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I've dealt positively with Paul in the past. His input helped get me paid last June on some money I was due in February. After seven emails, I came away convinced the program was honest but bureaucratic. I should have gotten my money without having to ask for it (much less argue for it) but there were plausible reasons offered for why that didn't happen. I was a satisfied affiliate at the end of the exchange. But: that history makes me less charitable than I otherwise would be, when the company announces that it no longer intends to pay people automatically. Paying people without demand should be the default policy. If you change from that default policy, it needs a much better explanation than the vague and menacing affiliate email this thread is complaining about. |
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Really, hobbyist... The principle is the same, especially in EU. If you do legal business, you sure can issue invoices. :321GFY |
fuck ddf :321GFY
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Receiving the email I was very disappointed too but I appreciate when there is the possibility to discuss and find a solution. I promote many different sites and some of them don't know the words "SUPPORT - Get in touch with us". This is frustrating especially because money is often the bone of contention :( |
I have no comment on what's going on here other than to say that Mr. Forkbeard is one damn articulate, intelligent, reasonable, clear-minded and patient affiliate and ANY Program would be honored to have him promote their shit.
Excellent posts Forkbeard! |
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Thanks to everyone who actually get's this, and understands that were not trying to kill our program and just get with the times. Our plan is to make this as seamless as possible for affiliates, not make it more difficult to get payed out. That's not our intention. We've been in the online business for 15 years, and in the industry for over 30 years, were not in the practice of destroying our hard work.
Forkbeard, you have alot of time on your hands, lucky you. I wont respond to all your comments, I have no personal battle with you. I have no idea who you are nor will I assume anything about your character, I will tell you I'm not Dutch, I'm American, born and raised in New York, served in the Military and defended our land in the good ole US of A...so your words are simply laughable to me. Could our initial message have been more clear, Yes, and once I get more info in from our accounting team, I will provide all pertinent data to affiliates who wish to continue promoting us. I tend to not waste my time on these forums because those who get it and are working hard don't start senseless verbal battles here. Too much work to get done for that. So write whatever you wish, but know that i'm not going to read it. Any serious questions or concerns can be directed to my Email.....yes email not snail mail. Cheers all. Have a nice week ahead and may your business prosper in the New year. |
I have been issuing invoices for a decade and nobody ever wanted them. I just filed them and that was it. THAT is considered normal. I never understood how that fuck can you even do business without having an invoice from the party you are paying for services provided to you. Nonetheless US companies (or were they offshore?) simply paid and cared less. Some asked for WBEN form. Ok. I provided. So DDF asking for an invoice is just how business should be run. The only difference is that they provide a darn sort of form to upload the invoice so we can send it over.
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Most long time affiliates have 100's or 1000's of sponsors they promote. I actively promote probably 200, hows that for wasted time, spending all day for few days just sending out invoices. Imagine that! Sounds terrible.
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You go to any European accountant and they'll be shocked that companies in online adult don't want invoices and sometimes won't even tell you their business details. Paperwork & invoices are obviously horrible and time-consuming, but it's required for those who want to run their business legally. |
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What a gang of amateurs you lot are.
Raise an invoice. Simples. Its a document you create in Word or Excell. It has your Name / Company name and address on it, the name and address of the program or company you want to be paid from, the amount you wish to be paid, and usually some payment details. Then you email it. You save yourself a copy and then your records are then in order for your own tax regulator. Nothing could be simpler. I find it absolutely bizarre that a company putting its house in order is somehow called SHADY. The only shady fuckers in this thread are the ones that are wittering about pulling links. Un-fucking real. :2 cents: |
i believe this is needed for VAT reasons, i have a few affiliates that require us to issue invoices with affiliate payouts
we're probably going to be seeing a lot more of this sort of thing as tax law catches up with the internet DDF is good people |
Without looking closely, I'd venture to guess that 90% of our European clients require invoices for payouts, though none of the affiliate programs do so).
Jscott: if you use an accounting program, you can likely set a threshold for payment and auto generate an invoice. Even a tool like Excel can do it if you like. The nice thing about this sort of process is that you always know who has paid, and when they have paid. And right down to the penny and the exact date. |
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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Not only that, but I also manage the members area for 2 notable paysite programs. They've both asked that I removed DDF from rotation. For most, a single affiliate program accounts for little of your overall revenues be it a members area promotion or if you have a large network of sites. We are removing them from our network as well as the 2 members areas, much as we did with Hegre. Both companies are seasoned enough to know that with this move some attrition is expected, I'm sure they'll make it up by keeping checks from honest affiliates who don't regularly monitor all the programs they push. |
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The tax laws are quite different between the EU and the US. Requiring Invoices is not a problem per se but it's HOW the company requires it is the issue I think. Want an invoice? OK - make it easy for me, have a template ready, or just require an email with the Invoice sent. It's not a huge issue - BUT the arrogance and nastiness coming from Europeans regarding this issue has to stop. Hey DDF (and all other European Programs): want US/Canada/UK traffic and sales? These are the highest-converting countries with the best traffic and sales that everyone wants most, right? Then try NOT to be arrogant DICKS about your new VAT requirements and we may just play along. But if not guess what??? We will survive just fine by not promoting your shit. But I'm sure Euro companies will be happy with Hungarian, Romanian and Chinese traffic only eh? |
DDF can eat shit, links pulled.
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I would expect you to see that side of things Roald but ok. :) |
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I wonder why they wouldn't just pay without you having to invoice them. Seems like an unnecessary extra step that takes up time for the affiliate but also for them to have to open and read the invoice. Unless the purpose is counting on affiliates to forget to invoice them...
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:1orglaugh:1orglaugh |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpor...he_Netherlands |
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It might be rocket science for you, but its how bussiness is done in Europe Deal with or go talk to WeHatePorn and make up some more fucked up conspiracy theories. DDF are doing it to make sure they are compliant. WHEN you have made the invoice (HTML or PDF is a standard) you may send it through email to them. How the fuck can that be so hard to understand? |
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Seems to me their program could generate one and put it into your payments area. If you click pay me, you get paid. If you don't, it gets rolled over into a new one and the last one is canceled.
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Just wait here, he's typing it out. It'll be ready before 2025. |
Paul, just one thought.
It costs ~$250 to start a US LLC in Delaware with a registered agent. You could then transfer money to your US bank account, and pay all your North American affiliates from there, without missing a beat or losing any affiliates, and completely complying with all tax laws. You'd need to file US taxes, however since it's a money in money out type of thing, there would be no taxes owed. Maybe one possible answer to this. |
gamesrevenue seems to ask the same thing.
Sure i can send an invoice, but with what kind of informations ? They know better the nature of the transactions than me. Why don't they have a page to print an invoice and a postal mail to send it ?? That's a waste of time. |
Normally under EU law it is the supplier who has to create the invoice.
The supplier is you, the affiliate, who promotes the program's sites for money. The customer is the affiliate program who pays you for this. I looked around a bit and found a possible solution. It is called SELF-BILLING INVOICES. Basically the supplier gives formal permission to the customer to create invoices on their behalf. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-self...g-arrangements It's also mentioned here: VAT invoicing rules - European Commission Hilton uses this setup for paying travel agencies apparently: Self-Billing Agreement for UK Travel Agencies - Hilton This might be a lawful option for the affiliate programs the generate invoices on the affiliates' behalf. Maybe some programs do this already, but I haven't come across one. (They would have to ask for affiliates' permission to create invoices on their behalf.) Also have to check the country-specific laws before setting up such a system, the detailed link above is only for the UK. Programs providing self-billing invoices would be really great for us EU affiliates who operate legally. Because we actually DID have to create invoices all this time. For ALL payouts. |
blow wads ddf
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All the euro-bros jumping on this thread to sneer about how it's not that hard to make an invoice are completely missing the point. Obviously it's not that hard. I do it all the time for one-time advertising deals when companies ask nicely. But it clearly isn't an absolute requirement of EU tax law, given as how nobody else that deals with US affiliates is doing it. Notice how nobody from Europe talking shit in this thread has managed to cite or link to a single web resource advising that this is actually an insurmountable requirement for paying an affiliate from Europe. They just sneer and pose and act all superior. |
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:2 cents: |
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i am slightly concerned on how the americans are going to handle this, and what they will require |
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:2 cents::thumbsup:2 cents: |
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They also say there that they want digital invoices, so now it's clear that you don't have to deliver them by boat :) |
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Paul had an opportunity to confirm all the VAT speculation in this thread; instead he pouted and said he wouldn't be answering that question, or shedding any public light on the mysterious "documents in hand" that DDF is demanding by December 15, either. So all you Euro-bros bleating about how civilized European people all invoice each other because of VAT? It's just empty noise until we hear more from DDF Cash, which Paul has said we will not. |
(btw since people asked me my VAT number: i have a small business status and i'm not subject to VAT.)
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ddf suck a mean dick
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Remember, even if that isn't the motive behind these changes, it will surely be the effect. Unless DDF Cash acknowledges that fact and enumerates the steps they plan to take to ensure they don't just "inherit" a bunch of affiliate money, they deserve to be seen as wrongfully taking affiliate funds. |
I finally invoiced them, and got no payment but an email about this invlice shit again, a week after I submitted mine.. It seems that they are also sending out DMCAs to content that does not belong to them at all. crappp :(
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wow what a bunch of bull just for generating an invoice once a month, takes about 2 minutes to make one..
If we do a payment for anything we always require an invoice, if someone makes this much trouble about sending a basic invoice we know they have something dodgy to hide |
That's a legal way to run a business in EU. Why complain?
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