VividCash - No more PPS

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Narcissus
    Registered User
    • Apr 2008
    • 35

    #1

    VividCash - No more PPS

    So, is anyone still promoting VividCash since their change in program last year from PPS to Revshare?

    i promote a ton of programs so, really didn't start realizing how much they are fucking over the affiliates now and paying $2.47 per sale on the $4.95 join option (in a whole year i have not seen a single trial go up to a full member payout.

    I could be the only one experiencing this, i dunno. but it feels really fucked up to get paid a fraction of what we were getting paid for the same links & effort. It's definitely not worth promoting now in my opinion.

    thoughts?
  • MetaformX
    Confirmed User
    • Mar 2002
    • 6704

    #2
    Vivid is a joke online. Webquest is dropping the ball big time and should focus more on a proper brand like this. It's a shame really but whatever.

    Another big brand which is a joke online is Hustler. Amazing how bad their strategies are.

    Comment

    • Major (Tom)
      So Fucking Banned
      • Nov 2003
      • 32492

      #3
      But I'm sure you will get offered a million dollars by hirsch though
      Ds

      Comment

      • NoWhErE
        Too lazy to set a custom title
        • Sep 2005
        • 10583

        #4
        If your sales weren't converting, I can understand why they would stop paying PPS.

        The whole point of PPS is to give you a lump sum now and the program makes money in the long run with rebills. If they're not making any money with your sales, then it just makes sense to cut off PPS.

        Its basic economics.

        HOWEVER, why trials aren't converting is a totally different issue. Could be the way you promote them, their conversion process might not be good or a technical problem with their settings. My guess is as good as yours.

        Your best bet is to talk with your affiliate manager and work out why your revshare sales aren't doing too great.
        skype: lordofthecameltoe

        Comment

        • MichaelP
          Registered User
          • Aug 2003
          • 7124

          #5
          Originally posted by NoWhErE
          If your sales weren't converting, I can understand why they would stop paying PPS.

          The whole point of PPS is to give you a lump sum now and the program makes money in the long run with rebills. If they're not making any money with your sales, then it just makes sense to cut off PPS.

          Its basic economics.

          HOWEVER, why trials aren't converting is a totally different issue. Could be the way you promote them, their conversion process might not be good or a technical problem with their settings. My guess is as good as yours.

          Your best bet is to talk with your affiliate manager and work out why your revshare sales aren't doing too great.


          Personally, I always preferred pushing RS. Matter of personal taste I guess... I know sometimes $ is not there now, but in the long run, I always made more with RS... (For what it's worth )

          Comment

          • CaptainHowdy
            Too lazy to set a custom title
            • Dec 2004
            • 94733

            #6
            Sign of the dimes ...

            Comment

            • plaster
              So Fucking Banned
              • Apr 2015
              • 2295

              #7
              An average rebill ratio on trials with what I call, shittier traffic, is about 40%. Good traffic it's about 70%.

              It is statistically impossible for you to have, say, 50 trials and none rebill unless you are getting traffic from like a prepaid credit card forum or something.

              Comment

              • blackmonsters
                Making PHP work
                • Nov 2002
                • 20970

                #8
                Originally posted by Narcissus
                So, is anyone still promoting VividCash since their change in program last year from PPS to Revshare?

                i promote a ton of programs so, really didn't start realizing how much they are fucking over the affiliates now and paying $2.47 per sale on the $4.95 join option (in a whole year i have not seen a single trial go up to a full member payout.

                I could be the only one experiencing this, i dunno. but it feels really fucked up to get paid a fraction of what we were getting paid for the same links & effort. It's definitely not worth promoting now in my opinion.

                thoughts?
                Yeah, that's why you have to use revshare; your traffic does not convert to full membership.

                Nothing new here.
                Free Open Source Live Aggregated Cams Script (FOSLACS)

                Comment

                • plaster
                  So Fucking Banned
                  • Apr 2015
                  • 2295

                  #9
                  Originally posted by blackmonsters
                  Yeah, that's why you have to use revshare; your traffic does not convert to full membership.

                  Nothing new here.
                  I don't agree with you on that. If it was free lead without a credit card, yes, a $4.95 trial never converting... no way.

                  Comment

                  • Fat Panda
                    Porn is Dead. Move along.
                    • Aug 2006
                    • 13296

                    #10
                    ALSO, navigate to a Vivid FHG with your NATS code, click close

                    Vivid offers 50% off membership AND REPLACES YOUR NATS CODE WITH THEIRS

                    Comment

                    • plaster
                      So Fucking Banned
                      • Apr 2015
                      • 2295

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Fat Panda
                      ALSO, navigate to a Vivid FHG with your NATS code, click close

                      Vivid offers 50% off membership AND REPLACES YOUR NATS CODE WITH THEIRS
                      What's the link structure?

                      Does it have the word "track" in the URL? If so, NATS is setup to give credit to first cookie received. If it doesn't, it is over riding the affiliate cookies.

                      Comment

                      • CamTraffic
                        Confirmed User
                        • Feb 2008
                        • 6538

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Fat Panda
                        ALSO, navigate to a Vivid FHG with your NATS code, click close

                        Vivid offers 50% off membership AND REPLACES YOUR NATS CODE WITH THEIRS
                        I am always buying traffic and white labels. Hit me up.
                        Email me HERE!

                        Comment

                        • Fat Panda
                          Porn is Dead. Move along.
                          • Aug 2006
                          • 13296

                          #13
                          Originally posted by plaster
                          What's the link structure?

                          Does it have the word "track" in the URL? If so, NATS is setup to give credit to first cookie received. If it doesn't, it is over riding the affiliate cookies.
                          this is the destination URL: here

                          Comment

                          • plaster
                            So Fucking Banned
                            • Apr 2015
                            • 2295

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Fat Panda
                            this is the destination URL: here
                            I don't have a vivid account so can't see... not destination link, the link prior to getting to destination. The link in the popup, what is directly after the .com?

                            Comment

                            • Google Expert
                              Webmaster
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 14294

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Fat Panda
                              ALSO, navigate to a Vivid FHG with your NATS code, click close

                              Vivid offers 50% off membership AND REPLACES YOUR NATS CODE WITH THEIRS


                              nice assfucking their affiliates

                              Comment

                              • Fat Panda
                                Porn is Dead. Move along.
                                • Aug 2006
                                • 13296

                                #16
                                Originally posted by plaster
                                I don't have a vivid account so can't see... not destination link, the link prior to getting to destination. The link in the popup, what is directly after the .com?
                                the popup link: here

                                Comment

                                • plaster
                                  So Fucking Banned
                                  • Apr 2015
                                  • 2295

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Fat Panda
                                  the popup link: here
                                  It's a passive link. It means that if a cookie has already been set, yours, that link won't override yours. It's meant to assign no affiliate sales to one account inside of NATS.

                                  They are not shaving sales by that link.

                                  The question though is why are no $4.95 trials converting to full memberships? Surely they don't ask the new trial member if they want full membership after trial...
                                  It is statistically impossible for no trials to convert if the number of sales is in double digits. I would put 10 trial sales, and all cancel and/or fail rebill, at about 1:100. Higher number of sales, exponentially more impossible for nothing to rebill.

                                  Comment

                                  • Fat Panda
                                    Porn is Dead. Move along.
                                    • Aug 2006
                                    • 13296

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by plaster
                                    It's a passive link. It means that if a cookie has already been set, yours, that link won't override yours. It's meant to assign no affiliate sales to one account inside of NATS.

                                    They are not shaving sales by that link.

                                    The question though is why are no $4.95 trials converting to full memberships? Surely they don't ask the new trial member if they want full membership after trial...
                                    It is statistically impossible for no trials to convert if the number of sales is in double digits. I would put 10 trial sales, and all cancel and/or fail rebill, at about 1:100. Higher number of sales, exponentially more impossible for nothing to rebill.
                                    thanks for clearing this up...sorry Vivid for making a mistake concerning your exit NATS link

                                    Comment

                                    • NoWhErE
                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                      • Sep 2005
                                      • 10583

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Fat Panda
                                      the popup link: here
                                      The pricing is weird.

                                      $1 trial rebilled at $29.95 per month
                                      Per month at $39.95
                                      1 year at $95.40


                                      So basically, the trial and conversion are cheaper than the per month option.

                                      And the 1 year option is about 2 months of regular billing (39.95), comes $7.95 per month to and doesn't auto-rebill.
                                      skype: lordofthecameltoe

                                      Comment

                                      • plaster
                                        So Fucking Banned
                                        • Apr 2015
                                        • 2295

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by NoWhErE
                                        The pricing is weird.

                                        $1 trial rebilled at $29.95 per month
                                        Per month at $39.95
                                        1 year at $95.40


                                        So basically, the trial and conversion are cheaper than the per month option.

                                        And the 1 year option is about 2 months of regular billing (39.95), comes $7.95 per month to and doesn't auto-rebill.
                                        I always have had the most success by picking the plan you want to sell the most and highlight it. Never show a recurring plan next to a non-recurring plan.

                                        The way I do it now, and will do for everything, is default the trial in drop down menu, and offer the one month and multi-month option as well but can't see them unless surfer clicks the drop down. Never talk about plans recurring on the pre-join page. Join page shows recurring terms.

                                        I see soooo many sites put all the recurring language (usually ccbill sites), on their own pre-join page (usually right next to the price point), and then don't even attempt to collect the email of potential member either.

                                        They've done two no no's with that, they've alerted the surfer that one plan rebills and the other doesn't (so they go cheaper price and cancel), and they lost ability to bring surfers who don't pay that day back by emailing them. And it is rampant, all over the place, I see this.

                                        Comment

                                        • Adraco
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • May 2009
                                          • 3745

                                          #21
                                          Your sales do not convert for them. Did you think they want to continue pay you $35 PPS just to be good guys???

                                          They, just like you, are in this to make money! Things that are not profitable, should be cut out or changed. No one can, in the long run, continue a business which pays out more per sale than what is generated from it. Simple math!

                                          How come you belive or feel entitled to anything else than the value of the sales you bring?
                                          ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          The truth is not affected by the beliefs, or doubts, of the majority.

                                          Comment

                                          • jscott
                                            jscizzle
                                            • Feb 2001
                                            • 25412

                                            #22
                                            It must have been a complete affiliate change because mine has also gone from $20 pps to revshare now too. I'm not complaining about the change, but I will complain on their lack of telling affiliates about a change like this.
                                            “If you think tough men are dangerous, wait until you see what weak men are capable of.”
                                            —Jordan B. Peterson

                                            Listen to Pomp tell why is Bitcoin important

                                            Comment

                                            • HomerSimpson
                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                              • Sep 2005
                                              • 13826

                                              #23
                                              I bought a nice domain with some great posts already linked to Vivid (but using previous user's links) and applied for an account (so I can swap the link)... Never got account approved... Sent couple of email... got no response...
                                              Make a bank with Chaturbate - the best selling webcam program
                                              Ads that can't be block with AdBlockers !!! /// Best paying popup program (Bitcoin payouts) !!!

                                              PHP, MySql, Smarty, CodeIgniter, Laravel, WordPress, NATS... fixing stuff, server migrations & optimizations... My ICQ: 27429884 | Email:

                                              Comment

                                              • Jel
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Feb 2007
                                                • 6904

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by jscott
                                                It must have been a complete affiliate change because mine has also gone from $20 pps to revshare now too. I'm not complaining about the change, but I will complain on their lack of telling affiliates about a change like this.
                                                they did tell affs mate (email + internal message), about 6 months - a year ago, whenever it was implemented. Vivid is now revshare only for affs (they may have private deals with specific webmasters, they may not). Vivid are 100% straight shooters

                                                Comment

                                                • Google Expert
                                                  Webmaster
                                                  • Jun 2004
                                                  • 14294

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Adraco
                                                  Your sales do not convert for them. Did you think they want to continue pay you $35 PPS just to be good guys???
                                                  That's their problem. His job is to bring in the traffic that is interested in the website.

                                                  The thing that Vivid can't close the sale is their own problem (design, programming, etc, etc)

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Adraco
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • May 2009
                                                    • 3745

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by Muad'Dib
                                                    That's their problem. His job is to bring in the traffic that is interested in the website.

                                                    The thing that Vivid can't close the sale is their own problem (design, programming, etc, etc)
                                                    Very true, but as per your own word, and I quote:
                                                    "His job is to bring in the traffic that is interested in the website." (my bolding)

                                                    End quote.

                                                    If none of his sales convert into full paying ones, then clearly, the traffic he is bringing in is not that interested in the website...
                                                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                    The truth is not affected by the beliefs, or doubts, of the majority.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • nikki99
                                                      Supermodel
                                                      • Nov 2004
                                                      • 23087

                                                      #27
                                                      PPS is very 2005
                                                      SMC Revenue - Best Tgirl websites of the world now VR
                                                      Non exclusive BIG Tranny/shemale Package for sale, full 2257 - hit me up skype: nikkimontero

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Narcissus
                                                        Registered User
                                                        • Apr 2008
                                                        • 35

                                                        #28
                                                        the issue is less about the conversions and more about how much less they pay for the same links.

                                                        i think we're getting screwed on that damn trial. fuck the trial.. get rid of that shit. i'd be fine on a normal rev share.

                                                        Lots of speculation that my traffic is the problem. No, it's plenty targeted. the conversions should be what the program is doing with perfectly good leads. Something has changed because i was getting plenty of full joins before the program change.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Narcissus
                                                          Registered User
                                                          • Apr 2008
                                                          • 35

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Adraco
                                                          Very true, but as per your own word, and I quote:
                                                          "His job is to bring in the traffic that is interested in the website." (my bolding)

                                                          End quote.

                                                          If none of his sales convert into full paying ones, then clearly, the traffic he is bringing in is not that interested in the website...
                                                          They sure convert into the trials plenty often. So, yea... the traffic is clearly interested.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • 30SalesPlus
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • May 2006
                                                            • 212

                                                            #30
                                                            Like most the mainstream porn brands they suck at online and always have.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • bohous
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Dec 2005
                                                              • 608

                                                              #31
                                                              anybody has working contact for vividcash?

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Feng-PD
                                                                www.PornDeals.com
                                                                • Jul 2011
                                                                • 3964

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by bohous
                                                                anybody has working contact for vividcash?
                                                                David from vivid is going to contact you

                                                                PornDeals.com - WebcamDeals.com - GayDeals.com - PornCoupons.comnew!


                                                                Skype : fengwu83
                                                                Email : feng{atter}porndeals{dotter}com

                                                                Comment

                                                                • vano
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Apr 2005
                                                                  • 210

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by Adraco
                                                                  Very true, but as per your own word, and I quote:
                                                                  "His job is to bring in the traffic that is interested in the website." (my bolding)

                                                                  End quote.

                                                                  If none of his sales convert into full paying ones, then clearly, the traffic he is bringing in is not that interested in the website...
                                                                  If a surfer pays for a trial membership, then he is interested in the website and it's good traffic.

                                                                  If Vivid has such a shitty members area that surfers refuse to rebill, guess who's problem is that? (Hint: not affiliate's).

                                                                  MrSkin has same deal - shitty RevShare only.
                                                                  After they fucked me over and stole my rebills, i won't touch RevShare anymore.
                                                                  Celebrity TrafficPremium PPSTabloidDollars.com

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • JohnnyNight
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Jun 2012
                                                                    • 484

                                                                    #34
                                                                    They got a relaunch... with pps

                                                                    Vivid Re-Launches VividCash.com - XBIZ.com

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • MHK
                                                                      Next Step Entertainment
                                                                      • Sep 2006
                                                                      • 138

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by HomerSimpson
                                                                      I bought a nice domain with some great posts already linked to Vivid (but using previous user's links) and applied for an account (so I can swap the link)... Never got account approved... Sent couple of email... got no response...
                                                                      Hopefully someone has reached out to you. David Benedetti ([email protected]) can help you with whatever you need or you can also reach me directly.
                                                                      MHK
                                                                      Next Step Entertainment, LLC
                                                                      (T) 310-503-7592
                                                                      email: [email protected]
                                                                      Skype:mhklein22

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • notjoe
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • May 2002
                                                                        • 5599

                                                                        #36
                                                                        It's easy enough to prove one way or another. Signup to their program with your own referral link. let it convert to a full month and see if you get the fucking commission. If you do then your traffic is shit. If you don't then you know they are fucking you.

                                                                        It' not fucking rocket science

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • SomeCreep
                                                                          :glugglug
                                                                          • Mar 2003
                                                                          • 26118

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by Narcissus
                                                                          So, is anyone still promoting VividCash since their change in program last year from PPS to Revshare?

                                                                          i promote a ton of programs so, really didn't start realizing how much they are fucking over the affiliates now and paying $2.47 per sale on the $4.95 join option (in a whole year i have not seen a single trial go up to a full member payout.

                                                                          I could be the only one experiencing this, i dunno. but it feels really fucked up to get paid a fraction of what we were getting paid for the same links & effort. It's definitely not worth promoting now in my opinion.

                                                                          thoughts?
                                                                          It happens. Sponsors do that shit to affiliates all the time. And yes, it's fucked up. Typically though, they only do it when your trial joins aren't converting to monthly memberships.

                                                                          Webair Hosting

                                                                          I use and recommend Webair for hosting.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • mroad1212
                                                                            Registered User
                                                                            • Jun 2016
                                                                            • 91

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Hello

                                                                            Originally posted by Narcissus
                                                                            So, is anyone still promoting VividCash since their change in program last year from PPS to Revshare?

                                                                            i promote a ton of programs so, really didn't start realizing how much they are fucking over the affiliates now and paying $2.47 per sale on the $4.95 join option (in a whole year i have not seen a single trial go up to a full member payout.

                                                                            I could be the only one experiencing this, i dunno. but it feels really fucked up to get paid a fraction of what we were getting paid for the same links & effort. It's definitely not worth promoting now in my opinion.

                                                                            thoughts?

                                                                            Hi Narcissus,

                                                                            I am David with Vividcash.com . We doing everything internally now and things have changed. We offer many new programs and tools for affiliates to do well with us.

                                                                            You are more than welcome to contact me, I'll be happy to discuss this with you.

                                                                            Thanks,

                                                                            David
                                                                            [email protected]
                                                                            Skype: david.madmon1

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Matyko
                                                                              PsyHead
                                                                              • Aug 2005
                                                                              • 8681

                                                                              #39
                                                                              I can confirm that David is a great, helpful and cooperative guy. Get in touch with him, you won't regret it.

                                                                              Originally posted by mroad1212
                                                                              Hi Narcissus,

                                                                              I am David with Vividcash.com . We doing everything internally now and things have changed. We offer many new programs and tools for affiliates to do well with us.

                                                                              You are more than welcome to contact me, I'll be happy to discuss this with you.

                                                                              Thanks,

                                                                              David
                                                                              [email protected]
                                                                              Skype: david.madmon1
                                                                              -=- Register with our ref link and we help you with the setup! -=-
                                                                              AdSpyglass.com - Double your profit from brokers

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • RyuLion
                                                                                • Mar 2003
                                                                                • 32369

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Wow.......

                                                                                Adult Biz Consultant A tech head since 1995
                                                                                Affiliate Support: Chaturbate | CCBill Live

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Kelli58
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Aug 2006
                                                                                  • 2254

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  I'm a fan of revshare but my traffic has always converted well for me with Vivid so this works well for me.
                                                                                  💎 Earn Money by Helping Content Creators Earn More. 💎 The most unique affiliate program in the game. There are more than 1.5 million OnlyFans creators. Here's your chance to make money from them!

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Paul Markham
                                                                                    Too old to care
                                                                                    • Jun 2001
                                                                                    • 52942

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Contact them and tell them if they don't do what you want. You will stop sending traffic.

                                                                                    They have as much right to change the terms as you do to withdraw the traffic.



                                                                                    Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                                                    PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • beavr
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Sep 2015
                                                                                      • 563

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      It's really great to see Vivid split apart with WebQuest who messed a lot with affiliates. John and David are doing a great job there.
                                                                                      VR porn is SexLikeReal.

                                                                                      Big money in VR porn those days

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • HAARALA
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Sep 2009
                                                                                        • 1988

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by Kelli58
                                                                                        I'm a fan of revshare but my traffic has always converted well for me with Vivid so this works well for me.
                                                                                        paying $2.47 per sale on the $4.95 join option...

                                                                                        This is wonderful for you ????? 2.47 per sale

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • xXXtesy10
                                                                                          Fakecoin Investor
                                                                                          • Jul 2012
                                                                                          • 7127

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by Paul Markham
                                                                                          Contact them and tell them if they don't do what you want. You will stop sending traffic.

                                                                                          They have as much right to change the terms as you do to withdraw the traffic.
                                                                                          please blow fucking brains out thank you
                                                                                          WARNING: Stay Away From Marlboroack aka aka Brandon Ackerman
                                                                                          http://gfy.com/21169705-post8.html
                                                                                          Donny Long is Felon, Stalker, Scammer & Coward
                                                                                          http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/...lon-int-761244

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • Holly Lez!
                                                                                            She's back
                                                                                            • Oct 2003
                                                                                            • 3480

                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            David is a top notch guy!
                                                                                            [email protected]
                                                                                            Skype: hollyruprecht

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Neighbor
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Nov 2005
                                                                                              • 1511

                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by Holly Lez!
                                                                                              David is a top notch guy!
                                                                                              Couldn't agree more Holly ;)

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • Holly Lez!
                                                                                                She's back
                                                                                                • Oct 2003
                                                                                                • 3480

                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Originally posted by MetaformX
                                                                                                Vivid is a joke online. Webquest is dropping the ball big time and should focus more on a proper brand like this. It's a shame really but whatever.

                                                                                                Another big brand which is a joke online is Hustler. Amazing how bad their strategies are.
                                                                                                Thanks duly noted
                                                                                                [email protected]
                                                                                                Skype: hollyruprecht

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • Holly Lez!
                                                                                                  She's back
                                                                                                  • Oct 2003
                                                                                                  • 3480

                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Neighbor
                                                                                                  Couldn't agree more Holly ;)
                                                                                                  You aint so bad yourself
                                                                                                  [email protected]
                                                                                                  Skype: hollyruprecht

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • FreeHugeMovies
                                                                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                    • Dec 2001
                                                                                                    • 14141

                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    What a cluster fuck over there.

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    Working...