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EliteWebmaster

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#1

Fuck paypal

03-24-2015, 01:40 AM

I got scammed by Brandon Kagey from Scriptworkz:
http://gfy.com/sell-and-buy-forum/11...gmail-com.html

I filed a Paypal dispute, and they closed it within 6 hours saying:

We completed our investigation for the following transaction:

Case ID: PP-003-800-859-XXX
Transaction Date: Feb 24, 2015
Transaction Amount: -$XXXX USD
Seller's Email: [email protected]
Seller's Name: Eric Frye

Unfortunately, we are denying your claim because your purchase was for a
virtual, digital, or intangible item. Indeed, our PayPal Purchase
Protection only covers claims involving physical items that can be shipped
and tracked. Payments for intangible, digital items or services are
therefore not covered.

We encourage you to work directly with your seller to resolve the problem.
You'll find their contact information on the Transaction Details page.

It's nice to know Paypal doesn't protect buyers any longer and they are now protecting scammers. I am pissed beyond belief that Paypal is taking this stance. So basically what Paypal is saying is that if we buy anything that is not a PHYSICAL ITEM, we as buyers are fucked all day every day. What a bunch of bullshit. This basically protects the scammers because they don't have to give us what we pay for, as paypal protects them. I didn't pay from my credit card so I can't do a charge back either.

Any suggestions on recovering my money or reasoning with these Paypal idiots?
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CPA-Rush

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#2

03-24-2015, 02:10 AM

sick

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. daizzzy signbucks caution will black-hat black-hat your traffic

ignored forever :zuzana designs

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#3

03-24-2015, 02:13 AM

I had the same situation, more or less. I was able to get the money from the person thought. It is like saying, this is a car shop and we work on cars here, we cant refund the money for you because we worked on your car's wheels. Paypal is for Internet, and most of the things they do is digital. They treat people like idiots, when you talk to them.
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#4

03-24-2015, 02:14 AM

Sorry to hear, bad to lost xxxx$

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#5

03-24-2015, 02:20 AM

How would anyone insulate themselves against designers or web developers?

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EliteWebmaster

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#6

03-24-2015, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by CPA-Rush

sick

It definitely made me sick to my stomach reading that email from them

Originally posted by johnny_d

I had the same situation, more or less. I was able to get the money from the person thought. It is like saying, this is a car shop and we work on cars here, we cant refund the money for you because we worked on your car's wheels. Paypal is for Internet, and most of the things they do is digital. They treat people like idiots, when you talk to them.

I hear the horror stories from people on the net with their experiences with Paypal and you think they must have did something wrong but the more I deal with this company, the more I think Paypal is the problem. And you are right, Paypal is for net, so most of the things we buy are digital in some way shape or form. Talking to paypal is like banging your head against the wall, they do treat us like idiots
Glad to hear you got your money back though

Originally posted by seeandsee

Sorry to hear, bad to lost xxxx$

Sucks to lose any money. I can't imagine how many people are losing money this way to the Paypal bullshit way of doing things. Scammers paradise = Paypal

Originally posted by Diomed

How would anyone insulate themselves against designers or web developers?

Agreed, so stupid of them and despicable to knowingly protect the people doing the ripping off .
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#7

03-24-2015, 02:34 AM

I hate this, sorry buddy.
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#8

03-24-2015, 02:37 AM

shitty situation

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CPA-Rush

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#9

03-24-2015, 02:45 AM

"It definitely made me sick to my stomach reading that email from them "

i know man most sites/companies support are total shit ...

automatic exchange - paxum , bitcoin,pm, payza

. daizzzy signbucks caution will black-hat black-hat your traffic

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#10

03-24-2015, 02:49 AM

Should have said it was supposed to have been sent on a flash drive or SD Card... Then its no longer a 'virtual' thing...

Its a virtual thing on a physical product - Big difference.

OK, its lying, but he ripped you off...

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#11

03-24-2015, 03:30 AM

sorry that happened to you. i lost a similar case against a programmer, but have now learned the ways of paypal.

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#12

03-24-2015, 03:39 AM

Brandon Kagey = Zed

Sorry to hear that. Paypal is tard, but the evil in the story is the scammer dude.

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#13

03-24-2015, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by EliteWebmaster

I got scammed by Brandon Kagey from Scriptworkz:
http://gfy.com/sell-and-buy-forum/11...gmail-com.html

I filed a Paypal dispute, and they closed it within 6 hours saying:

We completed our investigation for the following transaction:

Case ID: PP-003-800-859-XXX
Transaction Date: Feb 24, 2015
Transaction Amount: -$XXXX USD
Seller's Email: [email protected]
Seller's Name: Eric Frye

Unfortunately, we are denying your claim because your purchase was for a
virtual, digital, or intangible item. Indeed, our PayPal Purchase
Protection only covers claims involving physical items that can be shipped
and tracked. Payments for intangible, digital items or services are
therefore not covered.

We encourage you to work directly with your seller to resolve the problem.
You'll find their contact information on the Transaction Details page.

It's nice to know Paypal doesn't protect buyers any longer and they are now protecting scammers. I am pissed beyond belief that Paypal is taking this stance. So basically what Paypal is saying is that if we buy anything that is not a PHYSICAL ITEM, we as buyers are fucked all day every day. What a bunch of bullshit. This basically protects the scammers because they don't have to give us what we pay for, as paypal protects them. I didn't pay from my credit card so I can't do a charge back either.

Any suggestions on recovering my money or reasoning with these Paypal idiots?

I ordered a tangible item that I never received and they told me to deal with the seller, who happens to be in the UK.

Never got my money back. Seller never replied. Paypal sucks sometimes, I agree.
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Adraco

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#14

03-24-2015, 04:16 AM

Paypal hasn't covered digital or virtual goods since at the very least 2009 when I started reading their TOS. This is nothing new and has been there for a very long time.

They simply do not have the time or ability to act as mediary going over says functionality in a script or anything similar. There has been numerous stories here before on this, and people have been shipping CDs with content and the script files on, just to have a shipping number and are in fact selling physical goods.

For amounts this large, I do not see why you do not go through a site built for this, like Freelancer.com.
It costs a bit more but your money are protected and milestones can be set, payout as work gets done, reviewed and approved.

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#15

03-24-2015, 05:07 AM

WTF are you guys complaining about? This is beautiful. Do you know how many assholes there are out there filing fake chargebacks all the time? I am glad someone has the balls to tell people to fuck off, you bought it, it's yours.

- As soon as I think up a good sig it's going here.
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#16

03-24-2015, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by Adraco

Paypal hasn't covered digital or virtual goods since at the very least 2009 when I started reading their TOS. This is nothing new and has been there for a very long time.

They simply do not have the time or ability to act as mediary going over says functionality in a script or anything similar. There has been numerous stories here before on this, and people have been shipping CDs with content and the script files on, just to have a shipping number and are in fact selling physical goods.

For amounts this large, I do not see why you do not go through a site built for this, like Freelancer.com.
It costs a bit more but your money are protected and milestones can be set, payout as work gets done, reviewed and approved.

Paypal never covered digital goods that I can remember.
If you downloaded it then paypal would not do any refund.

Too many people would download a product and then ask for a refund just so they
didn't have to pay.
So paypal has to do this; we the people did that to ourselves.

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CustomBusinessSoftware

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#17

03-24-2015, 05:15 AM

i never wish to use paypal because it got many issues many limits and no support

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#18

03-24-2015, 05:29 AM

Thought that was common knowledge,it sucks but it's always been that way

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#19

03-24-2015, 05:33 AM

It says the seller is Eric Frye, not Brandon Kagey?

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SmutHammer

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#20

03-24-2015, 05:36 AM

Paypal fucked me out of $750. I was able to get $250. back from the bank (fraud), but they ran me into circles until the bank could no longer do anything and then they told me that the transactions (same as other) was not fraud and the case was closed...
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#21

03-24-2015, 05:43 AM

I got the same issue, but with a physical product I purchased from a terrible company in Spain. A pulse watch from Polar that was DOA, returned, and now 3 months later still no refund and Paypal closed the case because they didnt "approve" my proof of returning product.

Trying to re-open the case, but they move slow.

FYI - Never buy anything from this company: trekkinn.com - Online outdoor shop, buy online outdoor clothing & trekking equipment. (they have like 13 other "INN" stores as well. Beware.

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#22

03-24-2015, 05:52 AM

We have dealt with Brandon for our scripting work and he was a nice guy to deal with my friend. Yes the amount of work and payment was not touching XXXX$ four digits but he complete the work on time and we pay him on time.

Regarding the dispute with PayPal, if you have paid him by your balance than you cant do any thing now but if you have paid him with credit card using PayPal (visa or master) than you can open a retail dispute with your bank and you will get pay your payment back. We have done this with one client and we are successful in that because we are all protected by card issues....

Beware doing this will close your PayPal account so better withdraw all funds out of it before filling retail dispute with your bank.

Originally posted by EliteWebmaster

I got scammed by Brandon Kagey from Scriptworkz:
http://gfy.com/sell-and-buy-forum/11...gmail-com.html

I filed a Paypal dispute, and they closed it within 6 hours saying:

We completed our investigation for the following transaction:

Case ID: PP-003-800-859-XXX
Transaction Date: Feb 24, 2015
Transaction Amount: -$XXXX USD
Seller's Email: [email protected]
Seller's Name: Eric Frye

Unfortunately, we are denying your claim because your purchase was for a
virtual, digital, or intangible item. Indeed, our PayPal Purchase
Protection only covers claims involving physical items that can be shipped
and tracked. Payments for intangible, digital items or services are
therefore not covered.

We encourage you to work directly with your seller to resolve the problem.
You'll find their contact information on the Transaction Details page.

It's nice to know Paypal doesn't protect buyers any longer and they are now protecting scammers. I am pissed beyond belief that Paypal is taking this stance. So basically what Paypal is saying is that if we buy anything that is not a PHYSICAL ITEM, we as buyers are fucked all day every day. What a bunch of bullshit. This basically protects the scammers because they don't have to give us what we pay for, as paypal protects them. I didn't pay from my credit card so I can't do a charge back either.

Any suggestions on recovering my money or reasoning with these Paypal idiots?

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anexsia

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#23

03-24-2015, 06:26 AM

Why don't you try calling Paypal? I've never had a single issue dealing with them and have always found their support great especially their phone reps...love my Paypal card too very convenient.
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#24

03-24-2015, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by EliteWebmaster

Any suggestions on recovering my money or reasoning with these Paypal idiots?

I don't know about the money, but it is usually police that deals with frauds. Getting money back is different thing, at least if the criminal is broke.

One reason for the huge amount of internet frauds is that people don't take those to police; the thing they would do if it would happen outside internet.
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#25

03-24-2015, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by 247mg

We have dealt with Brandon for our scripting work and he was a nice guy to deal with my friend. Yes the amount of work and payment was not touching XXXX$ four digits but he complete the work on time and we pay him on time.

Regarding the dispute with PayPal, if you have paid him by your balance than you cant do any thing now but if you have paid him with credit card using PayPal (visa or master) than you can open a retail dispute with your bank and you will get pay your payment back. We have done this with one client and we are successful in that because we are all protected by card issues....

Beware doing this will close your PayPal account so better withdraw all funds out of it before filling retail dispute with your bank.

Then I say don't file a retail dispute with the bank.
It's better to have a paypal account than not have one.

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247mg

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#26

03-24-2015, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by blackmonsters

Then I say don't file a retail dispute with the bank.
It's better to have a paypal account than not have one.

$XXXX is worth more than a PayPal account. Isn't it

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blackmonsters

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#27

03-24-2015, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by 247mg

$XXXX is worth more than a PayPal account. Isn't it

No.

If paypal closed my account I'd pay $XXXX just to get it back open.

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Va2k

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#28

03-24-2015, 07:14 AM

Hey man I feel for you, listen hit me up, if it is something I can code or design I can do it for you, with nothing down and only pay me when project is done and only pay what ever was left you were going to pay that scam dick head.

So. Nothing upfront, only pay when project is done, and when done only pay what you would of paid him to finish. That way you don't lose anything. *shrugs* Good luck.. Email is below.

Tom
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Framar

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#29

03-24-2015, 07:17 AM

It's your own fault for not knowing that PayPal doesn't cover any digital purchases. And for sending money up front. Never ever pay up front.
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#30

03-24-2015, 07:19 AM

You guys are complaining about nothing, or about a few fucking dollars.... fuck it. The bigger issue is that eBay, the Pay Pal owner, is the biggest pirate of YOUR product ( and mine) in the World. E bay merchants steal the shit and Pal Pal processes it. Almost EVERY one of my stolen movies on DVDs are being sold on e Bay ( processed by Pay Pal) by thieves, yet Pay Pal will not process my site because it has "naked lesbian vampires". I used to complain and they told me to file a lawsuit in Delaware or some other shitty state and sue the merchant
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#31

03-24-2015, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by Framar

It's your own fault for not knowing that PayPal doesn't cover any digital purchases. And for sending money up front. Never ever pay up front.

So nobody should hire you for work. If you fuck them over, it's their fault.

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WDF

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#32

03-24-2015, 07:26 AM

This is why you never prepay for anything. and never, ever prepay with PayPal.

Use your CC to fund PayPal when needed and charge-back through the CC issuer and forget the Paypal account.

I used to use PayPal to run several hosting businesses until fraud got to be over 20% now it is 2CO for PayPal transactions it is worth the extra point or 3 for the real fraud protection.

Sorry to hear of your misfortune, be sure to post about it everywhere you can so it shows on all search engines first page when searching his info.

Hit me up if you want to make the sellers life miserable. I just need some basic info and to iron out some details.

Please HELP
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#33

03-24-2015, 07:38 AM

That really sucks!
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#34

03-24-2015, 07:48 AM

Stupid post, stupid poster. Yes, it sucks. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Your best bet would be to find the motherfucker and beat it out of him.

Also, I am pretty sure I have seen his name around here recently or at the very least, the company. Let me take a gander.

I'll be back.

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#35

03-24-2015, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Harmon

Stupid post, stupid poster. Yes, it sucks. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Your best bet would be to find the motherfucker and beat it out of him.

Also, I am pretty sure I have seen his name around here recently or at the very least, the company. Let me take a gander.

I'll be back.

Strange thing is OP says seller is Brandon Kagey but the transaction he posted says seller is Eric Frye

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Harmon

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#36

03-24-2015, 07:52 AM

Here you go. It appears that at one time the guy was somewhat reputable. Apparently that has since changed.

Two weeks old:

http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...s-screwed.html

Always do your research.

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#37

03-24-2015, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by WDF

This is why you never prepay for anything*. and never, ever prepay with PayPal.

*Unless it's someone you know well and/or have had past very positive business dealings with.

I'd like to point out that the risk doesn't only roll one way. Plenty of sellers, service providers - designers, writers, etc, have done work for someone who 'hired' them and then once the work was done the person flaked and kept the work.

As a writer, and in the past as a web developer, designer, even a content provider at one time for 5 years, I've been prepaid for stuff plenty of times, never a problem. But I won't go spending hours or in some cases dozens of hours (or even hundreds) on a project for someone I know little about without getting at least something up front, so your hard-and-fast rule of "never prepay for anything" goes out the window.

Just be smart about whom you hire. Vet them. Get them on the phone beforehand, get a read on them, a sense of how solid they are. I realize it's no guarantee but based on this I've had some luck over the years with avoiding the kinds of clusterfucks that a lot of people have come on here complaining about.

Originally posted by WDF

Use your CC to fund PayPal when needed and charge-back through the CC issuer and forget the Paypal account.

Very sensible advice, that. I've been doing it that way for many years now.

Originally posted by WDF

Sorry to hear of your misfortune, be sure to post about it everywhere you can so it shows on all search engines first page when searching his info.

Indeed. It can actually only take one good keyword-rich forum post to hurt a company. I know this first-hand, as back in 1999 a company screwed me over, costing me lawyer's fees and plenty of headaches, even an undeserved black mark on my credit rating. It only took about six years for them to realize my ONE post on a mainstream forum was causing them to lose business. After the typical sabre-rattling of threatening to sue me they coughed up $2k to make things right with me, and I removed the post. (it's not libel if your comments are TRUE, which mine were)

Originally posted by WDF

Hit me up if you want to make the sellers life miserable. I just need some basic info and to iron out some details.

I'd be interested to hear what this Brandon's side of the issue would be, but when someone flakes on a deal as bad as this one appears to have done he deserves whatever comes.

As an aside; I constantly find these types of threads amazing. To be in business, and basically trash your good name and entire business just to rip someone off for a lousy few hundred, or a few grand (any amount really)... that level of short-sightedness truly boggles the mind. The ongoing income a person or company who maintains their credibility far out-earns any one scam, yet the ones who pull this crap don't seem smart enough to figure this out.

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#38

03-24-2015, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by CDSmith

I'd be interested to hear what this Brandon's side of the issue would be, but when someone flakes on a deal as bad as this one appears to have done he deserves whatever comes.

In another thread by the OP from yesterday:

http://gfy.com/mainstream-business-d...gmail-com.html

Originally posted by ScriptWorkz

This thread was just brought to my attention. This is more a miscommunication issue then anything. I emailed you some questions that I wanted answered so I could finalize things and info on the staging area so you could check things out in the meantime last week and hadn't heard back, in the email I also mentioned I'd be largely unavailable for the next few days but I'm assuming since you made this thread you never saw it. Replying on my phone now but once I get back here in a bit I'll dig up the email and resend it so we can get this cleared up and deployed within the next day or so for you. I assure you I'm not trying to screw you or ruin my reputation over $200 after being in the biz for over ten years

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#39

03-24-2015, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by sarettah

In another thread by the OP from yesterday:

http://gfy.com/mainstream-business-d...gmail-com.html

Interesting

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#40

03-24-2015, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by 247mg

We have dealt with Brandon for our scripting work and he was a nice guy to deal with my friend. Yes the amount of work and payment was not touching XXXX$ four digits but he complete the work on time and we pay him on time.

Regarding the dispute with PayPal, if you have paid him by your balance than you cant do any thing now but if you have paid him with credit card using PayPal (visa or master) than you can open a retail dispute with your bank and you will get pay your payment back. We have done this with one client and we are successful in that because we are all protected by card issues....

Beware doing this will close your PayPal account so better withdraw all funds out of it before filling retail dispute with your bank.

Not only will it close your Paypal account, but depending on your jurisdiction Paypal WILL come after you for the balance, either via collections or lawsuit where it's possible.

- As soon as I think up a good sig it's going here.
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#41

03-24-2015, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by sarettah

In another thread by the OP from yesterday:

http://gfy.com/mainstream-business-d...gmail-com.html

Ah, I see his reply now. I looked at the thread when it was posted but see now that he replied yesterday.

Looks like this issue might be cleared up, by the tone of that response. Hopefully so, I always love a happy ending.

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Barry-xlovecam

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#42

03-24-2015, 08:54 AM

1/3 up front

1/3 at an agreed progress point

1/3 at final acceptance

At least you can only get burned for 1/3 that way ... either party.
Be wary of associate sellers of Amazon -- that has generated most of my returns but Amazon is good about RMAs and refunds.
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#43

03-24-2015, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by Harmon

Stupid post, stupid poster.

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#44

03-24-2015, 09:23 AM

What a clusterfuck.

In this thread: http://gfy.com/mainstream-business-d...gmail-com.html

Scriptworkz answered you at around 11:00am CST.

In this thread: http://gfy.com/sell-and-buy-forum/11...gmail-com.html

At around 1:00pm CST (2 hours later) you say:

Originally posted by EliteWebmaster

Another day and still no reply from him

Dude, if you are gonna do the multiple thread thing then you have to know how to manage it properly, unless of course, at this point you are just trying to smear the guy and are no longer interested in getting the job done or your money back.

Just my

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Va2k

I’m still alive barley.

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#45

03-24-2015, 10:15 AM

WOW never mind,, I should of stayed the fuck out of this... Seems like you freaked out for no good reason seeing the man replied several times to your several post. WOW lesson learned from me.
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romeo22

你自己去他媽的

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#46

03-24-2015, 10:29 AM

Fuck few scam threads a week
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sandman!

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#47

03-24-2015, 10:31 AM

there is a reason every paypal payment i make is thru amx you can chargeback shit like this.

I havent opened up a paypal dispute in years amx handles all that for me

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EliteWebmaster

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#48

03-24-2015, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by Fungus

WOW never mind,, I should of stayed the fuck out of this... Seems like you freaked out for no good reason seeing the man replied several times to your several post. WOW lesson learned from me.

Originally posted by EliteWebmaster

Thanks Trainwreck bud, good news is that Brandon contacted me and he said he was having email problems and he is working towards finishing the project. I will post a folllowup update as soon as the project is finished and in my hands Thanks guys for all your support and help

http://gfy.com/sell-and-buy-forum/11...gmail-com.html

I did post a follow up update to the main thread as soon as I heard from him as you can see above. He didn't reply "several times" as you mentioned. Just one time. But this was after 9 days of not hearing from him. It looks like Brandon Kagey (Eric Frye is the paypal account of his associate from what he told me whom he used to received the Paypal payment from). I listed his name as Brandon Kagey was the name in the email but there have been instances where people use fake names on GFY but their paypal account is their real name to have more privacy which makes sense.

In an case, I do apologize for not updating it in the other thread I made as sarettah mentioned, I honestly thought the 2nd scammer thread was deleted by a mod as I made 3 threads, one in Buy Sell, one in Now Hiring and another one in Business. a GFY moderator helped deleted the one in Business for me but I think he/she missed deleting the one in Now Hiring also. Either way, I apologize for not updating the second thread also.

Hopefully it gets resolved, it still doesn't change my opinion of Paypal. They are idiots because the way they handle "intangible goods" opens the door for scammers

A scammer could theoretically open a paypal account, offer something for sale digitally (fake software for example) collect payments through paypal and then not deliver it and Paypal would stand behind the scumbag and protect him. That is messed up
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EliteWebmaster

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#49

03-24-2015, 12:22 PM

I should add that Brandon said that me not getting his email from him a few days ago was due to possibly being a problem on his end because I checked my inbox/spam folder and never received anything.

Brandon Kagey
3:39 PM (22 hours ago)

to me
Hey i just sent you a longer email, was gonna send from an alternative email but the mail client on my phone sent it from my standard gmail, if you get this one and not the bigger email let me know and i'll resend from a diff. account. Think there's some issue w/ this account that led to you not getting my previous email/me not seeing anything from you but i'm not sure. Hopefully you'll get it and can safely ignore this email.
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blackmonsters

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#50

03-24-2015, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Fungus

WOW never mind,, I should of stayed the fuck out of this... Seems like you freaked out for no good reason seeing the man replied several times to your several post. WOW lesson learned from me.

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