My experience is with Members Area traffic, not purchasing ads or buying traffic to send to offers. I stand behind my comments. So, you know, bye.


I never said I wasn't making money with cams. It's just that it's odd (don't you think) that I, along with many other affiliates, find this strange pattern of initial sales followed by less and less even if the traffic remains steady or grows? Hmmm.

No, I was saying I'm not making AS MUCH MONEY as I probably should be making with cams BUT, as an affiliate (not the owner of the program), how would I ever know? I just accept whatever the company's stats tell me is true. And we all know stats can never, ever be manipulated. :D

Because when it's new and users see it for the first few times, they respond. Once they've seen it or checked it out, they stop clicking. Just like with any ppc campaign - a banner/link/offer has a lifespan. Initially it kills it, then it slowly dies out as everyone has been exposed to it.

Just kidding. Sponsors always steal.

LOL No I know man. That's why I rotate banners and ads, etc. The thing I was getting at is with a business model where the customer, once they are in the store, can theoretically spend endless amounts of money, it's more difficult to track. It shouldn't be but often obviously is.

In other words, tho I've been promoting cams for years inside my Mem Areas (my ever-growing Mem Areas, I add) I always, always, always make around the same amount, month after month. You would THINK, just from the sheer odds of it, that one guy might spend a little more on a cam show, no? I read about 'whales' spending 10K+ over several months on a girl. How come I never get a windfall like that?

I am being VERY general here. I am sure there are respectable cam companies. But it stands to reason that if cams and dating are the last remaining mega-profitable areas in Adult as everyone says then that's where the fiscal shenanigans are going to take place. So like the OP scrutinizing the TOS you gotta keep an eye out, that's all. :)

I agree that behavior trumps promises. However, if someone promises that they will treat me badly, I tend to believe them.

Why would you assume that someone promising to mistreat all affiliates is going to be different with you because you are special?

But this discussion is about "gotcha" moments by scanning a programs TOS and picking it apart. No program has EVER "promised" to treat you badly. A TOS page is meaningless and even moreso, if you actually have any traffic. Not that it shouldn't be read and understood,... but no serious, established company is going to refrain from doing the right thing when dealing with a legitimate webmaster. Those are the companies you work with. You don't choose a place to send traffic to based on a page which a 16 yr old Indian designer stole from another program and where the idiotic program owners likely only did a search and replace for names. You work with serious, established people that you can trust with your traffic and trust to pay you. That means they have to have a track record of doing the right thing. All business' are the same. Good sense is good sense. Managing risk well is managing risk well.

I think its always important to read the TOS. I just think that its not a basis for judgement calls when it comes to "who to trust" as all TOS are heavily skewed and if you are actually legit, are not strictly adhered to, by any means.

They are generally to hedge against cheaters and fraud and worded accordingly and always have been and should not be a measuring stick to determine how they treat legit webmasters with legit traffic, doing legit business. For example, i highly doubt you'll ever have a dispute with any program that has been around unless they simply can't pay because they are going out of business. The vast majority of programs will fail. That is a fact. Who cares how awesome their TOS is if you can't rely on them to be around and pay you what they owe you because they have a short history?

About cams and dating, my personal view is that there is always a big misunderstanding. Cams and dating are not more successful today than they were in 1998. I mean, people get hardons for big spenders in cams and think that means something but when it comes to earnings per unique visitor, it still doesn't pan out. Cams are generally very very hard to convert for most people so when it comes to earnings per click, people aren't usually better off playing with cams unless they are specializing. Depending on how you are doing things from your members area, i could guess you aren't seeing better than 1:300-500 uniques to paid sale and members area traffic is literally the best traffic there is for targeting users who are qualified and will pay. Find the right SOI dating offers, filter by goe's to the right offers etc and you can generally get much much much higher EPCs.

I've owned very large cam studios and cam sites and I don't promote cams really at all except white labels that get search traffic. I buy a lot of traffic from tube sites and it all goes to dating. Dating has always been a top converter for any type of traffic since AFF was launched and warez sites were big and had a lot of hard to convert traffic.

Penis pills, dating, pickup artist stuff do better than porn overall in terms of EPC's because of the user's motivation... which to me, looks something like this:

1) Meet real girl today and have actual sex today.
2) Make penis larger, meet more real girls and have tons of actual sex daily.
3) Learn to meet girls and meet girls everyday and have actual sex daily.
4) Interact with real girls and get them to do anything I want them to do right now.
5) Browse and watch random medium to poor quality videos on a tube site
6) Join a site and be stuck with over-marketed, over-hyped content, a disappointing members area and then risk getting my card banged until i cancel it.

First, thanks for the tutorial! I (and many others reading this) appreciate it for sure. :) Cams are not my specialty so my views are very skewed, specific and frankly myopic. This doesn't mean I'm wrong per se, it just means my knowledge is highly limited.

This is why I never specifically call out any program because I have learned that what works for me (and doesn't work for me) is not the same for anyone else. Everyone does things their own way. It's interesting about what you say and the return. To hear people talk you would think cams are the Golden Land. LOL

I also like your take on dating. While I'm sure there are surfers visiting tubes who just want a quick wank plenty of others are visiting "in-between" girlfriends and want real live sex.

I need to get out more I think. Been listening to 'Queen II' all day while editing anal videos so I'm sure none of this is healthy. :)

Interestingly, my cam numbers today track perfectly with my numbers from 2000 (value per user, time to reach that value etc). It's a tough game though and I agree with you, stick to what you know and do well and don't spend too much time on other stuff.

If an adult program has a 16 year old Indian designer spin their legal docs, that doesn't seem very serious and longevity-oriented.

I'm sure you are right that some programs do this and have never even read their own TOS. Maybe some of those will read this thread and realize how that looks to many webmasters.

Someone who is mean to the waiter, but nice to you, is not a nice person.

A program which rips off someone smaller, but is nice to you, is not to be trusted.

I've always loved that quote/idea and use it to help me when assessing people and businesses.

Dear Forkbeard,

Thanks for checking on the consistency of our site and TOS content. As I've already replied to your post our FAQs and TOS are in the process of being updated. In fact, as of now the minimum payout for PayPal/Payoneer/Paxum is indeed $50 and for a wire transfer - $500. You have my (i.e. official company rep's) word for it. I apologize to you and other affiliates for the confusion and this should be fixed soon.

Best,
Alex

Yes as a program I wished affiliates at least have read the basic instructions, they often just popup in icq/skype asking things written in the affiliate page that they are lazy to read... I write myself all the instructions and TOS pages and I am honestly upset that no one ever reads that...

our cam program have PPS and CPA, not revshare. But our minimum payment is $20 and we can do paypal for small amounts. We can also fund any visa/mastercard via a partner (works like a refund on card). However most affiliates use payoneer and paxum , why don't you use that, you're burned by epassporte?

As several wrote here, what it matters most is the program always paid for years. I would be afraid of new programs (less than 1 years old) whatever they wrote in the TOS.