Joe, even if your "symbolic" flagburning gif is just a mere metaphore for your protest of the American position on Iraq, why choose it as such?

You're a fairly intelligent person. You know that we Americans value the symbolic representation that our flag signifies. Correct? You know that it's more than just a piece of cloth to us. We were raised to value what it stands for. To respect it's meaning (not just the flag as an object, but what it means to this nation). With that being said, you have just exposed yourself as a hipocrite.

In many other threads, you have stated over and over again that one flaw you couldn't stand about americans is our lack of respect and understanding of people from other nations. Yet, knowing what you know about our loyalty and compassion for what our flag means to us, you have chosen to use it like our enemies in your symbolic protest by showing it aflame. So where's the respect and understanding for OUR people? If it's our policies you have a problem with, show a gif of our president on fire or something, not our fuckin flag. Our flag stands for something far deeper than you obviously understand about our culture. It's called PRIDE.

Alright, for the moment I've taken it down.

I've made my point.

I've also learnt a huge amount about Americans and specifically certain people on this board from having it up.

oh cry me a fucking river, this is a free world right?

Wrong. In many places in this world, freedom is not an option.

Well you're a bigger man than I thought.

:glugglug

For my views on this board I've been photoshopped being fucked by Saddam, sucking Manny's cock, threatened with death, beatings, abused and had people mock and ridicule the death of my spouse. These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. Every single one of these people were Americans.

This is the end result of your extreme, nasty, arrogant version of nationalism. All for doing something your own First Amendment guarantees your own citizens. This isn't freedom, it's a mockery of freedom.

You say it's all about pride, you even capitalised the whole word. Shouldn't it be all about humility?

what does your flag stand for? what does it reason? I'm quite curious to see what your history books have taught.

Your definition not mine. Israel is reactive.

Educate me please??

I don't. I do understand that a short war will take fewer Iraqi lives in the long run then to allow Saddam and/or his party to remain in power for whatever indefinite period of time. In addition if we suceed in establishing a democratic republic their future lives will be greatly improved.

We have supported some that we should not have, for longer periods than we should have. Mistakes have been made, but usually because of the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". This happened frequently during the "cold war", this has also happened with the war on drugs etc. We have not had perfect leaders that have always made perfect decisions, and never will.

We never supported the Taliban for the sake of the Taliban. Itr was part of our "war on drugs".

Hypocrisy is alive and well. You are living proof troll.

I am a "super patriot" and I do have "Nationalist" leanings. Quite proud of my country and its accomplishments in just a little over 200 years.

Save the pity for yourself troll.

-= Webmasters fighting on webmaster boards is just like the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarted. =-

"retarted" when spelt correctly, actually looks like this: "retarded"

Quite frankly, I'm suprised you're not in touch with the word on a personal level.

You're just another lost soul who thinks whatever your President mumbles across the airwaves, is good enough.

agreed, freedom is forced though, but only the version of freedom the governing bodies want citizens to have. North america is NOT free. You publicaly show your disaproval for anything, especialy a war, and your arested, nice freedom. In both Canada and the united states and Australia for that matter their history has been nothing less than bloody. Since settling on these 3 parcels of land there has been nothing but, rape, pillaging, theft, murdering for land rights, telling the aborigionals they don't own the land anymore, forcing them out withought a voice. All because these newbs to the land wanted "freedome" Aborigionals stood up and protested, faught, stood ground , and got gunned down, raped, torn to pieces... oh yes, I'm proud I have such freedom.... freedom of sitting right now on land that thousands of human beings had to die for so I can have this "freedom". Don;t go throwing that freedom around too much, because you never know when teh next "Settlers" come for "OUR" land and take it away so they may have "freedom" too.

All this my country vs your country bullshit on this baord is fuckign rediculous and un called for. From ANY side. Everyone has a right to their opinion under FREEDOM of speech, well if anyone from these countries wants to go on cock fighting about freedom, start from shutting your own fuckign mouths and respecting what people have pride in and what they felt FREE to express. As silly as a flag may be, it obviously means something to people so maybe respecting those freedoms of feelings too!

All everyone is doing is cock fighting just like everyoen in our history books have done for hundreds of years. All to prove stupid arrogant points and where has it landed us? in 2 world wars, rebelions, stupid civil wars, and now a possible third world war because so many people from our free countries can't keep their mouths shut and respect other country's freedoms as well as going out dictating what freedom should mean.

Jesus guys. all 3 of our countries have had bloody histories and have overcomed them and are all respected countries in this world, enough is fuckign enough. SHUT TEH FUCK UP AND MIND YORU OWN POLITICAL AND PATRIOTIC ideals to yourself unless you are prepared to be snafoozled on here. Imagine if every citizen carried on liek this, this planet would be nothing but embers. FUck sakes, joe, have respect for the fellow americans who have pride in their flag, go burn Bush or express your feelings about foreign policies in a more diplomatic and appropriate way. As for those who have theratened, attacked on baord and have retaliated, you have just made his points more solid, and to be truthfull, you were all being retarted.



Flame away, but rmeember, I don't care what you say. because yoru just one person in 8941782749823740973 million.

see? theres another problem with you anti this and anti that people. You automaticaly assume I have a fuckign president, and if you knew any better you would know that retarted can be spelled both ways

You sounded American, how close is your home from the border?

it doesnt matter, I have my own opinions and they arent necesarily the same of my alcoholic leaders. and how did I sound american? seriously, by saying "cry me a river" ?

uh-uh-uh,
being Serge's bitch is a bitch, ain't it?

;-))))))

Serge, you are not an American - you are a Russian.

And why the comments about his deceased wife? Not exactly mature, not something that would be accepted in an offline adult conversation? Its not like you will gain any respect by making these comments.

Joe I couldnt agree with you more. theking (aka thefascist) has also ridiculed the fact that my 7 month old was killed in an auto accident. These pricks represent a small minority of how Americans really are and the reality is their beliefs go against the true America. They have no problem with censorship, government spying on its own people, and the thrashing of the constitution unless it involves the 2nd amendment. They are the REAL threat to America and are the reason people like you have the attitude they have towards Americans. These people will do whatever it takes to push their 'moral' agenda including lie, cheat, and fix elections. People are starting to realize what is going on and their power will be short lived, hopefully before any real damage is done to this country and the world.

1) I am American, I am more american than MOST Americans here,
who just were born in USA,
something which they can't help it.
I've CHOSEN my country,
BIG difference

2) I am not looking for respect,
USA is not looking for respect of iraqies,
we just do what gotta be done, that's all.

Joe6sux started psychological warfare,
I beat him to the pulp,
I always do that,
and I don't give a flying fuck what it takes to do it.

Learn from the master
;-)

You are a fucking liar. You have repeated this lie multiple times. Show the fucking thread where I have ever said anything about your kid.

theking,
this is how those fucking bleed heart liberals operate:
"Repeat the lie over and over again 'til people believe it"

what else is new under the sun?

My political stance is that of a moderate, with liberal leanings, but when it comes to my country being attacked verbally, physically, or virtually any other way I am a hardcore conservative. I am a hardcore conservative when it comes to the military as I favor maintaining a large military (I have been opposed to the cuts in force that have been made since 1991) and military R&D. I also am in favor of reinstituting the draft for multiple reasons.

Joe I share your cynicism regarding W's crusade against Iraq. But instead of arguing against the war in a constructive and rational way, you chose to symbolically burn the US flag. With your expert knowledge of US culture you would've known in advance that this would insult a great many Americans. It seems to me that this act has has reinforced the views of the right-wingers and alienated many of the Americans who might otherwise have supported you. So what was the point in that? Did you honestly think anything constructive would come from it, or were you just trying to start another Joe Sixpack VS USA flame war? If it's the latter, congratulations you were extremely successful :thumbsup But if it's the former you might want to reassess your strategy :2 cents:

we are close

Groove, fuck joe,
I'd like to hear you and why are you against the war with Iraq.

to help you with your reasoning, here is the latest.

Inspectors found cluster bomb in Iraq which can be filled with bio and chemical weapons

I'm against war under any circumstances except as a last resort and much as I despise Saddam Hussein and everything he stands for, I don't believe all non-military alternatives have been exhausted yet.

I also oppose the US unilaterally (ie without UN support) attacking a sovereign state that isn't a clear and present danger to the US. I think that this will set a VERY dangerous precedent and is likely to upset the balance of power between countries around the world. Basically the US is rolling the dice and the whole World will have to live with the consequences.

Furthermore, I think that if the US was serious about addressing the REAL danger posed by rogue nations they'd be focusing on North Korea. Those lunatics have nukes, they have missiles and only last week they threatened to nuke NY! But hey, Korea doesn't have any oil and they do have the capacity to inflict massive US casualties. So it's probably best not to pursue a military solution with the North Koreans.

That in a nut-shell is the basis of my cynicism. But I certainly don't have any sympathy for Saddam and his supporters, I look forward to their downfall!

Groove,
I understand your position and only wish others were able to express themselves logically and eloquently as you.

I agree about the "balance of power" issue.

I disagree on North Korea,
they WILL be dealt with,
one country at a time.

As for NK's promise to inflict pain...
I believe it's a wishful thinking.
Quite often playing poker I bluffed my way out,
and this si exactly what they do now,
IMO

Thanks for the compliment :)

*nodnod* For better or worse, the USA is currently the World's only superpower and whatever precedents it sets, other nations are likely to follow. And only Allah knows what will happen to the complicated balance of power between the Middle Eastern States!

You're probably right. But my point is, why Saddam now? What's the urgency? Why not let the inspections run their course? I think it's more about the US wanting to secure a reliable oil supply and have a platform to do some nation-building in the Middle East.

I definitely think it is posturing at the moment. But my point is that North Korea COULD nuke NY if they wanted to, wherease Iraq could not. You tell me which country is the real threat?

I don't say I'm fully against the war but what solution does the US have for after the war?
Nothing so far.
Only speculations.
Who knows who gets in power there or maybe a big civil war will start that can take years.

I love "who knows" argument...
there is only ONE thing in life which is 100% certain and goes according to plan...

we ALL gonna die,
everything else has variables nobody can fully forsee.

Oh... and while I'm on the topic of cynicism...

Why is it that the the two countries who sold Saddam most of his arms, namely the UK and USA, are the countries most keen to dissarm him in the name of World peace?

And why is that two of Iraq's largest trading partners, namely Russia and France, are two of the most vocal opponants of war in the name of World peace?

You're probably right. But my point is, why Saddam now? What's the urgency? Why not let the inspections run their course? I think it's more about the US wanting to secure a reliable oil supply and have a platform to do some nation-building in the Middle East.
********************************************

US has reliable oil supplies...
USA itself,
Mexico,
UK,
it's not all about oil this time,
it's about the FUTURE and setting precedent:
you fuck with the bull...

NONE of it be happening now if it wasn't for Sept 11th,
kicking sleeping tiger in the nut is NEVER a good idea

well,
USA made a mistake ...time to correct it.

Even the CIA does not think Iraq was involved in 9/11! Whereas right-wing think tanks have been advocating another war against Iraq to secure reliable oil supplies for several years now (ie way before 9/11). Without Middle East oil the US would be screwed and Saudi Arabia is not an ally that the US likes being dependant on. Hell, where do you think most of the people behind 9/11 were from? They were Saudis!

following your logic,
we would be much better off attacking Saudis, but we do not..
why?

Even the CIA does not think Iraq was involved in 9/11!
**********************************************

I am not privy to REAL
CIA reports,
do you?

The US currently needs the Saudis. If the US can secure reliable supplies from Iraq they will no longer be needed.

why do we need saudies?

they are not armed as good as Saddam,
we could have occupy Saudies much faster than we can Iraq, Saudies are easier military target and more profitable, if we follow your logic...

and still we don't.

WHY?

if it was all about oil,
pronouncing Mexico 51st state would be cheaper than war in Iraq...

if referendum was hold tomorrow in Mexico,
they would join the Union in a heart beat

I do know that Donald Rumsfeld instructed the CIA to find evidence that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and they were unable to do so (or at least that is what the CIA Director has said).

I also know that if the USA were able to produce convincing evidence of Saddams involvement in 9/11 all of this debate about the US's right to invade Iraq would be null and void. The US would have been attacked and would be free to declare war under international law.

Serge, I seriously doubt that you'd find anyone in George W's administration who would dispute the need for a reliable oil supply from the Middle East. They'd simply argue that oil is not the motivation for their attack on Iraq. As for Mexico, the US already has reliable access to Mexican oil, they don't need to own it. I'm not talking about the US owning the Middle Eastern oil either, I'm simply saying that they want reliable access to the oil for a favorable price.