Fiddy post that are not about riots
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That is how we got tricked in it. Governments saying that it is so easy to have 1 currency. But forgetting that if you have 1 currency you need to set up a political and econmical structure. Like setting up a European Bank Union. They just started that, cause during the crisis they hadn't enough mechanisms. And Greece has a history of devaluation, you don't change that. But the politicians thought they could make it 1 big central coordinated Union.
For business it can be easy to have 1 currency. But for holidays? Come on, you just but your card in the ATM and you have local currency. It is not like 30 years ago that you would need a travel cheque for you 2 week holiday per year.
And the Greek go earlier on retirement. But in Holland we had hundrerd of thousands people working for the government that only worked till they where 60 while the official age of retirement was 65. The reason the age is 67 is not because there is work. But because the government want to use your retirement funds. 20 years ago there where a lot uf retirement funds, till the president decide to steal billions of euro's here in the Netherlands. So now there is a shortage and everybody needs to work longer. Don't believe the storytellers about working till you are 67.
I don't see why i would be against working till 57. The government also tries to keep my money in their pocket till i am 67. If people have more spare time they can watch and buy more porn.
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"A slightly exposed shoulder emerging from a long silk nightgown packs more sex than two bodies naked in bed." - Bette Davis
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Though as you don't pay VAT for exports, that part is easier, and you can accept/have payments in your own currency or have two accounting currencies (like USD and euro).
The real shit is the regulations, those are even in EU area still quite diverse; I mean if you want to obey those. But even now many companies just sell/ send all kinds of shit everywhere and with every style, no matter is it legal in the receiving country or not. As the risk for the sending company is quite low, unless they send container loads of the illegal stuff, or something like that.
Of course the situation is not the same for every company. For example Finnish paper industry received the payments in German marks before euro. But despite of the euro some companies still use much other currencies like USD, because of the nature of business; like Finnish Neste Oil (it buys oil in $).
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All true. People who *think* that working til you are 1 step away from the coffin is for the 'greater good', are perfectly brainwashed modern slaves.
You cannot trust governments. You can't say 'Oh we have to work until we are old and grey, or the government doesn't have any money anymore for society'. That is very, very naive. Just a while ago, after major cutbacks, higher taxes, more expensive healthcare, and how can i forget the VAT a few years ago that went from decades of 19% all of a sudden to 21%. Do you realize how much fucking extra money that is for the government? It's fucking huge.
After all that, the puppets in politics all say 'it are hard times, we have to do this, everybody needs to chip in', making everybody accept all this blatant stealing from them.
Then, at the end of last year, the EU demands this country to pay an 'after-tax' to the fat cats of the EU of the sum of ?642 million. Ofcourse our government all of a sudden has this money and pays up. What? I thought there wasn't any money anymore?
Now im reading that the EU just set another after tax for Holland of an extra ?200 million.... WTF? Ofcourse the government is paying this as well... It's so easy apparently to milk the people for every penny they got, claim to need to money because there isn't anything left, and ultimately throw away close to a billion euros to the EU mafia bosses, because the dutch government is used to bending over to bigger entities. They get fucked, and we get fucked by them. Great system
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once again - that is right now just propaganda.
IF the claim is legit - and hundreds of lawyers and historians will be busy with this for a while - there are already many Germans that say that this would need to be honored
BUT: this has nothing to do with how the greek government(s) handles money and their economy. that has to change - now.
And the list of countries that were able to change is long - just recently Ireland and Portugal
and for the rest i refer to my earlier postsComment
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I Always worked for myself. And maybe i stop working when i am 57
But at this moment i work and too young to stop working.
But with a lot of things you arrange for your retirement they just pay out when you are 67... or you must arrange everything yourself without extra tax reduction you normally would have when you retire at 67. So it also cost me money. I have seen a lot of people that didn't make it till they where 67 and died (much) earlier. So i think it is also better to arrange your retirement yourself. If you do it with pension funds and you and your partner die, everything goes to the government. But if you arrange it yourself and you die, you can let it flow to your family instead of to the government (where it will end up in Greece).
But i am not alone, would love to see my Mom living in France. But with a younger man that suddenly has to work 2 years longer it will take 2 years extra for that while he is working since he was 16... I am not thinking about my retirement, i will take care. But also for others. If the government didn't steal the pension funds in the '80s there would be enough to retire at 60 years.
I can tell you another example. When you want to live in Costa Rica with your Dutch 'government' pension they will give you only 50% of the normal amount! Cause they can't check if you are living together, they give you lesss cause they asume that you are living with a partner.... And cause you live in a land where the income is lower the Dutch government give you an extra % less off of the money you saved. It is not the other way around, when you decide to live in a land that is more expensive, they won't give you extra pension.
So i think you understand that i am not counting on -and paying my government for that. I prefer saving money my self, the government can't be trusted.
And for the work that has to be done. More and more Dutch people are unemployed cause it is cheaper to get someone from Poland.
So when they put up the retirement age went to 67 they knew most of the oldies would get unemployed.
Better take a young strong man from Poland.
I am in Mexico now. I am glad there is no Euro here. I still have the same exchange rate for pesos as 6 months ago.
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that's a specific dutch thing, has nothing to do with the EU or Euro
basic line is - a government cannot spend money it doesn't have.
if you want to retire at 57, your mum too and everyone else then someone has to pay for it
and that usually means higher taxes for those who work
now we can debate endlessly how governments waste money on certain things but overall this won't change a lot - maybe 1 or 2% in the the tax rate
so that you, your family and everyone else can sit in the sun at 57 and have a nice pension, every working person and company would probably have to pay 50-60% income tax. good luck with that
and btw - this is exactly how Greece ruined itself
money is not magically being shit from some donkeys assComment
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modern pension and retirements system are one of the biggest robberies in the world.
very often if you'd just save money by yourself what you are giving government every month, you would get better money at the end.
PLUS, you could receive whole amount when you are, for example 67. and with government system - you are betting with your government that you will live longer than, lets say 80 years old.
if you live shorter, it is another argument that it wasnt worth it at all.
and tercero - this money is the best LOAN that any government can receive, better than bonds. no % interest rates on it, just free loan for government - like Bjorn said, and sometimes they will blindly steal it from you.
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oh - i won't argue with that - and i am 43 years old and have studied business management and a little bit of economics. and i have paid into the pension system for myself while i was employed and also paid for my employees. so i don't think there's anything you said that i did not know yet.
and as someone that pays for employees that will receive pension one day: Most smaller businesses will not be able to afford what it costs to have everyone retire on a nice pension at 57
this makes it difficult to discuss this with people that live in moms basement, or are employed or just work for themselves
sorry if that sounds rudeComment
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I tell you again. When there is no work, see new robot technologies, than there is no work.
Nobody is going to hire a 60 year old person while you can have a 20 year old (maybe from Poland) for half the money. If that persons retires at 60, 2 younger people can wok for the same money. So that 60 year old person in not taking pensions but unemployment fee, what is the difference?
PS, the dutch wellfare systems isn't made by working hard. But because we where Lucky we have some gas and oil.
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Yes, i know truckdrivers who lost their jobs to Polish people. Also people working at construction etcetra. The Polish are not hired cause they do dirty jobs. But because they are much cheaper. Even the dutch Government buildings are now renovated by Polish people cause that is cheaper. So while Dutch people are too old and that way too expensive the Ducth government wants them to work till they are 67?
Strange isn it
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Somehow governments do seem to pull it out of their asses. See my previous post.
First they don't have any money. When EU bossman demands government to pay an extra almost ?1 billion to EU, they suddenly do have it! All the while they've plucked the people for every last penny. So they are not only stealing from everyone, but the lie and spit them in the face to boot.
I think you look at it from a point of view where they are relatively fair an honest. If they were, then what you said is 100% correct. But they are the opposite of fair and honest. They say 'no money' so yes, when that's really true, it's logical people have to work longer and pay more taxes. But they lie. So they can grab more and more of our hard earned cash, when it's not even necessary. Greedy, dirty fucks, and here in Holland it's the greediest government you've ever seen.Comment
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I'm not sure who you mean exactly, but it doesnt matter...
you seem to miss my point - whole pension system is robbery and thievery so why to have it ? it doesnt matter if you will work until 65, 67, or 60.
why not let people decide for themselves instead of robbers/thieves in government ?
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i don't know how old you are but i remember very well the times when there was messages of doom every week in the news how robots will take over everything and everyone will be out of work
robots came and the unemployment rate at least in Germany today is lower than back then
why?
because since then for example the internet, the IT industry, mobile industry etc came up and created millions of new jobs
you think "robots" will do your work too?
and just another example - Volkswagen had 192,000 employees in 1972 - then the robots came - and last year they had almost 600,000 employees
this is an absurd discussion - robots.... will robots also wipe your ass when you're old and can't move anymore?
jeez...Comment
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because people are stupid and will blow the money instead of investing it
and since you can't let people starve and freeze, the government will have to jump in and spend the money at that point
i am all for discussing how a pension system can be better but letting all people decide on their own - see also health care - doesn't work.Comment
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I am not afraid that i won't have work. We are in the right ict industry.
In Holland the government is thinking of giving older people less money for their work.
Old people are too expensive so they could earn less in their opinion. There is 1 europe and it is much easier o'r get cheaper labour from Poland etcetra.
The car companies could grow because there is a mich bigger market now than in 1972. More people can affort a car, also in former third world countries. Even in mexico there are new Volkswagen and Mercedes factories. And that is why they wanted the EU, cause than you can make poor countries richer so you have a new market for your products.
Why do you have problems with retiring at 60? Don't you prefer 2 young guys working for you instead of 1 old man? Especially in the ICT? I won't invest in a programmer over 55 years old.
everything is fake
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to me it simply sounds as if you have a shitty government in Holland
yes, oh the horror, making poor countries richer, what an insane plan.
ever compared most eastern European countries today to 1989? or Spain, Portugal in comparison when they were still dictatorships 40 years ago?
i guess we have a general different understanding - i also value experience and efficiency, not just birth date
and I plan to retire way before 60 - unless i just have fun keeping onComment
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cs cunt afford a robot
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to me it simply sounds as if you have a shitty government in Holland
yes, oh the horror, making poor countries richer, what an insane plan.
ever compared most eastern European countries today to 1989? or Spain, Portugal in comparison when they were still dictatorships 40 years ago?
i guess we have a general different understanding - i also value experience and efficiency, not just birth date
and I plan to retire way before 60 - unless i just have fun keeping on
I think you don't understand me. I say there is a bigger market. That is why Volkswagen has more employees. That is no horror. But to point out that robots took over jobs, but because the market is bigger there is also more work. That is the whole idea of Europe. I am not saying that that is bad. You will need robots, else the factory will go to a cheaper country.
Well, even people to whipe your ass we are getting from Poland and other poor countries. Cause the Dutch won't do that work for so less money. I wonder how a 67 year old woman will whipe your ass. Maybe she needs help herself to do that at her age. Sure she will be experienced, but some jobs are not that good if you are over 67, than age counts more than experience.
I think i will work till i die cause i like it. But in the meantime i will travel the world cause you never know when it will end. I am for sure not waiting till i am 67, travelling around now for almost 4 years. I am not planning to retire in Holland, too cold for me. So for me it is interesting to know that the Dutch government will try to steal my retirement money when i decide to live in another, probably cheaper, country. And don't forget, laws in Holland cold be easily copied to Germany. Maybe a European president will force Germany in plans like that...
But that is financial. Soon there will be an European president. And i don't like that. Look what is happening in Greece, you have no control. I can understand the Greek people. It is ridicilous out there. But that is their own fault. They are better of alone, if they can't get more money from other countries. But everybody could see it coming and they, and we, are tricked into it. Some people even want Turkey to join.
I was on Zakynthos. Quiet Island but suddenly there was a new road, with a big sign it was paid by Europe. A fucking road from nowhere to nowhere for a handfull of tourist. Europe could figure out itself that was a waste of money. Now am i wondering, was that also a loan? Who has given that loan? And why?
everything is fake
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As far as I dislike it, it is still necessary. People fucking can't take care of themselves. Many people can't even save some money for a few months period, not even for decades to come! And as MaDalton pointed out, what would happen if people will retire, but they won't have any savings? The government (at least in the civilized world) will have to help them out financially.. so we are on square one again.
Not sure what's the solution, maybe some more classes about economics instead of literature or similar nonsense would help (in school years)
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thats is their problem and this is natural selection. stupid loose.
socialist thinking is to find out "miracle solution" for it - and that solution is to make all people pay...and "wise" government will do with that money what they want to do. because people are stupid and cant think for themselves.
its like suing McDonalds for 1 milion dollars because your cup with hot coffee slipped and now you a little burned.
or it is like suing Ford because you ride SUV from Ford and after 5 years of riding without any walking/ cycling you became fat like pig. so who is responsible for that ? Ford or your stupidity ?
the only difference is that by suing McDonald you may actually "win" that milion bucks, and with government's pension program - you only loose...
If freshly start self employed man has to pay 300 euros/ EVERY month for pension's fund, while his earnings are around 1,000 euros - and not always steady...it for sure slows down economy. government doesnt care if you earn money being self employed or not. what they do care about is their 300 euros/ month, like mobs.
same with companies that have to pay pension fund for their employees - thats why nobody want to give you (employees) contract now and many people work as a part time, free lancers and so on.
As far as I dislike it, it is still necessary. People fucking can't take care of themselves. Many people can't even save some money for a few months period, not even for decades to come! And as MaDalton pointed out, what would happen if people will retire, but they won't have any savings? The government (at least in the civilized world) will have to help them out financially.. so we are on square one again.
Not sure what's the solution, maybe some more classes about economics instead of literature or similar nonsense would help (in school years)Comment
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They have the worst economy is Europe...best for all is Greece to be out of the EUComment
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Lazy people who do not work and want free loan moneys. Let them go and be like Russian alone.Comment
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Not trying to hassle you but I guess you're kind of the defacto spokesman for Germany on this forum.
History might be written by the victorious but just the same your co-patriot predecessors still weren't by any means angels. Amongst other things they were legendary in their ability to steal everything including the stuff that was nailed down. So I'll agree in principle that the Greek government is obviously milking the excuse for their own benefit.
But just how much is fact and how much is milk?
If you had ever been in Greece prior to the E.U and the euro you would know that Greece was always a poor nation. BUT IT WORKED! It worked because of the Greek culture and the Greek mentality. They never needed the euro and they certainly never needed to be part of European Union.
I've got a great wall tapestry from Greece that says " No Money.... No Girlfriend... No Worries... GREECE!
Inside almost every Greek heart is someone that adores their family, would rather spend a day playing with children and can make a buck by standing on the street corner selling fruit, fish, etc. Unfortunately for the E.U. once a Greek has enough money to pay their bills they pretty much stop giving a shit about working.
(From what I remember most Greeks were happy to go home... go back to bed.. sleep.. get up at noon and get laid.. then eat dinner and later play with their children.)
Sorry but the European Union really fucked up that way of life and if you ask me it's how life should be!
Personally I support a financial default and a Greek exit from Europe. If it happens I'm going to buy land in Florina and find me a young Geek wife with a big set of hips and a dark hairy snatch. Then I'm going to lay on my ass all day in the sun growing a beard, drinking Mythos beer, eating grapes and seeing how many times I can impregnate my woman.
PS. I'm not Greek but I'm willing to change that."A slightly exposed shoulder emerging from a long silk nightgown packs more sex than two bodies naked in bed." - Bette Davis
I'm a shooter and I do business in private and I only take CASH.
PS I'm impossible to troll.
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wow, Germany is even considering paying Greece i read in the Dutch news. I hope other countries won't follow. But it could be good for Greece. Give them money so they can pay their debts and start over with the Drachme.
everything is fake
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Gread is like a big pot full with shit covered with a honeyComment
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im german
i find greece is one of the healthiest countries in whole europe
fantastic atmosphere ...Comment
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^ wordz o' wisdomComment
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Get it fucking leave the Euro zone and EU, make em another Montenegro - let's go cheap-atize 'em.Русня, идите нахуй!Comment
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that´s hot hot hot news!!!!
soon hot greek girls will find it tempting to taste the good life at naughty America´s
and of course for a piece of bread......
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athens is already seen a boom in prostitution.
Greek Prostitution Soars By 150% As Youth Unempoyment Hits 75% In Some Areas | Zero Hedge
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That is what i mean. People have to work longer in Greece before they can retire, but 75% of the youth is unemployed. What is that for solution?
I hope Greece will be fine. Have been there at least 10 times and planning to go there for a few months. But i don't want to pay for it while the Greek people with money transferred it out of the country.
Maybe sell Cyprus to Turkey Than that problem is also solved.
everything is fake
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Leave the European Union and go back to being and living like Greeks. Problem solved.That is what i mean. People have to work longer in Greece before they can retire, but 75% of the youth is unemployed. What is that for solution?
I hope Greece will be fine. Have been there at least 10 times and planning to go there for a few months. But i don't want to pay for it while the Greek people with money transferred it out of the country.
Maybe sell Cyprus to Turkey Than that problem is also solved."A slightly exposed shoulder emerging from a long silk nightgown packs more sex than two bodies naked in bed." - Bette Davis
I'm a shooter and I do business in private and I only take CASH.
PS I'm impossible to troll.
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