GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum (https://gfy.com/index.php)
-   Fucking Around & Business Discussion (https://gfy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=26)
-   -   Hey DDF, Go Fuck Yourself! (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1178617)

Forkbeard 11-16-2015 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpicyM (Post 20637149)
If you earn money, it's a business and you need to register as a self-empoyed person in your country. Otherwise, you are doing it illegally :winkwink:

Marco's profile says he is in Italy. Do you actually know the legal requirements for carrying on a hobby business in Italy? Or are you just talking out your ass?

Forkbeard 11-16-2015 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFurry (Post 20637157)
Btw the "bill to" address mentioned above... I think it's clear that it's their info that you have to put in the Bill To field of the invoice.

It would have been "clear" if they said they needed an invoice "via email to [email protected]" or said "the invoice should show the following billing address". In the email they actually wrote, they said "we need an invoice" and then provided a physical address for it.

BigFurry 11-16-2015 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20637169)
It would have been "clear" if they said they needed an invoice "via email to [email protected]" or said "the invoice should show the following billing address". In the email they actually wrote, they said "we need an invoice" and then provided a physical address for it.

That's true. Hopefully they will clear it up.

SpicyM 11-16-2015 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20637163)
Marco's profile says he is in Italy. Do you actually know the legal requirements for carrying on a hobby business in Italy? Or are you just talking out your ass?

hobby business? :1orglaugh

..and tax free.. :1orglaugh

xXXtesy10 11-16-2015 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddfcash (Post 20636802)
Wow....we got Terrorists ravaging our World and I wake up to this. Ridiculous. All it takes is for a webmaster to contact us, and you will have your answers once we get to your email. Thank you to all webmasters who are understanding of what's happening here. I appreciate your intelligible words.

We know it's a fairly new way of doing things, but we are not the only Program now requiring an invoice. This was a heads up. We are not controlling, or reporting anyone here, that's not our job, but we need to be in compliance with current accounting regulations and know who we are doing business with. What you submit is up to you, but if you are operating in a legal manner, you should be submitting proper company, name and address information to our Program. I can't tell you how many affiliate Profiles I see with country as USA or Europe and address as timbuktu.

The invoicing will become more streamlined and you'll receive messages and an easy upload center for submitting invoices is coming. No one mentioned anything about a paper invoice. Invoices can easily be generated on various online outlets for Free. Here is one example :

create.onlineinvoices.com/invoices-generator/create/3

To make things a bit clearer, this is not required for our December payout period, but for anything afterwards, it will be required. You don't have to submit an invoice every month, just when you want to get paid out. If you prefer to submit an invoice every 3 or 6 months, that is no problem. Were not looking to keep anyone's payments and if you wanna drop us for being compliant, well we probably don't need you promoting us anyway.

If you haven't noticed already, things are changing rapidly in the landscape, and being accountable will be the norm, so don't put us up on a cross and ding us as an "Evil" program for doing the right thing. If you have anymore bitches or complaints, feel free to email Paul directly at [email protected].

eat shit creampie

Forkbeard 11-16-2015 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpicyM (Post 20637180)
hobby business? :1orglaugh

..and tax free.. :1orglaugh

Tax free? Not hardly. The IRS in the US actually classifies certain businesses (usually persistent loss-makers) as "hobby businesses" precisely so that they can disallow losses from those businesses being deducted against other income. Hobby businesses are a real thing in this country and they pay taxes, you can laugh all you want but it's still true. You're just proving you shouldn't be giving international tax advice.

SpicyM 11-16-2015 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20637190)
Tax free? Not hardly. The IRS in the US actually classifies certain businesses (usually persistent loss-makers) as "hobby businesses" precisely so that they can disallow losses from those businesses being deducted against other income. Hobby businesses are a real thing in this country and they pay taxes, you can laugh all you want but it's still true. You're just proving you shouldn't be giving international tax advice.

And those "hobby businesses" can't issue invoices or what is your point?

Marco68 11-16-2015 11:33 AM

A few days ago I contacted Paul with a private email searching solutions/suggestions to my situation (as private person and not company) and I have to admit he was very nice.
For me the best way to stay in touch with an affiliate, chapeau :thumbsup

Forkbeard 11-16-2015 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpicyM (Post 20637200)
And those "hobby businesses" can't issue invoices or what is your point?

My point is that you were talking out your ass when you tried to be all superior and suggest that he was doing something illegal unless he "registered". When in fact you had no fucking idea if that was true or not.

SekobA 11-16-2015 11:50 AM

Drama lama

Forkbeard 11-16-2015 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco68 (Post 20637297)
A few days ago I contacted Paul with a private email searching solutions/suggestions to my situation (as private person and not company) and I have to admit he was very nice.

Yes, that's one of the reasons I was so disappointed in the email last week and then in Paul's followup here on GFY where he tried to insinuate that people concerned by the vague new requirements were somehow shady and undesirable as affiliates.

I've dealt positively with Paul in the past. His input helped get me paid last June on some money I was due in February. After seven emails, I came away convinced the program was honest but bureaucratic. I should have gotten my money without having to ask for it (much less argue for it) but there were plausible reasons offered for why that didn't happen. I was a satisfied affiliate at the end of the exchange.

But: that history makes me less charitable than I otherwise would be, when the company announces that it no longer intends to pay people automatically. Paying people without demand should be the default policy. If you change from that default policy, it needs a much better explanation than the vague and menacing affiliate email this thread is complaining about.

SpicyM 11-16-2015 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20637314)
My point is that you were talking out your ass when you tried to be all superior and suggest that he was doing something illegal unless he "registered". When in fact you had no fucking idea if that was true or not.


Really, hobbyist... The principle is the same, especially in EU. If you do legal business, you sure can issue invoices. :321GFY

xXXtesy10 11-16-2015 12:36 PM

fuck ddf :321GFY

Marco68 11-16-2015 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20637373)
.............it needs a much better explanation

Yes, I think the same.

Receiving the email I was very disappointed too but I appreciate when there is the possibility to discuss and find a solution.

I promote many different sites and some of them don't know the words "SUPPORT - Get in touch with us". This is frustrating especially because money is often the bone of contention :(

The Porn Nerd 11-16-2015 01:59 PM

I have no comment on what's going on here other than to say that Mr. Forkbeard is one damn articulate, intelligent, reasonable, clear-minded and patient affiliate and ANY Program would be honored to have him promote their shit.

Excellent posts Forkbeard!

jscott 11-16-2015 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anexsia (Post 20634377)
lol what the fuck?!

exactly! :disgust

ddfcash 11-17-2015 02:05 AM

Thanks to everyone who actually get's this, and understands that were not trying to kill our program and just get with the times. Our plan is to make this as seamless as possible for affiliates, not make it more difficult to get payed out. That's not our intention. We've been in the online business for 15 years, and in the industry for over 30 years, were not in the practice of destroying our hard work.

Forkbeard, you have alot of time on your hands, lucky you. I wont respond to all your comments, I have no personal battle with you. I have no idea who you are nor will I assume anything about your character, I will tell you I'm not Dutch, I'm American, born and raised in New York, served in the Military and defended our land in the good ole US of A...so your words are simply laughable to me.

Could our initial message have been more clear, Yes, and once I get more info in from our accounting team, I will provide all pertinent data to affiliates who wish to continue promoting us. I tend to not waste my time on these forums because those who get it and are working hard don't start senseless verbal battles here. Too much work to get done for that. So write whatever you wish, but know that i'm not going to read it. Any serious questions or concerns can be directed to my Email.....yes email not snail mail. Cheers all. Have a nice week ahead and may your business prosper in the New year.

McSpike 11-17-2015 02:33 AM

I have been issuing invoices for a decade and nobody ever wanted them. I just filed them and that was it. THAT is considered normal. I never understood how that fuck can you even do business without having an invoice from the party you are paying for services provided to you. Nonetheless US companies (or were they offshore?) simply paid and cared less. Some asked for WBEN form. Ok. I provided. So DDF asking for an invoice is just how business should be run. The only difference is that they provide a darn sort of form to upload the invoice so we can send it over.

jscott 11-17-2015 02:35 AM

Most long time affiliates have 100's or 1000's of sponsors they promote. I actively promote probably 200, hows that for wasted time, spending all day for few days just sending out invoices. Imagine that! Sounds terrible.

BigFurry 11-17-2015 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSpike (Post 20638161)
I have been issuing invoices for a decade and nobody ever wanted them. I just filed them and that was it. THAT is considered normal. I never understood how that fuck can you even do business without having an invoice from the party you are paying for services provided to you. Nonetheless US companies (or were they offshore?) simply paid and cared less. Some asked for WBEN form. Ok. I provided. So DDF asking for an invoice is just how business should be run. The only difference is that they provide a darn sort of form to upload the invoice so we can send it over.

This.

You go to any European accountant and they'll be shocked that companies in online adult don't want invoices and sometimes won't even tell you their business details.

Paperwork & invoices are obviously horrible and time-consuming, but it's required for those who want to run their business legally.

nyllover 11-17-2015 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFurry (Post 20638172)
You go to any European accountant and they'll be shocked that companies in online adult don't want invoices and sometimes won't even tell you their business details.

Exactly what i wanted to add to all this. DDF is just following the law, that's all.

NewNick 11-17-2015 03:26 AM

What a gang of amateurs you lot are.

Raise an invoice. Simples.

Its a document you create in Word or Excell.

It has your Name / Company name and address on it, the name and address of the program or company you want to be paid from, the amount you wish to be paid, and usually some payment details.

Then you email it.

You save yourself a copy and then your records are then in order for your own tax regulator.

Nothing could be simpler.

I find it absolutely bizarre that a company putting its house in order is somehow called SHADY.

The only shady fuckers in this thread are the ones that are wittering about pulling links.

Un-fucking real.

:2 cents:

_Richard_ 11-17-2015 04:10 AM

i believe this is needed for VAT reasons, i have a few affiliates that require us to issue invoices with affiliate payouts

we're probably going to be seeing a lot more of this sort of thing as tax law catches up with the internet

DDF is good people

robwod 11-17-2015 04:44 AM

Without looking closely, I'd venture to guess that 90% of our European clients require invoices for payouts, though none of the affiliate programs do so).

Jscott: if you use an accounting program, you can likely set a threshold for payment and auto generate an invoice. Even a tool like Excel can do it if you like.



The nice thing about this sort of process is that you always know who has paid, and when they have paid. And right down to the penny and the exact date.

Forkbeard 11-17-2015 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 20637501)
I have no comment on what's going on here other than to say that Mr. Forkbeard is one damn articulate, intelligent, reasonable, clear-minded and patient affiliate and ANY Program would be honored to have him promote their shit.

Excellent posts Forkbeard!

Why thank you! It seems to have fallen on willfully deaf ears, though. Oh well...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

MrVids 11-17-2015 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscott (Post 20638162)
Most long time affiliates have 100's or 1000's of sponsors they promote. I actively promote probably 200, hows that for wasted time, spending all day for few days just sending out invoices. Imagine that! Sounds terrible.

Exactly.

Not only that, but I also manage the members area for 2 notable paysite programs. They've both asked that I removed DDF from rotation.

For most, a single affiliate program accounts for little of your overall revenues be it a members area promotion or if you have a large network of sites.

We are removing them from our network as well as the 2 members areas, much as we did with Hegre. Both companies are seasoned enough to know that with this move some attrition is expected, I'm sure they'll make it up by keeping checks from honest affiliates who don't regularly monitor all the programs they push.

The Porn Nerd 11-17-2015 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20638299)
Why thank you! It seems to have fallen on willfully deaf ears, though. Oh well...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You're welcome (and thanks for signing up to my Program). The problem here is with Europeans and their arrogance. I see it all the time, it's quite passive-aggressive.

The tax laws are quite different between the EU and the US. Requiring Invoices is not a problem per se but it's HOW the company requires it is the issue I think. Want an invoice? OK - make it easy for me, have a template ready, or just require an email with the Invoice sent. It's not a huge issue - BUT the arrogance and nastiness coming from Europeans regarding this issue has to stop.

Hey DDF (and all other European Programs): want US/Canada/UK traffic and sales? These are the highest-converting countries with the best traffic and sales that everyone wants most, right? Then try NOT to be arrogant DICKS about your new VAT requirements and we may just play along. But if not guess what??? We will survive just fine by not promoting your shit.

But I'm sure Euro companies will be happy with Hungarian, Romanian and Chinese traffic only eh?

xXXtesy10 11-17-2015 11:39 AM

DDF can eat shit, links pulled.

Roald 11-17-2015 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 20638565)
You're welcome (and thanks for signing up to my Program). The problem here is with Europeans and their arrogance. I see it all the time, it's quite passive-aggressive.

The tax laws are quite different between the EU and the US. Requiring Invoices is not a problem per se but it's HOW the company requires it is the issue I think. Want an invoice? OK - make it easy for me, have a template ready, or just require an email with the Invoice sent. It's not a huge issue - BUT the arrogance and nastiness coming from Europeans regarding this issue has to stop.

Hey DDF (and all other European Programs): want US/Canada/UK traffic and sales? These are the highest-converting countries with the best traffic and sales that everyone wants most, right? Then try NOT to be arrogant DICKS about your new VAT requirements and we may just play along. But if not guess what??? We will survive just fine by not promoting your shit.

But I'm sure Euro companies will be happy with Hungarian, Romanian and Chinese traffic only eh?

I was expecting a bit more from you but ok

The Porn Nerd 11-17-2015 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald (Post 20638688)
I was expecting a bit more from you but ok

Don't take it personally man. I love a lot of Europeans! But when it comes to requirements and details and regulations you guys take the cake. VAT, Invoices, accounting issues....the EU sucks balls when it comes to these things. ALL can be dealt with, as I said, but when the arrogance of "do what we say or fuck you we don't need (or want) you anyway" comes our way we non-Europeans take offense.

I would expect you to see that side of things Roald but ok. :)

faxxaff 11-17-2015 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_ (Post 20638198)
i believe this is needed for VAT reasons, i have a few affiliates that require us to issue invoices with affiliate payouts

we're probably going to be seeing a lot more of this sort of thing as tax law catches up with the internet

DDF is good people

Actually, if one really wanted to issue an invoice to DDF, they would need to follow legal accounting requirements and include DDF's VAT number on that invoice. Since DDF didn't publish their VAT number inside their latest email, it is impossible to issue a proper invoice to them in the first place. Why don't they know that?

onwebcam 11-17-2015 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faxxaff (Post 20638884)
Actually, if one really wanted to issue an invoice to DDF, they would need to follow legal accounting requirements and include DDF's VAT number on that invoice. Since DDF didn't publish their VAT number inside their latest email, it is impossible to issue a proper invoice to them in the first place. Why don't they know that?

Because he's American running a company in a tax haven? So much for compliance..

EliteWebmaster 11-17-2015 04:48 PM

I wonder why they wouldn't just pay without you having to invoice them. Seems like an unnecessary extra step that takes up time for the affiliate but also for them to have to open and read the invoice. Unless the purpose is counting on affiliates to forget to invoice them...

NewNick 11-18-2015 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onwebcam (Post 20638919)
Because he's American running a company in a tax haven? So much for compliance..

Holland is a tax haven ??

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

_Richard_ 11-18-2015 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faxxaff (Post 20638884)
Actually, if one really wanted to issue an invoice to DDF, they would need to follow legal accounting requirements and include DDF's VAT number on that invoice. Since DDF didn't publish their VAT number inside their latest email, it is impossible to issue a proper invoice to them in the first place. Why don't they know that?

i believe only the issuer is required to list a VAT number, however in my experience both VAT numbers are listed

onwebcam 11-18-2015 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick (Post 20639238)
Holland is a tax haven ??

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

The Netherlands are known internationally, since at least the 1970s, as a tax haven. As of 2013, the country harbors holding companies for various multinationals, participates in more than a hundred bilateral tax treaties, and the various exemptions facilitate tax avoidance by corporations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpor...he_Netherlands

BigFurry 11-18-2015 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onwebcam (Post 20638919)
Because he's American running a company in a tax haven? So much for compliance..

DDF is European, always been

babeterminal 11-18-2015 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20637077)
And then we get to the invoicing:



I have a few fundamental rules that I follow when deciding which affiliate programs I trust enough to send traffic to. The single most important criterion I use is: "Does this program sound like it wants to pay me? Are they making every effort to sound reassuring about the idea that I will get my money no matter what?"

The email FAILS to meet that criterion. It fails hard enough to set off alarm bells, warning sirens, and bright red flashing lights. This does NOT sound like someone who is making "getting every affiliate paid on time every time without making them beg for it" a top priority.

1) The default rule for any program is that they must pay without demand. I promote hundreds of programs. Some of them pay me, on average, no more often than every two years or so. A blog post from five years ago generates a $13 sale that recurs for many months, it can take a long time to get to a $500 bank wire minimum. It shouldn't matter. I shouldn't have to worry. The program should pay me without demand when the minimum is reached. These are the irreducible basics of the affiliate/program relationships. If I have to notice that I've reached a payment minimum and make a payment demand, the company goes on my list as potentially shady and not to be trusted for future promotion. An affiliate-driven invoice process (with no payments until the affiliate sends an invoice) is unheard of in this business. Trust me, DDF Cash, you do not want to be the innovator in this space. If Euro accounting rules require an invoice, do what everybody else does: generate an invoice, display it in the affiliate interface, and send an email inviting the affiliate to "send it" by return email confirmation.



With respect, if the back end systems aren't in place to handle your new requirement, it's too soon to communicate those requirements to your affiliates. Meanwhile, the email says:



You're not ready.

2) The email also says:



Unless you have some fancy new technology that lets me send an email to a physical street address, this strongly implies that you want paper invoices sent by actual postal mail. Which you are demanding, on November 13, for payments due as soon as December 1. Once again, that's going to be an impossibility for overseas affiliates, which creates the strong impression that you aren't really concerned about getting affiliates paid on time, every time. (It doesn't affect me; you only owe me like $13 at the moment. But it sure doesn't give me a warm fuzzy about earning another $500 with you. Because you really aren't sounding like you are 100% committed to paying me out when that happy day comes.

Paul writes in this thread:



That's not "clearer", it directly contradicts the email you sent.



Have you really been running an affiliate program for all these years without understanding that it's your obligation to pay affiliates without making them demand payment first? I want to get paid out when I reach the minimum in NATS, that why I didn't set a higher minimum. It's shady programs that don't pay up until the affiliate writes and demands payment. If you're not a shady program, you don't want to look or sound like a shady program. This makes you look and sound like a shady program. And whether you are "looking to keep" anyone's payments or not, you damned well know and understand that there will be affiliates who never invoice you. You will pocket that money. You are not among the angels here.



That's genuinely offensive. If you truly are looking at new financial compliance requirements, how hard would it have been to drop a specific sentence about what the requirements are? If you did that, it would give you a believable excuse for walking away from your obligation to pay without demand. But you didn't do that.

Nobody wants to drop you for "being compliant". If anybody drops you it's going to be because you sent a LOUD signal that paying your affiliates is not a top priority.

You could have said:



But you didn't say that. You sent a bunch of word salad that boils down to "Fuck you, we're not paying you any more unless you guess which documents we want, guess where and how we want to receive them, and start generating invoices whenever you want to get paid."

Then you responded to criticism about that by going "you should have emailed with your questions." Not "Oh my god, you're right, that email was a confusing disaster, we are so sorry, we're furiously working on that now, please look for another email tomorrow that will clear everything up."

It makes you look bad. It makes you look VERY bad. Because it makes you look less than committed to getting affiliates paid on time, every time, without demand. It makes you look like you really aren't concerned about doing that.

If you want to get all huffy, call this "ridiculous" and insinuate that anybody with a problem with it is against "being compliant", well, that's your right. But it just makes you look worse and confirms the initial bad impression.

If you want affiliates, they need to trust you to pay them. Appearances matter. The way you communicate your requirements? It it matters. The impression you give, the amount of zealousness you display, about making sure affiliates get paid? It all matters. And you have screwed this up, big time. You screwed it up in the email and you screwed it up worse by coming here and sneering at the affiliates who complained about your first screwup.

Free business advice, take it or leave it. I promise I won't be invoicing you for it. There's still plenty of time to fix the damage you've done, but not without losing the bad attitude first.

:321GFY

this is so well put ............. well done

Ferus 11-18-2015 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20637169)
It would have been "clear" if they said they needed an invoice "via email to [email protected]" or said "the invoice should show the following billing address". In the email they actually wrote, they said "we need an invoice" and then provided a physical address for it.

Any invoice within the EU HAVE to (especially when payments are crossing national borders) contain the billing address, name and Tax#.

It might be rocket science for you, but its how bussiness is done in Europe

Deal with or go talk to WeHatePorn and make up some more fucked up conspiracy theories.

DDF are doing it to make sure they are compliant.

WHEN you have made the invoice (HTML or PDF is a standard) you may send it through email to them.

How the fuck can that be so hard to understand?

NewNick 11-18-2015 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onwebcam (Post 20639264)
The Netherlands are known internationally, since at least the 1970s, as a tax haven. As of 2013, the country harbors holding companies for various multinationals, participates in more than a hundred bilateral tax treaties, and the various exemptions facilitate tax avoidance by corporations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpor...he_Netherlands

You clearly dont understand the reasoning behind the address.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:15 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©2000-, AI Media Network Inc123