Court rules for Backpage against Visa and MC

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  • NKYKev
    Confirmed User
    • Jul 2005
    • 283

    #1

    Court rules for Backpage against Visa and MC

    Article. So, if sexual materials and services are not supposed to be "High Risk" according to the FDIC Guidelines released in July of 2014, why are all adult sites still paying high risk fees? Wouldn't any such Visa or MC rule violate the rules of the FDIC now?

    Here is the 7th Circuit Court Opinion.
  • celandina
    Too lazy to set a custom title
    • Jun 2006
    • 11715

    #2
    Maybe there is a lawyer about who can read the 21 pages and give us a summary

    I was harping on PayPal elsewhere here and the various "risk assessors" at Visa and MCh around here. Maybe this is the tide turning...???

    Comment

    • potter
      Confirmed User
      • Dec 2004
      • 6559

      #3
      I'm not sure how you got that sexual materials aren't supposed to be high risk.

      The court case and that entire article is about denying processing to high risk services. Unless I missed something there wasn't a single blurb about issue with higher service fees.

      Comment

      • NKYKev
        Confirmed User
        • Jul 2005
        • 283

        #4
        Potter,

        While the Court case itself did not involve this issue, the article I referenced did. I will quote it below.

        Just a few months earlier, the FDIC went on record this clarifying its "high risk" guidance for banks, and guess what? Sex isn't in them, not even vaguely.

        That's thanks to a federal mess called Operation Choke Point, launched in 2013 by the US Financial Fraud Enforcement Task Force (FFETF). It targeted financial institutions working with third party processors (namely Paypal and Square) because they're bottlenecks for the flow of online payments.

        Choke Point relied on a vague FDIC guidance document; this year, the House Oversight Committee found collusion between the FDIC and FFETF, stating "The Committee has obtained substantial evidence suggesting that as a result of coordinated actions by the FDIC and the Department of Justice, banks are terminating relationships with entirely legitimate and licensed businesses." This led to leading to hearings by the House Judiciary Committee and the House Financial Services Committee, and lawsuits against the FDIC.

        Hence the FDIC's new, detailed guidance document for banks, one in which "reputational risk" is now omitted -- thus officially not enough a to deny or close an account. The FDIC's categories of "high risk" specify fraudulent goods and services, and tactics "such as aggressive telemarketing or enticing and misleading pop-up advertisements on Web sites."

        While "unlawful Internet gambling and the illegal sale of tobacco products on the Internet" are singled out as FDIC "high risk" areas, PayPal's "items that are considered obscene ... [or] certain sexually oriented materials or services" are most definitely not.

        Comment

        • celandina
          Too lazy to set a custom title
          • Jun 2006
          • 11715

          #5
          Can anybody here speak in plain English ??? Quoting sections of that gibberish does not help

          Comment

          • blackmonsters
            Making PHP work
            • Nov 2002
            • 20961

            #6
            Cliffs Notes : Doesn't say any of the shit OP is hoping for.

            .
            Free Open Source Live Aggregated Cams Script (FOSLACS)

            Comment

            • Barry-xlovecam
              It's 42
              • Jun 2010
              • 18083

              #7
              [S]heriff Dart, his office, and all employees, agents, or others who are acting or have acted for or on behalf of him, shall take no actions, formal or informal, to coerce or threaten credit card companies, processors, financial institutions, or other third parties with sanctions intended to ban credit card or other financial services from being pro- vided to Backpage.com. Sheriff Dart shall immediately upon receipt of this order transmit a copy electronically to Visa and MasterCard and all other recipients of his June 29, 2015, letter (including therefore the directors of and investors in Visa and MasterCard), as well as to the Chief Inspector of the United States Postal Service. Backpage.com shall not be required to post a security bond.

              REVERSED AND REMANDED , WITH DIRECTIONS
              The case was reversed and remanded back to the lower court with the instant issue being the Sheriff’s conduct was in violation of the First Amendment ... Speech that threatens is not protected speech.

              Credit card associations can choose what business and what terms they give as long as it is not illegal discrimination (race, creed. religion, etc..).

              VISA and Mastercard are not ordered to change the way they do business -- the Sheriff is ordered.

              Comment

              • NKYKev
                Confirmed User
                • Jul 2005
                • 283

                #8
                BM,
                The FDIC removing "reputational risks" from its High Risk Guidelines should change how sexual materials are judged, because they were automatically classified as high risk before based on that alone. And should remove some pressure on adult businesses that were being applied by the banks as well in reliance on this Guideline. I am sure you would have said that Backpage had no chance taking on Visa and MC either. Maybe when some company has the balls to test this in court we will get a real answer.

                Comment

                • NKYKev
                  Confirmed User
                  • Jul 2005
                  • 283

                  #9
                  BL,

                  While the direct action is against the Sheriff, the Court also held that the lower court erred in holding that Backpage had not been irreparably harmed by its abandonment by the credit card companies. If Visa and MC do not renew taking Backpage ads, do you think they would be upheld in a court action?

                  Comment

                  • MakeMeGrrrrowl
                    Grrrrrrrrr
                    • Oct 2002
                    • 4986

                    #10
                    Originally posted by socalkev
                    BL,

                    While the direct action is against the Sheriff, the Court also held that the lower court erred in holding that Backpage had not been irreparably harmed by its abandonment by the credit card companies. If Visa and MC do not renew taking Backpage ads, do you think they would be upheld in a court action?
                    Backpage is already taking payments again on a lot of accounts.

                    I thought the information said that backpage HAD been irreparably harmed by it's abandonment.

                    Comment

                    • NKYKev
                      Confirmed User
                      • Jul 2005
                      • 283

                      #11
                      MMG,

                      I think we are saying the same thing. The Federal District Court that originally heard the case ruled that Backpage had not been irreparably harmed by being denied credit card processing; the 7th Circuit held that it had indeed suffered such harm and the lower court was in error. That is why this is such a huge opinion; U.S. courts almost never find in favor of the interests of sexually oriented materials or companies.

                      Comment

                      • Barry-xlovecam
                        It's 42
                        • Jun 2010
                        • 18083

                        #12
                        That is reasoning and not the instant issue.

                        You are reading what you want to read into the Appellate court's reasoning. You are speculating I guess.

                        'Shall' is the operative word.

                        VISA and Mastercard were not a party named in the action. Any reinstatement is a business decision up to them.
                        In the United States Court of Appeals For the Seventh Circuit
                        ____________________
                        No. 15-3047
                        BACKPAGE.COM, LLC, Plaintiff-Appellant ,
                        v.
                        THOMAS J. DART, Sheriff of Cook County, Illinois, Defendant-Appellee
                        ** No business has a ''right'' to VISA or Mastercard. That is corporate policy vs. statutory law.
                        So long as corporate policy does not violate any statutory law it is sustained (allowed).

                        Comment

                        • $money$
                          So Fucking Banned
                          • Nov 2015
                          • 1416

                          #13
                          I used to advertise there years ago

                          Comment

                          • Barry-xlovecam
                            It's 42
                            • Jun 2010
                            • 18083

                            #14
                            irreparably harmed by its abandonment by the credit card companies,
                            That is a claim for damages and a separate claim but --- it is a claim that only the Sheriff has to defend if made in this case cause and effect.

                            Credit card processing, and in general banking relationships, are not a guaranteed 'right' per se. And only a right of freedom of commercial association when 'personhood' or public utility are in question. You have a right to the delivery of power to your home only contingent on a deposit (maybe -- as to creditworthiness) and/or payment monthly for the power used -- regardless of your standing or reputation otherwise, e.g.; crackhead or whoremonger.

                            To put it simply: If I own a private road and charge for passage I can set a total vehicle weight. If you cannot get to the other side because your truck is too heavy for my road -- too bad. It's my road, on my private property. If you have 4 naked whores in your van I can deny you passage as an undesirable -- that's my right on my private property.

                            Comment

                            • NKYKev
                              Confirmed User
                              • Jul 2005
                              • 283

                              #15
                              You are reading what you want to read into the Appellate court's reasoning. You are speculating I guess.
                              Actually, Barry, what I said regarding being "irreparably harmed by its abandonment by the credit card companies", as you quoted, is pretty much a direct quote from the actual Appellate Court opinion, if you had even bothered to read it. So I will quote it for you, from page 18 of the opinion.

                              And when, finally, the judge denied that there was evi-
                              dence that Backpage had been irreparably harmed by its
                              abandonment by the credit card companies, he again con-
                              tradicted himself....
                              Moreover, the trial court made the EXACT same argument you are trying to make here, that Visa and MC have the right to process whomever they want and Backpage has no remedy for it. Quoting from the original opinion by Judge Tharp:

                              Even if Backpage were correct, and it was not required to show that Dart's alleged threats had any coercive effect, the decision by the companies to terminate their relationships with Backpage because of the illegal and brand-damaging activity taking place in the adult section of Backpage.com is nevertheless relevant to show that injunctive relief is not appropriate here.
                              Obviously the Appellate Court disagreed with the District Court on this issue, as explained at length in the opinion. If Visa and MC simply had the right to process whomever they choose, as you argue, the issue would have been moot and the 7th Circuit would not have ordered the injunction. However, Visa and MC, and the banks they represent, are still subject to Federal law.

                              Comment

                              • TCLGirls
                                Confirmed User
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 3068

                                #16
                                You are making an inference based upon an inference. That has speculation written all over it

                                Comment

                                • celandina
                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                  • Jun 2006
                                  • 11715

                                  #17
                                  Its clearer to me: fuck the Sheriff now, but when he defends himslef he will take down Visa and Mch along with him...

                                  Comment

                                  • Barry-xlovecam
                                    It's 42
                                    • Jun 2010
                                    • 18083

                                    #18
                                    VISA and Mastercard were not named as Defendants in the original action nor enjoined in the Appellate Court's ruling.

                                    Hire a lawyer and sue VISA and Mastercard over this issue -- you will need provable damages -- cite this case if it's not further appealed ... Your torturous reading of this appeal won't get very far.

                                    I like the idea but it's just wishful thinking.

                                    It's unlawful to *knowingly* finance criminal activity -- the problem with Backpage is they were facilitating prostitution "escort service" yeah, right ... The instant issue was the Sheriff’s threats and coercion -- that was what the appeal was about.

                                    VISA and Mastercard will allow transactions of most legal adult content. So, what is the real issue or cause you have?

                                    Comment

                                    • NKYKev
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Jul 2005
                                      • 283

                                      #19
                                      Let me make this as clear as humanly possible to you, since you keep repeating the same arguments. Here is a link to the original trial court opinion: Opinion. In it, Judge Tharp agrees with every one of your arguments - Backpage is knowingly engaged in illegal activity by allowing prostitution ads, Backpage has no rights to credit card processing and thus has no remedy, so no need for an injunction - on and on. Like most courts, once it involves sexual materials or content, they find against them as hard as possible.

                                      By a 3-0 opinion, written by a Conservative Judge who almost got appointed to the Supreme Court (was considered for the position Alito got), the 7th Circuit rejected every one of the District Court's arguments - which are the exact same positions you keep regurgitating. Yes, the US Supreme Court might decide to hear an appeal, and yes, they could reverse it. But who is making conjecture now?

                                      What you seem incapable of realizing is that, even if Visa and MC are not parties to this appeal, their lawyers are smart enough to recognize that the 7th Circuit just made clear that Backpage suffered harm having their processing removed - but it seems you are comfortable with public officials engaging in, as one Visa executive called it, blackmail. Most would say that would violate "public policy" and be one of those exceptions you keep mentioning. It seems pretty clear the 7th Circuit would be a good place for Backpage to sue Visa and MC, if necessary. But no one wants to do that, or spend the money, if they can first make an example of the public official who caused the problem in the first place.

                                      So if Sheriff Dart orders CCBill and Epoch to hereby cease processing for all adult sites because children have been known to buy memberships and the process to ensure that only adults buy memberships is not 100% reliable, no matter what steps the billers take, you are okay with that? I mean after all, Backpage should be responsible for someone breaking the law, regardless of how many safeguards they employ, right? So why not CCBill and Epoch as well? Of course, Google and Bing deserve "safe harbor" protections because they are vanilla companies that just happen to allow adult sites to be listed on them....

                                      Comment

                                      • NKYKev
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Jul 2005
                                        • 283

                                        #20
                                        You are making an inference based upon an inference. That has speculation written all over it.
                                        TCL,

                                        That is a fair criticism. And maybe I am being too hopeful about this. But I do think it is huge for sexually related businesses to be judged based on the actual risks involved, just like other businesses, and not automatically be called "High Risk" because of the FDIC Guidelines. Even being less of a "High Risk" would be great.

                                        If you read the original District Court opinion, then read how the Appellate Court rips it apart, you have to be hopeful that maybe adult businesses are finally capable of getting a fair shake in the court system. Yes, it is only one opinion, but it is a start.

                                        Comment

                                        • Barry-xlovecam
                                          It's 42
                                          • Jun 2010
                                          • 18083

                                          #21
                                          Hire a lawyer
                                          You are hurting my head already

                                          Comment

                                          • candyflip
                                            Carpe Visio
                                            • Jul 2002
                                            • 43069

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam
                                            Hire a lawyer
                                            You are hurting my head already
                                            Maybe you should stop pretending to be one yourself.

                                            Spend you some brain.
                                            Email Me

                                            Comment

                                            • MiamiBoyz
                                              fgfdftre6
                                              • Oct 2012
                                              • 6690

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by $money$
                                              I used to advertise there years ago
                                              I get all of my "dates" from that site.

                                              Comment

                                              • potter
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Dec 2004
                                                • 6559

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by socalkev
                                                Potter,

                                                While the Court case itself did not involve this issue, the article I referenced did. I will quote it below.
                                                And again, they were referencing that per the court case basis of denying processing. Nothing they were discussing was referring to higher fees. This was all about denying processing.

                                                There are rules and regulations in place by these institutions about what they define as high risk. Some of those rules and regulations are used when defining what the processing fees will be.

                                                This case was about vendors being denied processing, and that case referenced the rules and regulations on what institutions defined as high risk. There is literally no issue or circumstance here about higher processing fees based on risk evaluation.

                                                Comment

                                                • NKYKev
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Jul 2005
                                                  • 283

                                                  #25
                                                  potter,

                                                  By the FDIC amending their High Risk Guidelines, at least now sexual based businesses should be evaluated based on actual risks, and while other factors, like the webmasters who still bang cards and use popups, etc, are still in play, at the least, there should be the potential for certain types of sexually based transactions to get better rates now. Banks want to make money and if they view these transactions as a lesser risk, they could offer better rates. The fact that Visa and MC are saying they do not pressure companies based on sexual content is what I found the most interesting part.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Brian mike
                                                    #Alberta51
                                                    • Oct 2014
                                                    • 8735

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by socalkev
                                                    The fact that Visa and MC are saying they do not pressure companies based on sexual content is what I found the most interesting part.
                                                    Very Interesting , Look promising!
                                                    Tube - Cam - Escorts - Top List
                                                    Menu Tab - Banner - Header Link - Blog Post
                                                    DM me

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Barry-xlovecam
                                                      It's 42
                                                      • Jun 2010
                                                      • 18083

                                                      #27
                                                      https://www.fdic.gov/regulations/exa...h19.html#2sub6
                                                      FDIC US law and banking regulation
                                                      Products and Marketing:

                                                      The merchant's line of business and/or the products offered as well as its marketing practices are key factors for management to consider when it evaluates the credit quality of a merchant. The Associations segment merchants according to activity because the type of activity often is a good indicator of risk. Thus, it stands to reason that examiners may expect acquiring banks to continually analyze their merchant portfolios along similar guidelines. Acquiring banks typically compile a prohibited or restricted merchant list which includes the types of merchants they are unwilling to sign or are willing to sign only under certain circumstances.

                                                      While the extent of product and marketing evaluations varies, considerations normally include review of the merchant's business plans, merchandise, and marketing practices and materials (for example, catalogs, brochures, telemarketing scripts, and advertisements). In addition, shipping, billing, and return policies can be reviewed for unusual or inappropriate practices (for instance, customers being billed long before merchandise is shipped). These considerations can help determine, among other things, if: the business is of a type that typically has high charge-back rates; the merchant is selling a legitimate product; sales methods are legitimate and not deceptive; product quality and price are consistent with projected sales and charge-back rates; and customers will be satisfied with products ordered. Merchants offering low-quality products or services tend to incur more charge-backs, thus dissuading many banks from signing them.

                                                      The merchant's sales volume and time frame within which product delivery is completed are other considerations to evaluate risk. Generally, the greater the sales volume and the longer the time between transactions and product delivery, the greater the risk. For example, when a restaurant closes, an acquiring bank typically has less exposure to charge-backs for undelivered goods and services. In contrast, the failure of a travel agency could expose an acquiring bank to substantial charge-backs due to the high volume of reservations common in the travel agency business.

                                                      Certain types of merchant businesses can present increased risk. Although there are many reputable merchants whose sales transactions occur without a credit card being present (card-not-hapresent merchants), these merchants generally present higher charge-back risks for acquiring banks. In particular, mail order and telemarketing (MO/TO) merchants and adult entertainment services merchants, in aggregate, tend to display elevated incidents of charge-backs. Merchants without an established storefront (for example, door-to-door salesman and flea market vendors) also typically pose greater risk for charge-backs. The risk of charge-back is also higher if the merchant sells products for future/delayed delivery, such as airline tickets, health club memberships, travel clubs, or internet purchases. The increased risk associated with future delivery of products results, in part, because customer disputes are normally not triggered until the date of delivery. High charge-back rates are also generally associated with certain selling methods, such as sales pitches involving gifts, cash prizes, sweepstakes, installment payments, multi-level marketing, and automatic renewals unless the consumer opts out. Association regulations define certain broad business categories as high-risk merchants. These categories in general present higher risk, but each individual merchant in the category may not necessarily be high risk. Appropriate procedures and risk controls for high-risk merchants generally include:
                                                      • Criteria for determining the types of merchants the bank is or is not willing to sign and under what circumstances.
                                                      • Increased emphasis on underwriting considerations regarding products and marketing in evaluating the merchants.
                                                      • Limitations on the volume of high-risk merchant transactions processed relative to the bank's total merchant portfolio.
                                                      • Criteria for determining the appropriate level of holdback or reserve accounts to sufficiently cover the level of credit risk.
                                                      • Appropriate pricing of these merchants in relation to the charge-back risk and any costs associated with increased monitoring.
                                                      • Heightened monitoring and problem resolution. For example, for charge-back monitoring, banks may set lower charge-back thresholds for required remedial action and/or a shorter timeline for problem resolution for those merchants exceeding acceptable charge-back thresholds.
                                                      • Compliance with bankcard regulations regarding registration of certain high-risk merchants and assigning proper Merchant Category Codes (MCC) to merchants.
                                                      Now WTF are you trying to say?

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Barry-xlovecam
                                                        It's 42
                                                        • Jun 2010
                                                        • 18083

                                                        #28
                                                        Same URL^

                                                        Risks Associated with Merchant Processing

                                                        Reputation Risk
                                                        Reputation risk arising from negative public opinion can affect a bank's ability to establish new relationships or services or to continue servicing existing relationships. This risk can expose the bank to litigation, financial loss, or damage to its public image. The bank's business decisions for marketing and pricing its merchant processing services can affect its reputation in the marketplace. Reputation risk is also associated with the bank's ability to fulfill contractual obligations to merchants and third parties. Most notably, the outsourcing of any part of the merchant processing business easily increases reputation risk. Decisions made by the acquiring bank or its third-parties can directly cause loss of merchant relationships, litigation, fines and penalties as well as charge-back losses. Concerns normally arise when the acquiring bank does not maintain strong processes for performing due diligence on prospective merchants and third-parties or perform ongoing evaluations of existing merchant and third-party relationships.
                                                        These are the FDIC Manual recommendations to Acquiring Banks. e.g.; "working rules"

                                                        And that was why VISA and Mastercard were not joined as Defendants nor enjoined parties by the orders of the Appellate court.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • NKYKev
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • Jul 2005
                                                          • 283

                                                          #29
                                                          Barry,

                                                          Let me quote again from the Engadget article:
                                                          Hence the FDIC's new, detailed guidance document for banks, one in which "reputational risk" is now omitted -- thus officially not enough to deny or close an account. The FDIC's categories of "high risk" specify fraudulent goods and services, and tactics "such as aggressive telemarketing or enticing and misleading pop-up advertisements on Web sites."

                                                          While "unlawful Internet gambling and the illegal sale of tobacco products on the Internet" are singled out as FDIC "high risk" areas, PayPal's "items that are considered obscene ... [or] certain sexually oriented materials or services" are most definitely not.
                                                          Here is a link to the FDIC Guidelines as revised after the House hearings on Operation Chokepoint. Please find anything regarding "reputational risk" in this document. https://www.fdic.gov/regulations/exa.../managing.html. And again, the District Court SPECIFICALLY held that Backpage suffered no damage because Visa and MC could deny them processing based on them taking "illegal and pornographic" advertising and the "repuational risks" involved - which the 7th Circuit OVERRULED 3-0. So, once again, your exact argument was rejected by a unanimous panel of Federal Appellate Court Judges.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Barry-xlovecam
                                                            It's 42
                                                            • Jun 2010
                                                            • 18083

                                                            #30
                                                            This case is very limited in scope to coercion and prior restraint of speech by governmental "color of authority." It was about a shakedown by a Sheriff and confers no guaranteed right to credit card processing to anyone.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • NKYKev
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Jul 2005
                                                              • 283

                                                              #31
                                                              Then explain why the 7th Circuit would find irreparable harm from Backpage losing their credit card processing and grant an injunction if Visa and MC could just cut it off at their whim, as you keep arguing. Why did the 7th Circuit override the District Court, which found for the Sheriff BECAUSE it held that Visa and MC could do just that? I will be waiting for your reply. Perhaps you can educate the Judges on the 7th Circuit about the law.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • MikeAMS
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • Sep 2015
                                                                • 364

                                                                #32
                                                                Interesting article indeed. But lot of guys here are trying to look for just 1 simple answer.
                                                                Unfortunately I think it does not work like this...
                                                                Just like all the other businesses and industries out there, this industry consist out of many different supply chains and new business models are being launched almost daily.
                                                                Furthermore we have to keep in mind that this is a very international industry so it also means many different laws will apply.
                                                                And to make it even worse, on top of this there are a lot of exceptions.. (eg: in case the company has an extremely high turnover some banks are willing to take more risks, but I guess this is within every industry).

                                                                Contact me or my buddy Jason if you would like to know more concerning your personal situation..
                                                                E: [email protected]
                                                                Skype: mikedejong22
                                                                W: http://www.islive.com , http://www.twero.com


                                                                "Money often costs too much."
                                                                Ralph Waldo Emerson

                                                                Comment

                                                                • MetaMan
                                                                  I AM WEB 2.0
                                                                  • Jan 2003
                                                                  • 28682

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam
                                                                  This case is very limited in scope to coercion and prior restraint of speech by governmental "color of authority." It was about a shakedown by a Sheriff and confers no guaranteed right to credit card processing to anyone.
                                                                  Why do you talk like a wannabe lawyer? You sound like an ASSHAT!

                                                                  "scope to coercion and prior restraint of speech by governmental "color of authority.""

                                                                  Please stop! I can't take the hilarity!

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Barry-xlovecam
                                                                    It's 42
                                                                    • Jun 2010
                                                                    • 18083

                                                                    #34
                                                                    I won't respond to an rude Argumentum Ad Hominem. Fuck off

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • kkkkkk
                                                                      svp get banned svp
                                                                      • Dec 2005
                                                                      • 1628

                                                                      #35

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • drriley
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Mar 2007
                                                                        • 263

                                                                        #36
                                                                        I'd describe Backpage.com as one of the biggest rackets out there, and I'm surprised that there hasn't been a Class Action proceeding against them yet.

                                                                        They routinely and randomly delete paid advertising - claiming that it is up to individual reviewers whether an ad meets Backpage's policies regarding adult advertising content, but then Backpage management says there are no WRITTEN policies and that it is up to any individual reviewer to pick and choose at their discretion - and this explains how and why sometimes the identical ad runs without issue, and other times it is deleted; or sometimes an ad is deleted because it is "obscene," but 5 ads immediately surrounding it that have far more extreme content are deemed suitable.

                                                                        I have previously sought chargebacks against Backpage when paying with Visa. Visa's position was that as long as they RUN the ad then they are deemed, by Visa, to be in compliance. They can immediately delete the ad, and they can undertake arbitrary actions of any nature and type they wish, but if the ad ran for a few seconds then it ran, and Visa will not chargeback.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • JFK
                                                                          FUBAR the ORIGINATOR
                                                                          • Jan 2002
                                                                          • 67373

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by celandina
                                                                          Can anybody here speak in plain English ??? Quoting sections of that gibberish does not help

                                                                          FUBAR Webmasters - The FUBAR Times - FUBAR Webmasters Mobile - FUBARTV.XXX
                                                                          For promo opps contact jfk at fubarwebmasters dot com

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • mikesouth
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Jun 2003
                                                                            • 6334

                                                                            #38
                                                                            I had a University of AL law professor who has done this kind of thing totally ready to file a class action against VISA/MC over the "high risk fees"

                                                                            When I brought it up (here as well) the consensus was that nobody wanted to do it because they could piss off VISA/MC into no longer taking payments for porn.

                                                                            Bottom line is it wrong...yes

                                                                            Can they do it anyway yes
                                                                            Mike South

                                                                            It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Bladewire
                                                                              StraightBro
                                                                              • Aug 2003
                                                                              • 56228

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by mikesouth
                                                                              I had a University of AL law professor who has done this kind of thing totally ready to file a class action against VISA/MC over the "high risk fees"

                                                                              When I brought it up (here as well) the consensus was that nobody wanted to do it because they could piss off VISA/MC into no longer taking payments for porn.

                                                                              Bottom line is it wrong...yes

                                                                              Can they do it anyway yes
                                                                              The key is to sway public opinion, then litigate. When you're the target of a case, and you try to sway public opinion, you're already behind the 8 ball.


                                                                              Skype: CallTomNow

                                                                              Comment

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