Why do other cams sites not adopt the open tipping show business model?

[duk75]

As I have seen, Chaturbate and My Free Cams are very successful and famous, as they work different to the other cams' sites, they allow everyone to watch the show, while the rich viewers tip the model and therefore get the right to decide what will happen next. But everyone share the experience.

It is evident that this model works, specially for the models. If you ever check the very few camgirls' forums you will find that most complain how they started at a "traditional" webcam sites, and then they discovered the "great" MFC or Chaturbate

Then, I can't simply not understand why the other cam sites do not follow those steps, instead of being stuck in an old model, evidently incompatible with the new business and social trends of crowdfunding and sharing.

Honestly, MFC and Chaturbate suck at the way they treat their affiliates. MFC does not even have a "direct" affiliate program, and there are practically zero promotion tools, zero apis, zero iframes, zero embedded chat rooms... But the webmasters keep promoting it, why? Because it gives money, more than the traditional ones, even considering the very low revenue percentage (15%).

And chaturbate, again, poor promo tools, and complete indifference for the SEO of the affiliates, getting in the borders of sabotage, insulting sabotage of the affiliates with those stupid whitelabels. But the webmasters promote it, again, because it gives money, more than the traditional ones.

I think they are not yet the top webcam sites visited, although they are close. Imagine what would happen if the traditional ones made the transition to this business model. With better affiliate force, with better tools, with better revenue, with better aesthetics, with better technology... They only need to solve that last fail.

But they don't. Why not? Why!!!!

Can someone explain?

[MaDalton]

my best guess: when you are used to charge $3.99 per minute you have a hard time changing your mindset on that

Leo started from the scratch with a new idea, then got copied by 2-3 others

[Barry-xlovecam]

It's a free world.

Freemium is reverse begging. TIP ME!
It can work either way -- the choice is the model's

[aka123]

I don't see a reason why everyone should adopt the same model. Especially as private show is still private show. I haven't called for sex payphones or paid for cams or that much even watched those (for free), but if I would pay for cams, I would pay to get personal experience. Of course that doesn't apply to everyone, but as long there is a big enough customer segment who wants personal experience, it is of course good to offer services to that segment, tailored to that segment's needs.

You know, for example in restaurant business there are shit loads of models from fast food (like McDonald's) to hot dog stands and to restaurants with sophisticated menus and entertainment. Not that many suggest that all restaurants should be like McDonald's.

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

It's a free world.

Freemium is reverse begging. TIP ME!
It can work either way -- the choice is the model's

From a models POV, I don't like asking for tips & much rather be on a private paid show

[Sly]

Couldn't the same question be asked in reverse?

What exact numbers are you basing your question on?

Have you promoted both models for a year or more?

I know quite a few people making very good money promoting the Streamate style model. I don't know anyone making good money promoting the newer model. Not that there isn't money to be had, but just because you see a rainbow from the distance does not mean there's really a pot of gold at the end.

Tube ABC has a hell of a lot more free members than Paysite XYZ, doesn't mean it's making more money.

[TheSquealer]

a good general rule in life in understanding and evaluating the behaviors of others... if people are doing something, it is generally because it works.

[kane]

I actually think the MFC/Chaturbate model may end up being bad for the cam world and the industry as a whole. It is teaching people that is you are just willing to wait, you can get a free show. So you end up with girls that have 2,000 people in their room and 8 of them tipped enough to get the show going while the other 1992 are just watching for free.

I don't think they are going anywhere anytime soon, but as more and more of them show up I think fewer and fewer people will be paying.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by kane

I actually think the MFC/Chaturbate model may end up being bad for the cam world and the industry as a whole. It is teaching people that is you are just willing to wait, you can get a free show. So you end up with girls that have 2,000 people in their room and 8 of them tipped enough to get the show going while the other 1992 are just watching for free.

I don't think they are going anywhere anytime soon, but as more and more of them show up I think fewer and fewer people will be paying.

I tell you one secret: adult industry sucks in marketing. Despite of some early successes and breakthroughs it is quite stale and amateurish (marketing wise). If adult industry would be restaurant, this would be what it would look like.

[Andreweb]

People are spending way more on cam sites with privates than on the free shows ones that's for sure !

[kane]

Originally Posted by aka123

I tell you one secret: adult industry sucks in marketing. Despite of some early successes and breakthroughs it is quite stale and amateurish (marketing wise). If adult industry would be restaurant, this would be what it would look like.

I have said for years that the adult industries reaction to everything is to give away more content. The moment someone does something a little different and it works, someone figures out a way to give away more free content in order to get the traffic.

I remember when I first started their rules from link sites about the max number of pics you could have on a site if you wanted them to list you. Then cam TGP's and MPG's and now Tube's and to me MFC and Chaturbate are the next step, they are essentially crowdfunding porn shows.

[BigFurry]

If their old model is profitable, have tons of paying customers, it's a big risk to switch it around.

But that does not mean they're not working on opening a second site with a different model, or have invested in one already.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by kane

I have said for years that the adult industries reaction to everything is to give away more content. The moment someone does something a little different and it works, someone figures out a way to give away more free content in order to get the traffic.

Okay, good point, but I kinda meant marketing beyond getting traffic. As adult industry as a whole probably is good in getting traffic, but it sucks in converting it.

In simple; someone giving more and more free content is irrelevant if people want to BUY your content (that costs). But as adult industry sucks in marketing the people don't really want to pay for the content, at least anywhere near to its full potential.

I am available to be hired to do some consulting by the way. I do this kind of stuff in mainstream with the cooperation of advertising agencies (website related stuff).

[Jet Set Cat]

It is also because there are a number of cam girls that don?t like performing in front of hundreds of free loaders, especially if she has no way of verifying the ages of more than half of them.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by aka123

Okay, good point, but I kinda meant marketing beyond getting traffic. As adult industry as a whole probably is good in getting traffic, but it sucks in converting it.

In simple; someone giving more and more free content is irrelevant if people want to BUY your content (that costs). But as adult industry sucks in marketing the people don't really want to pay for the content, at least anywhere near to its full potential.

I am available to be hired to do some consulting by the way. I do this kind of stuff in mainstream with the cooperation of advertising agencies (website related stuff).

I couldn't agree with you more. It's pure fucking insanity that some guy from a 3rd world country who speaks English as a 3rd language can launch and promote a new product or service on a forum like black hat world, in a manner that is 10X better than anything ANYONE has ever done on this forum. Well laid out, well explained, clear, concise, compelling, done with amazing graphics that drive each point home perfectly.

Here, even the largest companies just throw out a wall of text, wait for the fake praise, ass kissers and sycophants to weigh in and then pat themselves on the back and walk away. It's insane. I mean this biz literally understands next to zero about how to market a product or service. I always laugh when i see something so completely well done from start to finish, so professional and so compelling - and that i have zero use for... yet end up wanting to buy and try it on BHW or some forum like that and them come here and see the shit that paid idiots call "marketing" when it comes to launching a new program, site or service. I can't think of more than a few people where i could say "THAT GUY would be an asset to any company" in this industry. Just a bunch of fake idiots in a bubble with no concept of what actual business is.

[Dmitry]

1) There are many webcam girls who don't want to be naked in public but could do that in private
2) On "tips driven" website models are motivated to get more customers in a room (they are getting bonus for that)
3) Customer and model behavior targeted for "Action for tips in public"

And they have more customers in a chatroom and only in this case it becomes effective. We get a special type of girls who do a show in public.

In some cases "open tips" concept could be applied for "classic" webcam site but there is a high risk of fail with no choice to get back to the classic "paid chat" concept. You may lose both models and customers.

And I have personal feeling owners of "tips driven" websites have a special budget for "tip starters" in a chatroom who initiates tips in a room. That's why they can't afford paying high affiliate commission. And it is pretty effective marketing budget: you spend money directly for your main content - for models. And you pay only model's commission, not a full amount.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by Dmitry

And it is pretty effective marketing budget: you spend money directly for your main content - for models. And you pay only model's commission, not a full amount.

And -taxes for the revenue. Or is there some special way treating revenue like this? It is probably revenue as any other accounting wise.

[CurrentlySober]

In situations like this, I often ask myself... "What would Harry Potter do?"

In other words, would Harry open a tips only site for Hermione, or would he go old school with Ron and make it 'Gay for Pay' ???

Hmmmm

[Barry-xlovecam]

From a business point of view the comparisons are about different sources of revenue streams and their ROI.

[patadeperro]

Even the promotion tools for the other webcam sites are very limited, there is no way to send your traffic to a specific model, if you have a set of pictures or an entire website created for a model you cant send the traffic to her shows ridiculous!!!!

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by duk75

As I have seen, Chaturbate and My Free Cams are very successful

No they are not. Chaturbate is a graveyard, you can hear the crickets listening to the crickets. I think they have 100 models total live at any time

MFC is good for maybe 10-20 models total the rest are just trying out the site or split camming it out of sheer desperation.

MFC traffic is one thing, having one trillion freeloaders sent by "Hi my name is Dereck and you should never pay for cams again" does not make a successful business model.

I could put a model that looks like an angel on MFC and a dying-from-aids whore on a regular site and the dying whore will make more $

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by patadeperro

Even the promotion tools for the other webcam sites are very limited, there is no way to send your traffic to a specific model, if you have a set of pictures or an entire website created for a model you cant send the traffic to her shows ridiculous!!!!

On XloveCash/XloveCam we have Livechat, Livewebcam, textlinks, and XML files as well as images and some legacy Flash videos too that are model specific.

[JeepersCreepers]

Originally Posted by duk75

Honestly, MFC and Chaturbate suck at the way they treat their affiliates. MFC does not even have a "direct" affiliate program, and there are practically zero promotion tools, zero apis, zero iframes, zero embedded chat rooms... But the webmasters keep promoting it, why? Because it gives money, more than the traditional ones, even considering the very low revenue percentage (15%).

Yeah. Couldn't find what I was looking for in terms of promotion tools. Decided to test bongacash, as they offer a lot of them. Don't know if I could've earned more with MFC, but I am quite pleased with my current state.

[adultmobile]

Originally Posted by duk75

I think they are not yet the top webcam sites visited, although they are close. Imagine what would happen if the traditional ones made the transition to this business model.

First of all, it is not just mfc and cb that provide free hardcore shows for tips, look here carefully:

https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...-existing.html

You'll notice full naked or playing girls in at least a dozen of other sites, or 50% of the cam sites, at various levels and depending on time of the day. Even streamate permits naked girls in free rooms.

Second, the fact that several models show for free to everyone, does not mean all of the models do it. Also, often the show free in a site is result of being in private in another, and "splitcamming" the same video in many sites, in hope for extra tips elsewhere, added to private/group minutes.
In MFC (and other tips sites) there are many models who show only in private. Yes, private only, the "old system", and that's at $6 or more per minute in MFC. Some other models show only in group, that's cheap but still only who pay something can see it.
MFC does more than 50% of sales in private/group (according to models I talk with), so the public tips are a minor revenue, even if everyone notices these only. Further, many tips are given without requesting nudity or shows... So the users witness a tip, and "thanks for tip", but no any show anyway. It is not crowdfunding for a sex show, but for the model to pay bills and buy new clothes, this is not even porn.