Rochard

I wonder if this is a huge part of the problem...

My father died when I was a babe, nine months old, and combined with a slight speech impediment they thought I might have some mental issues. I saw the school physiatrist for years in grade school. Looking back at it they paid a lot of attention to this.

Now I see kids completely fucked up. One couple I am friends with... Husband has kids from a prior marriage, wife has kids from a prior marriage, they had a baby together, married for 12 years, called it quits and now their kid is on FB - 12 years old - complaining about how messed up her life is and is trying to raise money to go see her "lesbian girlfriend" that she's never met who lives half way across the country. The kid had problems before the divorce, and now she's completely screwed up. No one is paying attention.

Toss in some fancy medications to keep the kids in line and add in some Call Of Duty and presto, we have violence just waiting to happen.

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Lichen

Two dead including shooter. Big deal.

crockett

You can't fight anymore because you get charged with assualt..

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crockett

And yet they somehow manage to get guns... Hummmmmm

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DamianJ

You know the very fucking stupid used to blame Judas Priest, then hip hop, then video nasties before they picked on video games as the route of evil.

Not surprised you buy into that bollocks.

Robbie

What's the solution Mr. Crockett?

The kid was breaking every gun control law in that county (which has some tough ones).

Guess what? He didn't give a shit about the law. Just like anybody who decides to do something that radical...laws mean NOTHING to them.

The only people affected by any law are law-abiding citizens.

Teenagers amped up on video game violence, criminals, and insane people? The laws mean nothing at all.

So what is the answer?

Round up everybody's guns? (meaning all law-abiding citizens, because crazy fucks and criminals are going to hide theirs)

Make some more "laws" that are ignored by these kinds of people?

Seriously...what can we do?

Give the govt. the power to throw people in mental hospitals? Hell, we are already 17 trillion in debt....where will that money come from? And I don't think there are enough mental hospitals for all the homeless bums I see here in Vegas at every intersection.

So what would President Crockett do?

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crockett

Double post

crockett

How about we start charging the parents for allowing the kid to get access to the guns.. Seems fair, if it was their irresponsible actions that put the guns in his hands..

Robbie the govt used to put people in mental hospitals.. It's also funny that you are crying about the debt when you support the constant lowering of taxes by the right.. I have an idea, from now on, no more tax cuts for the rich or big business until the debt is paid off and we have a surplus.. Umm who was it that managed to get the debt balanced and then who came in right after him spending like a mad man while cutting taxes.. Humm most of been the guy before Obama..

Robbie

I didn't ask you to start another personal attack on me and say that I'm "crying".

I asked for your solution to STOP this from happening.

Your "solution" is to charge the kid's parents with murder.

AND...raise taxes.

I had hoped you had a real idea. Guess not. Not surprising.

Oh, and also...the govt. does NOT throw people in mental hospitals all the time. The VERY few that get committed do so when their families go to court.
And THEN...if the families can't PAY for it...they let them back out after a short period.

I had a distant cousin in Fla. who was acting crazy. His immediate family had him "Baker Acted". He spent a whole 72 hours in a "facility". Never saw a psychiatrist. They gave him a handful of pills and patted him on the ass on the way out the door.

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crockett

So wait, you try to ridicule me by calling me President Crockett, but then cry because I say you are crying? You always seem to love the double standards that exclude yourself from ever doing anything wrong.

Besides that, I didn't say anything about raising taxes, in regard to gun control. You complained about the national debt, so I said that's fine no more TAX CUTS, until the debit is paid off. Somehow you seem to think not getting a tax cut is somehow raising taxes. Perhaps you should rethink the differences between no tax cut and raise taxes. I realize it's a tough one but I'm sure you can figure it out.

Robbie

No, you're being oversensitive.

I asked what would Pres. Crockett do?
In other words if you had the power to do something about it.

Not sure where the hell you think I was ridiculing you. I was being sincere.

Fuck it. That's what I get for trying to have an intelligent discussion with you I guess.

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crockett

I'm sure you were being completely sincere and not sarcastic at all Mr, Robbie..

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Robbie

I was being sincere. 100%.

I'm not like you. You see everything as Dem VS Republican and turn it all political.

I'd like to put every politician in both of those parties in front of a firing squad...how's that for a good use of guns? lol

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crockett

Yes ofcourse Robbie, you are always right, 100% unbiased and never do anything wrong. I'm sorry but I can not continue to go on arguing with you about how right you clearly are. Who can ever question the great Robbie.. My bad..

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Robbie

Wow...you're still insulting me. I simply asked a question of what you would do if you were the President.

Your answer was that you would put that kids parents on trial for murder.

And then you would make sure that "rich" people pay more taxes so that we could put everybody that we think is crazy in a mental hospital (boy that would open a can of worms wouldn't it?).

Now you're STILL carrying on about political "bias". I am CLEARLY telling you that I am uninterested in your political horseshit and asked a rhetorical question of you.

I think that if you stop with your attitude for one second and take a clear look...you would see that finding an answer to this is not an easy thing to do.

I asked what you would do, because I knew you had no answer that would work to stop it from happening again.
I have no answer for it either.

Here is what Pres. Robbie sees: We could enact strict gun controls. It would require getting Congress to amend the Constitution. Not an easy task.
And it would NOT stop any of this in the near future.

But at least that would be one step. And in 50 to 60 years the gun supply would slowly dwindle down to more manageable numbers.

And yeah, I know...amending the Constitution is hard to do for Congress.

But they did it with no problem at all when they changed it to allow for Federal Income Tax. lol
Giving themselves unlimited funds is never a problem for the govt.

Now for Pres. Robbie to pull this off...you're gonna need voters to vote in Representatives and Senators who have the balls to amend the Constitution and take away guns.

The Dems won't do it. Hell, Harry Reid is a card carrying NRA member.
The Republicans damn sure won't do it. They count gun owners as "their" voters.

Time for a third party...and maybe a fourth one too.

Kick those fucking Republicans and Democrats the hell out of Washington and get people in there who actually WILL get things done for the good of the country...and not just for the good of their wallets.

And again...even my extreme solution would do NOTHING in the here and now. It would just be the groundwork for stopping this 50 years from now.

I have NO solution on stopping it now.

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Mutt

The idea of holding parents criminally responsible for the actions of their children may seem crazy BUT I guarantee if it became law you'd see a whole lot more supervision and effort put into parenting once parents saw people just like themselves going off to jail for the anti-social crimes their offspring committed.

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crockett

If the irresponsible actions of a gun owner allow a crime to be committed they should be charged as an accessory to the crime. It's very straight forward and simple, because in half these shootings the kids were able to get ahold of their parents guns and would not of had the ability to have access had the gun owners been responsible.

Obviously this only works for those under 18 whom can't legally obtain a gun, but that would sure as hell do something and make these idiots take a bit more responsibility for the guns they own. No one under the age of 18 should have unsupervised access to a gun and if you give your children that access you should be held accountable for their actions taken with that gun.

However I guess having to be responsible for your gun is crazy talk..

Rochard

I do buy into this to a certain extent. Our culture over all has become a lot more violent. Playing army when I was a kid was "bang bang" where now it's Call Of Duty where you kill people by the hundreds. The movies and TV aren't any better; Growing up we had the A Team and the Dukes Of Hazard where no one ever seriously got hurt compared to life like movies today where we see thousands getting killed in a two hour sitting.

Our culture has become more violent. We've also become more sexual too, thanks in part to the Internet.

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Robbie

Okay...fair enough.

Now tell me what do you think are "irresponsible actions"?

Having a gun that isn't locked away for instance? (might be a good idea to keep them locked up..I don't...mine is loaded and close at hand in case anyone ever makes the mistake of coming into my home at night)

Not watching over a teenage boy close enough? I'm assuming that his parents work and don't spend 24 hours a day watching him...matter of fact, doesn't that sound kind of weird that a parent would do that? I'm not really sure how you could do that. When I was a teenage boy/young man, there was no way that mommy and daddy knew half the shit I did.

Does that about cover it for irresponsible actions?

"Hi Mr. and Mrs. Killers Parents. We know you are in shock and grief and your whole world is in shambles...but we're going to put the icing on the cake and arrest you on top of everything else. You were obviously irresponsible."

I don't know if I'd want to do that.

Has anyone even heard whose gun it is anyway?

I'm thinking he probably took his daddy's gun...but we won't know until we find out the facts.

Just not sure what else can be done for this sad situation.

You can't "punish" the killer...he's already dead.

I don't even know how old he is.

Maybe that whole "irresponsible parents" thing might be worth consideration IF a kid is 12 or under.
After that? Young boys are fucking hoodlums. Destructive, "invulnerable", and dangerous.

This kids parents were at work, thinking nothing was wrong. And then suddenly...EVERYTHING is wrong.

Now some young man is dead (a victim)...and the shooter (another young man himself) is dead.
Was he bullied? Who knows. But something damn sure snapped.

Now we want to put his parents in jail? Man...talk about your "slippery slopes".

If I was a kid, and heard on the news that I could KILL people and not get in trouble...but my parents (who piss me off with my teenage angst all the time) would take the rap, I'd be thinking "Hell yeah!"

Holy hell guys...that might be opening the floodgates for teenagers committing mass murder.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Mutt

Here's the solution to that problem - put the kid and the parents in the same cell. Show me a miserable teen who would dare risk being locked up 24 hours a day with his parents.

That would get appealed on constitutional grounds as being 'cruel and unusual punishment'.

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Robbie

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

TCLGirls

Hey are you somewhere in the 70's blocks?

NaughtyVisions

Holy shit, I agree with something you're saying...


The violent movies, music and games were always there. You just hear about and see them more now because of the technological advances of instant news/media. The problem isn't the music, movies and games. It all goes back to what I mentioned in an another thread. Our culture has become me first, and that includes parents putting their own wants and desires about their responsibility to raise their children properly. I was a teen in the early 90's. I listened to metal....black metal, death metal, etc., with some of the most violent lyrics you could imagine (google some lyrics for Cannibal Corpse or Pungent Stench), loved violent horror movies (I cared less for plot and more about the kills), and played violent video games (granted, they aren't as realistic as COD is today, but I remember running around blasting people in Die Hard Trilogy on PS1).

But, my parents taught me at an early age the difference between right and wrong, fantasy and reality, and respecting other people's property and rights. So while everyone in my high school was afraid of me (dressed in all black every day, black combat boots, long hair) and thought that I sacrificed goats to Satan (one girl actually asked me in the library if I "kill goats"), I was actually in advanced placement classes and in the top of my class. The only time I ever got sent to the principal's office was when my gym teacher took offense to my White Zombie t-shirt which read "I went to Hell and all I got was this crappy t-shirt." ("Hell" was the offensive word, and I had to move my hair out of the way for him to read it.)

Anyway, the point is, my parents put my brother and my upbringing before themselves, and made sure to teach us about life and respect. Which is why I was into all that shit and yet was a role model student. Parents, and society in general, today doesn't give a shit about doing any of that, and only care about their personal gratification. Parents use television as a babysitter, without discussing what's on that television with their kids. Same with games and movies. It's not the content of the entertainment that's the problem. It's always been there. It's the lack of discussion about it from parent/guardian to child that causes the problems.

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dyna mo

I hope you guys who think video games are the culprit don't have your ideas put into law. That sort of thinking is how people think rape results from pornography, so outlaw porno.''

And punishing a couple parents won't accomplish anything, look at the stats, most school shootings are from 17 & 18 year+ olds. Parenting is over by then in addition to there being no evidence punishing parents works.

Robbie

I don't think video games are "the culprit" at all.

I think that the way kids are coddled like babies when they are already in their teens is a contributor when that teen is an emotionally disturbed person.

I think that kids playing violent video games but never owning or responsibly using a REAL gun to know the difference contributes to it when the kid is emotionally disturbed.

Matter of fact there are lots of things that contribute and each case is unique.

I only brought up vid games that you slaughter and shoot people because that, along with violent movies, is the only thing that these kids ever see.

So if a person is prone to emotional disorder and lives in his own fantasy world...he's not able to discern fantasy from reality.

Hell no, video games shouldn't be banned. I'm never for banning something that the vast majority enjoy with no problems just because of a tiny fraction of a percent of people whom are nuts.

In my opinion there is NO simple answer to this.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

TurboAngel

The world has turned crazy.

WDF

With all the public displays of this behavior in the media why is it they do not broadcast the execution of condemned convicted criminals live.

Maybe a mandatory civics class for 9th or 10th grade students with closed circuit feeds of the executions and discussion of it.

Before anyone criticizes me, Merv Griffin (a TV talk show host, producer, and Marlo Thomas' husband, yes the St. Judes Woman) proposed this decades ago. He even offered to provide funding and production of it if I remember correctly.

I think most of us are aware of the amount of monitoring the Gov't does on the public. Does anyone think they do not see some of these indicative tweets, Facebook posts, YouTube videos, etc. of violent actions brewing?

You have to wonder if the events we see are those that fell through the cracks, an analysts misjudgement, or allowed to happen to provide a deflection from other issues or to push a particular agenda.

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Robbie

Well, I just heard on CBS news that the shooter was 15 years old.

AND he DID take his parents guns.

But, CBS News said that the guns were locked up properly for safety. He just figured out where the key was I guess.

So would we still arrest the parents for being "irresponsible"?

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

WarChild

Interestingly enough, New Zealand is probably the safest country in the World to live in. They have the lowest rates of violent crime globally. Why is that interesting? Because they share a similar culture to North America. They speak the same language, they play the same video games, watch the same movies, and listen to the same music.

The rates of intentional murder, just by way of example are about 4.8 per 100,000 in the USA versus .9 per 100,000 in New Zealand.

Something is clearly playing a much larger role than entertainment.

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Rochard

Turns out the AK47 used belonged "to the family" and that the kid had "defeated security measures" to get to it - which most likely means it was locked up in a safe / cabinet and the kid knew where the key was or the combination.

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Rochard

Most likely it's a combination of ease of access... Firearms are very common here. Ease of access, the medications we give kids, the lack of mental health services, combined with the video games and movies.... bingo.

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2MuchMark

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AmeliaG

One teenage boy killed another teenage boy: https://twitter.com/emilio_hoffman

One murder is sad, but it is NOT national news, it is NOT a mass killing, and it is NOT something we need a whole bunch of new laws to address.

This is apparently not the first school shooting in Oregon. The last one was in 1998.

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