News Toronto bans e-cigs/vaping

[SilentKnight]

Nice job - all you fucking useless twats at Toronto city council.

Way to support the tobacco lobbyists.

Two weeks after the Toronto medical officer of health recommended a city-wide ban on e-cigarettes, members of Toronto City Council voted to ban the products from city work spaces.

At council's last meeting ahead of the municipal election in October, 36 councillors voted in support of the ban and two voted against.

The approval means City of Toronto employees will not be permitted to use e-cigarettes in municipal work places. Council also requested that the general manager of solid waste management investigate methods of disposal of e-cigarettes.

Full story.

[_Richard_]

another canadian success story

[JFK]

all the better to protect you, from yourself <<<<<<< Real smoke, hope GFY doesnt ban it

[DirtyDanza]

I gotta be honest... Vape smokers are the most inconsiderate smokers around ..... cool you cape... do you have to do it in the restaurant and blow your fucking smoke in my direction?

seriously.... I think they should ban em all... and I'm a smoker.... you wanna smoke go be discrete...

[baddog]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Nice job - all you fucking useless twats at Toronto city council.

Way to support the tobacco lobbyists.



Full story.

How does this support tobacco lobbyists? City employees can smoke tobacco but not vape?

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by baddog

How does this support tobacco lobbyists? City employees can smoke tobacco but not vape?

The tobacco industry is taking a financial hit with the increase in e-cig sales - and are undoubtedly supporting the efforts to have e-cigs regulated/banned to dissuade cigarette smokers from switching to vaping.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

The tobacco industry is taking a financial hit with the increase in e-cig sales - and are undoubtedly supporting the efforts to have e-cigs regulated/banned to dissuade cigarette smokers from switching to vaping.

Yep...and the govt. is shitting it's pants as well. All that "anti-smoking" b.s. that the govt. puts out is really just a way to justify the HUGE taxes they put on cigarettes.

That's big time revenue for the govt.

I live in the smoking capital of the world: Las Vegas

And I'd say it's 70/30 vaping over cigarettes as I walk through the casinos.

If the govt. really gave a fuck about our health, they would encourage people to move from cigarettes to vaping.
Instead, they are losing billions in "sin tax" that they imposed on the tobacco industry products.

Now they are trying to figure out a way to vilify vaping.
They have to come up with a way to use the media to convince people that water vapor (you know, like in your vaporizer at home, or a steam room, or any stage production with a water based fog machine) is suddenly "dangerous".

That way they can start taxing the hell out of it.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

I gotta be honest... Vape smokers are the most inconsiderate smokers around ..... cool you cape... do you have to do it in the restaurant and blow your fucking smoke in my direction?

seriously.... I think they should ban em all... and I'm a smoker.... you wanna smoke go be discrete...

what smoke? and that sounds like an idiot problem, not an ecig problem.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yep...and the govt. is shitting it's pants as well. All that "anti-smoking" b.s. that the govt. puts out is really just a way to justify the HUGE taxes they put on cigarettes.

That's big time revenue for the govt.

I live in the smoking capital of the world: Las Vegas

And I'd say it's 70/30 vaping over cigarettes as I walk through the casinos.

If the govt. really gave a fuck about our health, they would encourage people to move from cigarettes to vaping.
Instead, they are losing billions in "sin tax" that they imposed on the tobacco industry products.

Now they are trying to figure out a way to vilify vaping.
They have to come up with a way to use the media to convince people that water vapor (you know, like in your vaporizer at home, or a steam room, or any stage production with a water based fog machine) is suddenly "dangerous".

That way they can start taxing the hell out of it.

Well said, Robbie.

I quite agree with it all.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yep...and the govt. is shitting it's pants as well. All that "anti-smoking" b.s. that the govt. puts out is really just a way to justify the HUGE taxes they put on cigarettes.

That's big time revenue for the govt.

I live in the smoking capital of the world: Las Vegas

And I'd say it's 70/30 vaping over cigarettes as I walk through the casinos.

If the govt. really gave a fuck about our health, they would encourage people to move from cigarettes to vaping.
Instead, they are losing billions in "sin tax" that they imposed on the tobacco industry products.

Now they are trying to figure out a way to vilify vaping.
They have to come up with a way to use the media to convince people that water vapor (you know, like in your vaporizer at home, or a steam room, or any stage production with a water based fog machine) is suddenly "dangerous".

That way they can start taxing the hell out of it.

I switched to ecigs purely out of spite, so as to give the govt as little as possible out of my addiction. they gave a fuck about health they'd ban smoking outright. funny as fuck to watch them, and all the other anti-smoking nazis shitting their fucking pants now revenue is decreasing, and there are jobs at stake, and their taxes will have to go up at some point because d'uh, smoking doesn't cost more medically than it brings in.

I'll be a nicotine addicted cunt laughing my addled to fuck lungs out when all that comes

[MrBottomTooth]

How are you currently suppose to handle ecigs in public buildings in the rest of the province? If someone lights one up in your building I assume you dont have to to tell them to put it out? Would like to avoid any fines.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Robbie

If the govt. really gave a fuck about our health, they would encourage people to move from cigarettes to vaping.

And you know the long-term effects of vaping over smoking?

[The Truth Hurts]

I was puffing my ecig in my doctors office this morning while getting my yearly physical. He thought it was great because all the other shit he's tried to get me to use to help with quitting with haven't done shit.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

How are you currently suppose to handle ecigs in public buildings in the rest of the province? If someone lights one up in your building I assume you dont have to to tell them to put it out? Would like to avoid any fines.

For now it seems to be a municipal issue - not (yet) provincially mandated.

I work out of City Hall in another city - and there are at least a half dozen of us that regularly vape throughout the day on city-owned property. We've had absolutely no issues from other city staff...no complaints.

So far, the e-cig issue hasn't been discussed at our city council meetings...and I've heard no intention of it. We're hoping the ban in Toronto doesn't set a precedent that all municipalities adopt.

I was reading the report that Toronto based their decision on - and it went so far as to suggest a ban on the sale of "all flavoured e-juice" - which pretty much includes everything in the stores.

The justification they're giving for the ban in Toronto isn't based on factual scientific studies. It's purely fear-mongering - or as Robbie said above - their attempt to vilify the e-cig industry.

[MediaGuy]

It's not just the direct taxes from sales the Government is starting to sting from, or the revenues to the Big Tobacco companies.

Under the 1998 Master Settlement Agreement with the tobacco companies, Big Tobacco is supposed to pay billions per year over decades to compensate for health care and other issues created by their industry's prior decades of lies and propagation of tobacco use, and also to be protected against lawsuits or specifically tort actions against them.

States actually started selling "tobacco bonds" over the expected revenue, which payments were determined by sales volumes.

And since anti-tobacco propaganda has been so successful, and electronic cigarettes have started taking a major chunk of that revenue, states (especially) have started growing alarmed about those bonds defaulting. In some states, they *have* technically defaulted, and I'm not sure how but they're still being secured...

But don't wonder why state and even local governments are creating false fear and lie-based legislation against e-cigs, banning their use as if they had anything to do with tobacco, demonizing vapor, and claiming "we have no research"...

It's all about the money they stand to lose - not just revenue, but bond default. They've basically been betting people will keep smoking and getting sick since 1998, hoping tobacco sales don't go down as sharply as they have...

Other happy recipients of the billions of dollars of tobacco settlement money are the American Lung Association, American Heart Association, American Cancer Society, the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids... these people stand to lose their reason to be if Tobacco goes bye-bye, and people aren't afflicted anymore...


:D

[WDF]

Some what misleading title.

City of Toronto employees will not be permitted to use e-cigarettes in municipal work places.

Nothing on bans any where else.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by baddog

And you know the long-term effects of vaping over smoking?

I've used a vaporizer on and off since I was a child whenever I had a cold. I've used steamrooms at the gym for years. I played in bands all over the country with a fog machine running full blast every night. I've attended lots of concerts and stage production with fog machines being used.

And most of all... I have common sense to know that water vapor isn't dangerous.

[Spunky]

Starting to happen at the bars etc here in Vancouver.It's because the people are putting in hash oil

[Aric]

4 ingredients vs. 4000 chemicals -- I'll take my chances with e-cigs.

Sure there's no long-term research, but I'll bet on e-cigs at this point: 2 ingredients found in food additives (PG/VG), water, nicotine (in itself not lethal unless in high doses), and flavoring usually used in baking.

I am not one of those that will sit in the mall foodcourt and vape away, but to anyone with any kind of intelligence, it's quite easy to see what's going on here.

They're worried about kids "graduating" to cigarettes? Really? Whatever.

[VikingMan]

communists

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I've used a vaporizer on and off since I was a child whenever I had a cold. I've used steamrooms at the gym for years. I played in bands all over the country with a fog machine running full blast every night. I've attended lots of concerts and stage production with fog machines being used.

And most of all... I have common sense to know that water vapor isn't dangerous.

Oh, vaporizers are the same as what we use on babies? No chemicals? Just water? That's interesting.

[Dead]

I was waiting to see this unfold, very interesting to see it start in Canada?

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yep...and the govt. is shitting it's pants as well. All that "anti-smoking" b.s. that the govt. puts out is really just a way to justify the HUGE taxes they put on cigarettes.

That's big time revenue for the govt.

I live in the smoking capital of the world: Las Vegas

And I'd say it's 70/30 vaping over cigarettes as I walk through the casinos.

If the govt. really gave a fuck about our health, they would encourage people to move from cigarettes to vaping.
Instead, they are losing billions in "sin tax" that they imposed on the tobacco industry products.

Now they are trying to figure out a way to vilify vaping.
They have to come up with a way to use the media to convince people that water vapor (you know, like in your vaporizer at home, or a steam room, or any stage production with a water based fog machine) is suddenly "dangerous".

That way they can start taxing the hell out of it.

Actually the government here, despite collecting huge taxes on cigarettes, is pretty anti-smoking. In Montreal it's been against the law to smoke indoors for a long time, but now they are extending. You have to be 8 feet away from a building, you can't smoke in public parks, etc.

I think what the government learned is that the tax they were charging were just not enough to keep up with medicare. So by killing cigarettes, they hope to reduce the number of people in the hospital due to smoke-related illnesses.

[Phoenix]

The move in Toronto is to ban all forms of smoking. Not just Vaping abut cigarettes also.

I think smoking should be done in private. Personally and i know this feeling won't be shared but i think if you smoke a cigarette in front of a minor you should be charged with a crime.
Smoking isn't cool fool!!!

[Dead]

So the dollar has another fuse lit that may effect the governments bottom line, It's almost like paint by number at this point...Really, this is getting to easy anymore.

Legalize, everything! Let fate decide the rest.

[Dvae]

We already have liberals going after them. Its only a matter of time.

A group of Democratic senators are calling for a ban of e-cigarettes on Capitol grounds.
Citing the House and Senate?s existing ban on smoking in public spaces, Sens. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), Edward Markey (D-Mass.), Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), and Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.) are calling for the same restrictions to be extended to e-cigarettes and their vapor.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/0...#ixzz3BSXPg1Er

Ironically these same people would most likely approve of Mary Jew Wanna.

[iSpyCams]

Originally Posted by DirtyDanza

I gotta be honest... Vape smokers are the most inconsiderate smokers around ..... cool you cape... do you have to do it in the restaurant and blow your fucking smoke in my direction?

seriously.... I think they should ban em all... and I'm a smoker.... you wanna smoke go be discrete...

Yeah, um, vapers aren't smokers. e-cigs don't produce smoke. Learn to mind your own fucking business and not get your panties in a bunch over other people's choices that don't affect you. You'll be a slightly better person and the world will be a slightly better place.

[mineistaken]

I sort of agree with that, imagine people vaping at city council meetings and other city workspaces... It is natural ban.
They can go out for a vape (just like those smoking real cigs), can't they?

[Dead]

So farts are still allowed at these meetings? I find that way more disgusting then esmoke.

[Dead]

I wish they would ban public farting,......and prosecute anyone that does this in public. I mean come on, anyone ever been in the elevator with some old fucker that just lets it rip??????? Way worse then cig of any kind?

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

I sort of agree with that, imagine people vaping at city council meetings and other city workspaces... It is natural ban.
They can go out for a vape (just like those smoking real cigs), can't they?

Sure, they can go outside for a vape.

And the coffee drinkers should drink outside, too. The water vapor coming off their coffee is just as harmful as the water vapor produced from an e-cig.

[The Porn Nerd]

It's all 100% about MONEY.
Once the Govts of the world figure out a way to justify taxing e-cigs all will be fine, you watch.

[Captain Kawaii]

WebMD News from HealthDay

By Dennis Thompson

HealthDay Reporter

WEDNESDAY, May 7, 2014 (HealthDay News) -- E-cigarettes may not be as harmless as they initially seemed. New research suggests that e-cigarette vapor produces tiny particles that users suck deep into their lungs, potentially causing or worsening respiratory diseases.

The particles are of comparable size to those contained in cigarette smoke, and as many as 40 percent of them reach the deepest part of the lungs when inhaled, said Jonathan Thornburg, lead investigator and a senior research engineer at RTI International, a North Carolina research institute.

That means if the particles turn out to be harmful, they'll be causing damage throughout the lungs.

"These small particles have a high surface area-to-volume ratio," Thornburg said. "When they deposit in your lungs, it makes it easy for whatever chemicals are in them to dissolve into your lung tissue." Those chemicals potentially could cause or worsen respiratory problems such as asthma or bronchitis.

In its review of emissions from two types of e-cigarettes, Thornburg's team did not find any toxic substances in the vapor produced by the devices.

"Everything we found was what the [U.S. Food and Drug Administration] and others generally regard as safe," he said, noting that the cancer-causing agents produced by burning tobacco are not present in e-cigarettes.

But another new study raises the possibility that the liquids used to produce e-cigarette vapors could contain carcinogens or harmful ingredients, The New York Times reports.

The study found formaldehyde, a known carcinogen, in overheated vapor produced by high-power e-cigarette devices known as tank systems, the newspaper reported. These systems are larger devices than typical e-cigarettes, and are designed to vaporize liquid nicotine quickly to give users a bigger nicotine kick.

These studies provide even more impetus for the FDA's recent proposal to begin regulating e-cigarettes as tobacco products, said Dr. Norman Edelman, senior medical advisor for the American Lung Association.

"We certainly don't believe e-cigarettes are a safe alternative," Edelman said. "The question is whether it's a safer alternative, and we believe those results aren't in yet. This is a tobacco product and should be regulated by the FDA as all tobacco products should."

Thornburg and his colleagues tested the vapor from e-cigarettes using a new smoking machine built to replicate the physical experience of a 14-year-old boy using one of the devices.

They first tested an e-cigarette liquid designed to create a tobacco flavor. That liquid produced particles about 184 nanometers in size. A second liquid -- this one with a fruit punch flavor -- produced particles about 270 nanometers in size. Those are within the same range as the particles in cigarette smoke, according to Thornburg.

The researchers also found that 47 percent of the inhaled emissions deposited in the lungs, with nearly all of these particles reaching the deepest part of the lungs.

http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessati...rticles-review

[ErectMedia]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

The tobacco industry is taking a financial hit with the increase in e-cig sales - and are undoubtedly supporting the efforts to have e-cigs regulated/banned to dissuade cigarette smokers from switching to vaping.

A few e-cigs are actually made by tobacco companies as they got smart.

Did hear they are trying to ban Menthol cigarettes.

[Gerco]

Originally Posted by baddog

And you know the long-term effects of vaping over smoking?

Here is a little light reading for you to help educate you on what "vaping" is...

BTW, the short version... PG has been used as aerosol disinfectant in hospitals since the 40's... there are shit loads of studies on it and it's long term safety.

http://mnvapers.com/2014/04/epa-fda-...less-children/

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/91/1/52.abstract

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0E82IX20140528

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...r-patches.html

http://acsh.org/2013/08/new-study-fi...n-e-cig-vapor/

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18

http://acsh.org/2013/08/new-study-fi...n-e-cig-vapor/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...r-patches.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0E82IX20140528

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

E-cigarettes may not be as harmless as they initially seemed. New research suggests that e-cigarette vapor produces tiny particles that users suck deep into their lungs, potentially causing or worsening respiratory diseases.

Sounds like they are "fishing" for anything they can find to scare people and allow the govt. to "regulate" (meaning TAX) ecigs.

"particles"...I bet that if you are walking down a crowded city street you get more "particles" deep in your lungs (and actually harmful ones).

And I can guarantee you that here in Vegas on one of our really windy days...you are sucking down a lot of "particles" in the form of sand that would definitely take you out if you had respiratory disease.

And why the hell are they worrying about people who already have respiratory disease from smoking tobacco anyway?
So they switch to ecigs and are much better off...but wait, it's still "bad"? WTF?

[Robbie]

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where some people didn't try to control everyone else? Guess that world will never exist.

[TeenCat]

money talks, people are dying ...

[PAR]

I'm all for only being able to use them in the same area as a cigarette. But then I'm trying to stop smoking not extend the range of my habits.

Personally I found it helped me cut down on my smoking ..
But I stopped using them for now because I kept losing them and need to go buy a few more.

[Frank]

I died from taking too many steamy showers said no-one ever.

[dyna mo]

I have a hard time believing there is a government plot against e-cigs due to a decrease in cigarette tax.

that really makes no sense, what does make sense, is taxing e-cigs, which is exactly what is happening.

If anyone has any proof that the gov's solution to a decrease in tax revenue from ciggs leading to a government plot to villify ecigs, I'd certainly be interested.


Also, it's a fact that BO increased the federal tax on ciggarettes in 2009 precisely because an increase in the tax like that has been shown to DECREASE the # of cigarette smokers.

One of the reasons for the support of increased cigarette taxes among public health officials is that many studies show that this leads to a decrease in smoking rates.[16] The relationship between smoking rates and cigarette taxes follows the property of elasticity; the greater the amount of the tax increase, the fewer cigarettes that are bought and consumed.

This is especially prevalent amongst teenagers. For every ten percent increase in the price of a pack of cigarettes, youth smoking rates overall drop about seven percent.

This rate is also true amongst minorities and low income population smokers. The rates of calls to quitting hot-lines are directly related to cigarette tax hikes. When Wisconsin raised its state cigarette tax to $1.00 per pack, the hot-line received a record of 20,000 calls in a two month time period versus its typical 9,000 calls annually.

[PR_Glen]

banning them from being used indoors.. do you guys all have reading comprehension problems or what? Get a grip.

No chemicals should be aloud within the workplace no less municipal buildings, even strong perfume is bad. Please don't pretend the chemicals in 'vaping' aren't harmful as well--That is such bullshit... Smells like fuckin burnt plastic, just because you can't smell it doesn't mean it's not there.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

Please don't pretend the chemicals in 'vaping' aren't harmful as well--That is such bullshit... Smells like fuckin burnt plastic, just because you can't smell it doesn't mean it's not there.

First you say it "Smell like fuckin burnt plastic" and then you say "you can't smell it"

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

banning them from being used indoors.. do you guys all have reading comprehension problems or what? Get a grip.

No chemicals should be aloud within the workplace no less municipal buildings, even strong perfume is bad. Please don't pretend the chemicals in 'vaping' aren't harmful as well--That is such bullshit... Smells like fuckin burnt plastic, just because you can't smell it doesn't mean it's not there.

so perfume is ok, but vaping isn't?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

banning them from being used indoors.. do you guys all have reading comprehension problems or what? Get a grip.

No chemicals should be aloud within the workplace no less municipal buildings, even strong perfume is bad. Please don't pretend the chemicals in 'vaping' aren't harmful as well--That is such bullshit... Smells like fuckin burnt plastic, just because you can't smell it doesn't mean it's not there.

I was shopping last week at sports authority, the guy behind the counter said I smelled delicious. I was vaping Vanillla Custard at the time. And Glen, you know I'm not a pretty man. Vaping is harmless, there's so little nicotine in spent vape, that a large cooked pizza emits more nicotine.

I'm all for banning them indoors, there's no reason for anyone to blow a cloud in a restaurant, just because they can. How hard is it to stealth vape, it's fairly easy. Hold it in, voila, no vapor. But it's the assholes who vape that will cause an issue for the rest of us.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Hold it in, voila, no vapor.

the truly funny thing about all this..

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Sure, they can go outside for a vape.

And the coffee drinkers should drink outside, too. The water vapor coming off their coffee is just as harmful as the water vapor produced from an e-cig.

Not the same amount Amount from coffee is not annoying.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Not the same amount Amount from coffee is not annoying.

We were in New York a couple of years ago at a strip club that Claudia Marie was featuring at.

It was early April and there was snow because it was still really cold.

The club had a small outside area at a backdoor. And almost the entire club and dancers would be outside freezing their asses off to have a smoke.

It wasn't even close...looked like 80% of the people there smoked. And yet, they were forced to go outside of the club in freezing weather to smoke a cigarette.
Totally ridiculous (especially to me living in Vegas where people are free to smoke).

And the entire reason for that is supposed to be to "protect" people who don't smoke from "second hand smoke". Okay fair enough.

But now? With e-cigs emitting water vapor? There are no carcinogens in it. And absolutely no reason for some people to be able to lord over other people.

And no reason for people to be forced out of a strip club into bitter cold weather to have a smoke.

The E-Cig doesn't pose the risks of tobacco. And yet, instead of being pleased about that...you see the true colors of people who push for "banning" shit.
It's all about control.

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Sounds like they are "fishing" for anything they can find to scare people and allow the govt. to "regulate" (meaning TAX) ecigs.

"particles"...I bet that if you are walking down a crowded city street you get more "particles" deep in your lungs (and actually harmful ones).

And I can guarantee you that here in Vegas on one of our really windy days...you are sucking down a lot of "particles" in the form of sand that would definitely take you out if you had respiratory disease.

And why the hell are they worrying about people who already have respiratory disease from smoking tobacco anyway?
So they switch to ecigs and are much better off...but wait, it's still "bad"? WTF?

I'm all for letting people do anything they want as long as they do not come back in 10-20 years with BS lawsuits.

Think about it. Do you want to be in your 60's hooked up to a respirator, gasping for breath, dying from emphysema?

It's not a cool experience. Use your heads.
Most people's lungs can heal themselves if they just stop smoking.
I used to be a wake and bake all the way to toke and nod kind of smoker. Gave it up 3 years ago. Had to. Wife gave me an ultimatum.
Best thing to ever happen to..............my body.

You're a smart man, Robbie, a fellow southerner, just think about it.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

I'm all for letting people do anything they want as long as they do not come back in 10-20 years with BS lawsuits.

Think about it. Do you want to be in your 60's hooked up to a respirator, gasping for breath, dying from emphysema?

It's not a cool experience. Use your heads.
Most people's lungs can heal themselves if they just stop smoking.
I used to be a wake and bake all the way to toke and nod kind of smoker. Gave it up 3 years ago. Had to. Wife gave me an ultimatum.
Best thing to ever happen to..............my body.

You're a smart man, Robbie, a fellow southerner, just think about it.

Vaping is not smoking.