So John Boehner is suing President Obama. Who do you think will win?

[2MuchMark]

(Come on, you KNEW I was going to start this one...!)

So John Boehner is suing President Obama. Who do you think will win?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5575824.html

WASHINGTON -- House Speaker John Boehner's (R-Ohio) lawsuit against President Barack Obama will focus on the administration's unilateral changes to the health care law's employer mandate, according to a draft resolution released on Thursday.

The resolution, which Boehner is likely to bring to the House floor this month, would authorize the House General Counsel to initiate litigation against Obama and "compel" the president to enforce the law. In a statement, the speaker said Obama had violated the Constitution last year by delaying the employer mandate under the Affordable Care Act.

Do you think Boehner is right? Or wrong? Do you think the Tan Man will win his lawsuit? Is his lawsuit justified, is it that the town crier just can't admit defeat? Are you a republican who is thrilled that ol' crybaby is standing up for you? Or are you a democrat, face permanently now in your palm, wondering why oh why oh why?

Personally, I think it'll be another embarrassing crushing defeat for him.

[CDSmith]

Is it pronounced 'Boner'?

[Amputate Your Head]

The lawyers win.
The American people lose.

Same outcome of every lawsuit in this corrupt system.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

The lawyers win.
The American people lose.

Same outcome of every lawsuit in this corrupt system.

Quoted for truth.

I read that this case will have to pass several different legal tests before it even gets before the first judge. That is plenty of billable hours for someone.

[mikesouth]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

The lawyers win.
The American people lose.

Same outcome of every lawsuit in this corrupt system.

Dead on the money

Both parties conspire to fuck the citizenry and we just bend over and take it....

[DTK]

Boehner's awesome. First, it takes him a couple weeks to actually come up with something to sue him for. Now, he's gonna sue Obama for delaying implementation of a part of a law that Boehner 1) tried to repeal 50 times, and 2) personally voted to delay.

All aboard the crazy train. Again.

[Rochard]

I think this is disgusting. The Republican party is going to sue the President for doing the same exact thing all other presidents have done. This is nothing more than a distraction to cover up the fact that Congress isn't doing it's job.

The Republican party's game plan is "defeat Obama at all costs". But the Republican party is fighting the wrong battle. They didn't seem to notice they already lost to Obama, and that they are doing more harm than good. They need to start doing their job and then focus on the next big election.

[theking]

Originally Posted by **********

(Come on, you KNEW I was going to start this one...!)

So John Boehner is suing President Obama. Who do you think will win?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5575824.html



Do you think Boehner is right? Or wrong? Do you think the Tan Man will win his lawsuit? Is his lawsuit justified, is it that the town crier just can't admit defeat? Are you a republican who is thrilled that ol' crybaby is standing up for you? Or are you a democrat, face permanently now in your palm, wondering why oh why oh why?

Personally, I think it'll be another embarrassing crushing defeat for him.

I am not a constitutional lawyer but it appears to me that he exceeded his power so I suspect that the court will ultimately rule against the President...if he is still in office by the time the case makes it to the Supreme Court.

[Robbie]

It appears that the lawsuit is specifically going after the Prez's decision to unilaterally just change the Affordable HealthCare Act by decreeing a delay in the Employer Mandate section of it.

The President did that to save the party during the midterm elections from what I can see because of what is probably going to be a pretty big disaster when that part of the law goes into full effect.

I guess we'll see if a President can really just change the Law Of The Land passed by Congress with impunity.

I personally don't think that he can legally do that. But I suppose we'll see.

As for Boehner, like him or hate him...that IS part of Congress's job. There are 3 branches of govt. for a reason. And that reason is to check each other and make it hard to pass laws. (though we have so many damn Federal laws from the last 2 centuries already that I'd be hard pressed to say that Congress has ever done it's real job)

I kinda think it's bizarre that the media laments a "do-nothing" Congress.
NOT just passing everything the President presents is exactly what they are supposed to do.

They are supposed to question it, argue about it, change it and send it back to the President.
Then he is supposed to do the same thing.

It's supposed to go back and forth until a bill either gets passed and signed. Or dies.

Not saying that the Republican House is doing that out of some noble ideal of the Founding Fathers...but the result is the same. Slowing down decrees and new laws from ever happening.

[Axeman]

Originally Posted by Robbie

It appears that the lawsuit is specifically going after the Prez's decision to unilaterally just change the Affordable HealthCare Act by decreeing a delay in the Employer Mandate section of it.

The President did that to save the party during the midterm elections from what I can see because of what is probably going to be a pretty big disaster when that part of the law goes into full effect.

I guess we'll see if a President can really just change the Law Of The Land passed by Congress with impunity.

I personally don't think that he can legally do that. But I suppose we'll see.

As for Boehner, like him or hate him...that IS part of Congress's job. There are 3 branches of govt. for a reason. And that reason is to check each other and make it hard to pass laws. (though we have so many damn Federal laws from the last 2 centuries already that I'd be hard pressed to say that Congress has ever done it's real job)

I kinda think it's bizarre that the media laments a "do-nothing" Congress.
NOT just passing everything the President presents is exactly what they are supposed to do.

They are supposed to question it, argue about it, change it and send it back to the President.
Then he is supposed to do the same thing.

It's supposed to go back and forth until a bill either gets passed and signed. Or dies.

Not saying that the Republican House is doing that out of some noble ideal of the Founding Fathers...but the result is the same. Slowing down decrees and new laws from ever happening.

Exactly right. Which is why I always favor a split between Congress and the President. No matter who is the party in the W.H. Passing shit, just to pass shit, just bloats the government and the politicians who pocket the rewards for it all.

Divided government is perfect. And I particularly like when the House and Senate are split as well.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Axeman

Exactly right. Which is why I always favor a split between Congress and the President. No matter who is the party in the W.H. Passing shit, just to pass shit, just bloats the government and the politicians who pocket the rewards for it all.

Divided government is perfect. And I particularly like when the House and Senate are split as well.

I concur and historically so have most voters.

[vegasbobby]

If he wins, that means the Health Care Act is illegal. Say bye to it. : )

[kane]

Originally Posted by vegasbobby

If he wins, that means the Health Care Act is illegal. Say bye to it. : )

Actually I think all it would mean is the order the president used to delay part of it from taking effect would be illegal so it would likely then have to take effect.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by kane

Actually I think all it would mean is the order the president used to delay part of it from taking effect would be illegal so it would likely then have to take effect.

Exactly. And all the other changes he unilaterally made to it for political reasons.

In other words...much like the "sequester" (that was the President's idea), he will have to see his "signature" piece of legislation come to full fruition as passed by both houses of Congress and signed by himself.

[DTK]

Originally Posted by vegasbobby

If he wins, that means the Health Care Act is illegal. Say bye to it. : )

Apparently you're unaware of the fact that the Congress, Senate and President all have to sign off on this 'lawsuit' before it goes to trial.

This is exactly like trying to repeal the ACA 50 times. Nothing but grandstanding to gin up the base.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by DTK

Apparently you're unaware of the fact that the Congress, Senate and President all have to sign off on this 'lawsuit' before it goes to trial.

This is exactly like trying to repeal the ACA 50 times. Nothing but grandstanding to gin up the base.

I wondered about that. Looks like that is not the case at all.

Just read this on CNN:
"In order for it to be formally considered by the courts, House Republicans must prove that the chamber was somehow injured as an institution."

That's all that Boehner has to do to get it to court. He doesn't need the Senate or the President for that action.

And it could be pretty interesting. By illegally changing laws, Pres. Obama may indeed have overreached the power of the Executive branch of govt. and violated the Constitution. And by taking Congress out of the picture when he did that illegally...he may indeed have "injured" Congress as an institution by usurping it's powers to keep him in check.

I guess we'll see what develops.

I also listened to footage on CNN of Pres. Obama doing his usual great job of trying to mend fences and reach out when he mocked Boehner and laughed about the whole thing and dared him to "sue me".

Not good leadership skills at all.

[bronco67]

So they're suing the president because of changes to a law that they tried to get rid of 50 times? Boehner is a fucking idiot, and this will backfire -- because it's already been deemed as a petty and stupid move -- and the fuse has already been lit. He has to let it play out now.

These fuckers can't do anything except keep shooting themselves in the foot. They won't be back in the white house for at least another 3 terms. Latinos see their true colors with the border situation, so that's not going to help either. Pathetic.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by bronco67

it's already been deemed as a petty and stupid move

bronco67...it's been "deemed" that by people who agree with the President on ObamaCare.
That's less than half the country.

You and I could "deem" the sky is falling...but it wouldn't make it true.

What is going to happen is this is going to be another case based on Constitutionality.
Pres. Obama is educated as a Constitutional lawyer. So he KNOWS that he is right on the edge with the things he has done.

The Supreme Court will probably have to decide this one. I hope for our country's sake in the future that the Pres. gets slapped down again.

If not...then just imagine in the future: A very right wing President starts changing laws to fit his political designs.
We won't be so happy about that now will we?

You have to separate yourselves from the players. You can hate Boehner and love Obama...but they are not the main issue.

No branch of govt. is supposed to be able to usurp the other. Just because Pres. Obama might be a "benevolent" President in your eyes...doesn't mean that a future Pres. will be a "nice guy" who does things that you like.

[onwebcam]

Dismissed "no standing" my guess.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Dismissed "no standing" my guess.

I haven't seen that it was "dismissed" anywhere. Especially on a Saturday. Where did you see that at?

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

The lawyers win.
The American people lose.

Same outcome of every lawsuit in this corrupt system.

I was just re-reading this whole thread...and I realized something: Everybody involved IS a freakin' lawyer! lol

That's one of the reasons the country is fucked. All our politicians are lawyers...

[mineistaken]

Hussein will win.

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I haven't seen that it was "dismissed" anywhere. Especially on a Saturday. Where did you see that at?

"my guess" as in it will be

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

"my guess" as in it will be

Oh okay. I thought something had already happened.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Robbie

...
And it could be pretty interesting. By illegally changing laws, Pres. Obama may indeed have overreached the power of the Executive branch of govt. and violated the Constitution. And by taking Congress out of the picture when he did that illegally...he may indeed have "injured" Congress as an institution by usurping it's powers to keep him in check....

Oh well, he is a lame duck anyway, right?

Originally Posted by bronco67

So they're suing the president because of changes to a law that they tried to get rid of 50 times? Boehner is a fucking idiot, and this will backfire -- because it's already been deemed as a petty and stupid move -- and the fuse has already been lit. He has to let it play out now.

These fuckers can't do anything except keep shooting themselves in the foot. They won't be back in the white house for at least another 3 terms. Latinos see their true colors with the border situation, so that's not going to help either. Pathetic.

Of course you feel that way.

[Axeman]

George Washington University Law Professor testifying why he firmly believes the lawsuit has merit and needs to be done. He even supports the ACA, and the changes the President made, just not the means, or the who. Perfect layout of why this is such a dangerous thing to let slide.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...struction.html

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I was just re-reading this whole thread...and I realized something: Everybody involved IS a freakin' lawyer! lol

That's one of the reasons the country is fucked. All our politicians are lawyers...

You know what would be really cool? If all or at least most politicians were Scientists instead of the "fear everything that does not actually exist" bunch that are in place now.....

[jdubs1982]

Originally Posted by Axeman

George Washington University Law Professor testifying why he firmly believes the lawsuit has merit and needs to be done. He even supports the ACA, and the changes the President made, just not the means, or the who. Perfect layout of why this is such a dangerous thing to let slide.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...struction.html

Turley is not a supporter of the ACA he's one Boehner's legal advisor on the issue, not an indepedent party. And has opposed the law since the individual mandate challenge (where he also said that that had merit and would win in the courts)

Now on issues like vs the church, being anti-gitmo he does side with liberals but if you're talking politics he's more of a libertarian than anything else.

With that said, the same day as his testomy there were a bunch others.. 2 by Democrats said it was a waste of time, 2 by Republicans said it had merits (one bing the video you posted) however the vast majority of legal journals say the suit will be laughed out of court because Boehner lacks standing to even bring the case to court and that its more a political stunt to protect to help him hold on to his speakership because Obama would literally be out of office before a case like this is ever resolved.

[Jman]

Smokes and Mirrors shit show

[DTK]

Originally Posted by Jman

Smokes and Mirrors shit show

^^^^^^This

Like I said, Boehner is suing Obama for delaying the employer mandate, and he personally voted for the delay! ANNNND he tried to repeal the ACA 40+ times. No, really, 40+ times. So he was for it before he was against it? Or is it the other way around?

There would be some hilarious questioning if he ever took the stand. I mean, the logical pretzels he'd have to twist himself into would be high comedy.

But he won't, because this isn't going anywhere. This is nothing more than election year grandstanding. But hey, it keeps the base riled up.

[kane]

Originally Posted by DTK

^^^^^^This

Like I said, Boehner is suing Obama for delaying the employer mandate, and he personally voted for the delay! ANNNND he tried to repeal the ACA 40+ times. No, really, 40+ times. So he was for it before he was against it? Or is it the other way around?

There would be some hilarious questioning if he ever took the stand. I mean, the logical pretzels he'd have to twist himself into would be high comedy.

But he won't, because this isn't going anywhere. This is nothing more than election year grandstanding. But hey, it keeps the base riled up.

The interesting thing is that by delaying the mandate Obama did what the republicans have wanted all along, but they are pissed about how he went about doing it. I would wager that had he done it the way they wanted, and put it before congress, they would have voted against it.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by kane

The interesting thing is that by delaying the mandate Obama did what the republicans have wanted all along, but they are pissed about how he went about doing it. I would wager that had he done it the way they wanted, and put it before congress, they would have voted against it.

Oh cut them some slack, they didn't even know what they wanted to sue over a few days ago. They just knew they wanted to sue him for something.. I mean this is serious stuff you know, and they are just representing those crazy people that stand out side post offices with Obama pictures and hitler stashes. Boner is just working his next campaign.. For his people.. The ones that hate Obama..

[kane]

Originally Posted by crockett

Oh cut them some slack, they didn't even know what they wanted to sue over a few days ago. They just knew they wanted to sue him for something.. I mean this is serious stuff you know, and they are just representing those crazy people that stand out side post offices with Obama pictures and hitler stashes. Boner is just working his next campaign.. For his people.. The ones that hate Obama..

It's funny that you say that. A few weeks ago I went to the post office and there was a woman standing out front with a sign that had a picture of Obama as Hitler on it. I tried to have a conversation with her, but she was clearly batshit crazy.

I didn't realize this was a nationwide trend.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Axeman

George Washington University Law Professor testifying why he firmly believes the lawsuit has merit and needs to be done. He even supports the ACA, and the changes the President made, just not the means, or the who. Perfect layout of why this is such a dangerous thing to let slide.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...struction.html

So... Only one "George Washington University Law Professor" has an issue? Isn't that a sign that few people agree with him?

[DTK]

Originally Posted by crockett

Oh cut them some slack, they didn't even know what they wanted to sue over a few days ago.

For two weeks, it was: "Q: What are you suing for? A: Uhhhh, we'll get back to you on that."

Reminds me of Romney/Ryan every time they were asked for details on how their economic plan could possibly add up: "Uhhh, ask us after the election"

[crockett]

Originally Posted by kane

It's funny that you say that. A few weeks ago I went to the post office and there was a woman standing out front with a sign that had a picture of Obama as Hitler on it. I tried to have a conversation with her, but she was clearly batshit crazy.

I didn't realize this was a nationwide trend.

Yes it's all over.. When I was living in MA they were at the local small town PO, in Dudley MA almost all the time. They had the typical Obama picture with the Hitler stash.. Real brain surgeons from the looks of them, but I never attempted to talk to them. I'm out in Denver now and had to visit the PO today and sure enough a bunch of real smart looking anti Obamaers with their little impeach Obama signs trying to collect signatures.

However this time their picture didn't have a "official" Hitler stash so these smart folks did their best artist interpretations and drew the stash with a ball point pen on their posters.

It's pretty obvious is a 501 group hiring temp workers to stand around at PO's all day. Back when our family had a temp agency, every time the elections rolled around we used to supply sign holders to various politicians for $12/hr.. Pretty much when ever you see those guys on the side of the road holding signs and waving for this political candidate or that one, it's almost certainly temp worker hired by a local,staffing agency.

I figure the post office anti Obama sign holders are much the same. Some 501 group sponsored by the Kock brothers or some other group with an agenda.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by crockett

Yes it's all over.. When I was living in MA they were at the local small town PO, in Dudley MA almost all the time. They had the typical Obama picture with the Hitler stash.. Real brain surgeons from the looks of them, but I never attempted to talk to them. I'm out in Denver now and had to visit the PO today and sure enough a bunch of real smart looking anti Obamaers with their little impeach Obama signs trying to collect signatures.

There's one bat-shit crazy lady here in Montreal too with Obama-as-Hitler posters. She really sees zero difference between the two. When I asked her how many Jews Obama killed she just yelled out keywords and talkng-point jiberish.