          Paxum was good for a few years... trying to find a good payment system with debit card is kinda hard!!

                            Comment

                            • brassmonkey
                              Pay It Forward
                              • Sep 2005
                              • 77396
                              #8
                              Originally posted by olivierx
                              Yea, and when i have exchanger who can do payment by payoneer they charge huge fees...

                              Out of $150 WMZ i receive under $130 in my payoneer account while with paxum i would receive $146.5 in my paxum. thats 16.5$ difference on every $150 its alot.

                              As for paypal, its same crap, except, i can't even withdraw the money to a plastic must go thru bank and its complicated!!

                              Paxum was good for a few years... trying to find a good payment system with debit card is kinda hard!!
                              payoneer is fdic insured and paypal is not
                              TRUMP 2026 KEKAW!!! - The Laken Riley Act Is Law!
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                                Comment

                                • Sednub997
                                  Naked in my bathroom
                                  • Dec 2008
                                  • 6174
                                  #9
                                  That your side of the story.If there is nothing they will activate it again



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                                    • k0nr4d
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Aug 2006
                                      • 9231
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by brassmonkey
                                      payoneer is fdic insured and paypal is not
                                      Is it? They are using wirecard bank in germany to issue their cards. I've also heard they own a large stake in choice bank in belize
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                                        • olivierx
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Jan 2012
                                          • 122
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by Sednub997
                                          That your side of the story.If there is nothing they will activate it again
                                          Yup, that's my side of the story, and, they did not give me the chance to even know the reason of account suspension. for 2 month i wrote over 15 tickets to know why i was Limited they always answered they had no information about my account suspension and when information was availaible to them they would explain me.

                                          They did not ask me for any suspisious activity, they did not ask me about any fraud, they did not ask me about nothing, they simply limited my account for 2 month without offering me any explaination on the Why is it limited, and then, they closed it, again, without giving me any reason.

                                          I exclusively used my paxum to exchange money and receive money from sponsors, i never did anything related to something that break their TOS.

                                          I'd love to hear their side of the story, but, unfurtunatly, ''SORRY WE HAVE NO INFORMATION AVAILAIBLE FOR YOU'' they simply close out account without explain anything.


                                          Your account was permanently closed due to breach of TOS and further details are not to be disclosed.
                                          Thats the only ''side of paxum story'' that i heard.

                                          The service was suspended as a result of the investigation conducted by the appropriate department and further details are not to be disclosed.

                                          Best regards!
                                          Thats the only side of story they give.

                                          "We are closing your account, because we decided you breach a TOS. We said you did it, so you did it. No chance to explain yourself, you just did"

                                          Yea. Paxum.

                                            Comment

                                            • brassmonkey
                                              Pay It Forward
                                              • Sep 2005
                                              • 77396
                                              #12
                                              Originally posted by k0nr4d
                                              Is it? They are using wirecard bank in germany to issue their cards. I've also heard they own a large stake in choice bank in belize
                                              thank the lord! in the footer! i noticed service is way better now.
                                              https://www.payoneer.com/about-payoneer/
                                              First Covenant Bank (member FDIC)
                                              TRUMP 2026 KEKAW!!! - The Laken Riley Act Is Law!
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                                                Comment

                                                • shake
                                                  frc
                                                  • Jul 2003
                                                  • 4663
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by brassmonkey
                                                  payoneer is fdic insured and paypal is not
                                                  The wording of "authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Commission, Gibraltar, or First Covenant Bank (member FDIC)" wouldn't make me feel deposits were covered by the FDIC.
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                                                    Comment

                                                    • brassmonkey
                                                      Pay It Forward
                                                      • Sep 2005
                                                      • 77396
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by shake
                                                      The wording of "authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Commission, Gibraltar, or First Covenant Bank (member FDIC)" wouldn't make me feel deposits were covered by the FDIC.
                                                      my card is first choice bank confirmed fdic don't cry if things go south
                                                      TRUMP 2026 KEKAW!!! - The Laken Riley Act Is Law!
                                                      DACA ENDED - SUPPORT AZ HCR 2060 52R - email: brassballz-at-techie.com

                                                        Comment

                                                        • fistinface
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • Jan 2012
                                                          • 173
                                                          #15
                                                          Considering who owns it...

                                                            Comment

                                                            • CaptainHowdy
                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                              • Dec 2004
                                                              • 94727
                                                              #16
                                                              Never had any problem with them ... hold for Ruth's reply??

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Chibbs
                                                                  Registered User
                                                                  • Oct 2015
                                                                  • 79
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Had mine 2 years not a single issue yet

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                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Adraco
                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                      • May 2009
                                                                      • 3745
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by olivierx
                                                                      The only thing i was using paxum for is exchanging money from paypal/webmoney and paying online stuff for my friend in exchange for paypal money, i was also receiving funds from adult sponsors.
                                                                      Originally posted by olivierx
                                                                      They did not ask me for any suspisious activity, they did not ask me about any fraud, they did not ask me about nothing,

                                                                      I exclusively used my paxum to exchange money and receive money from sponsors, i never did anything related to something that break their TOS.

                                                                      Have you read their TOS regarding exchanges?

                                                                      https://www.paxum.com/payment/terms....iews/terms.xsl
                                                                      I quote a small selection for you here below, note; my bolding:

                                                                      3.5 Paxum Users should not engage in any illegal activity including but not restricted to money laundering, terrorism, identity theft, etc. Suspicion of such activity will result in a full investigation and disclosure of User's information with all law enforcing agencies.

                                                                      3.6 Exchange services (business or personal) are responsible for their KYC, and are held responsible for all incoming and outgoing transactions. Funds present in any account at any time are always the responsibility of the account owner and should be aware of their origin/provenance as he is responsible for their legitimacy. Paxum reserves the right to reverse transactions and seize funds in cases of proven fraud.

                                                                      3.8 It is the user's responsibility to keep up to date with all terms and conditions, as found on the website. Users must periodically verify the terms and conditions for changes and/or additions. The terms included herein are subject to change at any time and without further notice.
                                                                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                      The truth is not affected by the beliefs, or doubts, of the majority.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • brassmonkey
                                                                          Pay It Forward
                                                                          • Sep 2005
                                                                          • 77396
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by Adraco
                                                                          Have you read their TOS regarding exchanges?



                                                                          3.6 Exchange services (business or personal) are responsible for their KYC, and are held responsible for all incoming and outgoing transactions. Funds present in any account at any time are always the responsibility of the account owner and should be aware of their origin/provenance as he is responsible for their legitimacy. Paxum reserves the right to reverse transactions and seize funds in cases of proven fraud.

                                                                          3.8 It is the user's responsibility to keep up to date with all terms and conditions, as found on the website. Users must periodically verify the terms and conditions for changes and/or additions. The terms included herein are subject to change at any time and without further notice.
                                                                          run foolz! one trime!!!
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                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • olivierx
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Jan 2012
                                                                              • 122
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by Adraco
                                                                              Have you read their TOS regarding exchanges?

                                                                              https://www.paxum.com/payment/terms....iews/terms.xsl
                                                                              I quote a small selection for you here below, note; my bolding:

                                                                              3.5 Paxum Users should not engage in any illegal activity including but not restricted to money laundering, terrorism, identity theft, etc. Suspicion of such activity will result in a full investigation and disclosure of User's information with all law enforcing agencies.

                                                                              3.6 Exchange services (business or personal) are responsible for their KYC, and are held responsible for all incoming and outgoing transactions. Funds present in any account at any time are always the responsibility of the account owner and should be aware of their origin/provenance as he is responsible for their legitimacy. Paxum reserves the right to reverse transactions and seize funds in cases of proven fraud.

                                                                              3.8 It is the user's responsibility to keep up to date with all terms and conditions, as found on the website. Users must periodically verify the terms and conditions for changes and/or additions. The terms included herein are subject to change at any time and without further notice.
                                                                              Yes i did!! I have only used reputable exchanger from Bestchange, all of them have tons of feedback.

                                                                              I have not done any money laundring as the fund received to my wmz are declared to my tax as revenue, exchanging them to get them out of my paxum account is not money laundry as i already paid tax on those funds.

                                                                              And even if that was the case, why would they not tell me about it?! Why they refuse to tell me which rules from TOS i breach?

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • poncabare
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Jul 2007
                                                                                  • 2552
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Your headline makes about as much sense as all the people who spell lose "loose" here

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • OneHungLo
                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                      • May 2001
                                                                                      • 40906
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Looks like someone got...BUSTED!!!!��

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Tjeezers
                                                                                          Webmaster
                                                                                          • Mar 2007
                                                                                          • 16602
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Question

                                                                                          What happens with the funds when they close an account?

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                                                                                            • brassmonkey
                                                                                              Pay It Forward
                                                                                              • Sep 2005
                                                                                              • 77396
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by Tjeezers
                                                                                              Question

                                                                                              What happens with the funds when they close an account?
                                                                                              if it's fraud probably refunded
                                                                                              TRUMP 2026 KEKAW!!! - The Laken Riley Act Is Law!
                                                                                              DACA ENDED - SUPPORT AZ HCR 2060 52R - email: brassballz-at-techie.com

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • marlboroack
                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                  • Jul 2010
                                                                                                  • 9327
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Maybe you bought them lunch

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • Paul Markham
                                                                                                      Too old to care
                                                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                                                      • 52942
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by olivierx

                                                                                                      Your account was permanently closed due to breach of TOS and further details are not to be disclosed.
                                                                                                      Thats the only ''side of paxum story'' that i heard.

                                                                                                      The service was suspended as a result of the investigation conducted by the appropriate department and further details are not to be disclosed.

                                                                                                      Best regards!
                                                                                                      Thats the only side of story they give.

                                                                                                      "We are closing your account, because we decided you breach a TOS. We said you did it, so you did it. No chance to explain yourself, you just did"

                                                                                                      Yea. Paxum.
                                                                                                      Unless they're holding your money. That's all they need to say. They don't want you as a customer.



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                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • olivierx
                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                          • Jan 2012
                                                                                                          • 122
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by Paul Markham
                                                                                                          Unless they're holding your money. That's all they need to say. They don't want you as a customer.
                                                                                                          They didnt hold money, they allowed me to withdraw my money.

                                                                                                          If they dont want me as custumer they should say it before they make me renew my paxum debit card and make me pay those paxum yearly card fees.

                                                                                                          Is how i know nothing is wrong from the money i received because they allowed me to withdraw it.

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • olivierx
                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                              • Jan 2012
                                                                                                              • 122
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by brassmonkey
                                                                                                              if it's fraud probably refunded
                                                                                                              I didnt do or related myself to any fraud, i am 100% sure of that. I use same exchanger for many years, and , i been paying things for friend on legit site which have nothing to do with fraud(advertising website that my friend was not able to pay for as he is in India and his paypal didnt allow him to buy online)

                                                                                                              Any way i'd still love to know what is the TOS that i breach that is so bad that they can close my 4 years old account which did over 200k$ transaction since day 1 with them. And they do not refund my paxum card fees.

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • plaster
                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                  • Apr 2015
                                                                                                                  • 2295
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  I have seen Ruth pop in here and there with some language about paxum is not to be used for exchanges. If I cared enough I would find it... unfortunately I don't give a shit and also would never use paxum.

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • olivierx
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Jan 2012
                                                                                                                      • 122
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by plaster
                                                                                                                      I have seen Ruth pop in here and there with some language about paxum is not to be used for exchanges. If I cared enough I would find it... unfortunately I don't give a shit and also would never use paxum.
                                                                                                                      If that was the case, why they would refuse to give me the reason of the account closure?

                                                                                                                      Why would they not warn me or block the exchanger's paxum account? i know many exchanger and all of them use same paxum for many years. One is even verified business paypal and is business is doing exchange.

                                                                                                                      Google for Paxum Exchange and you will hundred's of exchanger that will exchange it.

                                                                                                                      I was not running any exchanging website lol i was not even exchanging that much!

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • brassmonkey
                                                                                                                          Pay It Forward
                                                                                                                          • Sep 2005
                                                                                                                          • 77396
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by olivierx
                                                                                                                          I didnt do or related myself to any fraud, i am 100% sure of that. I use same exchanger for many years, and , i been paying things for friend on legit site which have nothing to do with fraud(advertising website that my friend was not able to pay for as he is in India and his paypal didnt allow him to buy online)

                                                                                                                          Any way i'd still love to know what is the TOS that i breach that is so bad that they can close my 4 years old account which did over 200k$ transaction since day 1 with them. And they do not refund my paxum card fees.
                                                                                                                          ahhhhh maybe its the exchanger that did something. that's one of the risk. seen that happen before.
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                                                                                                                            • olivierx
                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                              • Jan 2012
                                                                                                                              • 122
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              I still talk with the exchanger on skype he shown me his account on screenshot hes not blocked and he have lot of funds in compare to what he sent me.

                                                                                                                              I got new reply from paxum when again I asked them what was reason of the account closure

                                                                                                                              We cannot disclose anymore information regarding the closure of your Paxum Account.

                                                                                                                              Best Regards!
                                                                                                                              So yea paxum just randomly close people account say they breach their terms of uses but refuse to say what they did wrong...

                                                                                                                              Think twice before relaying on paxum this may happen to you without reason.

                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                • Google Expert
                                                                                                                                  Webmaster
                                                                                                                                  • Jun 2004
                                                                                                                                  • 14294
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by olivierx
                                                                                                                                  The only thing i was using paxum for is exchanging money from paypal/webmoney and paying online stuff for my friend in exchange for paypal money

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • Google Expert
                                                                                                                                      Webmaster
                                                                                                                                      • Jun 2004
                                                                                                                                      • 14294
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by olivierx
                                                                                                                                      Think twice before relaying on paxum this may happen to you without reason.
                                                                                                                                      They closed your account because you were laundering money for your "friend"

                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • ravo
                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                          • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                          • 5461
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by olivierx

                                                                                                                                          So yea paxum just randomly close people account say they breach their terms of uses but refuse to say what they did wrong...
                                                                                                                                          Sure.... Paxum just goes around randomly closing accounts. For real???

                                                                                                                                          I'd guess that this has something to do with one of your exchange partners, as posters have already mentioned here.
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                                                                                                                                            • brassmonkey
                                                                                                                                              Pay It Forward
                                                                                                                                              • Sep 2005
                                                                                                                                              • 77396
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by olivierx
                                                                                                                                              I still talk with the exchanger on skype he shown me his account on screenshot hes not blocked and he have lot of funds in compare to what he sent me.

                                                                                                                                              I got new reply from paxum when again I asked them what was reason of the account closure



                                                                                                                                              So yea paxum just randomly close people account say they breach their terms of uses but refuse to say what they did wrong...

                                                                                                                                              Think twice before relaying on paxum this may happen to you without reason.
                                                                                                                                              they are not giving lessons to criminals. not saying you are one. i think you may have been in bed with a criminal if it is truly not u
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                                                                                                                                                • jezz87
                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                  • Jul 2010
                                                                                                                                                  • 199
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by olivierx
                                                                                                                                                  "We are closing your account, because we decided you breach a TOS. We said you did it, so you did it. No chance to explain yourself, you just did"
                                                                                                                                                  That's pretty much what every Risk/Fraud department does.
                                                                                                                                                  Do you really think they are here to disclose sensitive information to people who are breaching their TOS ? So they can better do it next time and not getting caught ?

                                                                                                                                                  You did something that was against their TOS and , just by looking at their replies, it looks like fraud of some kind ...

                                                                                                                                                  I have been using paxum for 4 years, never had a single issue with them

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • jezz87
                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                      • Jul 2010
                                                                                                                                                      • 199
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by olivierx
                                                                                                                                                      The only thing i was using paxum for is exchanging money from paypal/webmoney and paying online stuff for my friend in exchange for paypal money, i was also receiving funds from adult sponsors.
                                                                                                                                                      ahaha ok

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • olivierx
                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                          • Jan 2012
                                                                                                                                                          • 122
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          I never did any fraud. I received money exclusively from person i am sure they dont fraud. I also received money from 5 or 6 sponsors here.

                                                                                                                                                          I only used paxum with people i knew were not gonna fraud me. The only exchangers i been using are both still using paxum and none are limited or account closed.


                                                                                                                                                          If PayPal close your account they will definetly tell you what you did wrong.

                                                                                                                                                          Paxum even allowed me to withdraw my last fund so if it was fraud they would not allow me to withdraw fund.

                                                                                                                                                          What hurt me is that i was relaying on them for cashing out sponsors and my wmz when i am on travel was so good to just take the debit card with me and not need to take cash or pay international fees from my bank

                                                                                                                                                          I did or was involve in 0 fraud with my paxum this is 100% sure.

                                                                                                                                                          Since many years i was using paxum same way as first day with same exchanger and mostly same sponsors. Except last year was not earning so much as previous years ( at some point was earning 3k weekly and always had trouble with the 10k monthly paxum limit ) and i never had trouble now when i dont make so much money they close me... without reason...

                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                            • adultmobile
                                                                                                                                                              No, I am not banned
                                                                                                                                                              • Nov 2003
                                                                                                                                                              • 5345
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by olivierx
                                                                                                                                                              I never did any fraud. I received money exclusively from person i am sure they dont fraud. I also received money from 5 or 6 sponsors here.
                                                                                                                                                              Just saying, all the times a sponsor cheats in my problems (fake signups with proxy, carding) and asks payment to paxum, I tell to paxum... think if any of the sponsors tinks you cheated them too. one may have reported you.

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                                                                                                                                                                • olivierx
                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                  • Jan 2012
                                                                                                                                                                  • 122
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by adultmobile
                                                                                                                                                                  Just saying, all the times a sponsor cheats in my problems (fake signups with proxy, carding) and asks payment to paxum, I tell to paxum... think if any of the sponsors tinks you cheated them too. one may have reported you.
                                                                                                                                                                  i still have all my account on all sponsors and already received payment om my new payment method from most of them

                                                                                                                                                                  i doubt it had anything to do with that.

                                                                                                                                                                  All the money i received since 2012 on paxum was not blackhat earned.

                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                    • Tjeezers
                                                                                                                                                                      Webmaster
                                                                                                                                                                      • Mar 2007
                                                                                                                                                                      • 16602
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by olivierx
                                                                                                                                                                      i still have all my account on all sponsors and already received payment om my new payment method from most of them

                                                                                                                                                                      i doubt it had anything to do with that.

                                                                                                                                                                      All the money i received since 2012 on paxum was not blackhat earned.
                                                                                                                                                                      So it was not fraude, cause they let you redraw your money

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                                                                                                                                                                        • JSWENSON
                                                                                                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                          • Aug 2004
                                                                                                                                                                          • 3153
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by jezz87
                                                                                                                                                                          That's pretty much what every Risk/Fraud department does.
                                                                                                                                                                          Do you really think they are here to disclose sensitive information to people who are breaching their TOS ? So they can better do it next time and not getting caught ?

                                                                                                                                                                          You did something that was against their TOS and , just by looking at their replies, it looks like fraud of some kind ...

                                                                                                                                                                          I have been using paxum for 4 years, never had a single issue with them
                                                                                                                                                                          Actually, this is only an excuse I've seen used in adult. Everyone else tells you what in the fuck is going on.

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