:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:thumbsup:1orglaugh:thumbsup

comedy is all about timing.

I love it when ignorant people call me ignorant. LOL I may be ignint but I know how to spell and use proper English.

Most of my ex-girlfriends. :D

I am labeling them that because that is what is clear from the positions they take on the subject. I am not taking a position on Deen's guilt or innocence. However, the excuses people are making based on the hearsay, the blatant trolling, etc. from people in this thread is 100% misogynist and in my opinion that makes them troglodytes.

And neanderthals too now that you mention it.

There ya go with those big words again :upsidedow

You may not agree or understand the logic but that is entirely your own fault and lack of sensitivity to the issues. Understanding of why a SAFE WORD is critically important in those types of relationships, and comprehension of what it means to ignore a "NO" when that line is drawn is everything, couldn't agree more with Dyna Mo. You may see it as a "grey area" but being in this biz you should know better. The trust and security of having a safe word to help define that limit and boundary is 100% based on trust and acknowledgement so violating that trust is just black and white.

So to answer your question, yes, if there was a safe word that was ignored and something like rape or accidental death occurred then the person that did not heed the call and crossed the line is responsible.

This doesn't have to even be a "feminist" issue at all because the same principals would apply to even a same sex relationship.

One never knows when that Word-A-Day calendar is going to come in handy... you just have to bide your time and know you have a solid line of credit on the $.50 cent words... :winkwink:

says the sesquipedalian.

grown men feeling high and mighty about being the auto correct police is quite funny.
it shows a total lack of any depth beyond that of a internet board idiot.

ANSWER THIS.
IF SHE CONSENTED TO FANTASY RAPE CAN SHE THEN CRY RAPE?

I think that is a very very gray area at best, regardless of a safe word and put the burden of the situation on the persons consent to enter such a role play.

Did he continue to fuck for 30 seconds or 1 minutes or did he keep her hostage and beat her for 3 days. If its anything close to the former then a rape accusation is very over the top.

Also jezze, she posted it on fucking twitter, Until she makes a formal police report this is all just an accusation with no facts beyond 150 char post which makes her accusation of rape look even less credible.

im not advocating rape at all just putting this in context of what seemed to have happened.

from whats known she to have very weak stance for an accusation of rape.

There you go again. You never learn, do you?

You must be ignorant or something.

Let me learn you a lesson son. Your sentence should read thusly:

it shows a total lack of any depth beyond that of an internet board idiot

We'll leave the fact that you forgot to capitalize the first letter of your sentence for Lesson 2.

i certainly agree that running to twitter is not the way to handle it. and sure, fantasy rape has gray areas that make defining a safe word important, assuming this, as i've never participated in that or witnessed it.

nevertheless, my post to you was re: a safe word specifically and the fact it is a distinct and clear boundary understood to not be crossed while engaging in extreme sex. it doesn't mean, well, i'm about to bust a nut so hold on. or no means yes, or anything other than stop right now.

Do you personally know anyone into these types of fantasies that indulges in this as a lifestyle choice? Perhaps a friend could get it through to you so you understand. Going even one second past the call to stop is wrong. Those into this type of thing will tell you how important that trust and understanding is to the whole relationship. Fantasy is one thing but when it is going too far there has to be an acknowledgement and consent and agreement to stop. Trying to test that limit beyond what a person desires means it is no longer serving the fantasy of the one and only serving the desire of the other and that makes it non-consensual.

Make sense?

I've produced 200+ bdsm movies so yes i know about this.

"Going even one second past the call to stop is wrong."
BUT IS IT RAPE IN THE COMMON SENSE OF THE TERM?
I DONT THINK SO.
WRONG YES. RAPE IN THE COMMON SENSE? DEFINITELY NO.
ESPECIALLY WHEN THE CONSENTED FANTASY BEING PLAYED IS RAPE.
AND YES IT MATTERS WHAT LINE WAS CROSSED.
DID THE DOM CONTINUE FOR 1MIN OR DID DOM CONTINUE FOR 3HRS. MATTERS WHEN THROWING THE TERM RAPE AROUND AND LABELING SOMEONE AS A RAPIST.

at some point past saying stop, consensual sex becomes nonconsensual right?

Like i said its a very gray area, especially when the consent was for rape play.
Rape is a very serious accusation and these details in such a scenario matter.
It also matters what line was crossed.

guy is an arrogant prick

if it's not rape, then what is it? assault? nothing?

its certainly something.

i feel the details of the scenario would determine what it would be called.
it may actually be rape but rape is a very strong word to throw around.
and given that we know she contented to extreme play starting (ie safe work being used) it better be a major line he crossed to call someone a rapist to 200k followers.

i can't say if its right or wrong in this case but she better have a MAJOR reason to do that given that she was consented with extreme play starting.

This is especially true if one is part of a community of sex positive polyamorous lovers. If someone went even one second past a safe word the rest of the community would hear of it immediately and that person could no longer play with that group.

Very serious indeed.

So far I have not seen anywhere that she has said that Deen outright raped her.

She qualifies it by saying he "raped her as a feminist"

Isn't that only a half-accusation?

Once again - he seems like a monster I'm not taking his side, I believe in no-means-no but if there was a grey area here (they were in the midst of having consensual sex when the "rape" occurred?) then she made it a LOT Greyer with the raped the feminist remark.

The only point that you should take note of is that they had a safe word. That is something they would have discussed and agreed upon *before* beginning any sexual contact.

So if they both agreed on a word that would be used to break OUT of the fantasy. If that word is then ignored when it is used in exactly the circumstances that they both had discussed it was to be used... That doesn't strike you as against the other person's consent?

And what is this "unavailable until blah blah" shit about? You cannot access Twitter wherever you are Stoya?

To be 100% fair here is probably what happened: James Deen is a jerk to many women in porn and now Stoya (and others) want to ruin his rep. Maybe it's justified, maybe it isn't. But "rape" should bring with it evidence and criminal charges. If not, it's hearsay and inflammatory.

As sad as it may be for feminists and the issue of rape, Stoya's allegations may end up doing more harm than good. If not true and/or she can't prove them it will make taking porn girls (or any woman's) rape allegations less serious.

I read that a few times and feel as though maybe she messed up the grammar on that post.

ie

This :
Should have been ?

Not such a huge stretch, I know I stuff up grammar on my phone all the time and don't bother fixing it, although this has a far greater meaning....

I disagree, it takes a lot of courage for these women to speak up, especially when it is against an influential person / person they see as powerful in their industry.

Look at history and how other powerful / influential men (abusers) have been brought down by one woman speaking up then others feeling empowered to do the same.

Don't shame these women for not having the courage to speak up when the event happened, applaud them for having the courage to speak up now.

qft......

I agree totally. Sorry if my point was lost there. :) But the way in which Stoya did this/is doing this is not the best strategy in my opinion. Too much room to call her tactics and motives into question. But I absolutely believe women should feel safe to speak out when assaulted and if this is the end result then something great has come of this.

If I were a Miss Universe pageant contestant my answer, when asked what my dream was, would be: "The total and complete eradication of rape, assault and sexual slavery on Earth." I wouldn't win, of course. LOL

I honestly do not know the best way these types of things could be handled, all I think is that there would be a huge amount of emotions involved. That usually doesn't help with adopting the best strategy at the best of times.

I don't wanna sound like a queer or nothin but that was a pretty badass post. :thumbsup

Well, standing behind the statement/allegation and not dropping it like a bomb then disappearing for a month would be a good start. :)

Agreed. :thumbsup

she has the courage to call it out on twitter publicly but to not bring charges.
she consented to rape play but then doesn't like it went a bit far.

that doesn't add up. a lot doest add up to a rape accusation here.

this sounds a lot more like what happening IMO.

the whole post on twitter but no chargers yay but get followers, ruin the #1 guys rep , lock and pin an advertisement on her twitter, no criminal charges, consent to rape play then take it back when its done...

all sounds fishy to me.

On Stoya's twitter, The pinned link to her site with a Deen scene featured in the top spot is so suspect :2 cents:

So when a model in one of your movies asks to stop and she uses her safe word what happens next? Do you stop, take a breath, think about how much more you are willing to pay for her to deliver the goods, gather your patience and start negotiating?

I went to the Max Hardcore school of Porn so I would also claim a certain knowledge and appreciation for the shades of grey.

So...

Are you thinking more about what the customers wants, your bottom line, the bills that need to be paid or are you thinking more about the well being and welfare of the model and the predicaments she or he may also be facing affecting the choices that weigh in on such a moment? You know, walking a mile in their moccasins, then sure, it might be shades of grey but only because you stopped when asked to stop.

But when it comes to using safe words...

Every single bdsm person I know, in the industry, out of the industry, every thing I have ever read, heard, researched, experienced in my own experimentation, everything and everyone stresses the importance of a safe word meaning "NO - STOP - STOP NOW". It is like that for a reason. With your background in shooting this type of content I am pretty shocked that you would be trying defend this as being a mistaken case of misunderstood consent. There is no grey when it comes to consent even in rape play. It is yes or no just like there is no sort of "pregnant". One second, one minute, hours, whatever. Time is not the issue at that point, just the degree to which the wrong is further committed.

When Max was accused of rape years ago, before he even established the Max character, models came to his defense. Are there any models coming to Deen's defense? Seems like just the opposite, including those actively and openly into this lifestyle.

Once again, I am not judging Deen or the women involved. I am just saying if she said stop and he didn't then it should be called what it is.

Wow. Agree. That would be the most fucked up publicity stunt I have ever seen in the biz. More nuts than that CE classic "Trunked". More twisted than "bum fights"... and that is saying something.

NO SHIT GENIUS!? I THOUGHT I COULD JUST PRINT SOMETHING UP AT MY OFFICE TO CHARGE SOMEONE WITH A CRIME. thanks man would i look dumb if i actually did that.

The reality is that if Stoya did go to the police to report the incident as a rape, they would react the same way the majority of this thread has reacted.

At the end of the day it is a "he said, she said" situation unless she somehow has proof. Going to the police would have done nothing, whether there was a crime or not.

I agree. I just don't like the running and hiding after making the allegation.

Personally, JUST my opinion, I think Stoya knew - being Deen's GF - that Deen had a bad rep with female talent. And being a woman she probably heard all the horror stories. So dropping a line like she did would throw open the floodgates and others would support her, which is what's happening. It's the only way she could fight this fight but still, something doesn't smell right here.

:thumbsup

nothing to do with the OP and the ridiculous agenda pushing going on, but to address this part of the thread:

how fucked up for anyone to think a safe word is anything other than an absolute, unequivocal, non-interpretational, clear as fucking day message to "STOP!"

No means no, even if I'm balls deep and 30 seconds from jizzing... I can't think of anything more of a turn-off than a woman telling me to stop tbh, giving that clear indication she isn't enjoying herself... though I realise this board is filled with idiots who will self-justify carrying on. And that includes using a safe word in place of 'no', if that's the way I'm playing that day. What kind of brain-dead sack of shit can't comprehend that every other sound means nothing, but safe_word_here means STOP NOW!

jesus fucking christ there are some cunts around.

Let me preface this by stating I think James Deen is an obnoxious cunt of a manchild, and Stoya is a pseudo-intellectual asshat who has read a book once and now is, somehow, the female voice of this industry. Let me also say that if he did indeed not stop once she said stop then he needs his ass kicked physically, and judicially.

Now that's out of the way... is nobody else picking up on the insane levels of fuckery this has thrown up? Announcing it in public, not to law enforcement, on Twitter months after the incident happened and then immediately saying she will be unreachable to contact for 2 weeks? "Hey guys! James Deen raped me! See you in 2 weeks! Check out my pinned tweet, yo! Bye!" Like what the fuck? And then today Kayden Kross's post in which she states that James Deen content will not be removed from her and Stoyas site due to...

"Our scheduling is slated months in advance and it?s admittedly bad timing that it happened to go live now, but our licensor stands behind it, and so we do too. This is also a movie filmed back in 2013, and also a scene that, if deleted, will ruin the project as a whole."

Does that not seem bananas to anyone else that she/they are justifying keeping, and thus profiting directly off, the James Deen content due to....... ARTISTIC reasons?

CNN just picked the story up, so that will add to the huge surge in traffic to that site they've got over the last few days, I mean, this can't be a stunt, right? I don't know about you guys, and I understand business is business, but if my friend Y said X raped her the last thing I'd do is try and justify that continuing to profit from content featuring her (alleged) rapist is FINE.... as to do otherwise would, somehow, be wrong from their "project". Something is very off about this, very off indeed. :2 cents: