40 coffins were returned of Dutch citizens from the MH17 shoot down.

Considering the current state of affairs of NATO and the EU with regard to the Russians -- this sort of drama is predictable.

America had similar drama in the media after 9/11, albeit a territorial attack with a greater death toll. We allowed it to ignite the war in Iraq and the resulting mess. Unlike what occurred in Georgia economic sanctions are being tried first.

Ukraine has been the bread basket of the Empire of Russia, the USSR and now the Russian Federation -- winter is coming and the grain storehouses in Russia may be hurting for supply. Conversely, the natural gas supply to Europe this winter is questionable.

So, is Ukraine worth starving or freezing over?

Nationalist Bullshit -- if the USA was deprived of all the grain that came from the states of Nebraska, Kansas and Iowa we would be in deep shit. That is only a part of our grain production. Who else will export the grain you require -- China

Meantime, the surplus grain production from Ukraine can be turned in ethanol fuel in the US. This will free up oil in the US to replace embargoed Russian Petrol along with increased OPEC production.

Putin is leading the Russian Federation into a hole just like George W. Bush caused calamity at home and around the world.

China is a net grain importer

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploa...v._imports.png

Russia won't be eating bread made with sawdust but all the grain exports will be gone -- see anyone that will export to "mother russia" on this list? Maybe, Kazakhstan? They may fear Putin's rebels ...

http://www.earth-policy.org/images/u...t_exports2.PNG

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh You wont have the export revenue anymore ... So, how are you going to pay for that loaf of bread -- it's super inflation. Maybe not so bad as what preceded Hitler's Third Reich...

I know by personal account of the old Soviet Union of the 1970s and 1980s -- I lived with a Russian immigrant girlfriend for a while -- she told me how "great they had it" under Brezhnev. You don't want to repeat that ...


So, just why is Eastern Ukraine so important for Russia to control? Apart from the obvious -- territory and wealth. That is the sort of thinking that starts wars. You think that is a good idea? How many Russians died in WW2? Want to go down in flaming glory for a shit hole like Nazi Ukraine -- you really believe that shit?

WOW! Big Gourd :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

So, you think Russia will exist in comfort without export revenue and restricted imports? How far do you want to push this -- "Glorious Leader Putin" has the nuclear suitcase there.

The Eastern Ukraine territory and its wealth is worth the risk of war? You Russians have some super secret war survival plan? Better think again ... Cockroaches will rule the earth again with that sort of thinking.

This isn't some cold war pissing contest -- welcome to the 21st Century.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation, Russia is a sovereign nation -- they share an international border that is established by international agreement. So, the Russian government refuses to abide by that agreement and wants to annex lands they have alienated like Crimea. That's as valid as the Tsar's imperialistic annexation of Circassia The Russian?Circassian War started by Tsar Peter the Great. Do they teach that in history class in Russia, I assume so ... (revised obviously).

So "Tsar Putin the Great" wants to walk the people of Russia down the same path as "Saddam the Great (the new Nebuchadnezzar [or some psycho crap like that])" who tried to annex Kuwait -- lands stolen for the old Babylonian empire.

Tsarist Empire <=> Babylonian Empire = Same Shit. The only difference is that Russia does really have WMDs, that is an established fact. That leaves few options and is incredibly stupid.

Great, no one called your bluff ... Seriously, I am tired of the nationalism game. Sooner or later things like this could escalate. Most of us are little more than pawns in some chess game. You wonder why some people get whack and become preppers ...

The reports I get here are how Putin's approval ratings have had a dramatic increase since this whole Ukraine-Russia "controversy - engagement (or whatever)" indicating the poll approval of Putin's handling of this whole matter -- do you agree that is true? You are on the street is Russia, not me.

Your own opinion matters to you, but you know as well as I do that the majority of the public's attitude will shape a governments actions, right of wrong is of little consequence. The American people bought the Bush dance of a Saddam with WMDs that must be stopped. The German people in 1937 bought Hitler's Third Reich, the list goes on ...